Support NeoGAF

[Earthpainting]

I can't really say I've been exposed to all that much Hillary hate. Granted I'm not American and haven't been keeping up with the campaigns, so my perspective is a lot more limited in its scope than for the rest of you guys'. Most of the election news I see is here on GAF, and it's usually in the form of 'Trump is ridiculous' or 'Sanders has obnoxious followers'.

Honestly I feel like a large contributor to this situation is the fact that the American political landscape funnels itself into a narrow two-party system. It breeds a dynamic where many people first engage in some in-fighting during the lengthy nomination-phase, and then during the actual election the now disenfranchised feel the need to vote against ideals, rather than for them.

I can't fathom the volume that drone bombing will escalate too under Clinton. At least for Trump, he might not like the cost?

Maybe he'll send the bill to the people getting bombed.

 

[Cromat]

I think the question of how you feel about Hillary is secondary. If you are faced with a choice between burgers or pizza, it doesn't matter that you prefer sushi over both.

The relevant question is this: what world would be better, the one where Hillary Clinton is president or the one where Donald Trump is. And honestly I cannot see anyone reasonably argue that Trump's world is better. Even if Hillary continues Obama's policies 100% and didn't change anything, she'll be far better than that clown. Given the magnitude of the repercussions of choosing an American president, I'd consider it a moral obligation to vote to prevent the Trump dystopia, even if you really think Hillary is horrible. She just can't be as bad as Trump or the other Republicans.

 

[GYODX]

"When Mexico sends their people, they bring in drugs, they're rapists.... And some are good people!"

*their rapists

 

[Aerogamer]

Right now it would be disastrous for Progressive values if we ended up with a Republican President. Having a Republican President means that Democratic turnout is low. We will lose seats in the Senate and House. A Republican President spells trouble as the current Supreme Court vacancy will be filled with a Conservative. There will no doubt be at least two other seats on the Court up for grabs soon as well. This would create a Conservative stranglehold on the courts for decades. Also say goodbye to progress and research for Climate Change, Planned Parenthood, Livable Minimum Wage, Women's Reproductive Rights, a setback for LBGT rights, Affordable Education, any chance at a Public Option for healthcare and Wall Street Reform.

Also say hello to more infringement on your personal liberties, no criminal justice reform and no reduction of minority prison populations souring relations with the rest of the world, less gun control and increasing discrimination against minorities. I really think it is time for the left to realize that we need to win this election. If you want the country to change for the better, you have to vote for it to be possible. Having the government shift fundamentally to the right will set us back so far that a "revolution" will become a pipe dream.

Vote for Hillary if your are a progressive or Bernie's visions will be completely destroyed for the foreseeable future as the three branches shift heavily to the right after this cycle.

 

[NIGHT-]

Yea, Hillary is just as bad as Trump... Actually she's worse, imo. Won't vote for either if Bernie doesn't win

 

[BowieZ]

I think the question of how you feel about Hillary is secondary. If you are faced with a choice between burgers or pizza, it doesn't matter that you prefer sushi over both.

The relevant question is this: what world would be better, the one where Hillary Clinton is president or the one where Donald Trump is. And honestly I cannot see anyone reasonably argue that Trump's world is better. Even if Hillary continues Obama's policies 100% and didn't change anything, she'll be far better than that clown.

This is a false dichotomy until the General Election.

There's no reason any of us has to like Hillary. I'd vote for her over Trump. But Hillary deserves hate IMO. She is a corporate shill who just wants to be Prez and has been doin' whatever it takes to be Prez for over 20 years. Why we corner ourselves into continuing to vote for lousy career politicians who are myopic spineless leaders and who place personal ambition above all else, is beyond me. If one disagrees with this notion, good for you, I guess?

 

[Amir0x]

I'm a Bernie fan, myself. But the amount of die-hard Bernie fans that have an amazing amount of hatred for Hillary is astounding. They go so far as to say that she's just as bad as Trump. If Bernie doesn't win the primaries, they plan on writing in his name in the general election or simply not voting at all. That makes us much more likely to have a republican president. The hatred for her is what makes me scared that we'll have Cruz, Trump, or Rubio as president.

I may not love Hillary, but I do NOT want a republican president, and I feel that anyone who's liberal should feel the same way. Why all the Hillary hate all of the sudden? I see so much anti-Hillary propaganda from liberals all over social media. Even in conversations, they shit on her so much. I know she's not going to crack down on Wall Street, I know she's not anti-establishment like Bernie, I know she's not a progressive. But the fact of the matter is that we CANNOT have a republican in the White House.

Don't worry about these Bernie Bros. Every time there is a candidate with particularly enthusiastic supporters they make this threat about how if the other candidate becomes the nominee they won't show up at the polls in November, and basically every time it doesn't materialize. It's an empty threat and embarrassing to even have to entertain for all involved. Next time a Bernie supporter says this, laugh in their face and walk away.

Yea, Hillary is just as bad as Trump... Actually she's worse, imo.

Please qualify the statement about how she is worse than Trump. For the studio audience, at least.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

Oh, this old tired argument again. Let's see... FiveThirtyEight on Clinton's political leaning.

OnTheIssues.Org's has an exhaustive list of Clinton's stances and ranks her politics based on comments, voting records and her entire career. The result?

DailyKos on Clinton's liberalism:

And The New York Times?

And if this hasn't already been mentioned repeatedly, her voting record is over 90% identical to Bernie Sanders. "Hillary Clinton is not liberal" is, to be blunt, ignorant bullshit.

Clearly just as bad as Trump you guys!

 

[Ekai]

Tons. None of us grew up white or privileged. So get that nonsense out of here. We all grew up Hispanic/black/Asian, many of us coming from immigrant families, and see what life has become in inner city neighborhoods. Bernie is the first, FIRST, sign of hope we have ever seen for those in the communities we come from.

Unfortunately some Hillary supporters like to push this line that you can't be a minority and support Bernie because they like to believe Bernie's support is young straight white cis-dudes only. Facts be damned regarding the actual demographics. Otherwise they'd have to re-examine how they're demonizing the very same people they claim to be speaking for who simply support another option first and foremost and more importantly what that option stands for. Sorry you had to have that shit flung your way as well.

That said, in response to what you mentioned earlier about corporate-rule by voting for her, while a vote for Hillary is somewhat a vote for the status quo (while she is somewhat similar to Bernie, I don't trust her when it comes to my rights in particular), it's far far better than the alternative which would work actively against the rights of everyone except rich white Christian cis-dudes. . Which is what we will have to say til things change. People don't seem to care for faster change and would rather maintain status quo (which is frankly insulting to me given how far we still have to go on many issues-it harkens to what I mention at the bottom) or do slow incremental change at best. Plus Democrats aren't voting enough at state levels so that's hindering progress as well.

Side note not directed at you: It's weird to read people (or rather one person) in this topic who support Bernie with a "fuck you, I got mine" attitude for economic reasons and to read elsewhere people who support Hillary arguing they support her precisely because of the exact same "fuck you, I got mine" economic reason. Seems like both are sub-groups who would rather be out for themselves than give any fucks for minorities who benefit from the social and economic policies on the Democrat ticket.

 

[TyrantII]

Don't worry about these Bernie Bros. Every time there is a candidate with particularly enthusiastic supporters they make this threat about how if the other candidate becomes the nominee they won't show up at the polls in November, and basically every time it doesn't materialize. It's an empty threat and embarrassing to even have to entertain for all involved. Next time a Bernie supporter says this, laugh in their face and walk away.



Please qualify the statement about how she is worse than Trump. For the studio audience, at least.

Or as this thread has shown, they never vote Democrat anyways and throw away votes on La Rouche or Green-Rainbow candidates.

Liberal Democrats saw what happened in 2000 and know politics is gray, not black and white; mostly moving past the all or nothing nonsense of those dead end movements.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

The amount of hate for Trump surpasses her, and in my opinion, that will only intensify as things really start to heat up for the general election..

 

[Amir0x]

Or as this thread has shown, they never vote Democrat anyways and throw away votes on La Rouche or Green-Rainbow candidates.

Liberal Democrats saw what happened in 2000 and know politics is gray, not black and white; mostly moving past the all or nothing nonsense of those dead end movements.

They'll learn the hard way. People who either fundamentally don't get the American political system or don't care and think ideology matters more than the ability to actually get anything accomplished from that ideology. They have yet to realize they'll never be in control, and so have to learn the hard way. Some Bernie Sanders supporters for example still believe he has a shot at winning and think Bernie has led some sort of political "revolution." They don't even realize the so-called "revolution" is pulling in pitiable numbers for something called such.

 

[213372bu]

I think getting scared over "Hillary hate" on an internet video game forum that leans heavily to the left is a tad over dramatic.

In real life, most of her opposition is apathetic, with a minority being critical.

Huelen and other posters aside, no human being is going to vote against her either.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Unfortunately some Hillary supporters like to push this line that you can't be a minority and support Bernie because they like to believe Bernie's support is young straight white cis-dudes only. Facts be damned regarding the actual demographics. Otherwise they'd have to re-examine how they're demonizing the very same people they claim to be speaking for who simply support another option first and foremost and more importantly what that option stands for. Sorry you had to have that shit flung your way as well.

That said, in response to what you mentioned earlier about corporate-rule by voting for her, while a vote for Hillary is somewhat a vote for the status quo (while she is somewhat similar to Bernie, I don't trust her when it comes to my rights in particular), it's far far better than the alternative which would work actively against the rights of everyone except rich white Christian cis-dudes. . Which is what we will have to say til things change. People don't seem to care for faster change and would rather maintain status quo (which is frankly insulting to me given how far we still have to go on many issues-it harkens to what I mention at the bottom) or do slow incremental change at best. Plus Democrats aren't voting enough at state levels so that's hindering progress as well.

Side note not directed at you: It's weird to read people (or rather one person) in this topic who support Bernie with a "fuck you, I got mine" attitude for economic reasons and to read elsewhere people who support Hillary arguing they support her precisely because of the exact same "fuck you, I got mine" economic reason. Seems like both are sub-groups who would rather be out for themselves than give any fucks for minorities who benefit from the social and economic policies on the Democrat ticket.

The post you replied to had nothing to do with anyone saying you can't be a minority and support Sanders.

 

[Ekai]

The post you replied to had nothing to do with anyone saying you can't be a minority and support Sanders.

They were responding directly to someone who questioned them being AA. The poster I responded to specifically told them to cut that shit out. It was literally a Hillary supporter trying to argue that you can't be a minority and support Bernie.

 

[excelsiorlef]

They were responding directly to someone who questioned them being AA. The poster I responded to specifically told them to cut that shit out. It was literally a Hillary supporter trying to argue that you can't be a minority and support Bernie.

It was about Trump and the GE and that person's belief that Clinton would be worse than him as President.

Literally none of this thread has really anything to do with Sanders.

So literally not what you're claiming at all.

 

[Dictator93]

I think there is some hidden misogyny in this, but I also think the greater problem is the lack of a diverse party structure in the U.S. and first past the post crap.

With other more split party ideologies (a social deomocratic party of some sort for example), this would not be such a problem. People feel like they are stuck between chooosing a lesser of two evils, instead of chooosing pactual representatives.

I say this as someone who thinks Clinton is better than any republican, but also sees her candidacy as "more of the same" and "status quo".

 

[Ekai]

It was about Drumpf and the GE.....

Literally none of this thread has really anything to do with Sanders.

They're a Bernie supporter. Who expressed dismay over Hillary and how they prefer Sanders.
They responded to how you stated a non-vote is a vote screwing over minorities. Something I generally agree with even if Hillary would be more status-quoy, it's better than the alternative. Another responded to their statement arguing, and I quote: "How much melanin does your group contain, combined?"
The person I quoted literally tells this Hillary supporter to get that shit out of there and that they are a racial minority who supports and believes in Bernie.
It's literally right there in the quote chain.

 

[excelsiorlef]

They're a Bernie supporter. Who expressed dismay over Hillary and how they prefer Sanders.
They responded to how you stated a non-vote is a vote screwing over minorities. Something I generally agree with even if Hillary would be more status-quoy, it's better than the alternative. Another responded to their statement arguing, and I quote: "How much melanin does your group contain, combined?"
Their response tells them to get that shit out of there and that they are a racial minority.
It's literally right there in the quote chain.

The comment was out of line but it has nothing to do with Sanders or supporting Sanders.

The group in question was a reference to the person's group of friends whom all refuse to vote Clinton in the GE and will either vote Trump, third party or not at all because they believe Clinton is worse than Trump.

It literally had nothing to do with supporting Bernie Sanders over Clinton and everything to do with thinking Trump is better than Clinton

 

[Ultima_5]

At least Trump is entertaining. Hillary is the most boring person on the planet.

I keep seeing stuff like this posted and if you live in America, it's idiotic.

If you're outside of America, it sorta makes sense but still

 

[Zaptruder]

Honestly, with every single candidate, America is kinda fucked.

They're just shades of less fucked and more fucked.

Obviously Clinton is in the carry on the status quo fucked category, while Republican candidates are in the derail America, destabilize the world category of fuckedness.

Sanders honestly... if he's elected - won't be able to achieve much, other than not giving into shit like TTIP/TTP. So the least fucked.

But to be fair, the reason America is gonna get screwed has less to do with their political quagmire and more to do with the speed at which shit is going down in the tech world. So it'll effect more than America.

 

[213372bu]

I think there is some hidden misogyny in this, but I also think the greater problem is the lack of a diverse party structure in the U.S. and first past the post crap.

With other more split party ideologies (a social deomocratic party of some sort for example), this would not be such a problem. People feel like they are stuck between chooosing a lesser of two evils, instead of chooosing pactual representatives.

I say this as someone who thinks Clinton is better than any republican, but also sees her candidacy as "more of the same" and "status quo".

As far as the first paragraph, what makes you think people against Clinton have some deep rooted Freudian misogyny going on?

Even people who hold on to some of the more reaching claims seem to not like her for actual reasons that they believe are crucial.

I'd even say most people dislike her because of her political history, a reason that's extremely valid compared to other complaints .

 

[Ekai]

The comment was out of line but it has nothing to do with Sanders or supporting Sanders.

The group in question was a reference tobrhe guy's grouo of friends whom all refuse to vote Clinton in the GE and will either vote Drumpf, third party or not at all because they believe Clinton is worse than Drumpf.

It literally had nothing to do with supporting Bernie Sanders....

But it had everything to do with supporting Bernie. They're a Bernie supporter and a Hillary supporter questioned the quality of their skin color after they made statements not supporting Hillary or anyone else if Bernie were to not get the nom. The accusation/insult isn't subtle at all here.

They didn't even say they would vote Drumpf. Their post literally states they will either not vote or vote independent if Bernie were to not get the nom. They go on to say in a later post that they believe both Hillary and Drumpf to be bad choices.

I do not agree with everything they argued but they were literally questioned on the quality of their skin for being a Bernie supporter.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

But it had everything to do with supporting Bernie. They're a Bernie supporter and a Hillary supporter questioned the quality of their skin color after they made statements not supporting Hillary or anyone else if Bernie were to not get the nom. The accusation isn't subtle at all here.

They didn't even say they would vote Drumpf. Their post literally states they will either not vote or vote independent. They go on to say in later post that they believe both Hillary and Drumpf to be bad choices.

I do not agree with everything they argued but they were literally questioned on the quality of their skin.

Not voting is as stupid as voting for Trump. The associated lack of giving a fuck in that action was what led to questioning whether or not that poster was a minority.

Nothing to do with being a Bernie supporter, everything to do with being a petulant Bernie supporter who didn't take what Bernie said to heart.

 

[Ekai]

Not voting is as stupid as voting for Drumpf. The associated lack of giving a fuck in that action was what led to questioning whether or not that poster was a minority

Nothing to do with being a Bernie supporter, everything to do with being a petulant Bernie supporter who didn't take what Bernie said to heart..

It's still inexcusable to me. It's still an accusation that you can't be a minority and support Bernie.

So you're admitting to it being because they're a Bernie supporter. I can frankly understand his/her reaction regarding Hillary's status-quo nature. Bernie is certainly different from her in some regards on these matters. I agree not voting isn't the best solution/response and she's certainly similarish in ways to Bernie/a far better alternative than the Republican offering but this accusation that they don't take what Bernie argues to heart AND the questioning of their skin color is a bit insulting. More so the skin color accusation than anything else. As for taking what Bernie says to heart, I don't blame them for not trusting Hillary as much on these matters. I don't support the not voting thing but I don't blame their lack of trust regarding her tackling issues that impact their demographic. Still I would argue a vote for her is in the end better than nothing at all. But time will tell in the end if she's the nom. and wins the GE how much she will do or try to do for minorities depending on if an obstructionist Congress blockades her on these matters. If anything happens I imagine it will be small and incremental at best.

 

[Barzul]

Scary that some people would rather not vote or vote Republican just to ensure she doesn't win (not in anyway intimating this is a popular view). It's like have you been watching the debates? Can people seriously just detach themselves to the point that they feel no responsibility if a Republican gets the white house, because they didn't vote? Like seriously you think if Bernie won the primary, Clinton supporters wouldn't go out for him?

I guess for me as I'm not an American citizen yet and come from a country where for the longest, your vote was basically useless. It is kind of stomach churning to see people whose votes actually matter not actively exercise that right.

Yea, Hillary is just as bad as Trump... Actually she's worse, imo. Won't vote for either if Bernie doesn't win

Like this, you think by not voting you've protested something effectively? You're just as complicit if the country turns to shit imo.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

I keep seeing stuff like this posted and if you live in America, it's idiotic.

If you're outside of America, it sorta makes sense but still

Lets be realistic, people voting for Hillary are voting for the "D" and not anything new she has to offer or has accomplished. Hillary wants this trophy and is willing say anything and move as far left as necessary in her rhetoric as she needs to secure it. The sad thing is that most people know that she is fake as hell and will still vote for her just because she is running under the democratic banner and have been taught to fear the boogie men on the right.

 

[border]

The sad thing is that most people know that she is fake as hell and will still vote for her just because she is running under the democratic banner and have been taught to fear the boogie men on the right.

This might be more convincing if the Republicans weren't about to actually nominate a boogie man.

 

[Ekai]

Lets be realistic, people voting for Hillary are voting for the "D" and not anything new she has to offer or has accomplished. Hillary wants this trophy and is willing say anything and move as far left as necessary in her rhetoric as she needs to secure it. The sad thing is that most people know that she is fake as hell and will still vote for her just because she is running under the democratic banner and have been taught to fear the boogie men on the right.

The right-wing is literally full of boogie-men though.

 

[rjinaz]

They'll learn the hard way. People who either fundamentally don't get the American political system or don't care and think ideology matters more than the ability to actually get anything accomplished from that ideology. They have yet to realize they'll never be in control, and so have to learn the hard way. Some Bernie Sanders supporters for example still believe he has a shot at winning and think Bernie has led some sort of political "revolution." They don't even realize the so-called "revolution" is pulling in pitiable numbers for something called such.

Bernie is not going to win fair enough, and I'm not sure if "revolution" is the right term, but I we'll have to agree to disagree if you don't think Bernie's run is going to have any lasting effect. Outside of SC, Bernie has been toe to toe with Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is one of the most recognizable names in the world. She has been known for decades. Bernie Sanders was not a widely known figure, in that most Americans especially had no clue who he was before the end of last year. He has done alright for himself, reaching a lot of people with his message.

An American Presidential candidate just ran his entire campaign on the ideas of democratic-socialism, and he didn't Jeb Bush. The younger generation has been all about Bernie. They are going to replace the older generation eventually and be all about these ideas. So change is going to happen, probably not for a decade or two, but it will.

Now how much of an effect did Bernie have on this eventual change? Well only time will tell. I think he did a lot of informing, people that had no clue how much of the rest of the civilized world is doing things, now do and realize America is far behind. I think he has set the fire for a lot of people that would otherwise not care much about politics. Maybe this will give rise to another Bernie like candidate in the near future that can succeed. Maybe instead of 50 years it now takes 25 years. I absolutely do think he has started something.

Look Hillary is the right choice as President for this time. I'll agree with you there. It's obvious America is not ready. But opening America up a bit to the ideals of social-democracy is not a bad thing, though the way you talk, it certainly seems like you think it is, as if you would prefer it if Bernie never ran at all so that Hillary could have just ran uncontested and I just can't agree with that.

 

[Fox Mulder]

This might be more convincing if the Republicans weren't about to actually nominate a boogie man.

No one election will ruin America and the world. If the Republicans sweep Washington due to Hillary being a shitty candidate and people not voting, it'll be two years for the midterm swing of the pendulum that happens all the time.

 

[malingenie]

Don't worry about these Bernie Bros. Every time there is a candidate with particularly enthusiastic supporters they make this threat about how if the other candidate becomes the nominee they won't show up at the polls in November, and basically every time it doesn't materialize. It's an empty threat and embarrassing to even have to entertain for all involved.

I agree. But can I spit in their general direction if they are the type that say they will vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nom? The "For the lulz" crowd?

 

[Barzul]

Lets be realistic, people voting for Hillary are voting for the "D" and not anything new she has to offer or has accomplished. Hillary wants this trophy and is willing say anything and move as far left as necessary in her rhetoric as she needs to secure it. The sad thing is that most people know that she is fake as hell and will still vote for her just because she is running under the democratic banner and have been taught to fear the boogie men on the right.

Well when that's your only choice, you pick the most palatable one every time don't you? Condemning this country to potentially 8 years of Donald Trump is not the best outcome. I just hope if she does end up getting the nomination and winning, she can repeal citizen's united.

 

[border]

No one election will ruin America and the world. If the Republicans sweep Washington due to Hillary being a shitty candidate and people not voting, it'll be two years for the midterm swing of the pendulum that happens all the time.

It could only take 2 years to shift the balance of the Supreme Court for decades.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I agree. But can I spit in their general direction if they are the type that say they will vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nom? The "For the lulz" crowd?

Then they might start following you for not being afraid to spit what's on your mind

 

[rjinaz]

I agree. But can I spit in their general direction if they are the type that say they will vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't get the nom? The "For the lulz" crowd?

Yes, and I'll never understand these people. And it's not just Bernie supporters, it's anybody that would vote for Donald J Trump.

 

[Ekai]

It could only take 2 years to shift the balance of the Supreme Court for decades.

The SC is precisely why this election is so important. With the rumor of so many dropping out, a Republican in office would essentially work to regress rights back for everyone by nominating so many hardcore conservatives to the Court in question.
That's precisely why a vote for the D (hee) regardless of who it is is important.

 

[Jetman]

Yea, Hillary is just as bad as Trump... Actually she's worse, imo. Won't vote for either if Bernie doesn't win

I'm seeing a lot of this in my personal and work circles and it worries me. I'm a Bernie Bro, and I've surprisingly seen moderate republicans I work with side with Bernie, but no way are those same guys voting Hillary. Same with my Democratic family.
They site the same witch hunt shit like Benghazi and the email scandal. I know the emails were retroactively classified but I can't get around arguing for why she had a personal server given her position to begin with.
Benghazi I always argue that it was more complicated situation that what we understand and should blame terrorists for the act, not fellow Americans.

How do you guys argue the Benghazi and email points?

 

[Steel]

So now that we're getting into things, what's Trump said or done that's racist?

Trying to keep an internal tally

Muslim ban. Kill the families of terrorists. Oh, and lest we forget, citing an-untrue- story of a general lining up 50 muslims, dipping bullets in pig's blood, and murdering 49 of them to send a message as an example of what we should be doing. "I don't know about white supremacist groups" in response to a question about support from a KKK leader(His father was part of the KKK). Lead the charge on "Obama is a muslim and not an American citizen" birther shit, pushed the idea that Rubio is an anchor baby and not an American citizen because of that. The list goes on and on.

 

[malingenie]

Then they might start following you for not being afraid to spit what's on your mind

Tee-hee! Good one!

 

[Sadsic]

No one election will ruin America and the world. If the Republicans sweep Washington due to Hillary being a shitty candidate and people not voting, it'll be two years for the midterm swing of the pendulum that happens all the time.

the midterm pendulum is permanently stuck to the right until Citizens United is overturned.

 

[Makonero]

I'm seeing a lot of this in my personal and work circles and it worries me. I'm a Bernie Bro, and I've surprisingly seen moderate republicans I work with side with Bernie, but no way are those same guys voting Hillary. Same with my Democratic family.
They site the same witch hunt shit like Benghazi and the email scandal. I know the emails were retroactively classified but I can't get around arguing for why she had a personal server given her position to begin with.
Benghazi I always argue that it was more complicated situation that what we understand and should blame terrorists for the act, not fellow Americans.

How do you guys argue the Benghazi and email points?

I have a thoughtful, intelligent friend who I just can't convince that Hillary isn't a criminal. Everyone I've talked to is talking "lesser of two evils" and depending on how much they give credence to Hillary's scandals, for some of them that's Trump.

On the other hand, one of my good friends recognizes Trump is basically the same cartoon character from the black mirror episode, "The Waldo Moment" and regardless of his feelings about Hillary, he can't ever in good conscience vote for Trump. So at least there's that.

I'm just hoping there's more people like my second friend than the first.

 

[Zyae]

I'm right with you. Hilary isn't my ideal candidate but she doesn't terrify me to the core like the Republican possibilities.

Im with this

 

[higgsboson1997]

Yeah, the Hilary hate is ridiculous. A lot of people are simply focusing minutely on all her negatives and not evaluating her fairly at all.

 

[dave is ok]

Yeah, the Hilary hate is ridiculous. A lot of people are simply focusing minutely on all her negatives and not evaluating her fairly at all.

I don't think it even has anything to do with her. A lot of people don't want an establishment candidate when the establishment has done fuck all for them the past couple decades.

 

[Melkezadek]

I don't think it even has anything to do with her. A lot of people don't want an establishment candidate when the establishment has done fuck all for them the past couple decades.

Which is understandable, but they're not understanding that the effects of a Trump (or anyone on the right ) presidency will extend far beyond a 4 or 8 year term. A lot of the effects impacting minorities, Muslims, and women.

Not voting could halt whatever progress we have made until this point and regress us beyond repair. That is the truth.

 

[Camwi]

The worst are the people who say if they can't vote for Bernie, that they'll vote for Trump, as if that makes any sense politically.

But yeah, as much as I think Clinton will be a pretty lame president, I'd still vote for her just to keep some of these dangerous Republicans away from that much power.

 

[Chococat]

I don't think it even has anything to do with her. A lot of people don't want an establishment candidate when the establishment has done fuck all for them the past couple decades.

I disagree. There is definitely a portion of voters who are sick of establishment candidates. To be more accurate, most people are sick of government just not working. It hard for government to function when one side is willing to work across the aisle, and the other side has a core of supporters that do not want to deal.

The hate machine for Hilary has been going on for 25+ years. Most of that has been from Republicans. And it is the Republicans who have created the narrative that government doesn't work while collecting a paycheck for obstruction.

 

[Future]

No one election will ruin America and the world. If the Republicans sweep Washington due to Hillary being a shitty candidate and people not voting, it'll be two years for the midterm swing of the pendulum that happens all the time.

The world will not get worse but things will be set back. Especially in the Supreme Court, if you want more liberal bias towards progressive issues and law.

People that won't vote at all if Bernie doesn't get the nom seem to not care about the issues and only care about "establishment" rhetoric. Bernie would want ALL of you to vote Hillary instead of trump if given that choice, but in all honesty it's hard to get fucking democrats to turn out to vote in the first place. Too busy whining how no candidate is perfect, their vote is worthless, etc. Meanwhile old out of touch white men will march right into that voting booth and vote republican with consistency

Damn it's annoying being liberal

 

[Russ T]

Damn it's annoying being liberal

Try being a progressive in this backward country.