#bringbackweapondurability
also #removepairup #secondsealsarethedevil #wakeupsheeple
Fire Emblem Fates' localization doesn't have the petting minigame
- Thread starter kulapik
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also #removepairup #secondsealsarethedevil #wakeupsheeple
I don't think it's fair to say that Awakening's popularity vs the older games is entirely down to such content, that's a bit of a simplification.
Awakening also had:
An optional no-permadeath mode to avoid losing characters
A much bigger promotional campaign
Ability to grind on free battles and DLC maps to avoid getting stuck
A 'my unit' as a viewpoint character
All of this was designed to help make it accessible to new players, and in some cases to address often-given reasons why some players had avoided it in the past. Putting increased sales down to stuff like silly lingerie-clad teenage dragon girls as a figurehead, summing up the problems some fans of the older fans have with it as something hard to argue against is understandable, but it completely ignores loads of other stuff that was deliberately added to increase Fire Emblem's general appeal and chance of survival.
Personally I thought stuff like the optional no-permadeath and optional free battles were a cool idea, allowing people new to strategy games to try out the series without worrying about playing it in effectively Xcom Iron Man mode for their first time out!
Elaugaufein
Member
Half of that applied to Heroes of Light & Shadow and they didn't even think it was worth bringing over.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Here's how I respond to this. During the creative process, particularly for commercial products, you have to ask questions like this: Who is the intended audience of this product? Who are we trying to appeal to? And when answering these questions, your answer can't reasonably be that you're going to try to appeal to everyone with a bunch of discordant content. Even if such content is optional, it still says something about the overall product.
When I see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHRjnTVQ_Ug
My reaction is "I do not want this." Mind you, I get it. There are people out there saying "yeah, I do want this." And it's ultimately not my call. Awakenings started down a path and Fates is continuing it. If they continue down this path, I may have to ultimately conclude "I'm not the target audience for this product." And that's fine. I just won't buy it. I'm not going to start a change.org petition to get it removed from the game. It's not my place to be the final arbiter of deciding what content does and doesn't get included in a game.
But if my feedback is being solicited? Yeah, I'm going to vote in favor of cutting it. Nothing personal is being directed at those in favor of it. It's just that my personal preference is that the overall product is better off without it. I guess that can be regarded as selfish. But I think that addressing the desires and concerns of a diverse audience is always going to be a part of the process. Like I said, you can't please everyone.
If people are bummed out about the change I don't take personal delight. This isn't a schadenfreude situation where I'm going to sit here and declare "haha! Take that you weirdos! You sickos can get your jollies elsewhere." But to me? This is a change for the better.
You were expecting something else?
It's a defense map, and they decided to tank one side with a low level troubadour.
It didn't end up going well.
That game didn't have half the effort put behind Awakening to make it more accessible as a jumping on point for new players. Even if it had come over, it wouldn't have had the same marketing campaign and cross-promotion, that was all a new global concerted push from Nintendo. My point is that all that stuff gets ignored in the rush to claim that Fire Emblem's newfound increased popularity is down to Nowi/innuendo etc.
Shame it didn't come over, I'd love to play it.
Elaugaufein
Member
You realize they've completely toned down how second seals work in Fates right ? They don't reset your level anymore. There's a new different seal which is for stat grinding (and its much more limited). I thought it was a pretty decent fix for the problem second seals had relative to the main game (which largely revolved around extracting an extra 10 levels around mid game) while still letting people do grinding for DLC content (and to reduce the disadvantage Nohr would other get in competitive street pass due to limited XP).
Elaugaufein
Member
There is a fan translation available, I've only played the first couple of battles before getting distracted by other stuff but it seemed pretty solid so if you'd really like to give it a shot , that might be worth looking at.
DecoReturns
Member
I wonder how'll they would do with Radient Dawn? Lol
I appeticate Awakening even more now.
SolidSnakex
Member
I'm not saying that it's down purely to that type of content, there are obviously other factors as well. What i'm saying is that if the western branches of Nintendo approached NoJ about removing the content from the initial release so that all versions of the game were the same, I don't think they'd do it. Not just because I don't think they give a fuck about what the western branches think, but because I don't think they're going to risk the series popularity by removing the content because some people in western countries may not like it. How much that content has helped may be open to debate, but I don't think NoJ would be willing to remove it just because some in western countries may not like the content.
The thing is I don't want to be able to change classes at all unless it's for promotion. The only grinding that should be allowed are arenas where there's risk/reward involved. Grinding is also why they removed campaign rankings which I thought was one of the best features of the series. Now it's turned into a joke SRPG like so many of them.
I only skimmed the video for names, but they tried to tank with Elise? She's can tank like wet paper. My 20/20 Elise has under 30 HP lmao (Though she capped her mag so she heals/hits like a truck at least lol)
Interesting, thanks!
NeonZ
Member
I don't think people specifically claim that it's due to Nowi or innuendo, it's rather the other way around. People who want to dismiss elements like Awakening's support system, marriage and children lump it all as "Otaku bait", placing those on the same level as Nowi (who is less popular than Tiki but is much more likely to pop up in these discussions) or the one-piece leotards worn by some female mounted classes.
Because apparently romance and shipping don't exist outside of otaku fetishes somehow.
Crash Station
Member
I understand that as a business mindset, but I think these discussions should be had on a personal level. As Aaron Lagann said, I don't see how optional content that one never has to even click on can be offensive on an individual level without said person being a literal child that does see this as a sort of Schadenfreude situation, which there definitely are as made apparent by all the "here for the meltdowns" people.
Can optional content bring down an overall product even on an individual level? Sure, but it gets to a point where you have to say "come on" in terms of what does and doesn't constitute "objectionable content". They're not partnering with Mangagamer and bundling FE Fates with a physical copy of Euphoria. They're giving us something goofy that requires a ton of time investment for anything even remotely pandery. Even if someone that has no interest in the mode clicks on it by accident, they're not going to see Shara's S rank petting conversation. They're going to see a guy or girl looking at you in the face with a smile. It's like a step or two above Awakening's matchmaking on the "creep" level.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I don't think Andre had even played Fire Emblem before had he? Derrick's their FE guy, but he's out on the east coast I think?
theSlacker
Member
I'm in a similar situation where I didn't really like the path that Awakening went and where the series is going, and these things don't really appeal to me. However I feel there is a difference between giving feedback and hoping they take the next game in a different direction and giving feedback and hoping they cut out optional things from a completed game in the localization stage even if I'm not interested in those things. I have gotten very use to series moving past me as the intended audience at this point though.
Fair enough, I see what you mean.
As an aside, I do think that the pair-up mechanics in Awakening were overpowered, but without them we wouldn't have seen what seems like a much more interesting take (and less obvious a choice) on it in Fates. While the debate about the relationship stuff rages on, I'm more interested to see how mechanics like that, the no-weapon-durability, the dragon-vein powers etc work, not to mention excited about having three FE campaigns to tide me over.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Ah this post! I was trying to remember that post, because when I saw the bogus Italy rumor, this post was the first thing I thought of, because I felt really bad for this guy and his struggle for any semblance of representation.
To be upfront, I have no problem with the existence of a petting minigame, even though stuff like that is generally off-putting to me. I just don't think it's primarily the same issue, but as this post illustrates, it can have similar unintentional effects, which is very unfortunate.
But I feel like this just speaks to the terrible standard of representation for the LGBT community in gaming.
Elaugaufein
Member
For weapon durability rather than punishing more powerful weapons with lower durability, they tried to make the weapons more trade off based. Which I like really, iron being less durable than bronze was weird.
The dragon-vein powers seem to effectively be "plot" effects, the kind of thing that could have been done with triggers, since they are restricted to pre-designated areas on maps.
I am a little confused with what they did with the 3 games. Difficulty is Hoshido -> Revelations -> Nohr , but Revelations is definitely the one you'd "master" since you can finish it with all but 3 characters.
Skyfireblaze
Member
I personally couldn't care less about the removal but I can see both sides of the argument, the thing is, and sorry if it was mentioned before, why can't the petting minigame be free DLC? o.o
The 3DS has online capabilities and the game already has a DLC system in place, why not cut the minigame out for the west and offer it as free, optional DLC? That way people who want it can download it and people who are offended by it will never see it, wouldn't that be a solution that pleases both sides?
The 3DS has online capabilities and the game already has a DLC system in place, why not cut the minigame out for the west and offer it as free, optional DLC? That way people who want it can download it and people who are offended by it will never see it, wouldn't that be a solution that pleases both sides?
I believe that has been mentioned. And yea, that would work as a solution, generally speaking. Some have brought up the idea that the reason this was cut was for budget reasons why; mainly that they didn't want to spend the money to va the segments within. That may also influence it's inclusion/potential of even being dlc. Whether that's true or not is really up in the air. It's just a theory. A theory on a game.
@Spoiler: The monster.
If what people are saying about the minigame in that it was poorly received by players in Japan, perhaps it was just a really bad idea all around that could have used a lot more insight into it beyond following perceived trends in Japan. They already have the elements that helped to bring new audiences into the franchise without it.
I dunno, this whole thing feels like it was a no-win situation for everyone from its inception.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Wrong.
Skyfireblaze
Member
Hmm in that case they could have simply have it silenced but yeah if that was indeed a reason I can see why removing it was the option they went with even if this was not necessarily easier.
Crash Station
Member
Yes, and I responded to it. We aren't talking about the drugging situation anymore. I acknowledged I was wrong about that.
Doesn't mean I can't be sympathetic to the person that has done far more for LGBT visibility within Nintendo than anyone else in this thread.
Thanks for that, much appreciated, you've answered pretty much everything I've been wondering about FE in your last couple of posts! I don't suppose you have the EU release date up your sleeve too ;-)
SenorArdilla
Member
Ridley is a running joke at this point. He is essentially Tantalus.
Some people feel that there is some underlying motivation to legitimize their hobby in the eyes of others.
I should have had the qualifier 'some' in that sentence, that was my mistake. There were a few from the last few pages already.
In this case I feel there's a bit more leeway in terms of how offensive/inoffensive it is. In the case of Soleli, it's entirely understandable. Her whole character is a hot mess and poorly utilizes tropes that are quite offensive. This here I can sympathize with both sets of voices on some level. It's mostly a stupid little thing. Seems more harmless than some other stuff out there. It's very....well, weirdly done and feels like it presents a disconnected way of how human interaction works but it's not offensive like some other garbage would be. I don't like it when companies start to go further and further down a road of sexist pandering but that's not exactly what this mode was doing as far as I'm aware.
I wouldn't use it but don't really care if it's in, more or less. And I take that stance largely because of it being an optional thing. I it were required of me, I would be altered in my view somewhat.
I also can also see why some react the way they do in as much as they like having the content. I can't agree with the extremes some of them have taken, such as a certain stalker of mine, who accuse everyone of censorship/agendas at the drop of a hat. I also don't think this exactly falls into the worst type of pandering possible as others have also argued. It's a bit more tame than some other games that are a hot mess.
That said, the fact that Japanese and American audiences have pushed back on this probably means that it won't be in any future FE titles. Whether that's a positive or negative overall is up to interpretation really.
I can see how this could work in theory but it's not likely. Whoever has the money is going to speak. And there's frankly plenty of other games out there that will probably satisfy the people who really really want this mode. Is it a loss of something they may have been interested, yes. If you want to experience it yourself there's always the potential of DLC or you could just import the game. But it's not like this game isn't the only option for this kind of content either. It just didn't really take to a warm reception in FE, it would seem.
There was already that one person who was glad they would no longer feel embarrassed playing the game next to someone.
Agreed, more or less.
Okay, I didn't see your response. Sorry. Where was that?
No, it doesn't. And we already went over this so it's just going to be re-hashing it at this point. I wanted to see if you had responded to their post, more or less.
No, I know.
But your theory isn't exactly true and just further makes it into a "us vs. them" situation. It's not conducive to the discussion.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
That's hilarious because this small minigame being censored out should not suddenly make him feel comfortable playing the game next to someone...
This was very heavyhanded of NOA and that's the reality of the situation. The game got a 15 rating in Japan and was castrated for a 13 one in NA from a rating system that is harsher on the content this series usually pushes and doesn't even have a 15 rating.
FE is not for kids.
What is the discussion? I must've missed the memo.
There's no option to turn it on? Completely gone? I... I don't know how to feel about this.
The intricacies of Duchamp-style readymade art.
That's the change that's off-putting to me, frankly. Making the game less and less strategic just feels wrong.
Honestly, it's a great change for the series, weapons are much more varied as a result.
The weapons are rebalanced to accommodate the change, I don't think the ability to choose would be a viable possibility.
Triforce141
Member
Well, considering that IS rebalanced it by having buffs/nerfs depending on what weapon you use (Bronze can't crit, using Brave weapons increase damage taken), and forging weapons is no longer the simple "pay them" like in Awakening, I find it useful and better imo.
Yes, but there's no more resource management which is a net negative in my opinion.
Crash Station
Member
My mistake, I responded to your post, but I did see her's and thought my response to you said enough on my view. I now understand where the people are coming from who call it gay conversion, though I still think it's reaching a bit but won't say my interpretation is 100% correct.
When did we go over it? The most that has been said against it is the intent of the mini-game may not have been to accommodate LGBT people, but by that logic the intent wasn't to accommodate straight people either. The intent was to play around with the Live2d stuff that IS was experimenting with.
The removal of content for the purpose of not offending is still my biggest issue with this, but I maintain that Tyeforce's explanation adds another layer to it as does Ixix's analysis of that explanation.
Firemind sums up my view on it.
And frankly I preferred the way the weapons worked before. Changing how they intrinsically work just feels like they're taking out strategy elements.
It was a resource management that alot of people bungled. It's also not the first time this has happened in the series before (FE4's repairable weapons).
I did forget about Gaiden this time. Sorry, L95
We went over how it feels like a use of LGBT people rather than a support for them and I didn't want to go down that road again.
That said, I can see the argument Tyeforce makes and how it could be an unintentional effect as well.
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