No the bad "Feeling" comes from his conversation with Lex.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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No the bad "Feeling" comes from his conversation with Lex.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Finally saw it.
It's weird...it's about exactly what I expected like a week ago. I don't really care for the way Superman is portrayed in these movies but I'm willing to accept that's the direction they are going. But after the review shitshow I lowered my expectations considerably. Turns out it was exactly like I expected it to be which is...not terrible? It's about the same as MOS. I'm not sure why it is so much lower, it has basically the exact same strengths and weaknesses as MOS. Maybe people have Zack Snyder fatigue?
The only really disappointing thing was how lame the Doomsday fight was. The comic version was actually way more epic and I expected Snyder to go all out.
It's weird...it's about exactly what I expected like a week ago. I don't really care for the way Superman is portrayed in these movies but I'm willing to accept that's the direction they are going. But after the review shitshow I lowered my expectations considerably. Turns out it was exactly like I expected it to be which is...not terrible? It's about the same as MOS. I'm not sure why it is so much lower, it has basically the exact same strengths and weaknesses as MOS. Maybe people have Zack Snyder fatigue?
The only really disappointing thing was how lame the Doomsday fight was. The comic version was actually way more epic and I expected Snyder to go all out.
#NotMySuperman sums up the video
broncobuster
Banned
The visions are a hodgepodge. It's established early Bruce isn't all there and has nightmares. Bats levitating him as a child, giant bat attacking him in Martha's grave, Knightmare. If the Knightmare has basis in reality, as one of the possible futures, what does that say of the others? Or Clark's vision of Pa Kent?
It needed a device to work and I can come up with three easy ones. Wonder Woman's lasso, the same technology Zod used on Clark in MoS to drown in bones, or go nuts and open the film on the Knightmare. Frame it as the Flash going back to change the future.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Pretty sure that happened after.
The timeline gets kind of confused in that last bit though.
I wanted the end credit song to be more than a feeling so fucking bad.
ArgyleReptile
Banned
Found it visually appealing, but I can't say I liked how he story was put together. The little clips of the other heroes was the most appealing part. Except Cyborg. His sucked.
More like #NotMyDC
Yeah honestly would have ditched the bleeding coffin scenes and have a brief tease of the Knightmare sequence there.
Or maybe split it up. Do the fight there
Have him knocked out
Then go back to Superman holding him captive later on with The Flash warning.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, that was Vic Stone, on the slab, as it were. They're clearly changing things up a little bit from the origin version I'm familiar with.
Also, that was definitely a Motherbox. Verrrrrry curious to see where that goes.
BTW, I wouldn't write off the possibility that Lex isn't talking about Darkseid at the end. He's clearly unhinged by whatever he saw when he delved into the Kryptonian archive. I wouldn't discount the possibility of Braniac.
Badlucktroll
Member
I like when Batman is dragging Superman giving him a very dark lecture about their parents, while this music is playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0Ip-bNSXM&list=PLBKadB95sF44vjNzNABcYoF_7ae6lAgJM&index=6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0Ip-bNSXM&list=PLBKadB95sF44vjNzNABcYoF_7ae6lAgJM&index=6
ArgyleReptile
Banned
Yup, lol. I find it funny WW clicked right past his vid and went straight to Flash and Aquaman. Even in the film universe he comes off as an afterthought. He didn't even get to be bad ass. Flash saved someone and Aquaman wrecked some shit. Cyborg just sat there.
Aquaman had a PS1 era introduction too.
SamualDude
Member
Just got back from seeing it. Not sure on how I feel about it yet. Batfleck was very good and Wonder Woman was really cool.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Cyborg probably got saved for last because of a) the frankly creepy nature of his piece (bread, eggs, milk, squick), and b) the wider-universe implications of the Motherbox.
I don't understand how any of that shit happened.
I don't think anyone involved in the production of this motion picture knows either.
Martha was gagged in the photos.
I've seen it.
What I Liked:
What I Didn't Like:
Even though the list of negatives far outweighs the positives, I didn't hate the movie at all. I might have liked it more than Man of Steel, even though MoS was actually the better constructed movie. But there's just too much happening, a lot of it is either undercooked or just the flat out wrong direction imo, and the movie feels like a collection of missed opportunities than anything else. I'm not even really disappointed by it, probably given how much the reviews deflated my expectations. I'm just lukewarm to it and think this could have been much better in a lot of ways.
Maybe the weirdest thing of the whole movie: that the title was shoved all the way into the bottom right corner of the screen in small font. Like it was no big deal! That's how you're going to introduce something called "Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice"? So odd.
What I Liked:
- Affleck is a fine Batman and a better Bruce Wayne. Jeremy Irons is great as Alfred. I liked their rapport with one another and hope we see more of it in the future.
- Gadot doesn't get to do much as Wonder Woman, but she looks cool enough in the role at least. The audience only clapped once during the movie, and that was for WW's entrance in the final fight.
- I think Eisenberg is mostly ok. There are a few times where he really overdoes it, but I was fine with his performance more often than not.
- The first two sequences were nicely done, that Bruce-lifted-by-the-bats thing notwithstanding.
- Batman warehouse fight is cool. Batmobile and Batcave are also cool.
What I Didn't Like:
- Snyder's vision of Superman. He very clearly does not like or understand Superman as a character. He's more interested in the idea of Superman, and only insofar as he's about taking apart and criticizing and examining that idea. But there's very little of Superman doing good, being a hopeful inspiring shining example for the world, for that level of deconstruction to feel interesting. Instead it just comes off as unnecessarily mean-spirited.
- Consequently, Cavill is saddled with a lot of nothing. Because Superman is more of an idea and a plot device, his performance mostly looking forlorn or being looked at by angry/forlorn people. And the moments where Cavill is more in control of it, he plays it as too aggressive. Like, there are little things he could do with his facial reactions -- a smirk, a wink -- that could go a long way in making this feel like Superman, but he doesn't make those choices and Snyder doesn't guide him to them.
- The world's reaction to Superman feels really unearned. Surprisingly, the devastation of Metropolis doesn't play much into the world's -- or Batman's -- antagonism toward Superman. What's he really blamed for is the Capitol bombing, which he had nothing to do with, and those terrorists being shot in Africa, which he also had nothing to do with, but even if it did, why does anyone give a shit?
- Consequently, Batman's antipathy about Superman feels really flimsy, and the conflict itself doesn't amount to a lot. It's a pretty short fight, there isn't a lot of oomph to it, and it ends awfully quickly. I get what Snyder was going with the Martha realization (and it's a neat idea that I'm surprised has never come up before), but eh, I don't know if I buy it all that much in execution.
- The Justice League inserts. Holy shit, this stuff makes Iron Man 2 look subtle. The Knightmare sequences were confusing, unnecessary, and awkwardly placed. The Flash cameo is just as egregious. Bruce discovering the WWI photo of Diana, or Diana looking at the files of the other heroes, is probably the least distracting fanservice/teasing but again it's totally pointless. The ending seems to imply that Lex has some sort of connection to Darkseid, or is at least aware of Darkseid coming to Earth? But this never factors into the rest of the movie at all and feels like something they thought up on the spot to tease JL. As someone who likes these shared universes and is generally fine, if not excited, by a lot of these kinds of teases, I felt the ones in this movie were completely ill-conceived.
- Death of Superman. Other than to really hammer home the Jesus parallel, why bother? We know he's in Justice League, and the movie even teases his resurrection at the very end. I don't hate the idea, it just seems unnecessary.
- Scoot McNairy's character. If he was meant to be a human face to the collateral damage that results from Superman and we were meant to feel sympathetic for him, Snyder and Terrio totally fucking failed. McNairy plays easily the most unlikable character in the movie, and that includes Doomsday. Speaking of which...
- Doomsday! His origin makes no sense (so he comes from a line of ancient Kryptonian monsters? why does that require Lex's blood? what was Lex going to do with him afterward?), his design and movements are complete Hulk/Abomination rip-offs, and the fight is surprisingly not that great. It's not very long and you don't see a whole lot of it. I wish they would have brought Zod's personality into Doomsday, it would have made the mutual killing of him and Supes more meaningful I think.
- There's generally just too much going on, particularly in the first hour to 90 minutes. The movie rushes from one scene to the next with little connections or elaborations, and because there's so much crammed into this story, nothing gets a lot of breathing room and none of the characters feel like they get enough to do. This is probably the thing that concerns me most about a Snyder/Terrio Justice League, because if they struggle this much just to balance this amount of characters, how are they going to handle a team of six superheroes?
Even though the list of negatives far outweighs the positives, I didn't hate the movie at all. I might have liked it more than Man of Steel, even though MoS was actually the better constructed movie. But there's just too much happening, a lot of it is either undercooked or just the flat out wrong direction imo, and the movie feels like a collection of missed opportunities than anything else. I'm not even really disappointed by it, probably given how much the reviews deflated my expectations. I'm just lukewarm to it and think this could have been much better in a lot of ways.
Maybe the weirdest thing of the whole movie: that the title was shoved all the way into the bottom right corner of the screen in small font. Like it was no big deal! That's how you're going to introduce something called "Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice"? So odd.
Smokey_Run
Member
Figured I'd make my way in here after stopping in the DC thread.
I liked the movie, but didn't love it. I think there is a better movie to be found in there without a doubt. The first hour is a fucking mess when it comes to editing and pacing. Maybe the 30 minutes are primarily cut from there, who knows, but it certainly felt like it.
I didn't need the Wayne murders twice, once would have been enough. It should have been shown when Bruce is having his little PTSD flashbacks when Superman starts talking about Martha. But the title sequence was pretty cool.
Aquaman cameo should have just been him coming up to the hole so you see his face, disappearing back into the darkness and the trident destroying the camera. It was just strange. Cameos in general weren't needed. Just show the file with the logos and be done with it.
I didn't mind Batman killing. Sadly, I think it's lost that Bruce/Batman has become more brutal since the Metropolis attacks. Alfred hints at this when he drops the Bat Brand of Justice newspaper in front of him. The warehouse stuff is whatever. You have someone who has clear PTSD issues going to save a mother named Martha, dude just didn't give a fuck and probably felt he was trying to save his own mother in a sense.
Lex.. Lex is whatever. I think I would have rather preferred the traditional take, but I'm hoping the turn at the end can bring him around. Also, get rid of the Lex theme.
That brings me to the next point, the soundtrack. I thought it was hot garbage and took me out of the movie. The theme blaring anytime you see anyone... just stop. The Lex theme in particularly. Lex performance + Lex theme = snickering and laughing in my theater each time.. and not in a good way. They need to either find someone new moving forward or someone needs to give them better advice on what they want in terms of score. The best stuff is just the stuff they reused from Man of Steel. Batman shows up *opening bits of the theme*, Batman is over there *same opening bits of the theme*, Batman pops up and shoots a gas grenade *same opening bits of the theme*. I just wanted it to stop.
Gal is serviceable, but I'm not sure she can carry her own movie. Doomsday felt thrown away, but that's just CBM villains in general these days. The rest of the cast was good, no complaints. Henry is doing what he can with what he's given, but I'd like to open it up a bit more for the man.
I can't think of anything else right now.
I liked the movie, but didn't love it. I think there is a better movie to be found in there without a doubt. The first hour is a fucking mess when it comes to editing and pacing. Maybe the 30 minutes are primarily cut from there, who knows, but it certainly felt like it.
I didn't need the Wayne murders twice, once would have been enough. It should have been shown when Bruce is having his little PTSD flashbacks when Superman starts talking about Martha. But the title sequence was pretty cool.
Aquaman cameo should have just been him coming up to the hole so you see his face, disappearing back into the darkness and the trident destroying the camera. It was just strange. Cameos in general weren't needed. Just show the file with the logos and be done with it.
I didn't mind Batman killing. Sadly, I think it's lost that Bruce/Batman has become more brutal since the Metropolis attacks. Alfred hints at this when he drops the Bat Brand of Justice newspaper in front of him. The warehouse stuff is whatever. You have someone who has clear PTSD issues going to save a mother named Martha, dude just didn't give a fuck and probably felt he was trying to save his own mother in a sense.
Lex.. Lex is whatever. I think I would have rather preferred the traditional take, but I'm hoping the turn at the end can bring him around. Also, get rid of the Lex theme.
That brings me to the next point, the soundtrack. I thought it was hot garbage and took me out of the movie. The theme blaring anytime you see anyone... just stop. The Lex theme in particularly. Lex performance + Lex theme = snickering and laughing in my theater each time.. and not in a good way. They need to either find someone new moving forward or someone needs to give them better advice on what they want in terms of score. The best stuff is just the stuff they reused from Man of Steel. Batman shows up *opening bits of the theme*, Batman is over there *same opening bits of the theme*, Batman pops up and shoots a gas grenade *same opening bits of the theme*. I just wanted it to stop.
Gal is serviceable, but I'm not sure she can carry her own movie. Doomsday felt thrown away, but that's just CBM villains in general these days. The rest of the cast was good, no complaints. Henry is doing what he can with what he's given, but I'd like to open it up a bit more for the man.
I can't think of anything else right now.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I disagree strenuously with the idea that this movie is in any way a deconstruction of Superman. A decon/recon at most, an outright reconstruction more like.
I kind of hope the scientist was John Henry Irons just because he fit Max Landis's black uncle stereotype.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't know what that means, but I'm pretty sure he straight up says he's Silas Stone.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Darkseid is coming to earth.
Martha Kent dies and it pushes Superman over the edge and he joins Darkseid.
Flash goes back in time to warn Batman not to let her die.
She doesn't die, but Darkseid is still coming.
Now they have at least a chance with Superman.
Justice League part 1 coming summer 2017
Just got back from seeing it. Was awesome. Is Batman just out here killing people though lol, dragging the charger/challenger with the batmobile had to kill the people in it right ? and blowing up the cars when he went to save Clark's mom.
Im still iffy about the take on Lex in this movie, it was a good performance but idk if I like it being Lex.
Im still iffy about the take on Lex in this movie, it was a good performance but idk if I like it being Lex.
Probably right. It was in his Death of Superman Internet video. He just had Steel as a tired overweight black uncle. Entertaining enough video.
TheSlySoul
Member
Court room scene. OMG, the court room scene!!!!!
Pee jar, boom, Sad Kenu Supes.
Pee jar, boom, Sad Kenu Supes.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I thought the same thing but probably for completely different reasons.
The city of Reasonable Script Writing...oh wait.
The ocean in a frame for frame Thunderball remake.
Actually it's Lois that pushes Clark over the edge. Flash tells Bruce that Lois is the key, and in the sequence Supes tells Bruce that "she was my world". Ghost dad tells Clark that things got better when he met Ma Kent, and that she was his world, and the last words Clark says to Lois are that "you're my world". Along with the bathtub scene in the beginning, the movie is very subtle about Supes losing his shit over Lois.
serenewarfare
Banned
I think the point of that was to refute Bruce's comment while they were fighting. Bruce dislikes Clark because as he says "Men are brave, you aren't". Sacrificing himself helped drive home the point that he is brave and willing to sacrifice everything. It a part of the whole "Bruce is wrong about the world" thing that the film does in the end.
I knew what I was being shown, but exactly how did Batman get that vision? And why was Flash's message in a dream?
This shit right here.
This is half-baked as all fuck. Including the whole Darkseid premonition itself. And at the end it almost seems like Lex knows he's coming as well. The fuck is that all about?
DeadlyVirus
Member
That WW scene where she is checking the footage of Flash and Aquaman could have well been a end credits scene
Dash_Riprock
Member
Hey well, thats one thing Marvel and DC cinematic universes have in common: Their attempts to introduce the big team up villains are piss awful.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
It was more like a vision then a dream but you are correct that it was half baked.
Flash can obviously run back in time, but I'm not sure how he brought the vision with him.
I think they just wanted a cool future vision to be in the movie.
I really feel we're getting a Flashpoint movie in the future pretty soon.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
So we've got:
Time-traveling Flash
Parademons
Omega Symbol
A MotherBox
Darkseid
Death of Superman
Any other references I missed?
Great movie by the way despite the issues.
Time-traveling Flash
Parademons
Omega Symbol
A MotherBox
Darkseid
Death of Superman
Any other references I missed?
Great movie by the way despite the issues.
The whole metahumans stuff was so out of left field too.
"BTW, metahumans and stuff."
"Aight."
Poodlestrike
Banned
Gotham is fine. Batman deliberately staged his fight with Supes in an abandoned quarter of the city.
Yes, exactly this. Superman dies saving the earth. Hell, he nearly does so twice. The whole point is to reject fear and pessimism.
Because the Flash can time travel duh. It's pretty clear that he managed to get a vision of a possible future back to Bats somehow. Who cares about the physics of it, the answer is just gonna be comic book science anyway.
I don't think Lex is talking about Darkseid, btw. He was clearly exposed to something by the Kryptonian archive, more likely to be Brainiac.
Well, based on the conversation it sounds like Lex summoned Darkseid or some alien being while he was in the downed ship.
That's why he is saying the bell can't be unrung or w/e
More like they noticed not a single action scene had happened in like 45 minutes, and they needed something to keep audiences from falling asleep.
Christopher Nolan made more accessible and mainstream-friendly comic book movies. That's really amazing.
Lights and Waves
Member
Just saw the film and honestly I don't understand what the reviewers were thinking, I thought the movie was amazing!
Poodlestrike
Banned
I think the bell was more referring the Superman's "death." A little bit like that "made god bleed" bit from Iron Man 2 (which was actually a pretty cool moment).
It's absolutely a deconstruction. This is not a movie about Superman, good guy, doing good things and everyone loves him for it. It's about the cost of, and potential shittiness that comes from, Superman trying to do good things.
……forgetit
Member
Oh my God I have not laughed that hard in a long time, just describing the nightmare sequences made most of my friends die laughing after seeing this movie. The level of insanity on display in this film was amazing. Everyone go see this film, I need more Zach Snyder superhero movies. I need to see his Justice League.
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