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[jgwhiteus]

Series of what seem like pretty fascinating interviews by the Atlantic with President Obama on his various foreign policy decisions and views; link to the Atlantic's series below, and a summary by the N.Y. Times:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/10/world/middleeast/obama-criticizes-the-free-riders-among-americas-allies.html

In a series of interviews with The Atlantic magazine published Thursday, Mr. Obama said a number of American allies in the Persian Gulf — as well as in Europe — were “free riders,” eager to drag the United States into grinding sectarian conflicts that sometimes had little to do with American interests. He showed little sympathy for the Saudis, who have been threatened by the nuclear deal Mr. Obama reached with Iran.

Mr. Obama’s frustration with much of the Arab world is not new, but rarely has he been so blunt about it. He placed his comments in the context of his broader struggle to extract the United States from the bloody morass of the Middle East so that the nation can focus on more promising, faster-growing parts of the world, like Asia and Latin America.

Mr. Obama, who has spoken regularly to Mr. Goldberg about Israel and Iran, granted him extraordinary access. The portrait that emerges from the interviews is of a president openly contemptuous of Washington’s foreign-policy establishment, which he said was obsessed with preserving presidential credibility, even at the cost of blundering into ill-advised military adventures.

“There’s a playbook in Washington that presidents are supposed to follow,” Mr. Obama said. “And the playbook prescribes responses to different events, and these responses tend to be militarized responses.” This consensus, the president continued, can lead to bad decisions. “In the midst of an international challenge like Syria,” he said, “you are judged harshly if you don’t follow the playbook, even if there are good reasons.

Although Mr. Obama’s tone was introspective, he engaged in little second-guessing. He dismissed the argument that his failure to enforce the red line in Syria, or his broader reticence about using military force, had emboldened Russia. Mr. Putin, he noted, invaded Georgia in 2008 during the presidency of George W. Bush, even though the United States had more than 100,000 troops deployed in Iraq.

The president refused to box himself in as a foreign-policy thinker. “I suppose you could call me a realist in believing we can’t, at any given moment, relieve all the world’s misery,” he said. But he went on to describe himself as an internationalist and an idealist. Above all, Mr. Obama appeared weary of the constant demands and expectations placed on the United States. “Free riders aggravate me,” he said.

He put France and Britain in that category, at least as far as the Libya operation was concerned. Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain, he said, became distracted by other issues, while President Nicolas Sarkozy of France “wanted to trumpet the flights he was taking in the air campaign, despite the fact that we had wiped out all the air defenses.”

Only on the threat posed by the Islamic State did Mr. Obama express some misgivings. He likened ISIS to the Joker in “The Dark Knight,” the 2008 Batman movie. The Middle East, Mr. Obama said, was like Gotham, a corrupt metropolis controlled by a cartel of thugs. “Then the Joker comes in and lights the whole city on fire,” Mr. Obama said. “ISIL is the Joker,” he added, using the government’s preferred acronym for the Islamic State.

 

[GhostTrick]

Free Riders ? What does he mean ?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Calling the MIddle-East, Gothan, and ISIL its Joker is not a comparison I expected from a President.

Free Riders ? What does he mean ?

It says what he means. In the Libya Operation he feels the US is doing the work while Britain is distracted and France is just flying around in jets pretending to do something against a force with very limited to no air defense. Can't say how accurate it is, I'm not caught up on that situation.

 

[SolarPowered]

Obama is too damn good for this country.

Mr. Obama’s frustration with much of the Arab world is not new, but rarely has he been so blunt about it. He placed his comments in the context of his broader struggle to extract the United States from the bloody morass of the Middle East so that the nation can focus on more promising, faster-growing parts of the world, like Asia and Latin America.

YES PLEASE

 

[Busty]

Calling the MIddle-East, Gothan, and ISIL its Joker is not a comparison I expected from a President.

Seriously. That's the sort of political comparison I'd expect to see on fucking Reddit.

 

[Trey]

Free Riders ? What does he mean ?

America is the big brother they call to give the bullies nuggies.

 

[javac]

Obama got Batman V Superman on his mind.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Mr. Obama’s frustration with much of the Arab world is not new, but rarely has he been so blunt about it. He placed his comments in the context of his broader struggle to extract the United States from the bloody morass of the Middle East so that the nation can focus on more promising, faster-growing parts of the world, like Asia and Latin America.

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

 

[Maxim726X]

Calling the MIddle-East, Gothan, and ISIL its Joker is not a comparison I expected from a President.



It says what he means. In the Libya Operation he feels the US is doing the work while Britain is distracted and France is just flying around in jets pretending to do something against a force with very limited to no air defense. Can't say how accurate it is, I'm not caught up on that situation.

According to the last statistics I read, he's correct. The US is doing all the heavy lifting, again, why the EU is barely doing anything.

 

[raphier]

Joker is too sympathetic, Isis is not.

 

[Morat]

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

This is true.

 

[entremet]

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

Israel is basically the US's attack dog in that region.

It's a mutually beneficial thing. This narrative that Israel forces the hand of US foreign policy is a fallacy.

 

[bud23]

Trump = ?

 

[PeskyToaster]

Free Riders ? What does he mean ?

He means other countries don't carry their own weight when it comes to joint operations.

 

[Mac@NeoGAF]

What does he mean ?

Who cares, he couldn't even fix any of Americas problems never mind anywhere outside it.

He's yesterdays news and on his way out.

The world has Donald or Hilary to look forward to now...can't wait.

 

[User 73706]

Who cares, he couldn't even fix any of Americas problems never mind anywhere outside it.

He's yesterdays news and on his way out.

The world has Donald or Hilary to look forward to now...can't wait.

lmao

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Israel is basically the US's attack dog in that region.

It's a mutually beneficial thing. This narrative that Israel forces the hand of US foreign policy is a fallacy.

I'm talking about in terms of Obama saying he wants out of the Arab World. That can't happen with Israel being such a big player in US politics and foreign policy. As much as he might want to focus on other areas, the US will always find themselves pulled back to the Arab World and that's primarily because of the pull Israel.

 

[Verelios]

Who cares, he couldn't even fix any of Americas problems never mind anywhere outside it.

He's yesterdays news and on his way out.

The world has Donald or Hilary to look forward to now...can't wait.

Ayyyyyy

Haha, let me know how that works.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

Which Obama has been not so subtly trying to move away from.

I remember reading articles about how Israel military build up was nothing more than a bluff to force Obama to do a pre-emptive strike on Iran, which Obama's administration got wind of which ironically made the Iran deal an absolutely top priority.

 

[Diablos]

Who cares, he couldn't even fix any of Americas problems never mind anywhere outside it.

He's yesterdays news and on his way out.

The world has Donald or Hilary to look forward to now...can't wait.

Obama has done a lot for this country. I think you are too young to remember the Bush years, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Mac@NeoGAF]

Haha, let me know how that works.

We already know, one will act like an asshole because he is, the other will act like an asshole just to try and prove she's as tough as any man.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

He means other countries don't carry their own weight when it comes to joint operations.

Most of europe can't carry their weight compared to the Us military, firstly because the Us military is so vast but secondly because european leaders have spent the last 20 or 30 years ever decreasing budgets for militaries, making poor decisions on new contracts for hardware whilst all the while demanding increased tackling of global terrorism

basically the everyones military is disproportionate to some degree - btu he is right with the EU leaders

Is there any chance he could come to the Uk and run for Primeminister? or head of the EU and do a term or two with us the go back to the US for a third term?

If silly american's don't realise how good he is, the rest of the world would gladly take him

 

[shem935]

We already know, one will act like an asshole because he is, the other will act like an asshole just to try and prove she's as tough as any man.

As deep as the puddles in my driveway.

 

[jelly]

There is probably some truth to the free riders thing but you know the US went in big after 9/11 then Iraq and the rest is history. Countries don't have massive military machines like the US, Britain was there to help but they are skilful but archaic in most regards, underfunded and wasteful. I think the worst thing is Saudi, Israel, all the proxy wars just stirring the pot from all sides. The US doesn't have to get involved if they don't want to. I still don't know what the hell Europe was doing in Libya, that was daft, they definitely went for a day out then ignored it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Free Riders ? What does he mean ?

Heavily reliant on the US military for certain capabilities. The article mentions that the US air power suppressed enemy air defenses allowing the French to operate with impunity. There's also the pretty famous incident in Libya where the NATO allies started running critically short of precision munitions and asked additional for American strikes to fill the gaps.

Europe can get away with spending comparably small sums on their militaries because they are protected under the US nuclear umbrella, are in NATO and thus protected by the threat of American intervention, and when they do fight in wars outside of their own borders they are almost always fighting alongside America and can rely on it to take care of the more advanced stuff.

 

[Coriolanus]

He placed his comments in the context of his broader struggle to extract the United States from the bloody morass of the Middle East so that the nation can focus on more promising, faster-growing parts of the world, like Asia and Latin America.

Oh yes. That's what latin america wants. More US fuckery. Yes sir. Because we didn't get enough of it the other times they tried.

 

[KodaRuss]

I need to read the entire article but those quotes that you put in are kinda... dumb? Not sure how else to put it. What is helpful about calling France and UK freeriders? And now the Middle East is Gotham... so who is our batman?

 

[Trojita]

Is there any chance he could come to the Uk and run for Primeminister? or head of the EU and do a term or two with us the go back to the US for a third term?

If silly american's don't realise how good he is, the rest of the world would gladly take him

Term Limits

 

[Arnie7]

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

Bingo. America should just focus on improving their own citizens life's and emerging economies.

Imagine if the American army was turned into peacekeeping and humanitarian work. Africa would be transformed.

 

[Erevador]

Is there any chance he could come to the Uk and run for Primeminister? or head of the EU and do a term or two with us the go back to the US for a third term?

If silly american's don't realise how good he is, the rest of the world would gladly take him

We do realize how good he is, that's why he's won every election he's ever run in.

 

[benicillin]

If term limits weren't a thing I'd happily vote Obama in for a third term. One of the smartest guys around, it's going to be fascinating getting a look into his presidency once he's retired.

 

[effzee]

My biggest regret about Obama, and politics in general as I grow along with these issues, is that the ME mes was never fixed but partially because the political machine in DC (both parties) don't want it fixed.

The issues stem primarily from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which the US is certainly not capable of fixing or interested in at times. Yet we support Israel no matter what even in the face of their atrocities.

Add to that randomly backing brutal dictators while promoting democracy all in the guise of "American interests" and you realize this won't be resolved...ever. Not as long as the US has "interests" in the region and they throw support behind governments/dictators regardles of their character.

Thanks Obama

 

[magnificent83]

“Having said that,” he continued, “I also believe that the world is a tough, complicated, messy, mean place, and full of hardship and tragedy. And in order to advance both our security interests and those ideals and values that we care about, we’ve got to be hardheaded at the same time as we’re bighearted, and pick and choose our spots, and recognize that there are going to be times where the best that we can do is to shine a spotlight on something that’s terrible, but not believe that we can automatically solve it. There are going to be times where our security interests conflict with our concerns about human rights. There are going to be times where we can do something about innocent people being killed, but there are going to be times where we can’t.”

From the article and can't say I disagree one bit.

 

[Weckum]

It says what he means. In the Libya Operation he feels the US is doing the work while Britain is distracted and France is just flying around in jets pretending to do something against a force with very limited to no air defense. Can't say how accurate it is, I'm not caught up on that situation.

Meanwhile, France is taking care of Mali and CAR basically on its own (talking about Western powers intervening here, not AU or other African forces).

 

[Vicetrailia]

Wish he could get a third term.

 

[Silexx]

I'm not surprised he didn't lump in Canada given that he probably doesn't want to make tonight's State Dinner too awkward.

 

[Kenshin001]

The US will never leave the Arab world so long as Israel keeps pulling the leash on its foreign policy.

Right. Has nothing to do with the millions of barrels of crude oil the US imports from the region every year. That Iran deal was clearly Israel pulling the leash.

 

[thefro]

I need to read the entire article but those quotes that you put in are kinda... dumb? Not sure how else to put it. What is helpful about calling France and UK freeriders? And now the Middle East is Gotham... so who is our batman?

It's a long but great read. This is what he really thinks privately as part of a long interview.

We do realize how good he is, that's why he's won every election he's ever run in.

Not in 2000

 

[antispin]

I'm going to miss this guy.

 

[Kibbles]

Big Don = Batman?

 

[Pyroclastic]

We do realize how good he is, that's why he's won every election he's ever run in.

didn't win when ran for the house of representatives in 2000

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Right. Has nothing to do with the millions of barrels of crude oil the US imports from the region every year. That Iran deal was clearly Israel pulling the leash.

Sure, but there's also the fact that the US was actually the biggest exporter of crude oil before certain nations decided to collapse the price and make fracking an unattractive prospect.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-biggest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi

 

[shintoki]

Thank you, let's fuck out of the Middle East. They don't want us and we don't want them. All we've done is make it worse with supporting Israeli

 

[Dennis]

American President: "Why can't you Europeans be as warmongering as us?"

Europe can get away with spending comparably small sums on their militaries because they are protected under the US nuclear umbrella

The UK and France has nuclear weapons.

 

[shintoki]

The UK and France has nuclear weapons.

Russia has more than both of them combined several times over. The only one on par is the US.

 

[Optimusdouche]

It's kinda weird not to mention Israel as the one that really keeps American in the middle east.

Down to the Iraq War, it has all been down to Israel's lobbying. Yea, Obama has been the only president to stand up to Israel just a little but, but next President it will be business as usual.

 

[Lagamorph]

Conveniently forgetting it was his predecessor that basically dragged Europe into the middle east mess to begin with. If Obama wants to roundabout blame someone for the shitfest the middle East has become he needs to look way closer to home, not Europe.

 

[Dennis]

Russia has more than both of them combined several times over. The only one on par is the US.

Who cares, they have more than enough to make a nuclear confrontation a game ender for anyone involved.

 

[Mac@NeoGAF]

Russia has more than both of them combined several times over. The only one on par is the US.

The UK & France have enough to stop Russia from doing anything stupid and that's all that is needed.

 

[Optimusdouche]

Right. Has nothing to do with the millions of barrels of crude oil the US imports from the region every year. That Iran deal was clearly Israel pulling the leash.

LOL, you mention like the one Middle East deal Israel was against, to say nothing of the literally thousands of pieces of legislation they have drafted and influenced. Yea, Obama seems to be the only president who stood up to Israel a little.

But otherwise, Israel influences and controls American foreign policy on the Middle East. Same in Britain. No one was pushing America to take out Assad more than Israel, not even Saudi. No one was pushing for the Iraq War more than Israel. No one was pushing against the Iran deal more than Israel. And if Hillary comes into power I expect her to continue to do Israel's bidding, as she has signaled she will. I don't think she will let Russia dictate what happens.

And considering all the troops Obama has sent all over the world, especially Africa, and considering how he has made JSOC into a crazy killing machine, a lot of what he says is pretty dishonest. Seems like he has just made some shrewd decisions to protect his legacy.