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This.
So far as I know, personal beliefes must not be mentioned in essays and such, even if the world loves your opinion.
Gamergate convinced an anti-sex trafficking org to join crusade against NoA employee
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So far as I know, personal beliefes must not be mentioned in essays and such, even if the world loves your opinion.
That is where it gets interesting. The Person in charge of the organization seems to have some ties to GG as she has posted on GG forums which once pointed out the topic she started was quickly deleted. She has also by her own admission led a witch hunt against someone else for being a pedophile "accidently when misled"
So the question becomes is she really legitimate or is she a puppet to try and give GG legitimacy.
For those of you who didn't read the whole paper, this would seem to be the part from which they're inferring that she's a pedophile sympathizer:
I don't understand, is she saying people who get found with it shouldn't be punished as harshly as they currently are?
The rest of the paper goes into it more in depth but the argument is that the possession of child porn does not make one a child pornographer or a pedophile just as watching violent movies on TV doesn't make someone violent.
I really don't want to come in with a drive by but this was part of what came to mind for me when reading the thesis:
I personally see where her argument is, if you place it in the realm of media like animation and video games where there is no impact of a living being then your personal views, ethics and morality come into it. As time goes on I definitely feel my view shifting towards a more conservative attitude when representing certain characters in games and when I play certain games or watch certain anime I definitely feel myself becoming more uncomfortable with the situation that some characters are placed in. However, Rapp's thesis, is obviously not pro-paedophilia but rather about redefining what we consider child pornography and whether things like Loli and the like fall into these categories.
I personally see where her argument is, if you place it in the realm of media like animation and video games where there is no impact of a living being then your personal views, ethics and morality come into it. As time goes on I definitely feel my view shifting towards a more conservative attitude when representing certain characters in games and when I play certain games or watch certain anime I definitely feel myself becoming more uncomfortable with the situation that some characters are placed in. However, Rapp's thesis, is obviously not pro-paedophilia but rather about redefining what we consider child pornography and whether things like Loli and the like fall into these categories.
I've been thinking about it, and I think it boils down to fear.
There is a tendency across the board for gamers to be perceived as social outcasts; that's not entirely untrue; I'd say I'm pretty borderline on it myself. I think there's some, though, who've felt rejected by society a bit and embraced the label; gaming is a place For Them, and they feel safe there. Trouble is, that has also led to gaming becoming very insular and exclusionary. And now, as interest in it has increased beyond the traditional 'gaming fandom', there's been calls for lots of things that chip away at those walls, and games are being released that challenge that ivory tower.
Gaming is evolving, and they're fearful that the thing that was there for them throughout the times when they've felt ostracised from society is going away. I can, to some extent, empathise with that. I've had a safety net torn away, and it's terrifying.
The problem is that these gamers are also internet-savvy - and so, rather than having to accept it, they've been able to, well, mobilise. One person who's fearful of change will eventually have to move with it and - hopefully - adapt and change for the better, and become a healthier member of society. A hundred people, though, all with similar fears, stuck in the same echo chamber, and with the power to use their tools and talents to fight back... are doing this. I would suggest that in the minds of many of them, this is an ideological war, waged against those who they perceive as taking arms against their world.
Basically, I think we're somewhere in the middle of the second half of The Wall right now, but with the drug-induced haze actually being enacted for real in the digital environment where they are capable of doing that sort of thing.
so woman writes a thesis on how laws to protect children from abuse actually do little to protect children from abuse and they curtail the symptoms rather than dealing with the cause.
Gets spun to be made out to be pro CP
wat
seriously what, these guys have such a two dimensional view on child exploitation and paedophiles. and they then go and abuse this woman who wrote this with the ultimate goal of reducing such problems
wat
Gets spun to be made out to be pro CP
wat
seriously what, these guys have such a two dimensional view on child exploitation and paedophiles. and they then go and abuse this woman who wrote this with the ultimate goal of reducing such problems
wat
Often, when i read Gamergate stuff i tend to laugh how ridiculous they are.
But this ? Moving transexual people in Antartica to see if they are useful ? No, you can't get rid of them that way, you need to kill them ? Just pushing one to suicide is good enough to make a difference ?
What the actual fuck ? It's horrible ! They are like worst than stereotypical villain in video game... I didn't even KNEW it was possible !
FallenGrace
Member
I have been living in ignorance of GamerGate, I'd seen it mentioned here but never really understood what it was until reading through links and bits on this thread.
It makes me feel sick. I wish I'd never found out about this. It makes me feel like human society is going backwards.
It makes me feel sick. I wish I'd never found out about this. It makes me feel like human society is going backwards.
Gamer gate is comprised of terrible people who do nothing but harass others. Largely women.
Zambayoshi
Member
She's saying possessing child porn shouldn't be criminalized. So if you are caught with a stack of child porn in your house you shouldn't be arrested or charged with anything.
For fairness' sake, she is also saying that creation and distribution of child porn are a another matter entirely.
JasonUresti
Member
So sad. Like the original story that started this whole Gamegate thing rolling, if you shut off the noise coming from both sides and actually do a little reading or investigating (used very loosely) you quickly find that its a non-issue.
I realize many have their hearts in the right place, but posting insults and sarcasm and demanding silence from gg or alleged gg people only creates more noise and creates an impression that can be used as "evidence" that people are trying to censor the "truth". That in turn can lead to the more inattentive or impressionable into being swallowed up.
You cant truly combat willful ignorance, but you can corral it and keep it clearly and plainly shown as such, and stop it from pulling the merely ignorant into its muffling embrace.
I realize many have their hearts in the right place, but posting insults and sarcasm and demanding silence from gg or alleged gg people only creates more noise and creates an impression that can be used as "evidence" that people are trying to censor the "truth". That in turn can lead to the more inattentive or impressionable into being swallowed up.
You cant truly combat willful ignorance, but you can corral it and keep it clearly and plainly shown as such, and stop it from pulling the merely ignorant into its muffling embrace.
openrob
Member
I'm doing Political Theory at the moment, and TBH, her essay (after skimming it) is more an argument against moral universalism than anything else. Then she is just following that to it's logical conclusion in regards to this subject.
That is how this thing works. She also covers cultural imperialism, and advocacy of plurality of law, and evidenced based policy creation.
It was an interesting read.
As much as I like Alison, I saw that coming since the last few weeks.
Not with the involvement of gamergate and not on that precise topic, but I had the feeling she will eventually get some shit back.
Since the beginning of the year I think she loose control over what's going around her and her twitter account. She is strong-minded, and like to speak about some highly sensible topics. The Fire Emblem/Treehouse recent events doesn't help either. There you got the recipe for shit.
Putting a disclaimer like "my opinions are my owns, not my employer's" means nothing. 95% of her followers follows her because she works at Nintendo.
She should have temporary slow down her interactions on twitter, and maybe even deactivate it while she is on holidays. I still recommend to do that. The situation is only going worse and I doubt anyone can control that.
Not with the involvement of gamergate and not on that precise topic, but I had the feeling she will eventually get some shit back.
Since the beginning of the year I think she loose control over what's going around her and her twitter account. She is strong-minded, and like to speak about some highly sensible topics. The Fire Emblem/Treehouse recent events doesn't help either. There you got the recipe for shit.
Putting a disclaimer like "my opinions are my owns, not my employer's" means nothing. 95% of her followers follows her because she works at Nintendo.
She should have temporary slow down her interactions on twitter, and maybe even deactivate it while she is on holidays. I still recommend to do that. The situation is only going worse and I doubt anyone can control that.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Perhaps that would have been for the best if only for her sake, but let's not suggest that this is a reasonable response to anything she's said. She could have said all of nothing and had this happen. She shouldn't have to just poof off of the Internet to avoid harassment.
Are you blaming her for this?
Isn't suppressing her views exactly what GG wants?
No, I say at some point, you know things can go badly on internet, and you can't control that even if you have done nothing wrong. Your only choice if you don't want things to become even worse is to step down temporary.
I'm not blaming her, I'm just saying I'm not surprised to see things turning like this, and every fuel she will give now can only make things worse.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So she should go on hiatus from social media - the goal of the people harassing her - and inherently cause them to be more emboldened to harass others?
Darkstorne
Member
Oh my god the very first line of her article:
"One can hardly mention child pornography, even as a subject of serious academic research, without receiving questioning, fearful, or even disgusted looks."
So congrats GamerGate. You not only proved your own ignorance by failing to read the article, you also proved Alison Rapp's opening point with terrifying accuracy.
"One can hardly mention child pornography, even as a subject of serious academic research, without receiving questioning, fearful, or even disgusted looks."
So congrats GamerGate. You not only proved your own ignorance by failing to read the article, you also proved Alison Rapp's opening point with terrifying accuracy.
*Reads thread title*
What the fuck?
*Reads opening post*
WHAT THE FUCK?
What is wrong with people? How can someone become so salty they think harassing and throwing libel against a person is a good or honorable use of their time? I legit don't understand how some people's brains work some time. I hope Ms. Rapp comes out of this incident with her sanity intact
What the fuck?
*Reads opening post*
WHAT THE FUCK?
What is wrong with people? How can someone become so salty they think harassing and throwing libel against a person is a good or honorable use of their time? I legit don't understand how some people's brains work some time. I hope Ms. Rapp comes out of this incident with her sanity intact
A Link to the Past
Banned
And they don't even care either. GG is infamous for defending consumption of child pornography. Ironically in the same breath pretty much, they defended 8chan having a board devoted to CP and filed a complaint to the FBI about a guy who posted censored pictures from that board to prove that it was happening and claiming that he possessed CP.
ebullientprism
Member
Whats the alternative to this though? I mean we have seen what happens to people who stay online and fight. The campaign of harassment basically becomes their entire life. Everything from threatening calls to bomb hoaxes to character assassination. And what does it accomplish? Most of these assholes are still doing what they were doing last year and the year before. I dont think anyone has gone to jail.
It may be letting the bad guys win, but honestly I wouldnt blame anyone for going offline if this happens. And if it was happening to someone I cared about and liked thats what I would advise them.
Its unfair but you cant ask someone to let this become their entire life for the forseeable future.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
Don't be silly. Nobody balmed the victim.
You're missing the whole point: Nintendo is a business. You know well how uptight business is.
If you piss off your employee you're going to have a bad time. That's a fact.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The only people asking her to do anything are the people saying "take a hiatus!" If she takes a hiatus, fine. But she apparently doesn't want to, and unless you plan on telling her to get off Twitter personally, you're speaking to air.
What are you talking about? The only people she pissed off are emotionally stunted adults.
Hot Coldman
Banned
NoA is no doubt smarter than to get tricked by this. But fuck these over-conservative wanks. Get a job, weirdoes.
Why do people blame the internet? Blame the social media companies that don't seem to care enough about hate speech, harassment or slander. Or more importantly, blame the culprits.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
For those of you who didn't read the whole paper, this would seem to be the part from which they're inferring that she's a pedophile sympathizer:
What I get from that is that she differentiates between drawn and real child pornography, as in e.g. owning pictures of sexual acts with minors in genres like lolicon and shotacon should not be punished as much (if at all) as REAL children being photographed/filmed while performing the same acts as the drawn material.
So basically differentiating between fictional and real acts child pornography.
And I can totally understand that. Drawings are drawings. Fantasies or ideas put on paper. Fictional. Not real.
No one is actually harmed (only offended on an ethical level at most).
Being into lolicon/shotacon does not a child molester make.
Of course, this is totally subjective on my part, so you don't have to agree with me.
I can see where the accusations come from (it is relatively ambiously worded on her part in that paper) and I might even be wrong in my interpretation of that short excempt, but please don't throw a fit just because I wouldn't put someone in jail for the sole reason that he or she is into drawings of young boys/girls engaging in concensual or non-concensual sexual activities.
Perfect post.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Pretty much. Her argument I think can also be framed as pro-freedom of speech where such speech doesn't necessarily have the actual relation to a given crime (in this case, child abuse and molestation) that given authorities (in this case, the United Nations, particularly western members) would claim, because such falls in line with their own cultural and moral beliefs, rather than reality.
Now, the nature of that reality is of course subject to debate itself, and Rapp's views in relation to that another matter, but... yeah, not something she should really be fired over.
Here's hoping Nintendo nips this in the bud before the story gets any bigger (which hopefully, it can't anyway), because more mainstream media would fixate on the accusation of 'pedophilia' more than anything else, as would its audience, rather than reading the thesis itself.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
A poster above us said that she was naiive to express her strong opinion and that the backlash was pretty obvious.
Nobody would care about a random girl's opinion. But since she's a Nintendo's employee her opinion have consequences for the company too.
Do you think her employee would be happy to be on news and associated with child-pornography?
GG knows to strike where it hurts the most. That's disgusting but what can you do?
She put her own job at risk with her vocal opinion and that's a fact.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm sure if she made comments about how shit the Klan is, they could theoretically target her too.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
You're going to have to be more clear on this. Are you saying that Gamergate is a non-issue? Or the harassment of women is a non-issue?
I know right or paraphrasing Heller "The country was in peril; she was jeopardizing her traditional rights of freedom and independence by daring to exercise them.
Don't speak to hate groups like GG, just cower from them, live in fear.
So is this the most a gender studies thesis has ever actually been read you reckon?
yes, her vocal opinion from the time she was in academia and wrote a thesis
yes, her vocal opinion from the time she was in academia and wrote a thesis
lensoftruth
Member
As if Nintendo would give a fuck about what a couple of Internet knob heads think
Earthpainting
Member
I hope she stays strong, and Nintendo of America isn't going to wrong her to keep their hands clean. She's been on the receiving end up a lot of harassment in the last half year, usually for the most nonsensical reasons. I can understand that Nintendo may not want to be associated with any of this, especially when the words "paedophilia" are involved, but I think they need to take a firm stance and speak out against this stuff. All of this GamerGate stuff has been going on for far too long, and some public condemnations from big publishers wouldn't be out of place. Nintendo is one of the few publishers that openly markets to women, and so I think it would be in their best interests to get involved here.
I assume he means the original Quinn story that lead into Gamergate was a non-issue. Not just because the personal life drama wasn't our business, but also because the review allegations were pretty thoroughly proven to be inaccurate within days.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Another thing people need to understand is that if NoA fires Allison, that communicates only that GamerGate can get anyone they want fired from NoA.
What is the Notch stuff?
What is the Notch stuff?
chaobreaker
Member
He made some tweets implying he was always a GGer but was afraid to admit it, then asked his SJW followers to unfollow him. Then he flip-flops and claim he's a SJW and want GG's to unfollow him.
To make a long story short: He's bored in his expensive mansion with nothing to do and decided to stir up some "both sides are bad but not me" BS.
R_thanatos
Member
I was legit confused just before clicking on this thread and got even more confused reading the first post. Then reading the tread i'm not confused BUT i don't understand how something so stupid can happen so many times in a row
All of this is a giant snowball of chaos and self-destruction that should have melted under the sun months ago.
"WHY is this still a thing ?"
All of this is a giant snowball of chaos and self-destruction that should have melted under the sun months ago.
"WHY is this still a thing ?"
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