The New Hampshire Primary |Feb 9|: Live Free or Die

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Ya'll talking about Bernie and Trump when the real story here is the fight for third on the red side of the ticket.

I knew people were too quick to prop up Rubio before he'd gone through a media cycle of having the spot light on him. Christie sabotaged him at the debate like he was a bridge into New York City. It hasn't helped Chris much, but it sure as shit splatted any momentum Rubio had.

Clinton vs Sanders is a nail biter as while I like both candidates a lot, it's a two horse race and I have a favorite there. The republican race... it's a popcorn worthy clusterfuck... and I wouldn't have it any other way.

They've had more than 3 years to figure out a direction after their usual 'appeal to the white male voter' tactics completely failed them in 2012. That was the wake up call, and they heard it... but for some reason have been hitting snooze on it. Repeatedly. I'm not sure if they can withstand this primary race without serious long term damage to their brand. Obviously I'm hoping they can't... but we shall see.

And if Rubio takes a knife to the gut today... well I'm just going to laugh at this point. People are often asked in polls about a generic representative of their party, and that generic representative usually polls better than any individual. Not always, but usually. People project the generic template onto anyone they don't know. That was Rubio a week ago.

Not any more.

This primary season is going to be gooooood.
 
I'm on a night shift, driving around the original Hampshire over in the UK, listening to this on the radio - I'm actually a bit scared.

Is Trump actually mentally ill? I feel more and more and more like I'm listening to someone have a breakdown. It's also terrifying to hear all the 'USA! USA! USA!' nutcases chanting like that while he just spouts random weird shit. I'm actually scared he might win in November. He's a joke yes, but you never know.

I feel like if he wins, we're all dead!
 
The Lamonster said:
It's frustrating, isn't it.
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Ten years ago you would have been laughed out of the room if you said that Michigan, a Midwestern Labor stronghold, would be a Right to Work state.

Two years ago, Governor Snyder and the legislature passed it with ease due to the radicals in their party threatening to primary every single candidate who didn't support it.

Always positioning yourself in the middle allows the other side to define you.
 
shoplifter said:
As an Ohioan, I really think he's a genuinely good person with policies I don't personally agree with.
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Yeah just read up on his policies, pretty typical Republican policies, so my hopes for a sane Republican candidate are dashed :(

Still seems like a nice guy though
 
Haha, the photo that Fox decided to post of Kasich...

Ca0n9_rWwAIWA5_.jpg
 
Merc_ said:
Dude, you tried to shit on him over something Bernie supported himself while talking up Sanders at the same time. This is silly.
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I never mentioned Sanders in my original post. So, criticizing Bill's failures is automatically talking up Sanders?

I can write pages on how much I hated Reagan growing up.
 
Merc_ said:
Are we talking about the same bill Bernie supported?
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I'll re-post this since people like to pretend that Bernie flip flopped on the crime bill when his vote reflected years of harsh criticism of the bill but ultimately was decided by its inclusion of VAWA and the assault weapons ban.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194263559&postcount=150

QuiteWhittle said:
Do you have any links where he personally explains his vote?

I tried searching for some explanation but I couldn't find one.
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Arkeband said:
Here's a speech he made prior to the bill passing denouncing and forecasting the effects of parts of the bill he disagreed with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTn3jUoMdVI

Here's another one even earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJ7f-3XGB4

Here's Bernie arguing for VAWA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuenGIA3YwI
Take note at 1:08: "Mr. Speaker, I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill"

I tried to find a clip of him discussing this recently, but I distinctly remember him discussing it with Rachel Maddow or in some other news program earlier in his campaign to "clear the air", so to speak.
Click to expand...
 
NYCmetsfan said:
I want to hop in on this. Minorities support for clinton represents an experience most clinton supporters have gone through (not trying to say all these groups have it as bad as minorities) they've lost.

Clintons supporters are older and remember a pre-00s era where cultural liberalism wasn't ascendant. They know the insidious of the rights attacks on the disprivleged and powerless and know how much has been gained and lost.

MInorities can't just hope for a better world, the know racism will be here tomorrow and they're likely to continue being disadvantaged for years and decades to come. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism, its progress.

Unions at least insitutionally support clinton because they've been beaten back by right to work laws and attacks on workers. They have gone from representing 25% of workers to 10%. They know progessive issues aren't unidirectional they can and have been undone. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Womens groups support hillary because they've seen GOP dismissive at the the everlasting presence of sexism and attacks that have crippled a women's right to her body in the south and midwest. They know abortion and womens issues isn't some oneway street. Preserving hard won victories isn't defeatism its progress.

Young voters by and large don't realize this because they've won most fights they've been in and their peers share their values (this is amplified by cultural segregation both online and off). They've won gay marriage, a black president and the acceptance of identity politics They had the bush years but by and large most of sanders supporters were not that adversely effected by them. They've not lost something they've won.

This is amplified by white voters and white young voters. Who even when they lose don't really lose. Who doubts that by and large most of the white students in Iowa's and NH's universities are going to be relatively fine? They might have large loans and living with their parents but they have their parents to support them in both cases. It might be a case of arrested development but its not existential. Meanwhile black and other minorities face existential problems daily. From police brutality to economic disparities these problems are very life and death.

This doesn't summarize the entire race and I don't mean to lambast bernie supporters as idiots or people oblivious to other things but their desire to brush aside realism complains reflects by and large the fact they can afford to, the clinton coalition can't
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I would note that Unions have chosen the strategy to back the centrist candidate for a very long time now, and now they're almost extinct. At best they slowed their demise, though I honestly think they quickened it thanks to that. You crowd out the people that support you and you're eventually left with no one to actually defend you.

Many of the policies that the black lives matter movement are rallying against came into being during the height of third way politics during the 90s. I don't see how that was helpful at all compared to an actually liberal democratic party blocking a conservative president/congress. The only way it possibly helped is by giving Bush enough power through liberal votes like the Iraq vote, that people finally saw how bad his policies were and allowed Obama was able to become one of the most liberal presidents since FDR, though I don't know how much of a victory that actually is, given how much damage we sustained to get there.

I understand the argument for centrist pragmatism, but I really don't see where it's been especially helpful when looking at actual results of third way strategies.
 
Arkeband said:
I'll re-post this since people like to pretend that Bernie flip flopped on the crime bill when his vote reflected years of harsh criticism of the bill but ultimately was decided by its inclusion of VAWA and the assault weapons ban.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194263559&postcount=150



Here's a speech he made prior to the bill passing denouncing and forecasting the effects of parts of the bill he disagreed with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTn3jUoMdVI

Here's another one even earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJ7f-3XGB4

Here's Bernie arguing for VAWA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuenGIA3YwI
Take note at 1:08: "Mr. Speaker, I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill"

I tried to find a clip of him discussing this recently, but I distinctly remember him discussing it with Rachel Maddow or in some other news program earlier in his campaign to "clear the air", so to speak.
Click to expand...
But he still voted for it....
 
Democrats
Voting percentage reported 55%

Bernie Sanders 59%
Hillary Clinton 39%

Republicans
Voting percentage reported 53%

Donald Trump 34%
Marco Rubio 10%
John Kasich 16%
Ted Cruz 12%
Jeb (John E. Bush) 11%
Chris Christie 8%
Carly Fiorina 4%
Ben Carson 2%

Not changing much. The battle for third continues!
 
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