Jean Valjean
Member
For a SPOILER thread, this thread is seriously lacking in spoilers...
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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
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kylecoley182
Banned
just wait till Monday night
Schweinehund
Member
Who all was going the 21st? I know Penguin is. I'm super jealous.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
This is a Batman who has become cynical after what he's been through (death of Robin, amongst other possible things - "Twenty years in Gotham... how many good guys are left? How many stay that way?"). He stopped giving a shit about criminal's lives a long time ago. I'm not sure I buy the branding rumour, but it wouldn't surprise me with how this Batman is being characterized.
If those "reviews" are true then we have had some massive spoilers already.
Someone just leaked the entire movie from beginning to end on superherohype forums so we got massive spoilers there as well.
Plus pictures supporting some of those spoilers.
GringoSuave89
Banned
I am. Got 4 seats for the fam, so we're all pumped.
Neither of them should be killing in any mainstream interpretation of the characters IMO
There's a good way and bad way to portray an objectivist reading of superheroes and Zack Snyder does it the bad way
Although I don't agree with objectivism Brad bird tied it in effectively in the incredibles
There's a good way and bad way to portray an objectivist reading of superheroes and Zack Snyder does it the bad way
Although I don't agree with objectivism Brad bird tied it in effectively in the incredibles
Poodlestrike
Banned
You're assuming that it's an objectivist reading of superheroes though. There's a certain degree of it baked into it, the vigilante striking out against society's restraints, but it's really not objectivist in any serious sense.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
This makes no sense, you say this as if there's only ONE way to read these heroes, and that any other way is dismissed as being "objectively" incorrect.
Also, Snyder isn't the only person to have done Superman killing (John Byrne, etc.), same would be for Batman if he has killed in BvS (he's killed people since the Golden Age of comics).
I am!
Schweinehund
Member
So jealousss. I'm definitely going to their next event (if they have one, presumably for Justice League), where I lived before didn't have a nearby imax.
First you get advance copies of books and now you have advance tickets
.there are only a few ways to effectively and sucessfully portray a character. Anything else is a deliberate departure or deconstructionism. Just because you can do a variety of things with batman doesn't mean any of them will be good.
The golden age batman is hardly the mainstream version of the character and not part of most popular or lauded batman stories
Limitations are a friend to the artist. To have a character wantonly kill two-bit criminals is denying thematic or emotional impact that could potentially be used and it's cheap and unearned.
I thought this entire movie was spoiled by that official trailer. At the very least we already know the general plot, right? Here's what I took away from it. (bonus: I'll contribute my own speculation based on how cliche/predictable I believe this film will be)
-Batman perceives Superman as a villain and aims to take him out. (probably also manipulated in some way by Lex cuz he evil... and Lex probably also manipulates Superman to attack Batman cuz, again, Lex evil)
-Batman and Superman fight. (Batman gaining access to kryptonite is the only way I see him putting up a fight... probably gets it from Lex)
-Lex creates an actual threat to mankind cuz evil. (which I've been told is Doomsday -- a character I'm wholly unfamiliar with outside of Injustice) Batman and Superman must then team up to eliminate this threat. (I'm guessing they'll become cool with each other just in time to save the day... probably during the climax of the one actual fight that they have in the movie after crossing paths a few times to build the tension... probably right when one of them is about to land the killing blow on the other) Also, Wonder Woman is there for reasons! (get that merch money!)
-(All speculation from here on out: Batman uses his cunning to assist in the fight, but ultimately it's Superman that needs to take down the big bad with his limitless superpowers. He does so via self-sacrifice cuz he good... possibly with Batman's kryptonite that he intended to use on Sups because that would be poetic or some shit. Big bad guy is dead but so is Superman...)
-(...or is he! No, since Superman is omnipotent he's totally alive and ready for that Justice League movie! But no one actually bought the swerve/drama for a second since that film has already been announced. Also, Lex goes to jail or whatever where he can bust out for a future sequel.)
Sorry for the cynicism. Hope the movie proves me wrong because I think the premise could be good but I have zero faith that a Snyder film can pull it off.
-Batman perceives Superman as a villain and aims to take him out. (probably also manipulated in some way by Lex cuz he evil... and Lex probably also manipulates Superman to attack Batman cuz, again, Lex evil)
-Batman and Superman fight. (Batman gaining access to kryptonite is the only way I see him putting up a fight... probably gets it from Lex)
-Lex creates an actual threat to mankind cuz evil. (which I've been told is Doomsday -- a character I'm wholly unfamiliar with outside of Injustice) Batman and Superman must then team up to eliminate this threat. (I'm guessing they'll become cool with each other just in time to save the day... probably during the climax of the one actual fight that they have in the movie after crossing paths a few times to build the tension... probably right when one of them is about to land the killing blow on the other) Also, Wonder Woman is there for reasons! (get that merch money!)
-(All speculation from here on out: Batman uses his cunning to assist in the fight, but ultimately it's Superman that needs to take down the big bad with his limitless superpowers. He does so via self-sacrifice cuz he good... possibly with Batman's kryptonite that he intended to use on Sups because that would be poetic or some shit. Big bad guy is dead but so is Superman...)
-(...or is he! No, since Superman is omnipotent he's totally alive and ready for that Justice League movie! But no one actually bought the swerve/drama for a second since that film has already been announced. Also, Lex goes to jail or whatever where he can bust out for a future sequel.)
Sorry for the cynicism. Hope the movie proves me wrong because I think the premise could be good but I have zero faith that a Snyder film can pull it off.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
So Lex and Batman figure out his identity? Why does he even bother having an identity in the MOS universe?
You see guys, this is how easily that "full movie synopsis" could have been made up.
One of his greatest enemies and the worlds greatest detective knows his identity so he shouldn't have a secret identity?
Future Foundation
Member
That's true.
Very good point.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
And Lois Lane. And Wonder Woman.
I'm just saying, every single person that he's come into close contact (except Perry White, but they had just met at the end of MOS and I'm not sure what their relationship is here) figured out his identity like right away. He's not doing a very good job.
Future Foundation
Member
Lois wasn't really "right away". She does a bunch of investigating and backtracking. I really doubt the average person's gonna be looking that deeply into him (even if they do get close).
I hope it does. They are infinitely more interesting as friends with little reservation than they are with 'friction.'
I'm going.
Isn't the ticket limited to one person or did you take your family to see a movie trailer last year?
I'm sure there are a lot of theories on the internet right now, but really I feel like that (second?) trailer gave away way too much. Unless I'm way off, it seemed like they showed the beginning, middle, and end of the movie. There was stuff that I have no idea how it would fit into the plot (ex. an alien invasion, Batman fighting dudes in a desert -- possibly Lex's goons?) but the main characters of Batman, Superman, Lex, and surprise big dude seemed pretty well covered.
At any rate, despite my dislike of the "grimdark" aesthetic/tone that's been adopted for a lot of superhero movies it sure looks pretty.
EDIT: And there was an allusion to the Joker if memory serves. Again, no clue.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Almost literally dragged my family to the event haha but when they found out we were getting free IMAX tickets before the movie even official came out, they were psyched haha
MegaManTrigger
Banned
You say that only certain things work, and yet the medium has continually managed to change aspects of a character from the original status quo. Yes, not all things work, but on the flip side, changes can bring on a fresh interpretation that actually manages to work. That being said, certain things don't work, doesn't mean you don't try and sit on accepting the status quo interpretation, otherwise that's an easy way for comics/movies to stagnate (see: Raimi's Spider-Man and ASM, and how similar they are). The point wasn't to single out the golden age to justify Batman killing, the point was to show that there is precedence for changes happening, so to take a position that "only certain things work" is ironic in a medium where characters can change from time to time. In fact, look at Deadpool from the early comics to now: he wasn't as flippant, unpredictable, and funny like he is now with the current comics and movie.
We don't know Batman is wontonly killing though, all of this is based on someone's interpretation that has yet to be proven as true or false. For all we know, it could be bullshit fanfic crap thought up to stir the pot. Also, if it is true, is it really a surprise that Batman would brand criminals to cause death? This Batman has seen the death of Robin, he doesn't give a fuck about a criminal's civil liberties when he has seen people come out damaged/dead as a result of his experiences. He's cynical and likely believes that being cruel is the way to solve problems, because he's continually facing against people using cruel tactics.
PhantomZone
Member
It's going to be interesting for sure, I have serious reservations about it based on my overall dislike of Man of Steel (I know same old discussion again lol). I don't know what to make of Affleck as Batman yet, I still have the "ew disgusting" feeling about it - until I see it I'm just going to assume it's Affleck pretending to be Batman and not doing that good of a job.
Hopefully I am wrong.... I hated Chris Evans and dreaded him being Captain America when I found out, saw The First Avenger and he was great. Hoping for the same here, but my already established disliking of Affleck will likely affect my judgment.
Everyone saying that this will be the most accurate portrayal of Batman on film to date..... have they seen it themselves or are they basing this off of the few snippets in the trailer ? The recent one that showed him fighting "Arkham" style got people excited - while I was largely indifferent.
Give me something with decent acting, no corny as hell jokes and with as few plotholes or nonsensical moments (re: don't just jump from scene to scene without cohesion) and I should enjoy it. Going off that persons Twitter impressions from the other week that said if you liked or hated Man of Steel that would likely carry over to BvS - I'm probably not going to enjoy it.
I purchased the soundtrack on Thursday (yay for releasing the music of a movie a week BEFORE it's actual release) it's ok but movie soundtracks these days try to be these epic masterpieces but how many of them are going to be remembered in the same way that Star Wars, Jaws, Superman, Danny Elfman's Batman are today ?
Hopefully I am wrong.... I hated Chris Evans and dreaded him being Captain America when I found out, saw The First Avenger and he was great. Hoping for the same here, but my already established disliking of Affleck will likely affect my judgment.
Everyone saying that this will be the most accurate portrayal of Batman on film to date..... have they seen it themselves or are they basing this off of the few snippets in the trailer ? The recent one that showed him fighting "Arkham" style got people excited - while I was largely indifferent.
Give me something with decent acting, no corny as hell jokes and with as few plotholes or nonsensical moments (re: don't just jump from scene to scene without cohesion) and I should enjoy it. Going off that persons Twitter impressions from the other week that said if you liked or hated Man of Steel that would likely carry over to BvS - I'm probably not going to enjoy it.
I purchased the soundtrack on Thursday (yay for releasing the music of a movie a week BEFORE it's actual release) it's ok but movie soundtracks these days try to be these epic masterpieces but how many of them are going to be remembered in the same way that Star Wars, Jaws, Superman, Danny Elfman's Batman are today ?
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9-ixur-yWc
He is Bruce Wayne. He is Batman.
I agree with the first comment in that video. Sorry for ever doubting you Ben.
PhantomZone
Member
Will need to see it in full to give a proper judgment but I'm just not sold on him.
In comparison I was excited by Heath Ledger as The Joker while others were having their hissy fits over the casting. Bias because of having an Australian play the role, but I knew what he would bring as The Joker and he even smashed my expectations. Interested in Leto's Joker interpretation in Suicide Squad.
Friend just saw the movie yesterday, seeing it again today. He's credible, as he works in a major entertainment media company.
Anyway, he was tight-lipped about it, but confirmed several things:
No Green Lantern, no drones.
There is a plot about Clark Kent's death, he says, since both Lex and Bruce find out who Superman is.
There's "a lot more" to the movie than the trailers.
Came away from the movie hyped for seeing more Wonder Woman.
Overall, he loved the movie, although he concedes he's a huge Bat fan and that it shows Affleck had a major hand in reworking the script.
Anyway, he was tight-lipped about it, but confirmed several things:
No Green Lantern, no drones.
There is a plot about Clark Kent's death, he says, since both Lex and Bruce find out who Superman is.
There's "a lot more" to the movie than the trailers.
Came away from the movie hyped for seeing more Wonder Woman.
Overall, he loved the movie, although he concedes he's a huge Bat fan and that it shows Affleck had a major hand in reworking the script.
This is me walking down to the theater on release
The scared civilians will be the people who just saw the reviews and are leaving the theater
this whole conversation is going off the SHH post as if it were true, otherwise there's no point to any of this.
Let me put this way: if your vision of "innovating" batman is to make him carelessly kill random thugs and cannon fodder, it is incredibly lazy and base. Why not make him use guns?
it's a significant departure from the character as he is popularized. It's a more cynical depiction of batman and I am simply not interested in that being the flagship depiction of the character. To suggest that this is somehow a new vision of batman is silly. It's clear that some things have been derived from DKR, where batman doesn't use guns or kill.
you cite deadpool as an example of a character changing, but he progressed as a character. making batman use guns and kill people would be a regression. It would be like deadpool going back to the way he was before he Joe kelly run.
Hmmm thank you. Didn't really expect Green Lantern, but good to hear another positive response.
Schweinehund
Member
See this makes me confused, does he know who Hal Jordan is (like would he be able to spot the name tag and understand the reference) or does he just see Green Lantern as he usually is, a guy in a green/black suit with a ring. I'm assuming the former, just checking.
Oh, he didn't deny Hal makes an appearance (he's a walking DC encyclopedia, he would know), but he says he didn't see Hal and Green Lantern definitely doesn't appear.
We see Cyborg before he's transformed.
He did tell me more things, BUT, Warner Bros. IS cracking down hard on even reactions. My friend hasn't even posted a "I just saw BvS" post on FB or anything, nothing.
Lokimaru
Member
Schweinehund
Member
Ah ok, I'm not a big Hal fan but man there's going to be so many crushed fans. I guess Amboyer was just milking it or they cut it out and it's going to be in the extended edition.
More reddit "leaks" popping up, guy put a lot of effort into the email mockup but he just said Flash wasn't in the knightmare sequence... which contradicts the entertainment weekly magazine. I really don't know what drives these people to 5 minutes of anonymous fame.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
SHH is known to have trolls who act as if they have seen the movie to bait people amongst other things. And most of the posters have contradicted each other's plot points. So understandably, I'm skeptical about newly registered accounts trying to give plot details about the movie (vs. a few older threads where credible people have posted plot details of previously released movies like MoS and AoU).
When you put it that way, it is lazy and base. However, you're oversimplifying changes to a character without taking into account that writers would provide justification that enables the changes to make narrative sense. Batman killing could be a very compelling point of exploration when you combine that with notions about just how far Batman would go before crossing the line. Or realizing just how futile his war against crime is when criminals keep pushing the envelope and playing dirty, while he forces himself to play clean.
That's the problem, if you simply focus on the status quo, you creatively stifle yourself from playing around with things that could transform a character into something else entirely. In fact, the irony is that you've cited TDKReturns, a comic that has been seen as the lynchpin of Batman's transformation from the campy Silver Age rendition, to the much more grim and cynical interpretation. That being said, the point wasn't about changes being regressions or progressions. The point was about changes being very common in the comic book world. Like I mentioned, certain things may not work, but how would you know unless you experiment?
I've learned to "unskew" my friend's reactions. So his "I loved it" would really be "it's ok, not bad" after the hype goes down.
From what he's told me, I'm expecting an 85% or less on RT, although my friend says that it'll be in the 90s thanks to average positive ratings (a bit like TFA).
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
This will be a huge improvement for Snyder then considering his movies have never received those scores. Pretty cool to hear that his efforts may pay of. Poor guy looks so exhausted in any pic I see him in,
The spoilers are already here, friend.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
On other forums and twitter and stuff? Will look.
That's not what I meant but sure. You go right ahead. Leave NeoGAF behind.
This forum was never good enough for you.
Just make sure you return to us before we hold a funeral for you. You wouldn't want to give us the wrong impression, and actually be alive and well.
It was only a matter of time.
I understood that reference...?
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