ahhh yeah, we're on the same page there
I guess that point is made by the fact that Bernie's supporters have to clarify shit for him because he couldn't get it out right the first time
Former head of NAACP endorses Bernie Sanders for President
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ahhh yeah, we're on the same page there
I guess that point is made by the fact that Bernie's supporters have to clarify shit for him because he couldn't get it out right the first time
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I ran what you said through google translate and I still don't understand what you are saying.
Angelus Errare
Banned
It's not even just that, there's also the fact that many minority communities have never heard of Bernie Sanders so for many of them their main source of Bernie is those aforementioned condescending people. Not only that but love it or hate it "Clinton" is a name that many people are familiar with and many more remember their parents voting for a "Clinton".
That and the whole summoning MLK like a mystic pokemon, that shit never works and it never helps but people swear if they beat people over the head with that MLK stick long enough it'll click.
I haven't followed it real closely, but I'm pretty sure Bernie has said something really similar? Along the lines of how he wants to reform criminal justice and that you have to changes laws to combat racism because you can't make people not racist?
rokkerkory
Member
Hillary must be Jealous right now
They've already clarified they don't really care what the man has said, this is more about sticking it to his supporters, as it is in every Bernie thread.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I feel bad for MLK and Bernie that "walked with MLK" is tantamount to a joke now.
If I was speaking to a group of people and they asked me why they should have faith that the candidate I am talking about will actually help them once elected, I would talk about what that candidate has done in the past. Bernie Sanders marched with MLK, a man hated by the racist system and under surveillance by law enforcement. People now can say they would have done it too, but they weren't there at the time. Sanders also demonstrated against segregation. He was convicted of resisting arrest in Chicago at an anti-segregation rally. I'll note that white supporters usually didn't get the worst brunt of punishment for these actions, but they still supported by doing what they could against a system of hate. None of us can take away what brave people did back then, no matter how many letters we type on our computer. These people talked the talk and then walked the walk.
Is it possible to bring up Bernie's history in the 60's for Civil Rights without appearing as though I'm trying to tell voters "what's good for them"? Everyone stumping for a candidate clearly wants people to vote for them, at what point does it become condescension?
If I was speaking to a group of people and they asked me why they should have faith that the candidate I am talking about will actually help them once elected, I would talk about what that candidate has done in the past. Bernie Sanders marched with MLK, a man hated by the racist system and under surveillance by law enforcement. People now can say they would have done it too, but they weren't there at the time. Sanders also demonstrated against segregation. He was convicted of resisting arrest in Chicago at an anti-segregation rally. I'll note that white supporters usually didn't get the worst brunt of punishment for these actions, but they still supported by doing what they could against a system of hate. None of us can take away what brave people did back then, no matter how many letters we type on our computer. These people talked the talk and then walked the walk.
Is it possible to bring up Bernie's history in the 60's for Civil Rights without appearing as though I'm trying to tell voters "what's good for them"? Everyone stumping for a candidate clearly wants people to vote for them, at what point does it become condescension?
Bernie met with them and spoke with them as well. I think he did it first actually. Even so, the best we can say is that the BLM is not content with either candidate.
QuiteWhittle
Member
I don't understand what's confusing? VendettaRed07 said minorities don't see the elites as the great enemy probably, in part, because they're generally supportive of immigration and criminal justice reform, the two most visible racial issues of this election cycle.
The biggest barrier to reform are working-class whites who unfortunately fear the blacks and the browns. And these are the people Sanders tries to appeal to whenever he reverts back to his "economic inequality trumps all" message. You could say the elites successfully used fear-mongering for decades to get these people to vote against their own interests, but that's digging a bit further down from the surface.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Elites are supportive of immigration reform and criminal justice reform? What
I'll agree that the biggest barrier is the rest of the population that is racist, but the rich in society are always pulling the strings to stoke the fire. You have big business news outlets like Fox News painting a group like BLM as terrorists. Pitting whites against blacks is a classic way to get whites to vote against their own interests.
User 73706
Banned
With The Blacks being told left and right that Bernie is the way and that he knows what's best for them, looking to improve race relations through class-based solutions, and his supporters being the apex of rational discourse, I can say with 100% confidence and sincerity that Bernie's young white supporters will fully understand the ramifications of him not being elected as a political matter and not that black people were in the wrong for voting for other candidates.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
It's the combination of MLK's overuse as a Bernie credential. I'm tired of hearing about it. It's a meme, at this time.
Yup. Bish was questioned and I'm trying to help explain the frustration that is born out of these threads.
Months late on telling the asshole brigade to shut up - and if you think that's the only issue that minorities have with Sanders' campaign, that myopia speaks volumes on why minorities are not really noticing Bernie, as you put it.
Prop Eight II: Electric Boogaloo
When people bring up legitimate gripes with the candidate's actions, ie. fucking up at NetRoots, spinning racial issues to economic ones without fail as if jobs are somehow armour against bullets from racist cops, contradicting his own people who apologize for past actions against BLM...the first thing we hear is "he marched with MLK" as if that's supposed to address everything.
It's 2016.
Weird, in my experience it's used mainly as a retort to people who claim Bernie is uninterested in racial issues. But I certainly don't see all of the internet.
This is probably the best article I've seen summarizing the problem.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I cringe a little bit every time a Sanders supporter mentions that he marched with MLK as if that's proof of something. It's about as effective as saying he has black friends.
That said, I don't really understand any argument that claims Clinton is an overall more invested candidate in issues of racial discrimination and injustice. I don't think either candidate is ideal on the matter of addressing concerns that face non-whites in this country, but if you had to hold your nose and pull the lever for one, I'm not sure what the argument would be for Hillary over Bernie.
That said, I don't really understand any argument that claims Clinton is an overall more invested candidate in issues of racial discrimination and injustice. I don't think either candidate is ideal on the matter of addressing concerns that face non-whites in this country, but if you had to hold your nose and pull the lever for one, I'm not sure what the argument would be for Hillary over Bernie.
To answer your question, it's a matter of the one you know over the one you don't. In regards to the number of issues the next President is going to face, black people in particular are concerned about how this will affect their ability to stay upright and bullet-free.
This is actually an issue. My own dad kinda quakes at the whole "socialist" angle. Unfortunately, there is a messaging problem there with his campaign toward certain Hispanics. It's not to say it makes him a better or worse candidate, but those are the optics of it. I wish someone in his campaign had this point of view in mind. Regardless, his minority support has grown, but it's best to have more bases covered and get people on board more quickly.
Bernie's specifically race-based positions are more progressive than Clinton's, though. Like I said, he's been a major advocate of ending mass incarceration and the drug war for decades. Clinton was taking donations from private prisons last year.
VendettaRed07
Member
What real evidence is there to support that though? Bernie's message is that the middle class has declined over the past 40 years. That over time money and special interests have gotten more and more involved in lobbying to funnel financial income to the top 1%. That repealing glass steagall and bailing out the big banks was the worst thing to happen ever.
What Bernie is really communicating is that the country was much better, at least economic wise in the 1940s,50s and 60s. When we had a 90% tax bracket, when the middle class was at all time highs and the vast majority of wealth wasn't distributed towards the top 1%, when citizens united or Wallstreet didn't have the same effect on american politicians that they have today, when infrastructure was booming and we were constantly building state of the art airports, highways sky scrapers, etc. What good was any of that for minorities? They didn't see any of it and weren't included in the "good times" because of systemic institutional racism.
Fixing the economy does nothing when institutional racism is present. Raising the minimum wage is fine, but I'm pretty sure minorities would like a lot more than just a minimum wage, or just to get by, or what have you. They want to be included in the system full stop. They, just like everyone else, want to achieve their dreams, become somebody, doctors, lawyers, actors, etc. A system that allows everyone to excel. I don't know how Bernie's wallstreet reform plays into stopping employers from throwing out someone's job application because their name sounds too ethnic. Or how Hillary taking 600k to do a speech negatively effects them.
Had he really driven home those sorts of points, talked about real systematic reform, or reparations even, I can't say for certain, but I think you might see the same sort of enthusiasm towards him amongst black liberals as white liberals.
Its not to say that his record is bad, or that what Hillary has said or done is necessarily better. He just hasn't done or said anything that excites minorities or given them a reason to jump ship in the same way
Thought for sure it was gonna be
With The Blacks being told left and right that Bernie is the way and that he knows what's best for them, looking to improve race relations through class-based solutions, and his supporters being the apex of rational discourse, I can say with 100% confidence and sincerity that Bernie's young white supporters will fully understand the ramifications of him not being elected as a political matter and not that black people were in the wrong for voting for other candidates.
Is there even a single second of insincerity, or half truths, expressed by any of participants, in the following marvelous exchange, as I [post=194205650]posted[/post] in PoliGAF?
And, I'd be interested to know what specific policies of Bernie's you believe wouldn't have a positive impact, for African Americans, as a whole? For example, even though I, and Bernie have pointed out, that whites and blacks use marijuana at about the same level, you guys are four times more likely to face prosecution, so the fact Bernie would decriminalize weed, at the federal level, unlike Hillary, would be great, no?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Daniel B·;194256786 said:Is there even a single second of insincerity, or half truths, expressed by any of participants, in the following marvelous exchange, as I [post=194205650]posted[/post] in PoliGAF?
And, I'd be interested to know what specific policies of Bernie's you believe wouldn't have a positive impact, for African Americans, as a whole? For example, even though I, and I Bernie have pointed out, that whites and blacks use marijuana at about the same level, you guys are four times more likely to face prosecution, so the fact Bernie would decriminilize weed, at the federal level, unlike Hillary, would be great, no?
That wouldn't fix the reason for those high incarceration rate, racism in law enforcement.
*Slow clap*
The entitlement that (usually) white Bernie supporters have when it comes to minority voters supporting their candidate is a really bad look.
It also seems icky when they shout about all the 'black' endorsements he's gotten. It really reeks of "But I have black friends!"
Daniel B·;194256786 said:Is there even a single second of insincerity, or half truths, expressed by any of participants, in the following marvelous exchange, as I [post=194205650]posted[/post] in PoliGAF?
And, I'd be interested to know what specific policies of Bernie's you believe wouldn't have a positive impact, for African Americans, as a whole? For example, even though I, and I Bernie have pointed out, that whites and blacks use marijuana at about the same level, you guys are four times more likely to face prosecution, so the fact Bernie would decriminilize weed, at the federal level, unlike Hillary, would be great, no?
on paper maybe but the issue is that the police as they currently exist would just exploit something else
Veritigo_X
Member
Daniel B·;194256786 said:
How would he go about doing this? Ask the republican congress "pretty please"?
VendettaRed07
Member
Daniel B·;194256786 said:Is there even a single second of insincerity, or half truths, expressed by any of participants, in the following marvelous exchange, as I [post=194205650]posted[/post] in PoliGAF?
And, I'd be interested to know what specific policies of Bernie's you believe wouldn't have a positive impact, for African Americans, as a whole? For example, even though I, and Bernie have pointed out, that whites and blacks use marijuana at about the same level, you guys are four times more likely to face prosecution, so the fact Bernie would decriminilize weed, at the federal level, unlike Hillary, would be great, no?
Well what is the real cause of blacks going to jail for weed more than whites? The fact that their is racism in the police for or the fact that weed is illegal. Legalizing weed is sidestepping the issue of racism. There are other drugs that white people don't go to jail over that others do that aren't getting legalized any time soon
UnemployedVillain
Member
Thought for sure it was gonna be
This was my first thought too!
I mean, his website goes on and on about where he stands on race:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
Most of this stuff finds its way into his stump speeches and town hall debate rhetoric. I don't see him avoiding speaking about systematic reform, in fact that seems to be the focus of what he's saying.
Help me understand here. You seem to be describing a different candidate.
ugaboga232
Member
I thought bernie touched upon institutional racism decently at the town hall yesterday. Wish he talked about body cameras but he seemed to hit on a lot of important oversight/lethal force points.
VendettaRed07
Member
He talks about it, but it doesn't excite the base in the same way. He ticks all the right boxes on the issues, but doesn't bring that "enthusiasm". He brushed off reparations for example, saying that it just wasn't politically Feesable.
But the point is that nothing about his platform is about likeliness of passing. It's about saying to people "you have been screwed over and it isn't your fault."
I'd say this country has screwed over minorities more than any white person has been screwed over by a wallstreet banker.
That same excitement he brings on the issues like wallstreet and economic distribution just isn't there in the same way in regards to what black liberals value. At least, from my view.
Oh, for the love of...
I urge everyone to watch the video, and, of course (do I really have to spell this out?), criminal justice reform is a major plank of Bernie's proposals.
The bottom line is, there is just no way you can make the argument that Hillary would be stronger on any issues effecting African Americans, including wholesale justice reform, which is not surprising, as until recently, she received large campaign contributions from corporations running private prisons...
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I might be mistaken, but I think that's something he could make some headway on using executive orders.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I was coming in here to say this. This plus unfamiliarity.
The problem is that the Clintons aren't the staunch supporters of minorities as they'd have you believe.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...-it-clear-how-she-feels-about-Hillary-Clinton
Lots of other stuff there, including throwbacks to the 08' elections.
nitekrawlwer
Member
Bernie Sanders said:
The specific group he promised an ongoing dialogue I have criticized myself for removing the frame of race from the issue. Forgive me for thinking of it as anything less than a onanistic exercise than progress on the terms I'm asking for.
BLM might not be content with Hillary's more direct tell me what you want me to do about it so we can package and explain it does work for me.
Veritigo_X
Member
Obama has previously ruled out using executive orders to reschedule marijuana. I think his reasoning was any executive order would be overturned since it would violate a law that congress set, or something like that.
UltimaPooh
Member
Which candidate would you like to see running for office Bish?
If you've "made it", perhaps against the odds (as an American American), that's great, but the fact is Bernie's policies would benefit the overwhelming majority of Americans, very much including minorities, who unquestionably have less opportunities in this country, and face wildly disproportionate attention from the authorities.
Thought for sure it was gonna be
It's ironic that you say that, because another public figure whose blackness was under fire has endorsed a political candidate.
When Hillary said that, Bernie was having a hard time getting on-message, and getting the right message, about BLM. Yes, since then his position is similar to Hillary's.
I'm not "they". I support Bernie, but six months ago, and at points still, Sanders is a step slow on issues affecting blacks and Hispanics.
Dude Abides
Banned
Daniel B·;194256786 said:
I'm not watching a 45 minute video of people agreeing with each other.
Do they talk about Bernie's vote for the 1994 Omnibus Crime BIll? A lot of Berners seem puzzlingly unaware of this fact.
Bernie has explained this repeatedly as a bill he felt forced to vote for due to its inclusion of the VAWA and the federal assault weapons ban. So no, it's not really that puzzling.
Dude Abides
Banned
It is in fact puzzling since that bill is exhibit A in the case against Racist Hillary the Mass Incarcerater.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Do you have any links where he personally explains his vote?
I tried searching for some explanation but I couldn't find one.
Although it would be time exceedingly well spent, as it's highly digestible, and sometimes a lighthearted exchange, you can read my transcript of some of the highlights, in the PoliGAF [post=194205650]post[/post].
She promoted the bill, how is it puzzling?
Dude Abides
Banned
Because he voted for it. What about the contradiction aren't you grasping?
Here's a speech he made prior to the bill passing denouncing and forecasting the effects of parts of the bill he disagreed with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTn3jUoMdVI
Here's another one even earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJ7f-3XGB4
Here's Bernie arguing for VAWA:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuenGIA3YwI
Take note at 1:08: "Mr. Speaker, I have a number of serious problems with the crime bill"
I tried to find a clip of him discussing this recently, but I distinctly remember him discussing it with Rachel Maddow or in some other news program earlier in his campaign to "clear the air", so to speak.
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