Batman v. Superman RT Thread: like standing ovations in rain

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Gordon Shumway said:
I'm hoping that's not the case for me, although Batman is the main reason for the fam and I to go watch it. MoS was ok enough. Unfortunately, the characters that I liked are both dead, so that sucks a bit. I'm sure I'll like it better than a 31% lol. No way this is THAT bad. Trailers alone are two times better than the entirety of the Fan4stic movie..PayPal be damned.
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I see what you did there.
 
Every other comic movie this year is under a microscope now.

They better be fucking good or they are going to get ripped, and rightfully so. I'm so happy Deadpool did well man, its gonna fuck around and review better than the rest this year or something lol.
 
Veelk said:
Well, in fairness, 'getting' a concept is significantly easier than realizing a story based on it.

Though yeah, Snyder doesn't even get the concept, so he wouldn't even attempt to realize it.
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Nah, Snyder gets the concept. He's not an idiot. He just utterly rejects that concept. He disagrees with it. He abhors it on some level it seems. He wants to do his own thing, which is fine, but his main problem is that he's simply a shitty storyteller; thus his own concept of Superman and heroes in general just falls flat and feels forced in application.
 
That was a very thoughtful article - I admit I wasn't expecting that from something on Polygon.

31%. For a film that was given so much extra time, with a first installment that had had its flaws laid bare so often, that's a true shame. It's as if Snyder, the producers, and writers didn't take any of the criticism of the first to heart.
 
Dalek said:
Superman isn't a hero because he can fly and beat up people. He's a hero because of the morality, humanity and humility he learned from his parents.
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Bobby posted this great review from Walter Chaw that touches on this in BvS:

DAILY PLANET editor Perry White (Laurence Fishburne) declares that the American conscience died with "Martin, Bobby, and John." He's admonishing one of his idealistic reporters, but he may as well be addressing anyone left in the audience hoping to see the hero who protects us. The biggest lie, Luthor says, is the idea that power is ever innocent. How terrible that he's right. How terrible that this truth is the truth in a Superman film. How fascinating that Snyder's better Watchmen adaptation is BVS. Snyder paints himself into a curious corner with his interpretation of Superman as this moping, solipsistic god. There's a montage of him doing wondrous things, like blowing up missiles and rescuing farm families from rooftops. But if Supes isn't governed by an innate morality, the cornerstone of this character, then the only reason he hasn't thrown every bad guy on the planet into orbit is because he doesn't really care to solve that problem. He whispers at the end that Lois Lane is his world. She is. The sum total of it. Oh, and his mom, sort of. He has a penchant for running away when things get hard. He's a whiny, truculent, occasionally homicidal child, and if that's not a better representation of the United States and what it believes in, then I stand chastened with knuckles rapped.
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Phediuk said:
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http://screencrush.com/batman-vs-superman-ultimate-ticket/



.
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Cipherr said:
Every other comic movie this year is under a microscope now.

They better be fucking good or they are going to get ripped, and rightfully so. I'm so happy Deadpool did well man, its gonna fuck around and review better than the rest this year or something lol.
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Civil War needs to be the good VS movie we deserve but I'm afraid it's going to buckle under the weight of too many characters, too many things happening, and too much future movie promotion setup like Age of Ultron did.
 
Pop said:
No

Those trailers looked like hot garbage. That was enough for most people.
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Yep. Even my mother randomly brought up the fact that the movie looks terrible. Which I found odd since she has no investment in these films at all and she rarely has anything negative to say about movies or the trailers for them.
 
Pop said:
The same "critics" that have Sharknado sitting at a 82%. We're supposed to take these scores serious.

Most be a bunch of hate for Snyder or maybe those critics expected a different movie. Or maybe cause Batman is a lot darker in this. Who knows. Just seems like senseless trolling at this point. User scores will be no different but I expected trolling from them.
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Actually that's not true. Of the 17 critics who reviewed Sharknado, only 1 reviewed BvS. RT is meant to be an aggregate not a comparison tool.
 
dabig2 said:
Nah, Snyder gets the concept. He's not an idiot. He just utterly rejects that concept. He disagrees with it. He abhors it on some level it seems. He wants to do his own thing, which is fine, but his main problem is that he's simply a shitty storyteller; thus his own concept of Superman and heroes in general just falls flat and feels forced in application.
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I disagree on that front. It's what I thought up until the last few days. But seeing him talk about the death toll by comparing it to TFA's makes it clear he doesn't understand the complaints, atleast not completely. He conceptualizes the fans as simple not wanting to see death, when the real problem is how he has superman react to them.
 
Anton Sugar said:
Bobby posted this great review from Walter Chaw that touches on this in BvS:
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this guy's got comic book movie reviews for days. appreciates the good ones, shits on the bad ones. but he finds gems in everything.

been reading his stuff lately on x-men, spider-man and avengers and he's spot on. also like his reviews for various drama films.

Messofanego said:
Yeah but pro-Israel proganda female action? :P
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heh yeah it's a damn shame. i'm torn.

"weareright" "loveidf" lmao what a shit.
 
I see people write BvS and immediately think Buffy the Vampire Slayer and for a second get mad that people are shitting on Buffy the Vampire Slayer before reminding myself I clicked on a Batman vs. Superman thread. Those are my thoughts.
 
Veelk said:
I disagree on that front. It's what I thought up until the last few days. But seeing him talk about the death toll by comparing it to TFA's makes it clear he doesn't understand the complaints, atleast not completely. He conceptualizes the fans as simple not wanting to see death, when the real problem is how he has superman react to them.
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It's not like we've never seen Superman fail before in comics.

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Even fan-artists have tackled it before:

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Snyder just fails to do it in a decent way.
 
Dalek said:
Superman isn't a hero because he can fly and beat up people. He's a hero because of the morality, humanity and humility he learned from his parents.
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Here's a thing I wrote about a month ago to some friends on facebook:

Zack Snyder's biggest failing with Superman isn't his direction, or even his pacing (which is a problem). It's that he seems to approach Superman solely as a male power fantasy (which he is) as opposed to a cool guy you'd like to be friends with (which he is *even more*). This thins out Superman's characterization quite a bit, and makes it harder to emotionally connect with him, and causes you to write him into situations where the big payoff isn't emotional, it's pyrotechnical.

I mean, he's not the only person who's done this though. There's about 30 years of comics writers who have made this mistake to varying degrees in that course of time.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Here's a thing I wrote about a month ago to some friends on facebook:

Zack Snyder's biggest failing with Superman isn't his direction, or even his pacing (which is a problem). It's that he seems to approach Superman solely as a male power fantasy (which he is) as opposed to a cool guy you'd like to be friends with (which he is *even more*). This thins out Superman's characterization quite a bit, and makes it harder to emotionally connect with him, and causes you to write him into situations where the big payoff isn't emotional, it's pyrotechnical.

I mean, he's not the only person who's done this though. There's about 30 years of comics writers who have made this mistake to varying degrees in that course of time.
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Snyder makes Supes feel "alien", which is missing the point of his character.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Here's a thing I wrote about a month ago to some friends on facebook:

Zack Snyder's biggest failing with Superman isn't his direction, or even his pacing (which is a problem). It's that he seems to approach Superman solely as a male power fantasy (which he is) as opposed to a cool guy you'd like to be friends with (which he is *even more*). This thins out Superman's characterization quite a bit, and makes it harder to emotionally connect with him, and causes you to write him into situations where the big payoff isn't emotional, it's pyrotechnical.

I mean, he's not the only person who's done this though. There's about 30 years of comics writers who have made this mistake to varying degrees in that course of time.
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That's one of the things I liked about the animated series. Especially when he would visit his folks. Timm and Dini knew how to handle him.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
It's not like we've never seen Superman fail before in comics.
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Uh, now I think you're not getting me.

I never said that what he doesn't get is that Superman can't fail. I said that Superman reacts to the destruction around him in an apathetic way, and he is under the impression that fans are objecting to the destruction rather than superman's reaction.

The evidence for Snyder not getting superman isn't in how he depicts superman, it's how responds to the criticism.
 
Dahbomb said:
Henry Cavill in his normal non acting persona is more of a Superman guy than the actual character portrayed in the movies.
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With some of the stuff he said recently during press interviews its even harder for me to accept him as the character.
 
Boy, the internet truly is powered by schadenfreude. 9000 posts....
 
mattiewheels said:
Boy, the internet truly is powered by schadenfreude. 9000 posts....
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I am honestly shocked that WB messed such a pivotal movie up this bad and they allowed Snyder to get away with so much of it. I can't be the only one who thinks this too.

This is a $400+ million movie here that is setting up multiple movies of similar budget down the line. They couldn't have afforded to mess this one up this bad.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Here's a thing I wrote about a month ago to some friends on facebook:

Zack Snyder's biggest failing with Superman isn't his direction, or even his pacing (which is a problem). It's that he seems to approach Superman solely as a male power fantasy (which he is) as opposed to a cool guy you'd like to be friends with (which he is *even more*). This thins out Superman's characterization quite a bit, and makes it harder to emotionally connect with him, and causes you to write him into situations where the big payoff isn't emotional, it's pyrotechnical.

I mean, he's not the only person who's done this though. There's about 30 years of comics writers who have made this mistake to varying degrees in that course of time.
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This is a great way to describe it. Spot on stuff.
Veelk said:
Uh, now I think you're not getting me.

I never said that what he doesn't get is that Superman can't fail. I said that Superman reacts to the destruction around him in an apathetic way, and he thinks fans are complaining about the destruction rather than superman's reaction.

The evidence for Snyder not getting superman isn't in how he depicts superman, it's how responds to the criticism.
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All I was saying is that Superman does fail, and that the ideas in Man of Steel, in some ways, actually aren't unprecedented. Superman failing has come up in the comics before. Like those panels were showing, it was just almost always anchored by a moving, humanizing element showing what a decent person Clark is, and how much he cares about anyone he fails to help or accidentally hurts.

I think the proof for Snyder not getting Superman is really in both though. He created a one-dimensional Superman, when for all the criticism of Superman as "boring," he's actually a fairly complicated and multifaceted character, and then he fails to get why people are criticizing his Superman.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
This is a great way to describe it. Spot on stuff.

All I was saying is that Superman does fail, and that the ideas in Man of Steel, in some ways, actually aren't unprecedented. Superman failing has come up in the comics before.
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But this was never the discussion. No one said he didn't fail, or shouldn't fail. I feel like you're arguing with an imaginary version of me that never made the post you think I made. All I said was that he doesn't understand the fan complaints regarding the death and destruction.
 
Dahbomb said:
I am honestly shocked that WB messed such a pivotal movie up this bad and they allowed Snyder to get away with so much of it. I can't be the only one who thinks this too.

This is a $400+ million movie here that is setting up multiple movies of similar budget down the line. They couldn't have afforded to mess this one up this bad.
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It's basically times like these where I wonder why the hell they didn't go with the "safe" route and tried to make a very easy to get into, widely appealing movie. Even if it would get complaints on the internet by people who wanted something more experimental, maybe rightfully so.

Like I should be applauding them for not doing it but also I'm like "wtf were you thinking". Maybe they could have pulled it off if they had a director capable of making a film with some semblance of nuance.

Like I have friends reading about this movie kinda pissed that they can't take their kids to a Batman/Superman movie and enjoy it together. Part of me is glad we can get a superhero movie that isn't just dumbed down for kids and families, but also, it's Batman and Superman and I feel like everyone should be able to enjoy these characters on screen together for the first time. I'm very conflicted lol, I guess if it was just a better movie overall then I wouldn't care as much about the very narrow direction they are going in compared to say, Marvel (not saying their way of doing things is the right or only way, just different)
 
Veelk said:
But this was never the discussion. No one said he didn't fail, or shouldn't fail. I feel like you're arguing with an imaginary version of me that never made the post you think I made. All I said was that he doesn't understand the fan complaints regarding the death and destruction.
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I don't think you understand me. I wasn't arguing. I was corroborating, by pointing out that Superman has failed before and no one gave a flying shit.
 
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