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[APF]

I mean, Biden voted for the AUMF too and most Dems have been dreaming wistfully of a universe where he cames into this election sweeping everyone off their feet. Not to defend their votes but even Iraq skeptics cast in its favor, largely because they felt by adding their voice Bush would for some reason feel compelled to listen to their council & their provisos, eg to go through the UNSC / inspections process in good faith and not just say "fuck it" and start giving countdown demands no one could possibly adhere to... I mean I really don't want to give excuses for these votes but my overall point is this isn't just something you pin on Hillary with your arms crossed. There are a lot of shameful "Yea"s in that list.

 

[Macam]

Also, people rehashing the tired argument that "omg no one knew the Iraq was a bad idea" is hardly worth arguing against.

While no one knew just how badly the damn thing was going to go under the Bush administration, it's not as if opposition to the war was non-existent or that some informed people, regardless of the lies being peddled, weren't able to accurately say that it wasn't a good idea. They did; most people just didn't listen, least of all much of Congress.

 

[DiracSea]

Not listening to logic and math is worthy of derision be it on the left or the right.

But then you don't get to complain when the people you made fun of don't go voting for Hillary.

 

[Azzanadra]

"everyone" at the time was for the war, alot of people were upset, she voted yes to it because the people wanted it.

So she will basically do whatever the masses want? If it turns out the masses want Trump, should she just fold and give him the presidency?

 

[Agent_Carnage]

I almost threw up.

Come on Try Hillary you'll LOVE HER!!

 

[nitekrawlwer]

But then you don't get to complain when the people you made fun of don't go voting for Hillary.

I have yet to.

 

[120v]

everybody and their dog was pro-war in 2003. doesn't make it right (personally it was a disgusting thing to live through) but i don't think a "yes" vote qualifies one as a warmonger, either

 

[danm999]

Not really. As the primaries show, and many NeoGAFers are keen to point out, there's nothing particularly indicating that a Bernie-ish platform is the future of the Democratic party's platform in particular (cue info graph showing Americans' favorability of atheists and socialists here). Otherwise, he'd have been more competitive and won a bigger share of the primates thus far and people wouldn't be so dismissive of the ideas behind his campaign. You can't have it both ways.

Nobody is having it both ways. The reason people say Sanders and his ideas are the future, despite him getting pretty badly beaten in the current primary, is the age gap between Clinton and Sanders voters.

 

[David H Wong]

Nobody is having it both ways. The reason people say Sanders and his ideas are the future, despite him getting pretty badly beaten in the current primary, is the age gap between Clinton and Sanders voters.

People get more conservative as they get older.

 

[APF]

Note it wasn't so long ago (16 years?) that people were making fun of civil unions in Vermont, now same-sex marriage is the law of the land with majority support.

Edit: people grow conservative but more appropriately they hold on to their existing beliefs while younger generations move forward

 

[siddhu33]

You've got to vote Hillary, even if you don't like her. That's how the game is played...you need democratic Supreme Court nominees, and you need a favourable congress when redistricting happens. And if you want to change that? Guess who is the arbiter of said change!

And yeah, it sucks. But it's within the realm of possibility so that's what America has to do.

 

[MIMIC]

"everyone" at the time was for the war, alot of people were upset, she voted yes to it because the people wanted it.

This is not an excuse. I certainly wasn't for it and neither were a lot of people. And AGAIN: it was based on lies. Are you saying it's OK to go to war based on a lie?

If this isn't proof you have a clear ignorance of the nuanced history of what lead up to the Iraq war and why BOTH the public and congress voted for it, then I don't know what will.

"Nuanced history"? LOL. Is that what you call those forgeries about the uranium?

I honestly cannot believe that a bunch of so-called Democrats are defending this nonsense.

EDIT: Actually, defend it. I really don't care. Vote how ever you want. Just don't tell me how to vote and what issues I should or shouldn't find important.

 

[Released]

I find the Iraq War vote less troubling than her recent tenure as Secretary of State and actions/statements made then. This article was particularly good.

When The Atlantic published this statement, and also published Clinton’s assessment that “great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle,” Obama became “rip-shit angry,” according to one of his senior advisers. The president did not understand how “Don’t do stupid shit” could be considered a controversial slogan.

Right after Obama’s reversal, Hillary Clinton said privately, “If you say you’re going to strike, you have to strike. There’s no choice.”

Biden, who is acerbic about Clinton’s foreign-policy judgment, has said privately, “Hillary just wants to be Golda Meir.”

 

[cheezcake]

People get more conservative as they get older.

Relative to what? What's progressive today will likely be centrist 20-30 years from now.

 

[Steel]

Since the issue of Sanders' supporters relation to the general election came up, I think some might find this article interesting(it's related to voters <34): http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...als-clinton-sanders-trump-president/81612520/

Nearly one in four Republicans would defect to the Democrats if the GOP nominated Trump against Clinton. Just 7% of Democrats would defect to the GOP.

and

Among Sanders' supporters, 65% say they would turn out for Clinton in the general election, 9% would back Trump, and 20% would sit it out.

That Sanders-to-Trump flip was a little higher than I thought it'd be.

 

[danm999]

People get more conservative as they get older.

Outside of Churchill quotes this isn't necessarily a truism. In fact voting patterns in a person's first few elections tend to be very predictive of how they'll continue to vote.

 

[Jams775]

All this news I've been hearing about the predictions of rising sea levels, etc are happing faster that previously thought. Hilary not wanting to outright stop fracking but regulate it seems like a big problem to me.

I'm curious about how Hilarygaf feels about this. I mean I don't know if this is something a president could even force, but her positions on it seem pretty poor.

 

[Fat4all]

My grandma is blue, through and through.

I love that crazy old gal.

I'm curious about how Hilarygaf feels about this. I mean I don't know if this is something a president could even force, but her positions on it seem pretty poor.

Personally, I'm on the edge. I love where I live in WV, and coal mining is finally starting to die out here, but fracking is a large large portion of the replaced jobs in these parts. It would cripple my community if fracking was made illegal the day after the next President is sworn in. It does need to be stopped, but really needs to be done gradually, and with proper replacement work for those who will be displaced as a result.

 

[GK86]

Since the issue of Sanders' supporters relation to the general election, I think some might find this article interesting(it's related to voters <34): http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...als-clinton-sanders-trump-president/81612520/



and



That Sanders-to-Trump flip was a little higher than I thought it'd be.

Those 20% should vote third party.

 

[Macam]

Nobody is having it both ways. The reason people say Sanders and his ideas are the future, despite him getting pretty badly beaten in the current primary, is the age gap between Clinton and Sanders voters.

Surely you jest; plenty of people are. It's practically become this forum's de facto narrative about the political future under a Clinton administration.

 

[Steel]

All this news I've been hearing about the predictions of rising sea levels, etc are happing faster that previously thought. Hilary not wanting to outright stop fracking but regulate it seems like a big problem to me.

I'm curious about how Hilarygaf feels about this. I mean I don't know if this is something a president could even force, but her positions on it seem pretty poor.

For the record: I'm part of anyone-but-TrumpGaf, not Hillarygaf. That being said, even if we magically stopped using oil for fuel tomorrow we'd still need it. Something like a quarter of all oil produced isn't used for fuel.

 

[siddhu33]

All this news I've been hearing about the predictions of rising sea levels, etc are happing faster that previously thought. Hilary not wanting to outright stop fracking but regulate it seems like a big problem to me.

I'm curious about how Hilarygaf feels about this. I mean I don't know if this is something a president could even force, but her positions on it seem pretty poor.

I'm not even American but I have a feeling that the lack of reliance on Saudi oil makes fracking very appealing; the government seems to not want to deal with them as much as you or me...its resulted in a lot of damage though so I dunno how they can even regulate such a thing?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Since the issue of Sanders' supporters relation to the general election, I think some might find this article interesting(it's related to voters <34): http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...als-clinton-sanders-trump-president/81612520/



and



That Sanders-to-Trump flip was a little higher than I thought it'd be.

So 9% of Bernie supporters are ain't shit fuck boys/fuck girls. Word.

 

[Leona Lewis]

You Can't Stump The Trump Volume XXI (The Ides Of Marco)

Glorious as ever.

 

[Jams775]

For the record: I'm part of anyone-but-TrumpGaf, not Hillarygaf. That being said, even if we magically stopped using oil for fuel tomorrow we'd still need it. Something like a quarter of all oil produced isn't used for fuel.

That's true and I'm of the mind that it's probably going to just play out at this point regardless of what we try to do to fix it.

 

[Macam]

Relative to what? What's progressive today will likely be centrist 20-30 years from now.

What's conservative today is not something that anyone would consider centrist or liberal 20-30 years ago. Not exactly the best argument here.

 

[metalslimer]

20% are dumb young people that don't understand you need local and state politicians so that your state doesn't turn to shit. No matter how left the president is he/she won't be able to stop people like Bobby Jindal or Brownbackfrom destroying a states finances.

 

[siddhu33]

20% are dumb young people that don't understand you need local and state politicians so that your state doesn't turn to shit. No matter how left the president is he/she won't be able to stop people like Bobby Jindal or Brownbackfrom destroying a states finances.

Amen. People think the president does everything and manages everything but it's not true. The job of president is to inspire some and take shit from others.

 

[Macam]

You've got to vote Hillary, even if you don't like her. That's how the game is played...you need democratic Supreme Court nominees, and you need a favourable congress when redistricting happens. And if you want to change that? Guess who is the arbiter of said change!

And yeah, it sucks. But it's within the realm of possibility so that's what America has to do.

Well, mostly Congress and state legislatures, not the president beyond appointing SC nominees.

That's where people should be focusing their attention at this point (especially Wisconsin peeps; bring Feingold back, thanks).

 

[metalslimer]

Hopefully Sanders puts his energy and money to get people out to vote in all the races this fall. Trump is toxic enough that there is a small possibility the house could be taken as well as the senate.

 

[cheezcake]

What's conservative today is not something that anyone would consider centrist or liberal 20-30 years ago. Not exactly the best argument here.

Progressive values tend to shift centrist, so would be considered getting more conservative. I agree that centrist values don't tend to become conservative though. But I think we were talking generally in the context of young progressives so I think the point stands.

 

[danm999]

Surely you jest; plenty of people are. It's practically become this forum's de facto narrative about the political future under a Clinton administration.

I'm not saying people aren't saying it, I'm saying it isn't a contradiction.

 

[RootCause]

The merciless mocking of Bernie supporters has to stop. We need them in the general.

Making them feel like they aren't welcome in the party anymore helps no one.

That shit attitude won't change anytime soon. Unfortunately.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Outside of Churchill quotes this isn't necessarily a truism. In fact voting patterns in a person's first few elections tend to be very predictive of how they'll continue to vote.

And he didn't even say that one quote to begin with (near the start of the last item in the article).

 

[danm999]

And he didn't even say that one quote to begin with (near the start of the last item in the article).

Yeah I think pretty much everybody going back to the French Revolution has had that one attributed to them at some point or another.

 

[Dany]

&#129300;

 

[catmincer]

&#129300;

Smacks head against wall.

 

[Otnopolit]

&#129300;

I'm beginning to think Bernie supporters might be as misinformed as Trump ones...? Or maybe just a little naive.

 

[Tarydax]

People get more conservative as they get older.

Wasn't there an article on Cracked from a while ago that refuted that?

Edit:

It's in the one BrutishMrFish linked to.

The graphs in the article run counter to the notion that old people get more conservative as they age. Even the silent generation slowly grew more accepting of things like gay marriage or marijuana legalization.

 

[Steel]

&#129300;

Please tell me that you know why this logic is flawed.

 

[B-Dubs]

Wasn't there an article on Cracked from a while ago that refuted that?

There's actual studies that disprove it.

 

[El Odio]

&#129300;

Surprised this one doesn't mention how his REAL states are all ahead of him now.

 

[Tarydax]

There's actual studies that disprove it.

I know, it's just funny given that he's Cracked's executive editor.

 

[You Know Nothing]

&#129300;

Babby's first primary.

 

[danm999]

I think you all took the bait with that image.

 

[CharminUltra]

Berners set to dominate. Hide while you can, Killaqueen.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

&#129300;

Um... have you read the DNC rules for Primary's on how they award Delegates?

 

[RootCause]

I think you all took the bait with that image.

Sure looks like it.

 

[Kindekuma]

&#129300;

Wake up Sheeple!

But seriously, that's not this works.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

"The Media Is Lying To You" is the best part of that image. You just gotta love a conspiracy theory.