Pai Pai Master
Banned
And yes fuck this line so much. Worst in the movie.
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Captain America: Civil War - Final Trailer
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And yes fuck this line so much. Worst in the movie.
MCU movies always remind of those old 80's TV shows like the A-team where bullets are flying everywhere and explosions are going off but no one ever dies or even gets hurt.
I really enjoyed Age of Ultron. I thought it was a fun movie, and Ultron was awesome. Casting Spader was a great choice as well.
I thought Ultron was an interesting villain in the movie. Very different from the usual murder bots we get. He was less, er, robotic, and had more personality and a quirkiness to him that makes perfect sense considering that he seemed to be modeled after Stark's almost sardonic personality. Or maybe Ultron was a more sardonic version of Stark? Maybe that's it.
And who's to say that Ultron didn't seed himself somewhere on the earth, and when he saw that his plan was failing, he retreated. And is it really clear that the Vision actually destroyed that final Ultron? I always got the impression that two things happened at the end of Age of Ultron: The Vision didn't kill Ultron, and instead maybe absorbed him into his own consciousness, and Ultron had another, weaker version of himself squirreled away somewhere in the net that will eventually show up again.
I can totally see Ultron returning at a later date to menace whoever the new crop of Avengers are after Infinity War. Being a robot is one of the few times where a villain can return multiple times, and not have the audience go, "Wait, he was dead!"
I thought Ultron was an interesting villain in the movie. Very different from the usual murder bots we get. He was less, er, robotic, and had more personality and a quirkiness to him that makes perfect sense considering that he seemed to be modeled after Stark's almost sardonic personality. Or maybe Ultron was a more sardonic version of Stark? Maybe that's it.
And who's to say that Ultron didn't seed himself somewhere on the earth, and when he saw that his plan was failing, he retreated. And is it really clear that the Vision actually destroyed that final Ultron? I always got the impression that two things happened at the end of Age of Ultron: The Vision didn't kill Ultron, and instead maybe absorbed him into his own consciousness, and Ultron had another, weaker version of himself squirreled away somewhere in the net that will eventually show up again.
I can totally see Ultron returning at a later date to menace whoever the new crop of Avengers are after Infinity War. Being a robot is one of the few times where a villain can return multiple times, and not have the audience go, "Wait, he was dead!"
Didn't Whedon or Hemsworth say the line wasn't even written as a quip, but the audience reaction effectively made it into one?
I don't think it's especially finicky to think that having a character suddenly speak in Shakespearean English when he hasn't before would be weird. And "Ultron, we would have words with you" doesn't quite have the punch to it, but maybe I'm just too used to the original line.
Glass Rebel
Member
I disagree. Too often AoU felt like they were just trying to out-quip each other instead of having actual conversations. Whedon knows how to write dialogue that is both funny and good but he went completely overboard there. The first Avengers was better in this regard. I know, people love it and I laugh at Whedon dialogue as well but it needs to have a purpose as well.
The "language" exchange between Tony and Steve in the beginning for example. Is it funny? For sure. But what does it achieve? Absolutely nothing. Or Thor's report on the Hulk. Again, funny for sure but it also kills the intimate moment between Banner and Natasha. Ultron is particularly bad at times and it becomes very apparent when you compare it to the scenes where he actually comes off as legit terrifying and unstable. The scene where they go to Klaw started off pretty well and then Tony and company arrive and they drop that omelette line. I guess that's what you get when you base Ultron off Tony's personality. I don't have a problem with these jokes taken by themselves but they set a certain tone and it takes away from the more serious moments.
Still, I liked AoU well enough but I think other movies walked the line better.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yup. If I recall the sound mixing guys on the raimi spider films got nominated for an academy award for 1 & 2.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
The two Avenger movies have the issue of it being so clear Joss Whedon wrote them. Whedon seems to only really do the 'constant wisecracks' type writing well, which may be why Tony is always front and center in the two movies as he's the typical Whedon character. I love Buffy and Buffy is basically just the characters trading quips with genuine dramatic moments inbetween which works quite well.
It was okay with Avengers, but Age of Ultron basically had the issue of this being up to eleven. Everyone was just making joke after joke, not just Tony but Steve and other moderately serious characters. Even on Sokovia, they were all making snap remarks which killed the drama.
If the heroes aren't worried about the destruction and are as happy go lucky as ever, why should the audience be?
There are other issues too. Bruce and Natasha was the worst idea and seemed like Whedon wanted to pair the hot girl with the nerdy guy despite the fact when we left off with the two the fact Bruce nearly murdered her as Hulk was very evident. Clint is honestly still the most boring character ever in the MCU (who the fuck thinks giving the guy a family would have made him interesting) which sucks given comic Clint is relatively awesome.
Also his terrible as fuck writing of Steve. Winter Soldiers show us Steve has adjusted fairly well to modern life and doesn't display much 1940 customs aside from the fossil jab by Nat in the beginning which was light teasing, but "OH-NO LOL STEVE SAYS NO TO BAD LANGUAGE".
It was okay with Avengers, but Age of Ultron basically had the issue of this being up to eleven. Everyone was just making joke after joke, not just Tony but Steve and other moderately serious characters. Even on Sokovia, they were all making snap remarks which killed the drama.
If the heroes aren't worried about the destruction and are as happy go lucky as ever, why should the audience be?
There are other issues too. Bruce and Natasha was the worst idea and seemed like Whedon wanted to pair the hot girl with the nerdy guy despite the fact when we left off with the two the fact Bruce nearly murdered her as Hulk was very evident. Clint is honestly still the most boring character ever in the MCU (who the fuck thinks giving the guy a family would have made him interesting) which sucks given comic Clint is relatively awesome.
Also his terrible as fuck writing of Steve. Winter Soldiers show us Steve has adjusted fairly well to modern life and doesn't display much 1940 customs aside from the fossil jab by Nat in the beginning which was light teasing, but "OH-NO LOL STEVE SAYS NO TO BAD LANGUAGE".
Pai Pai Master
Banned
They're fine showing bad guys dying in pretty horrible ways, but if it's a civilian than they seemingly have to write in some way to keep then alive. It actually reminds me of watching DBZ on Toonami and they always had to throw some line into the dub about how all the people survived, or the people in charge of censorship would actually add a parachute into the scene if a plane gets destroyed or something.
Which is fine for the most part, these are family movies after all. But it does take away from the climax when you go through so many hoops to avoid showing people coming to harm. IIRC, the only time they ever show innocents being serioisly harmed in AOU is in Dr. Cho's lab.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I could buy that. I remember reading that a decent number of people who were actually adopted or had adopted disliked the line intensely for the implications there.
Nah man, that line was great. Well timed, good delivery, and always gets a chuckle. It works because it doesn't come across as the character trying to be funny but is funny anyway.
I didn't mind the quips in AoU in the first half of the movie but they got progressively worse as the movie went on. Stuff like "You didn't finish!," "You and Banner better not be playing hide the zucchini," "relax shellhead," "with the benefit off hindsight," etc. came across as trying way too hard with unfunny, unoriginal material. One or two missed would have been fine but it eventually became obnoxious.
The only lines in the first Avengers think don't work that well as quippy jokes are Loki's "I'm listening" and Widow's "I don't see how that's a party"
Cap has been picking this damn fight every time they have been together.
this is true, everyone gets on Tony's back for not being a self-righteous boyscout, but ever since Avengers 1, Steve has been trying to pick a fight with him
My greatest dislike for whedon is how he completely fucked Steve character in AoU.
Glass Rebel
Member
Yes, how dare Steve try to stop Tony from doing the same thing that brought Ultron to life.
I always wondered if that was meant to be a dick joke or a green dick joke.
Tony for better or worse is a clear representatiom of the 21st century. I get why Steve would instantly friction with somebody like him.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I think the character arc is fine, and he has some great subtle moments in the film. I liked how clearly uncomfortable he was learning that Clint was able to have a family for himself, something he thought he wasn't capable of. But his dialogue and action in the movie was mostly crap.
I never understood the disdain for the language joke. It was less about Cap being stuck in the past and more the line slipping out as a knee-jerk reaction which is why he gets teased for it. He knows it actually wasn't a big deal.
Glass Rebel
Member
The Cap vs. Ultron fight on top of the truck was pretty lame. Too many cuts away from the action that could have been used to show how powerful Ultron really is. Bucky did more damage to Steve in Winter Soldier than Ultron ever did.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It starts out with a pretty sweet ass moment though, I love when Cap throws his shield into Ultron's chest and he just bats it away and says "Stop."
But yeah apart from that it's mostly just the acrobatics that make the scene cool, not the combat.
After The Winter Soldier, Whedon really needed to step it up with Cap. He definitely did better than the first Avengers, but didn't hit those highs the Russos did with the character.
Yes, how dare Steve try to stop Tony from doing the same thing that brought Ultron to life.
Yeah, cause Wanda's brainwashing had nothing to do with that decision..
Glass Rebel
Member
Yeah, cause Wanda's brainwashing had nothing to do with that decision..
That doesn't mean Steve was "picking a fight".
Yeah, cause Wanda's brainwashing had nothing to do with that decision..
At that point? No. Not even one bit. Whedon talks about how that is Stark's "villanous moment" in the movie comentary.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
You serious? They all have that cheese laugh-track comedy to them, the only exception being the Winter Soldier from the MCU. I actually like the family moment for the Hawk. :\
Yes, how dare Steve try to stop Tony from doing the same thing that brought Ultron to life.
This is actually the problem I have with this. Everyone says Tony is to blame for Ultron, and while its true, he:
1. Was influenced by Scarlet Witch to do it.
2. Immediately tries to stop Ultron
His actual mistake and what people should give him shit for is trying to do it again, he just got lucky it was what was actually supposed to happen this time.
Freddy=Legend
Member
I really feel like Whedon didn't see or even read the scripts to the Phase 2 films while doing AoU. Like he just knew the plot synopsis & threw in a couple teases, like the Winter Soldier reference. His characters just didn't feel like they were the same ones coming off of their solo outings in Phase 2.
Glass Rebel
Member
AoU honestly did way more damage to Natasha than it did to Steve in terms of characterization. I don't remember Whedon falling into the usual Cap writing trap of making him "a man out of his time" (which has always been the most boring aspect of Cap to focus on anyway). I didn't interpret the "language" joke that way at all.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Didn't she just speed up the process? I thought he already started working on something. I can't remember all that well.
Doesn't Wanda directly mentions it to Steve, and that's how they end up at his place and try to stop him? I remember her saying something among the lines of "What do you think he is gonna do?"
He was, he mentioned now being able to do it because of the stone or something like that.
Glass Rebel
Member
That was about the Vision, we're talking about Scarlet Witch influencing Tony at the Hydra hideout which led to him creating Ultron, or at least speeding up the process as LegendofDragoonLives mentions.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Every Marvel movie has comedic moments yes, but it seems only in Avengers (with the exception of maybe the Iron Man movies but even Iron Man knows when to tone it down in the climax) is every single moment just a character making some sarcastic remark. My problem with it is how it ruins the tension every single time because none of them are actually like 'oh God, a lot of people could actually die here today' and it isn't even them joking to try and keep their hopes up, it's genuine jokes the moment things hit the fan.
No he talks about it with banner, about bringing the project back and being able to do it now.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I've seen all of them and they all have cringe funny moments other than Winter Soldier. The only ones that do it well are Ironman movies because it fits the character and GOTG. It honestly feels like suits look at Ironman 1 and copy & pasted all its formulas in every movie regardless if it makes sense or not. And none of their movies except.. once again Winter Soldier had real tension there. All their villains so far have been either garbage or mediocre blockbuster action villain that have no semblance of a threat to the heroes. There's no real tension in MCU movies.
The Russos and the same writer from WS are in this though, so I'm really hopeful! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Sibersk Esto
Banned
The Thor movies are the only ones I feel have been hurt by a more lighthearted tone. Branagh should've stuck with the great mythology he was weaving in Asgard and thrown the supporting cast in a fire.
When I first saw it, it felt ad-libbed. But it came off as a joke to me, would surprised if humor wasn't the intention there.
It's awful. My 7 year old daughter said "what's he talking about?" and I said "I think he means did they stop to eat a salad."
MikeHaggar
Member
perfect. next time you're not around and she sees an adult eating a salad she's going to ask them if they are playing hide the zucchini hahaha.
I'm personally relieved the Russo's have been handed the reigns, I was never a fan of Whedon's so his appeal has always been lost on me. Age of Ultron only solidified that when the trailers painted a completely different movie then the one we got, and unfortunately not a better one at that. The best piece of information revealed so far about Infinity War is that the Russo's will be keeping it in the totally similar to Winter Soldier and Civil War.
I was watching an inflight version of Age of Ultron which was edited for content. Alot of the "naughty" quips like the "zucchini" line were dropped and the film played much better because of it.
They also cut Tony's "prima noctae" line, which I found problematic. If you've seen Braveheart, you know it basically allows royalty to rape their subjects.
BKatastrophe
Member
Does the supporting cast being garbage really hinge on it being a lighter tone?
Cap has been picking this damn fight every time they have been together.
Cap was trying to pick a fight?
He was trying to stop Tony Stark from making Murder Bot 2.0. The only person in the room for this scene who didn't think it was a sketchy or bad idea was Stark himself, even Banner thought it was a bad idea.
Pretty much, Tony is about to get wacked hard. His days of being the best trash talker/disser in the MCU are pretty much over.
Jon Watts is directing the next Spidey film, doesn't he have comedy experience? I want to check out Cop Car to get a feel of his style--regardless of whether it's good or not.
I loved daddy issues Ultron. Not what I was expecting after hearing about the comicbook counterpart, but it was an interesting take that I wish was more fleshed out. I really feel that Spader was wasted and I'd be ok with him coming back, but of course that isn't happening. That moment with him and Vision at the end is probably my favorite moment in the film.
Which reminds me, Vision was easily the best part about that film.
I know that Bruce and Nat are the outsiders of the group, but besides that, I couldn't buy into their romance at all. Was the payoff for that her forcing the Hulk out of him right before they could've ran away? Just seemed odd that Whedon felt the need to include that sort of arc in the film. I would've much rather seen more Ultron.
Yeah-all those lines could have been cut and nothing would have been missed. Juvenile and not even funny.
MutonCommander
Banned
Yeah, that line was terrible. Whedon royally messed up with the writing of the movie.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Considering MCU still hasn't made a movie as good as Spiderman 2 in 13 or 14 attempts, yeah good luck with that.
I was talking about quips specifically, not gonna go down the spiderman 2 rabbit hole again lol
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