Street Fighter V |OT2| Another Fight Isn't Coming Your Way!
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
- Status
Give Cammy 50 Life and 50 Stun, and make Hard Arrow -28 on Block.
skLaFarebear
Member
Poltergust
Member
Going over this... Zangief is the only character so far with a win ratio against a character being in the 20s (vs. Dhalsim).
Yikes...
i dont think she needs either really. shes really well balanced. really good footsie tools, good pressure, good damage and some ok shenanigans.
its pretty weird how good they got the balance for the whole cast tbh.
Cammy has pretty shitty move priority.
Interficium
Banned
Except for Chun. Looking at her frame data is depressing unless you play her.
Romars202129
Member
Necalli's HK is his only crush counter though, since HP juggles. I'm good with it honestly, but what if lp disc's guidance was even(or close enough) on block? Just that would be enough. I'd like a better cg, but he doesn't really need it.
Maybe. I'd be okay with that if it were -2 and there was some push back on it. So if the opponent has a super loaded they can punish it on block.
I still think you're really underselling Necalli dude. 5 CC moves isn't bad, even if most of them juggle. You just need to learn when to use which. Also, I may be wrong, but isn't discs guidance relatively safe if you hit it at max distance? It seems to be for me if I hit them with just the tip. Still, it not being safe seems balanced since otherwise I feel like the move would be insanely good.
This definitely has to be the most balanced street fighter on launch to date. No one feels bad, gimmicks are much less oppressive, (but that could be a side effect of the game being new) playing neutral and choosing your moments is really effective in this.
Romars202129
Member
His HK crush counters are his strongest weapon, I wouldn't trade it for anything. It's what makes people think twice and thrice about dping. As for disc's guidance, yeah but I want it abit more braindead I guess lol. At least this way his bad poke problem would be circumvented.
Modes SF5 needs:
- Traditional Arcade Mode w/Ending Cinematic
- Fight Money Matches (FT3/5)
- Goofy Mode where you can have Special Settings like things sped up/slowed down/shit set on fire
- No 30fps Demons in the Stage Background Mode
- 'What If?' Story Mode
- Tournament Mode
- Traditional Arcade Mode w/Ending Cinematic
- Fight Money Matches (FT3/5)
- Goofy Mode where you can have Special Settings like things sped up/slowed down/shit set on fire
- No 30fps Demons in the Stage Background Mode
- 'What If?' Story Mode
- Tournament Mode
The Disc (his only charge move) is incredibly unsafe on block and that applies to every version of it at any range. One advantage it does have is that it can hit people out of the air so it can be used to catch dudes who neutral jump.
FindMyFarms
Member
you wanna run some sets? I use vega
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
I honestly feel like nothing really needs to be changed right now in terms of character balance
except for birdie cr.mp. shit is dumb
skLaFarebear
Member
Needs a bit more. Outside of what you and they mentioned, I would really like the option to select character/stage themes in versus/battle lounge. Also, online training room and the game saving your training room settings would be great too.
Romars202129
Member
No he's right, at it's full range, the attacks fast enough to hit are too far away to land in time.
In practice mode, I could block a ken dp.
Edit, no I'm stupid that doesn't work. But I've noticed regular punishes don't work when I'm spaced
Man, Laura's no meter dizzy combo is insanely high dmg. 214 + HP (charge), 6 + HP, HP, 236 HP... I dunno how much damage it is but it's usually a good 30% of a life bar and requires no meter.
You can't throw escape it. Neutral jump and punish is a good way to beat it though.
You can't throw escape it. Neutral jump and punish is a good way to beat it though.
FormallyFamicom
Member
You can't throw break a command throw, which is what spinning piledriver is. If you expect one, jump, walk back or backdash. You have to predict it though; it is not at all reactable (unless you can visibly see their character fidgeting around as they do the motion lol).
Thanks. There is so much strategy I don't know about this game.
SneakersSO
Member
Go back to yesterday in this thread; I gave a detailed write up as to why Necalli is by far the worst character in the game right now. I've tried running a few new strats with him, and I'm even more convinced of this. Disc's guidance, a charge move intended for him to get in, pales in comparison to Bison's Scissor kicks. His pokes don't even lead to that much damage, unless you get a counter hit. His startup frames on his stomp is high enough to be jabbed out of, something another inside high pressure character doesn't have to deal with (Bison). And, his vskill is mostly useless, since you don't recover anywhere near fast enough to punish a jump-in. And his crush counters outside of st.hk are a joke, since they don't lead to any damage.
Other characters have way more tools than Necalli and some have just as much damage too while also having that versatility.
Not to mention that Birdie's EX Bullhead (QCF+Punch) is safe-ish and allows him to get in for free.
What? I responded to your first write up, but I'll have another go. Disc's guidance is good for getting in, but obviously you can't/shouldn't be spamming it from full screen. There's a reason it has projectile invincibility, so you have to either make a good read or react to a fireball, and with that in mind it's a fantastic tool. I'm not sure why you expect it to just be a free "get in" move.
As for stomp, why would you ever throw one out raw? LK and MK versions are decent for pressure after a blocked normal, and on hit MK stomp can lead to decent damage and knockdown. HK can be good for quick damage after a hit with a heavy move, and can be followed up with EX stomp or HP DP for more damage.
I talked about the V-Skill earlier before too, but it's insanely useful in the right circumstances. Why the heck would you use it when they're close enough to jump in on you anyway? You could say the same thing about fireballs since they're also easy to punish when used up close. Also, 5 CC moves means he's got an answer for multiple situations, and the damage you can get off of them isn't bad considering he's got so many.
Once again, I don't claim to be an expert on the game or even Necalli, but I think it's silly to claim he's bad or the worst character in the game.
I get the feeling that you want the move to be something that it isn't supposed to be. The EX version is very clearly not intended to be a far range punish, just look at how slow it is. I think it's pretty obviously supposed to be for damage, and you should probably only use it as a combo ender.
SneakersSO
Member
Oh yeah! Disc's guidance is also not only one of the few ex moves in the game that is unsafe on block, but it also manages to be one of the few moves where the ex version is actually WORSE at what the move is intended to do, which is mainly to give you a way in as a long distance punish, apparently.
So Necalli has disc's guidance, a move meant to give you a way in as a punish for characters who like chucking plasma. Except, any character with a fireball who has faced Necalli knows this, and doesn't throw fireballs. The ones who do throw fireballs have arching fireballs, which is useless for Necalli's Disc Guidance.
Going back to the inception of charge moves, the whole idea behind that is that a charge is essentially a cooldown of sorts; you can't really spam them the same way you can command input specials. Thats why, historically, charge moves have had better properties in a few key areas, such as Bison's scissor kicks being safe, or Balrog's rush punches being safe on block. So Necalli has a charge move, with none of the benefits of it being a charge move. Fantastic. A move that can be blocked and punished even at max distance is not 'ideal' for getting in. Don't get me started on his EX guidance being good for anything outside of a combo ender.
Stomp should be thrown out in footsies, as its one of the few moves Necalli has that has actual range (they all outrange his normals), move him a little closer to the opponent even on block, and they are pretty safe on block as you pointed out yesterday. Using them in a block string is TERRIBLE, as i've had time & time again shown to me by more experienced players jabbing me out of them on reaction due to all the startup they have. You can even get a great combo extension off of a landed mk stomp, and it doesn't even need to be a counter hit. It not being in a block string but still having start-up frames might confuse the opponent into acting & they frame-trap themselves; it being used in a block string is a dead giveaway as to when to mash jab.
I have had a FANG, no joke, jump from Necalli's max-distance v-skill on a jump in and hit me. It's not far enough at full-screen to ensure that you will be safe. In fact, throwing it out randomly in mid to close range footsies seems to be safer for me in my experience, since my opponent doesn't think I will do it, and at the very least I get them to block it, which means i'm not being punished for it.
Necalli has 5 CC's, but three of them all cause the opponent to enter juggle states where you get very limited options, and they are ALL designed to do that so as to limit the opportunities Necalli can get a max damage combo off an opponent. The fact that those 3 CC's are also 3 of Necalli's better footsie pokes is not a coincidence. And two of those moves, st.hp & cr.hp, hit the opponent in the exact same hurt area; the only difference they have is how much hit stun they cause (cr.hp is higher). St.hk is really his only crush counter worth throwing out, and unless you're doing it at optimal range, its going to get punished.
What Necalli needs, that Bison has, is a way of getting in in footsie range. Notice how Necalli's feet are not on the floor during his dash-in? My first place to start would be to make Necalli immune to low-attacks & sweeps when dashing forward. If Bison can be FULLY INVINCIBLE for that many frames on his dash, than Necalli should have some versatility on getting in on opponents, cause most of Necalli's pokes are already too short changed on range.
Isn't Cammy one of the characters that a lot of pros are earmarking as one of the best in the game?
Romars202129
Member
I'm on ps4... Sofinding your post is needle in hay stack territory, sorry. That said, yeah stomps a combo extender, not a raw attack. Necalli is built to push a character into the corner and murder them. Disc's guidance, ex stomp, ex throw, all these moves seem underwhelming on their own but when you consider his gameplan and the ungodly corner push on all these moves... It starts coming together.
SneakersSO
Member
Ex stomp doesn't have great corner push. Ex Disc's guidance does, and only on hit. However, what sort of tools does Necalli have at corner pressure that make all of the handcuffs he wears design-wise worth it? Is it all the damage? Cause i'd gladly take a damage nerf if it meant giving Necalli some more versatility. R.Mika gets WAY more tools & versatility out of being in the corner than Necalli does, and she has a corner carry ex move that is also safe.
As a Rashid player, the one buff I yearn for is to remove his second "up" kick from his EX air eagle spike, and add it as its own special move.
I want to be able to get in using the EX air eagle spike and combo off it like Cammy with her EX cannon strike in SF4. Being able to do the move from neutral jump would be nice too.
I want to be able to get in using the EX air eagle spike and combo off it like Cammy with her EX cannon strike in SF4. Being able to do the move from neutral jump would be nice too.
Poltergust
Member
It's official
I do think Birdie is top tier and the rest of the characters are below. I mean, he can kill you with literally two combos: I've had some really stupid matches against him with Vega, where I was poking at him endlessly and he destroyed me with two combos and he stayed at 40% health easily. It felt like I hit him 10 times and he hit me twice, no effort whatsoever.
bodeiseifer
Member
『Inaba Resident』;197313061 said:
What's wrong with birdies cr.mp?
beyond_death
Member
Lawl I faced a Ken with over 3000LP whos player Lvl was 13. Knew something was wrong there. Sure enough after I beat him first round he DCed. Atleast he quit early.
Edit: Holy shit I got matched with him again and he DCed when I won. jesus.
_SkyBM_ was his name.
Edit: Holy shit I got matched with him again and he DCed when I won. jesus.
_SkyBM_ was his name.
SolarPowered
Member
Just came back from the most disappointing event of the day. I let a Mika player do his whole taunt hoping to see a full bar grab kill and the little fucker starts playing like normal. I got pretty pissed and whooped him good afterwards.
some people
In other news, I managed to beat normal survival mode with Cammy and Nash. Cammy took two tries and I nearly died against Bison on my second try, but I got it done. She really feels like the kind of character you have to commit with which is scary, but she's actually quite fun. Nash is a prick and I'm not even surprised by what happened. The dude wrecked everyone in a single run. That lunging overhead grab of his, moonsault and f.lk+grab are dirty as fuck. Bison got bopped so hard that even I was feeling whiplash. Scissor kicks are a joke to Nash. Dude blocks, medium punches can use his qcb kick special to punish hard as hell. If you want to get really mean you can just toss sonic booms at him and use appropriate strength moonsault specials to pick him apart that way. What a nasty, guy!
Someone prep the rockets.
some people
In other news, I managed to beat normal survival mode with Cammy and Nash. Cammy took two tries and I nearly died against Bison on my second try, but I got it done. She really feels like the kind of character you have to commit with which is scary, but she's actually quite fun. Nash is a prick and I'm not even surprised by what happened. The dude wrecked everyone in a single run. That lunging overhead grab of his, moonsault and f.lk+grab are dirty as fuck. Bison got bopped so hard that even I was feeling whiplash. Scissor kicks are a joke to Nash. Dude blocks, medium punches can use his qcb kick special to punish hard as hell. If you want to get really mean you can just toss sonic booms at him and use appropriate strength moonsault specials to pick him apart that way. What a nasty, guy!
Indeed
Someone prep the rockets.
Time for Mika and Karin buffs.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Teknopathetic
Member
"The official tier list from that tracking site by winrate:"
Just for anyone who doesn't get it, this is not how tier lists work.
Just for anyone who doesn't get it, this is not how tier lists work.
Absurd priority and hitbox in the ground and in the air. It hits EVERYTHING, EVERYTIME. And the hurtbox is so small you can't hit him with anything. Of course being a MP move it means it's completely safe on block, too.
It's the best antiair of the game by far.
- Status