Republican Debate 9 [CBS News] Screw you guys, I'm going home

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If anything good came out of Trump entering the Republican race -- it was seeing the Bush family getting insulted, humiliated, and embarrassed on a weekly basis. On a Republican stage...in front of a Republican audience.
 
Downhome said:
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If Trump wins the next few states handily after the pundits had a meltdown over WMDs, Planned Parenthood support, and while the Republican base supports W Bush...I'm sorry he might be one of the greatest politicians of all time. It's a shame he advocates and associates himself with so much hate, because until he loses he gives off an aura that he's untouchable. I'm not convinced if all but one of the conservative candidates dropped out they could get a majority against him at this point. He will say anything and can sell it.
 
TheLaughingStock said:
If Trump wins the next few states handily after the pundits had a meltdown over WMDs, Planned Parenthood support, and while the Republican base supports W Bush...I'm sorry he might be one of the greatest politicians of all time. It's a shame he advocates and associates himself with so much hate, because until he loses he gives off an aura that he's untouchable. I'm not convinced if all but one of the conservative candidates dropped out they could get a majority against him at this point. He will say anything and can sell it.
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For better or worse both future politicians and political reporters will study this campaign to figure out how he did it and how to replicate/prevent it.
 
Watched most it with the (slightly conservative) wife.

All i can say is, when was the last time America saw a candidate take on all the other candidates, the moderators, and the crowd in the same debate? it's glorious. Trump even told everyone that GWB was in office on 9/11. Golden. And actually standing up for PP in a GOP debate? blasphemy

I thought Rubio held his own. Didn't do any further damage. Obviously, he wants to be the establishment candidate as he was so ready to stand up for GWB. Otherwise, I think Rubio did good enough to stay in the race.

The SC vote is going to be so interesting.


AlteredBeast said:
Trump looked and acted pissed much of the night. He ranged from lucid and biting, to belligerent and childish, but damn if he didn't come out the winner. He continues to make good points and support ideas and rhetoric that Republicans with a conscience know, but refuse to acknowledge:

A) W fucked up. Not just for himself, but for the country and party.

B) Even if you disagree with the abortion part of what Planned Parenthood does, they do a ton good for women's health. I heard other candidates on stage make reference to trying to support women and children while also supporting the defunding of PP... Makes absolutely no sense but in the minds of "compromise shows you are weak" Republicans.

C) Cruz and Jeb! are unlikeable losers. Cruz he called nasty and Jeb he remarked was weak and made constantly terrible judgment calls.

D) Special Interests and lobbyists are fucking swine and he makes a clear distinction between himself and Jeb/Cruz.


This race is really between Trump, Rubio, and Kasich as the outside pick. Cruz, Bush, and especially Carson are done for. I believe that a Trump presidency, while not possible in our Universe, would be better than GWB's run, if mostly because he says accurate, non-pandering things when it counts. Obviously, as a decent human being, I am pushing for Bernie, but a lot of what Trump says definitely separates himself from the lunacy of the other candidates' positions.

It is really too bad for him that he went hard on xenophobia, and bigotry in his first few months of running, since he would probably sway a lot of blue collar Democrats and independents with his rhetoric and protectionism slants. He has sold his soul to appease voters of the party and there is no way he will dial them back, period.
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Good analysis. I agree.


Downhome said:
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insane
 
EatinOlives said:
I truly do not understand this emergent narrative that "Trump is probably not THAT racist/xenophobic because reasons". It appears that people are convincing themselves of this simply because they want it to be true, but there's nothing in Trump's demeanor and rhetoric that changes or refutes this fact. All he has done at this point is...not talk about his xenophobia and people are now tripping over themselves calling him not xenophobic.

The man has spewed so many dogwhistles it's insulting. Even more insulting to insinuate he may actually do good for the country. The man has no platform, no scruples, and no tact. He has consistently shown he's incredibly poor at handling criticism, doesn't know how to take a loss, can't help himself from throwing tantrums when he gets into feuds with groups like Fox News, throws ad hominems like a 7 year old on GameFAQs as a default debate tactic, and has a ton of shit baggage like spearheading the Obama birther issue that people are all too quick to forget.

He's every bit as bad a candidate as he's been made out to be and more. Just because he says one or two things you may agree with does not make all of these horrible qualities of his any less true. You can, in fact, admit to agree to some of the things he says while still admitting he's a terrible candidate.



He can't go back on things like the wall. That's literally the one thing he's most famous for.

At this point there has been way too many gaffes from his end that end up not costing him anything in the GOP primaries that people are convinced he can just handwave major criticisms and swing voters will be none the wiser, but that simply won't happen. He's out of his league in the general election. There is no way he can shift 90% of his rhetoric and have it magically favor him among swing voters and minorities.
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The problem is the other Republican candidates are exactly as you described minus the few talking points that we can agree on.

People like Jeb, Cruz, and Rubio are far worse than Trump. They are lunatics that will put this country into debt brought on by more futile/pointless wars and tax cuts for the rich. Trump at least has some populist ideas to go along with the same craziness.
 
“Obviously the war in Iraq was a big, fat mistake, all right?” Trump said at the debate in Greenville, South Carolina. “George Bush made a mistake, we can make mistakes. But that one was a beauty.”
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Christ did Trump really say that ? I have new found respect for that asshole.
 
DragonSworne said:
The problem is the other Republican candidates are exactly as you described minus the few talking points that we can agree on.

People like Jeb, Cruz, and Rubio are far worse than Trump. They are lunatics that will put this country into debt brought on by more futile/pointless wars and tax cuts for the rich. Trump at least has some populist ideas to go along with the same craziness.
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Yeah, relatively speaking he has some kind of appeal in some statements.

But the key here is "relatively speaking". We've been seeing such a batshit primary with just straight up clown politicians with the "establishment" favorites crashing and burning. Some have lost perspective to such a degree that any sort of statement that can be remotely construed as reasonable and people are quick to praise. How fast we forget the rest of his platform.

Maybe it's desperation for agreeable statements from the right, but as of late I've seen moderates have positive shit to say about Trump and it's mind boggling. It's such an easy way of manipulating people that it's astounding how well it's working among some. Start off saying completely crazy dumb shit for months to get everyone's attention, then start saying some facile statements with universal appeal to have everyone go "you know, this crazy guy is really not that crazy! Maybe he's onto something!" He can only do this because he needs neither big donors nor the establishment backing to keep him afloat. It's like playing with godmode on. How do you NOT succeed when you have none of the constraints and rules apply to you?

B-Dubs said:
For better or worse both future politicians and political reporters will study this campaign to figure out how he did it and how to replicate/prevent it.
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It's easy. Infinite money + pander to the easily panderable. Done. It hasn't been done before because no independent billionaire has decided to beat the drum of the demagogue.
 
Seeing Trump rip apart W's administration on the Iraq war was glorious. I was like, yes!! Fucking finally someone is actually saying this at a republican debate!
 
royalan said:
The only reason his racist/sexist/xenophobic doesn't dominate headlines anymore is because we've heard it all before, none of it's new anymore, but it's still there. At this point, I don't believe that he just said all that shit to sway an extremist base; he's as batshit looney as everyone else on that stage. He's just the anti-establishment looney.
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Also the fact that he's looney should disqualify him. Even if you think the wall is just posturing, he's already fostered a lot of international resentment against him (i.e. Mexico's president) and he's really making America look like the most xenophobic country in the world. Foreign policy under him is not worth the risk of losing current relationships.

Furthermore, his mind seems very out there. For instance, he was a firm proponent of Obama's birth certificate being fake. It takes a certain kind of gullibility and crazed determination to believe that to the point where he thinks it's REAL. Imagine of that same mind was to control the fate of the US's army. Holy crap.

Still, seeing him take out any and all Republicans while taking himself out too is a joy to watch :D
 
Mrmartel said:
I think Trump will be trouble for the democrats if only for the fact that he hates the bushes as much as a typical left wing liberal does.

If he gets the nom, he will be shitting on the bush name every chance he gets. I'm looking forward to it.
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He would only make trouble for Hillary who supported Bush's decision to declare war on Iraq. If he is smart he'll bring up her relationship with Henry Kissinger like Bernie did. If he does his homework he could make her life a living hell even if she wins.
 
GavinGT said:
I'm just so grossed out that every candidate went along with the notion that Obama shouldn't get to nominate Scalia's replacement. These guys talk endlessly about following the Constitution and then something like this happens and they start trying to bend it to their will. The body's not even cold yet and the entire party is already in solidarity to politicize it. What a bunch of frauds.
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Why are you surprised? What position did you expect them to take?

Also, of course a new SCOTUS judge is a political issue. The position itself is inherently political.


Bear Cub in Sky said:
Trump said he would do it if he were Obama.
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Shit. Did i miss that during the debate?


Link said:
I'd be interested in hearing what a moderate conservative such as your wife thinks about this current crop of GOP candidates and how this debate went.
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She likes Rubio and enjoyed Trump's performance. But my wife doesn't really vote anymore. Not after I made fun of her for voting however her dad told her to (like literally calling her dad on how to vote).

Also, I was being kind to my wife there. By "watch", I really meant "play with her iPad 90% of the time" during the debate. She watched it here & there.
 
EatinOlives said:
It's easy. Infinite money + pander to the easily panderable. Done. It hasn't been done before because no independent billionaire has decided to beat the drum of the demagogue.
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Trump has barely spent his money, most of his opponents have outspent him, some by crazy margins. His success comes from his ability to manipulate the media cycles, not because of his finances.
 
LosDaddie said:
Why are you surprised? What position did you expect them to take?

Also, of course a new SCOTUS judge is a political issue. The position itself is inherently political.
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Because the notion that Congress should delay it for a year and blatantly refuse to do their job is just wrong. I expected it from someone like Cruz (even though he's a Supreme Court scholar he's a scumbag first and foremost), but I thought the likes of Kasich and Bush might err on the side of being reasonable. It's going to make the party look really bad if they go through with this, and I thought some of them would acknowledge that.
 
Basileus777 said:
Trump has barely spent his money, most of his opponents have outspent him, some by crazy margins. His success comes from his ability to manipulate the media cycles, not because of his finances.
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Not because he has actually spent infinite money, it's that money is no impediment to him. He has to do no campaigning (and that's a BIG deal and a huge timesink for traditional candidates), and when he says shit he doesn't need to watch his words lest he anger big donors. Money being no object to him has more consequences than "he can spend a lot of money".

Manipulating the media cycles I categorize under "pander the easily panderable".
 
Wow just got to the part with Trump throwing GWB under the bus. Will be interesting to see the polls, which I have a feeling will not be reflective of all the boo'ing Trump got.
 
EatinOlives said:
It's easy. Infinite money + pander to the easily panderable. Done. It hasn't been done before because no independent billionaire has decided to beat the drum of the demagogue.
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Can you really grab billionaires and have them say ban Muslims, Planned Parenthood does great things except abortion, and btw Bush didn't keep America safe...and get to this point in the primary as a Republican frontrunner? I don't know about all that for most billionaires.
 
TheLaughingStock said:
Can you really grab billionaires and have them say ban Muslims, Planned Parenthood does great things except abortion, and btw Bush didn't keep America safe...and get to this point in the primary as a Republican frontrunner? I don't know about all that.
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Two of the three things you said he said today, well after he's been established as the frontrunner, not when he started. Talking about banning Muslims? Absolutely.
 
Saganator said:
Wow just got to the part with Trump throwing GWB under the bus. Will be interesting to see the polls, which I have a feeling will not be reflective of all the boo'ing Trump got.
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It definitely won't be reflective since the crowd is full of donor supporters. It is good for Trump to remind everyone who is booing and why. Makes the established candidates look bad in my opinion.
 
Many Republicans blame George W. Bush for tarnishing the image of the Republican party. Some will even blame G.W. Bush for why McCain and Romney lost their elections. So I can't see how bashing Bush will significantly hurt Trump's poll numbers.
 
People don't talk about Bush. Which is telling. He and his team were a disaster and the main foreign policy discussions are generally around how to fix his ongoing mess.

Thought from the 30 min vid it was Trumps strongest debate. He closed out Jeb and when he talked about his brothers foreign policy you see theres more to his decision to run than purely ego. And he closed down Cruz as well.

Suspect on this performance the establisent will be beginning to come around to a Trump run.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
So who were the winners and losers tonight?
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I think your guess is as good as anyone for Republican debates this year.

Am a bit surprised about the Planned Parenthood stuff from Trump. That has the potential to hurt him, maybe.
The Iraq war stuff won't hurt him though, not with his base. Republicans really need to admit they fucked that up.
 
Suikoguy said:
I think your guess is as good as anyone for Republican debates this year.

Am a bit surprised about the Planned Parenthood stuff from Trump. That has the potential to hurt him, maybe.
The Iraq war stuff won't hurt him though, not with his base. Republicans really need to admit they fucked that up.
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Most republicans I know IRL certainly do.

I think overall you could see the panic in Trump's eyes.
 
Republicans are currently whispering this and I agree: If Trump survives the next polls AND gets South Carolina, then he has won.

I think asking for South Carolina is too much though.
 
MartyStu said:
Republicans are currently whispering this and I agree: If Trump survives the next polls AND gets South Carolina, then he has won.

I think asking for South Carolina is too much though.
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There have been 3 polls since New Hampshire that have Trump in the lead. He needs to drop like 15 percentage points to lose South Carolina.
 
if trump could cut the bigoted crap and appealing to his dumbass voting base he might be above rubio in my eyes for his isolationist policies and his more progressive social policy stances


edit; holy shit cruz pumping out the spanish


edit 2; i thought this would be a step down in entertainment with christie gone, boy was i wrong
 
Saganator said:
Wow just got to the part with Trump throwing GWB under the bus. Will be interesting to see the polls, which I have a feeling will not be reflective of all the boo'ing Trump got.
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Yeah, George Bush's failures play right into Trump's base, which supports him because they feel he's qualified on the basis of not being a politician. The failures of any previous political figure, republican or democrat, just plays into their deeply held belief that we need to elect a non-politician to the office if we want an effective president. I really don't see this hurting Trump. It's nothing but red meat for his base.
 
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