So imagine The Dark Knight Returns
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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So imagine The Dark Knight Returns
I was just wondering like why? All he did was reiterate Lois's "actions have consequences" bit.
I don't like Dark Knight Return's much, but this movie made me appreciate it more. The fight in this movie feels like it happen to justify the title of the movie and not much else. DKR always felt to me two old men hashing out a pointless ideological fight on the street in any case it had more weight.
Wow...not the movie I was expecting to see. After swimming through the ocean of pessimism, mediocrity, and downright terror- I clung to the few safety floats of positivity, hoping they would help keep me from drowning in the cesspool of despair and denial- then I saw the movie. I tried my hardest to enjoy the movie to the best of my ability, but I failed. All I could muster was a range of emotion that went from genuine excitement to borderline interest to eventual boredom. I was basically in 'meh' mode for most of the movie, save for a couple brief moments of excitement.
I guess I'll collect my thoughts and splurge in no defined order.
Affleck and Alfred were fine in their roles, no issues there. I just had a hard time digesting batman outright killing people. I knew he would be killing people and believed I could handle that sort of tone for his character- but, it seemed off. He just didn't feel like batman anymore. I think for me to believe that behavior, I would have needed a solo film or the movie to delve deeper into how he got to that breaking point. Sure, it's referenced in some dialogue why he's like that, but that doesn't do it for me- my mind can't be immersed in it. Yes, a lot of these cinematic heroes, marvel included, are practically killing villains and it's easy to tell if a person should have died, but batman is fucking brutal. Superman as well.
Gadot was fine as wonder woman, and she was good in the end fight- practically the highest point of the movie, where they are working together. That was some good shit, but that didn't last long. Everyone was loving it when the trinity was interacting with each other, the chemistry was on point. As for the resolution of the fight- "meh".
The cameos were cringe worthy. Like, why??? There must have been a better way to introduce them.
When Snyder introduced his more realistic superhero take with Man of Steel( like a 6.5/10 for me) , of course, I was on board- coming from my Dark Knight high. But, I don't know what to make of the tone going forward for this universe. I feel like I do want a bit more of a realistic take than what Marvel is giving me- but, it's coming at the expense of these characters' likeability. It felt a little too dark and I thought I would be up for that tone. I envision something like the justice league animated series as ideal, but if the JL film is supposedly lighter in tone maybe we'll get there. It just felt a lot less like a superhero movie and more about a whole bunch of other shit, which it is. It needed to focus on a few concepts/aspects and could have been much better for it. I didn't enjoy the batman and superman fight that much- superman got duped hard and I am even team batman.
Superman had some progression which was nice but how he got there was like wtf. Point being, the scenes are there, but their depth and time spent focusing on specific themes/character development is lacking. I can't get invested in an idea or concept with just: a couple of scenes that delve into said subject matter, erratic jumping that kills pace and immersion, overused hallucinations(yes, yes, darkseid and what the hell are you doing here Pa?!). I understood most scenes and their purpose, but all I was left with was a sense of indifference and disbelief- that I was hoping the film would end soon. Also, tired of Lois being used in the story so much, but that's probably a superman thing, and NO!!! I can't do Jesse as Lex- maybe... if he doesn't snivel like a rat in the next movie. Not sure who's fault it is, but I just don't like his current persona.
Bottom line: 5/10 and that's coming from someone that prefers the DC universe over Marvel. I am even more demotivated when it comes to comic book movies, but, I wanted to watch this for myself to form my own opinion. This wasn't the first dud, but there was a lot riding on this movie. I hope Suicide Squad is good but not sure how much I will truly enjoy this cinematic universe. There are marvel movies I am looking forward to but didn't want to muddy the waters.
I guess I'll collect my thoughts and splurge in no defined order.
Affleck and Alfred were fine in their roles, no issues there. I just had a hard time digesting batman outright killing people. I knew he would be killing people and believed I could handle that sort of tone for his character- but, it seemed off. He just didn't feel like batman anymore. I think for me to believe that behavior, I would have needed a solo film or the movie to delve deeper into how he got to that breaking point. Sure, it's referenced in some dialogue why he's like that, but that doesn't do it for me- my mind can't be immersed in it. Yes, a lot of these cinematic heroes, marvel included, are practically killing villains and it's easy to tell if a person should have died, but batman is fucking brutal. Superman as well.
Gadot was fine as wonder woman, and she was good in the end fight- practically the highest point of the movie, where they are working together. That was some good shit, but that didn't last long. Everyone was loving it when the trinity was interacting with each other, the chemistry was on point. As for the resolution of the fight- "meh".
The cameos were cringe worthy. Like, why??? There must have been a better way to introduce them.
When Snyder introduced his more realistic superhero take with Man of Steel( like a 6.5/10 for me) , of course, I was on board- coming from my Dark Knight high. But, I don't know what to make of the tone going forward for this universe. I feel like I do want a bit more of a realistic take than what Marvel is giving me- but, it's coming at the expense of these characters' likeability. It felt a little too dark and I thought I would be up for that tone. I envision something like the justice league animated series as ideal, but if the JL film is supposedly lighter in tone maybe we'll get there. It just felt a lot less like a superhero movie and more about a whole bunch of other shit, which it is. It needed to focus on a few concepts/aspects and could have been much better for it. I didn't enjoy the batman and superman fight that much- superman got duped hard and I am even team batman.
Superman had some progression which was nice but how he got there was like wtf. Point being, the scenes are there, but their depth and time spent focusing on specific themes/character development is lacking. I can't get invested in an idea or concept with just: a couple of scenes that delve into said subject matter, erratic jumping that kills pace and immersion, overused hallucinations(yes, yes, darkseid and what the hell are you doing here Pa?!). I understood most scenes and their purpose, but all I was left with was a sense of indifference and disbelief- that I was hoping the film would end soon. Also, tired of Lois being used in the story so much, but that's probably a superman thing, and NO!!! I can't do Jesse as Lex- maybe... if he doesn't snivel like a rat in the next movie. Not sure who's fault it is, but I just don't like his current persona.
Bottom line: 5/10 and that's coming from someone that prefers the DC universe over Marvel. I am even more demotivated when it comes to comic book movies, but, I wanted to watch this for myself to form my own opinion. This wasn't the first dud, but there was a lot riding on this movie. I hope Suicide Squad is good but not sure how much I will truly enjoy this cinematic universe. There are marvel movies I am looking forward to but didn't want to muddy the waters.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Me. One, another fucking dream sequence, and two, Pa Kent is one of the two serious problems I had with MoS.
Pa Kent's didacticisms in the DC Cinematic Universe are warped.
I can't believe they just had Wonder Woman* plop down on her computer and have the audience watch teasers over her shoulder for other DC heroes movies one after the other.
Well the movie wasn't really ever subtle so I don't know why I'd be surprised.
Edit:
*whoops
Well the movie wasn't really ever subtle so I don't know why I'd be surprised.
Edit:
*whoops
Well, wonder woman, actually
keltickennedy
Member
Another thing that bummed me out after seeing this movie...we will never get a proper Dark Knight Returns or a Death of Superman movie. All this shit was pulled and implanted in the movie for no real reason. Nothing was built up. Think how great it would of been having the Batman v Superman fight AFTER the multiple movies dealing with the Justice League heores. Giving these two characters true history.
Still it's worse than how Sony handled the Sinister Six teaser.
SJRB
Gold Member
Diana reading Bruce's mail and scrolling down line by line in a dramatic way was one of the silliest moments in this movie.
"It IS you, isn't it?"
WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE
Yes, we get it - she's Wonder Woman. We get that the moment we see the picture [assuming you didn't know Gale Galot was WW in the first place].
I have no idea why the movie did that.
to go get lex luthor, which let them release doomsday.
Over to the crashed ship for the Doomsday reveal.
The Bruce Wayne work out/prep time montage was pretty dope to be honest.
It feels like there's a good movie in there if you edit out all the unnecessary JL scenes and fluff scenes like Clark Kent taking a hike in the Himalayas and stumbling upon Pa Kent.
The stuff between the Senate bombing and the actual BvS fight needed to be cut down dramatically. Completely crushes the pace and intensity of the movie.
I swear people can put up random clips of the movies on youtube and no one would think it's a mess of a movie. This movie is very clearly lesser than the sum of its part.
It feels like there's a good movie in there if you edit out all the unnecessary JL scenes and fluff scenes like Clark Kent taking a hike in the Himalayas and stumbling upon Pa Kent.
The stuff between the Senate bombing and the actual BvS fight needed to be cut down dramatically. Completely crushes the pace and intensity of the movie.
I swear people can put up random clips of the movies on youtube and no one would think it's a mess of a movie. This movie is very clearly lesser than the sum of its part.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Saw it today, still very mixed feelings about it. Normally I walk out the cinema having enjoyed a movie but this time I'm really not sure and I don't feel the need to see it again until the blu-ray.
The good.
Ben Affleck was great as Batman, like a lot of people have said before, he is probably the best thing in the movie, even if they don't 100% nail the character. (see bad stuff below)
The Batman / Superman fight was great, if a little on the short side. The Batman taking out the armed bad guys scene (from the trailer) is awesome too.
Jeremy Irons was a good Alfred, Henry Carvill and Amy Adams were both fine too.
Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman was fine and I'd like to see more of her but she's not given much to do here and didn't really need to be in the movie.
The Bad.
Far too much going on, feels like 4 movies crammed into one and it makes it feel uneven and rushed in places.
Batman is straight up murdering people here. His non kill code has gone right out the window. Yes I know he's killed before but he tries not to kill normally, yet here he gives no shits. (If they do a Batman movie without all the killing, this is a damn near perfect Batman)
Superman kills a guy at the start (smashing that guy through a wall, that guy is dead for sure)
Doomsday was wasted here. They just turned him into a Lord of the Rings cave troll with laser eyes and he didn't feel like a big threat like he was in the Death of Superman comic. This story needed it's own movie, maybe one of the Justice League movies.
Luther didn't do it for me either.
The dream sequences come out of nowhere and feel very odd compared to the rest of the movie.
The trailers really did show most of the movie.
Overall it had a few great bits but sadly it left me disappointed.
The good.
Ben Affleck was great as Batman, like a lot of people have said before, he is probably the best thing in the movie, even if they don't 100% nail the character. (see bad stuff below)
The Batman / Superman fight was great, if a little on the short side. The Batman taking out the armed bad guys scene (from the trailer) is awesome too.
Jeremy Irons was a good Alfred, Henry Carvill and Amy Adams were both fine too.
Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman was fine and I'd like to see more of her but she's not given much to do here and didn't really need to be in the movie.
The Bad.
Far too much going on, feels like 4 movies crammed into one and it makes it feel uneven and rushed in places.
Batman is straight up murdering people here. His non kill code has gone right out the window. Yes I know he's killed before but he tries not to kill normally, yet here he gives no shits. (If they do a Batman movie without all the killing, this is a damn near perfect Batman)
Superman kills a guy at the start (smashing that guy through a wall, that guy is dead for sure)
Doomsday was wasted here. They just turned him into a Lord of the Rings cave troll with laser eyes and he didn't feel like a big threat like he was in the Death of Superman comic. This story needed it's own movie, maybe one of the Justice League movies.
Luther didn't do it for me either.
The dream sequences come out of nowhere and feel very odd compared to the rest of the movie.
The trailers really did show most of the movie.
Overall it had a few great bits but sadly it left me disappointed.
broncobuster
Banned
The events are concurrent and not edited well to convey it. Keep in mind, Batman is returning at or after the nuke. As Bats is saving Martha and the warehouse fight, Superman confronts Lex and fights Doomsday into space.
To: <theg0damnbatman@waynetech.net>
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From: <amazonslayerfan69@gmail.com>
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Subject: YO GET HYPE! [1 IMG ATT]
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I can't believe the horrendous writing in this movie, especially for Lex. I honestly expected him to be entertaining, from the trailers, but everything about his characterization was just repugnant.
Really? He humiliates and degrades that senator by making her drink his piss (before he kills her), and then kidnaps and gags Martha Kent, scribbles the word WITCH on her forehead and takes some Polaroids? The best villains are the ones you love to hate, not the ones you can't bring yourself to take seriously. But I guess when the protagonists act like petulant man-children, it's unreasonable to expect a strongly written villain.
Superman can superhear Lois drowning from miles away, but he just instantly capitulates to a brain-dead threat? Without even bothering to use his x-ray vision to search an abandoned warehouse or two for his adopted mother? Holy shit, that contrivance, and Lex Luthor being a fucking disgusting pig instead of a legitimate menacing threat, killed this movie.
Not the cardboard cutout Superman, not the psychotically dense Batman. Lex Luthor, and the inexcusably crass shit the lazy writing made him do just to get us to hate him.
Really? He humiliates and degrades that senator by making her drink his piss (before he kills her), and then kidnaps and gags Martha Kent, scribbles the word WITCH on her forehead and takes some Polaroids? The best villains are the ones you love to hate, not the ones you can't bring yourself to take seriously. But I guess when the protagonists act like petulant man-children, it's unreasonable to expect a strongly written villain.
Superman can superhear Lois drowning from miles away, but he just instantly capitulates to a brain-dead threat? Without even bothering to use his x-ray vision to search an abandoned warehouse or two for his adopted mother? Holy shit, that contrivance, and Lex Luthor being a fucking disgusting pig instead of a legitimate menacing threat, killed this movie.
Not the cardboard cutout Superman, not the psychotically dense Batman. Lex Luthor, and the inexcusably crass shit the lazy writing made him do just to get us to hate him.
To: <theg0damnbatman@waynetech.net>
From: <amazonslayerfan69@gmail.com>
Subject: YO GET HYPE! [1 IMG ATT]
justice league, time boiii <3 :3
Download ↓
ps. call me l8r?
Sent from my iPhone
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Yo Spartacus as Aquaman?To: <theg0damnbatman@waynetech.net>
From: <amazonslayerfan69@gmail.com>
Subject: YO GET HYPE! [1 IMG ATT]
justice league, time boiii <3 :3
Download ↓
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Sent from my iPhone
Tight tight tight!
flaxknuckles
Member
The more I hear about this movie the less I want to even bother with waiting for the extended edition. Maybe I just won't watch this crap.
But somehow, he only arrives there after Bats has already saved Martha. That part has some serious continuity problems, like how Batman was even able to make it in time. He changes into his regular costume, hops in his Batplane and locates her in seconds.
Moreover, why couldn't superman locate martha to begin with?
When superman was laying dead, in the background there was a broken telephone pole in the shape of a cross.
The man has never even heard of the word subtle.
Pops Maellard
Member
Spider-Man 3 is a fantastic exercise in restraint compared to this film. S3 is a better experience from every perspective.
Mangoverboard
Banned
Any reason for why Supes was dragging that ship in the montage of him saving people? Fucking thing was sideways
BVS is better. People like ViewtifulJC will try to come in and say how the Tobey Maguire dance sequence is a stroke of genius and will be utterly wrong.
BvS has less raw bad parts than SM3.
Motherfucker died for his own goddamn sins, far as I'm concerned.
Lifejumper
Member
Why is batman killing people in cold blood? Why is superman so grim all the time? Why did superman and batman stop fighting? (Dont tell me because their mothers name are the same) What the fuck brehs.
I came into BvS expecting Spider Man 3 and still left disappointed
What did he mean by this?
Member
The two situations are different.
Spiderman 3 had too many plots crammed in: Symbiote suit crisis, culmination of Osbourne's revenge+dumb amensia, origin of Sandman+integration into Uncle Ben's death. BvS just has too many cameos.
roflwaffles
Member
I love how the email footage has the Flash has a gas station.
When Bruce sees him in that dream or w/e, he literally looks like he's wearing the gas station.
When Bruce sees him in that dream or w/e, he literally looks like he's wearing the gas station.
He stopped off for coffee I assume.
But seriously Batman was seconds away from murdering a man in cold blood for theoretical future crimes.
But his murder resolve was so shaky Supes saying the fairly common name Martha stayed his hand?
If you actually read comics, you'd know that the Speed Force IS a gas station.
That was really lame. It literally changes nothing about why Batman wanted to kill him in the first place. Superman is still an alien who could eventually wipe out humanity if he so chose, no matter who his adopted mom was. It don't make no sense
I cannot tell if this film is utterly riddled with plot holes, or if I am just missing a ton of vital information because I kinda lost interest in following the plot. Here's several issues off the top of my head:
How close are Metropolis and Gotham supposed to be? I thought the two cities were supposed to be relatively far apart, but I guess they are like right across the bay from one another? Why does Lois Lane need a plane ticket to go to Gotham in one scene, but arrives reasonably fast in a helicopter later? How many miles of open country did Batman cross while Doomsday was chasing him back to Gotham?
How did Batman find Martha Kent?
How did Superman and Batman find out each others' secret identities?
Why did Lois chuck the kryptonite blade down the well? How is it that she decided to retrieve it even before she knew what was going on with Doomsday?
Why would Luthor chuck Lois off a roof when he has no indication that Superman even knows about the peril she's in?
Is the ability to exclusively hear his loved ones in peril a part of Superman's abilities? Or is that some bullshit thrown into this film and then immediately disregarded?
How close are Metropolis and Gotham supposed to be? I thought the two cities were supposed to be relatively far apart, but I guess they are like right across the bay from one another? Why does Lois Lane need a plane ticket to go to Gotham in one scene, but arrives reasonably fast in a helicopter later? How many miles of open country did Batman cross while Doomsday was chasing him back to Gotham?
How did Batman find Martha Kent?
How did Superman and Batman find out each others' secret identities?
Why did Lois chuck the kryptonite blade down the well? How is it that she decided to retrieve it even before she knew what was going on with Doomsday?
Why would Luthor chuck Lois off a roof when he has no indication that Superman even knows about the peril she's in?
Is the ability to exclusively hear his loved ones in peril a part of Superman's abilities? Or is that some bullshit thrown into this film and then immediately disregarded?
Spider-Man 3. It's not even close.
Wow, that article positions itself like it's a cute bit of BTS trivia, but it's actually a catalog of a truly terrible decision-making process.
Snyder, why are you telling us that you were actively considering casting Bryan Cranston as a traditional Lex Luthor, but then abandoned it on a whim to cast Jesse Eisenberg?
Why, if the point of the original Jimmy idea was to surprise the audience by killing off a notable character played by a recognizable actor, does the final product neither name him nor feature a recognizable actor in the role?
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