PhoncipleBone
Banned
Was it only twice? It felt like more than that.
Batman > Superman: Dawn of Justice |OT| Enter the Knightmare
- Thread starter MisterHero
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Garrett 2U
Member
I'm sure they felt forced to tell the story again in BvS due to the moment when
Batman and Superman bond over their mothers having the same first name. Even though that moment is stupid as hell.
Ascenion
Member
More concerned with the take on the origin story. I don't feel Thomas Wayne would've tried to punch a guy with a gun. Not to mention I'm almost positive it happens in an alley and not on what appeared to be a Main Street. Zack Snyder you need to actually read the material you adapt.
You're crazy if you think they won't continue this for origin movies. Dr. Strange specifically. TV shows are different because you have 13 hours to explain their motives and history.
a·dapt
əˈdapt/Submit
verb
make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify.
Team Filler
Member
Bruce seeing that happen whenever he closes his eyes is comic book accurate, not sure why it'd be a problem.
Like the rest of the hate parade for the movie, the origin story is being overblown and worked in the overall story.
Are you talking about the Crime Alley incident or his personal journey to become Batman? Because while the two are intertwined, they both occupy separate parts of his history.
Davey Cakes
Member
You're right that IM2 was boring. I haven't seen Ant Man.
But, for everything BvS did or tried to do, it was pretty damn boring. Sorry that I feel that way but I'm obviously not alone.
The elements were there and just didn't come together.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
His parent's murder specifically.
roflwaffles
Member
I'm not big on AoU, but that's a much better group shot than the original. That first one looked like it belonged on the Sci-fi channel.
Wait
This isn't just a 4chan copypasta? That actually happens?
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
To be honest, that was an awesome and pretty dark shot. I knew the movie was going dark places with a point blank shot to the face for Bruce's mom. This movie is all about explaining why Bruce is a jaded man.
The emotion he feels about losing those close to him guides his actions throughout, including trying to save people in Metropolis, trying to kill a threat in Superman, and eventually letting up on Superman when he finds out that Supes isnt just some alien, he has a family that loves him.
Probably Batman Begins in the movies, but in the comics, literally every team that's worked on it has done their "spin" on it. Most iconic is probably the ones Frank Miller did in The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Year One, but I really like the way it was handled in the Arkham games as well.
wut
Haha, I fucking love Deadpool but that was a terrible example.
More_Badass
Member
It's a dream
Buba Big Guns
Banned
This movie was an incoherent mess until the BvS fight, after that it was decent.
Batman carried the movie.
WW is sexy af and awesome, but completely shoehorned in. That's not how you introduce a character.
Lois was a total scrub and completely useless.
Action scenes, especially WW and Batman were great.
I never notice the editing in movies, but this was so jarring. The movie was extremely weird.
overall: what the fuck/10
How is it that marvel can pump out a really good antman movie, but DC cant even get a movie about two of the most popular heroes right?
Batman carried the movie.
WW is sexy af and awesome, but completely shoehorned in. That's not how you introduce a character.
Lois was a total scrub and completely useless.
Action scenes, especially WW and Batman were great.
I never notice the editing in movies, but this was so jarring. The movie was extremely weird.
Batman wins, as expected.
overall: what the fuck/10
How is it that marvel can pump out a really good antman movie, but DC cant even get a movie about two of the most popular heroes right?
More_Badass
Member
Personally I'd say it's more Snyder than DC. Ayer and Suicide Squad look like a good match
TheGreatDirector
Banned
DC seems more director focused than Marvel which is more producer focused in influence. If anything Ayer should deliver a much better product than BvS and Man of Steel based on his track record for writing and his directing recently.
Antman was generic garbage. It felt really cheap, like one really long TV show
It's a dream sequence...
Ascenion
Member
I get that. It's just that for me it changes the entire dynamic of the murder, not to mention now people question if that hadn't happened would they even have been shot. The Wayne's death is like a fixed time point, the movie and the alley change but the nature of it doesn't. I'm sitting here questioning Thomas' character now.
FiveSix4Three
Member
Just got home from a late showing. I have just two points to make before bed.
1. Affleck is a bad ass Batman.
2. Zack Snyder makes bad movies.
1. Affleck is a bad ass Batman.
2. Zack Snyder makes bad movies.
Just got home. I hated it. God I just wanted it to end. By the end I was internally screaming "JUST KILL DOOMSDAY ALREADY!" The characters were all boring as shit, especially Superman and Lex was fucking obnoxious. I think the only things I liked were the music (Lex and Wonder Woman's themes were fantastic), Alfred, the intro, the warehouse fight and Wonder Woman. She was cool. By the time Supes and Batman started fighting, I just didn't give a shit anymore. The ending was stupid.
I just saw him survive a nuke with just some scratches and a slightly deformed face. Don't try to convince me that he's dead.
he was weakened by kryptonite, that's why he was able to be killed.
Not that I want to get in the way of accusing someone of not having read TDKR, but...
I just thought of that lol. I guess my brain turned off at that point. You win that round, movie. I still don't like you though.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Well that was shit.
I wanted to like this movie so badly, but I couldn't. Writing was terrible, Lex Luthor was laughably bad, and my god was Superman terrible.
Batman was good, but nothing too noteworthy besides the Batmobile, and the score was really good.
Ultimately, for me it did nothing @ all. It was not a good movie, and not even a fun one at that. It was the first movie that made me contemplate leaving the Theater.
I wanted to like this movie so badly, but I couldn't. Writing was terrible, Lex Luthor was laughably bad, and my god was Superman terrible.
Batman was good, but nothing too noteworthy besides the Batmobile, and the score was really good.
Ultimately, for me it did nothing @ all. It was not a good movie, and not even a fun one at that. It was the first movie that made me contemplate leaving the Theater.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Burton's Batman.
Though I really, really give mad props to Shumaker's Forever on dealing with the psyche of Batman through his recovery on that aspect.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So is it true that Supes actually didn't get much stupidity in his side, other than certain scenes?
It definitely would have worked better had they released a batman movie first. The movie felt like it was telling three different stories. Batmans, Supermans, and Luthors. Cutting between those three characters and setting them up is what made the first half of the movie feel so weird. Wonder Woman had nothing to do with it. Other than the email part at the end, the scenes involving her felt pretty natural.
The problem is that we've had so many batman movies recently. I can see why WB and Snyder would be hesitant to give him his own movie again before they set up some of the other major players in the universe.
Ascenion
Member
Accuse me. I stand corrected. I don't particularly care for Frank Miller (He's on the same list I have Daniel Way on and it isn't a good one) and my main Batman source took issue with it too. Not to mention every other version I've ever seen has never had the punch.
So reading the posts here, Luthor didn't really improve in non trailer scenes? Thought they would intentionally show him in trailers that way and then in the movie he would have some change/badass scenes where people would change their mind about him.
Probably going next week into this. Baffels my mind how you can botch a fucking Batman Vs Superman movie (with a RT lower 40). I like Cavil but maybe he should just be a supermodel with his face.
Hope this doesn't cripple Suicide Squads BO start but trailers show that it's going to be a bit different in tone.
Probably going next week into this. Baffels my mind how you can botch a fucking Batman Vs Superman movie (with a RT lower 40). I like Cavil but maybe he should just be a supermodel with his face.
Hope this doesn't cripple Suicide Squads BO start but trailers show that it's going to be a bit different in tone.
Just got out of the theater.
Movie was a mess. Editing is inconsistent, it just jumps all over the place.
First act was a snoozefest. I could tell the some people are getting bored out of their minds.
Second Act was okay. Although Superman's arc isn't really that interesting and Cavill's acting was awful.
Third act is hype. Batman was awesome but didn't do shit against doomsday which was disappointing.
I also think the Wonder Woman's scene in thr hotel is misplaced. That could have been put in the end to hype the next movie.
Overall, I rate it mediocre/10. Much better than MoS, but running up as the worst superhero movie of the year.
Movie was a mess. Editing is inconsistent, it just jumps all over the place.
First act was a snoozefest. I could tell the some people are getting bored out of their minds.
Second Act was okay. Although Superman's arc isn't really that interesting and Cavill's acting was awful.
Third act is hype. Batman was awesome but didn't do shit against doomsday which was disappointing.
I also think the Wonder Woman's scene in thr hotel is misplaced. That could have been put in the end to hype the next movie.
Overall, I rate it mediocre/10. Much better than MoS, but running up as the worst superhero movie of the year.
Frozenprince
Banned
I just cant get over how dull it all was.
I can't tell if it was the shot direction, or the pacing of the fights, or the CGI or the editing.
But it was so, overwhelmingly fucking boring.
I can't tell if it was the shot direction, or the pacing of the fights, or the CGI or the editing.
But it was so, overwhelmingly fucking boring.
I'm really surprised there are so many people who genuinely enjoyed this film posting in the thread. I wish I saw what you guys saw. I wanted to appreciate this movie on some level so badly, but it just gave me absolutely nothing. When the BvS fight scene rolled around, I was forced to conclude yes, I actually think this movie is bad. Not average. Not middling. Bad.
Batman is a fool, Superman is a brick, Lex is a muppet, and Wonder Woman is powerless to save me from the resulting tedium and disgust.
Batman is a fool, Superman is a brick, Lex is a muppet, and Wonder Woman is powerless to save me from the resulting tedium and disgust.
Some people seem to love Wonder Woman, but I don't get why. She was handled terribly in this. If you've never heard of the character, you wouldn't even know who she was.
It was laughable, especially with that music cue. It felt like she had her standalone movie already, but we all missed it.
Wonder Woman was terrible, Lex Luthor was even worse... I can't believe that a movie with this kind of budget gets released in this state. The script is a disjointed and chaotic mess, and if this really is supposed to be our introduction to JLA... wow.
No name, no character development (aside from her showing up at the party), no nothing. How are you so supposed to feel then when she blocks that ray in her big reveal moment?
Wonder Woman was terrible, Lex Luthor was even worse... I can't believe that a movie with this kind of budget gets released in this state. The script is a disjointed and chaotic mess, and if this really is supposed to be our introduction to JLA... wow.
Discotheque
Banned
loved the opening 15 or so minutes of the film and not much of the rest but huh your avatar reminded me I wish Thor took one cue from this movie at least:
the effect that these heroes have on our religious beliefs. Thor exists on a world where there was literally a norse mythology and yet you see none of this reverence for him in the mcu. there would be a church of Thor and various cults sprouting right away if that man landed on earth with his hammer. while i didn't like superman much at all in this film I think it was scary how he was portrayed from the human's perspective. he literally does look like a god in this film. even during something as simple as seeing him fly into Africa from the sky. never really got that vibe in other movies. that these are titans on earth
Posted this in the RT thread.... may as well post it here too.
So like... I don't hate the movie. It's most definitely not a good movie, but I don't hate it. I'm frustrated by it. Every scene that is set up well, it just takes it an inch too far. Or like... 10 inches. I never had a problem with this movie conceptually, and I still don't. The error is all in execution.
It makes perfect sense, and it's important that the film does this, that we see the perspective of the people on the ground during the MoS fight. And thus it makes perfect sense that Batman would see Superman as a threat. Why you would use a particular piece to tell this story makes sense, but it's all just so clumsily put-together.
It's the equivalent of playing a beautiful song on the piano with bricks for fingers. Transitions from one scene to a next can feel really fucking jarring, some of the reasoning for things are convoluted as shit, and I didn't feel excited for things that were happening.
I'll save more for the Spoiler Thread, but I'll make broad points.
+ Affleck is a fine Batman. The obvious jarring character flaw that has been talked about to death is problematic, but in terms of actually playing the character, his presence on-screen, he's great. He deserves better than this movie gave him.
+ Gal Gadot is fine as Wonder Woman. I have hope for her movie. Underdeveloped, but it's also not her story. She's here to intervene rather than be a major player. I have issues with the actresses politics, but I think there are enough clever little bits here and there that I enjoyed when she was on-screen.
+ The action is well done. Like, on its own, never let it be said that Snyder doesn't make superheroes look cool.
+ There are plenty of scenes here that are generally set up really well....
- ...but almost all of them always go further than they need to and it just comes off as clumsy or silly. Every single dramatic moment that is dramatic enough on its own is punctuated with the equivalent of a dozen exclamation marks. Either with silly music cues, or an overthetop expression etc. Very few things are allowed to stand on their own without Snyder shoving your face in it. Again, bricks for fingers...
- Cavill's Superman is so fucking dry... Just... ugh. No real charm or joy or anything. There's nothing there to root for. I'm trying really hard to avoid making Marvel comparisons, but in the first Cap movie, when Steve is asked the question "Do you want to kill Nazis?", his response perfectly sets the tone of that character. "I don't want to kill anyone. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from." When I heard that line, I was completely behind him. "This is a guy I see as a hero. He isn't a fucking meathead like everyone else, but instead he's a guy of conscience." This take on Superman never has that. Not in Man of Steel, and not here.
- Clumsy editing, or little explanation to the audience as what's going on. When I saw the Knightmare stuff, I knew exactly what's going on. I understood exactly what's being implied. But if I didn't have all this DC Comics knowledge, I'd be so fucking lost. If you set that scene up better, you could justify why it's there far more easily. But instead, I head a million "Wait, what the fuck is happening?" murmurs from the audience.
- Still dumb moments that are just... UUUUGHGHSGSJFHASLJFHASL Superman in the courthouse after... "the big moment" is the new "Johnathan in the tornado." I laughed so fucking hard at how awfully that scene was executed. Like... he's just standing there shaking his fucking head! Like.... WHAT?!
- Batman and Superman's single-most glaring character inconsistency from their comic counterparts. People know what I'm talking about.
- There are so many awkward tableaus in this movie. Dramatic "look how meaningful this imagery is!" pans of people reaching, or someone holding a pose etc. It's just so awkward and silly, and just holds for too long. Scenes that make sense why they'd be there, but if were handled by someone less enamored with their own fucking self-importance, could've been really fucking good moments.
- Eisenberg's Lex. Again, I have zero fucking problem with this on paper. I understand why you would contemporize the modern day tech genius billionaire as a Zuckerberg-type rather than the image of "evil Daddy Warbucks." But he's so overly manic that he never seemed scary. If he was a more manic excited character in public, but privately, when he really wanted to intimidate you, he was far more subdued etc, that might actually have been unsettling. But he's not. He would've been a fantastic Riddler, I thought while watching his performance. But his Lex was poor.
Again, I didn't outright hate it. I agree with the 5/10 reviews more than those that are calling it the worst fucking thing ever. It's not. It's just frustrating and disappointing. There are pieces that could've been made into a good movie, but instead, is a clunky frustrating mess that doesn't make alot of sense.
I am very curious about the 3 hour cut, if that would fill in the blanks and make this movie flow better, but as is, it's just.... Ugh.
I'll go into more depth in the spoiler thread about individual scenes.
So like... I don't hate the movie. It's most definitely not a good movie, but I don't hate it. I'm frustrated by it. Every scene that is set up well, it just takes it an inch too far. Or like... 10 inches. I never had a problem with this movie conceptually, and I still don't. The error is all in execution.
It makes perfect sense, and it's important that the film does this, that we see the perspective of the people on the ground during the MoS fight. And thus it makes perfect sense that Batman would see Superman as a threat. Why you would use a particular piece to tell this story makes sense, but it's all just so clumsily put-together.
It's the equivalent of playing a beautiful song on the piano with bricks for fingers. Transitions from one scene to a next can feel really fucking jarring, some of the reasoning for things are convoluted as shit, and I didn't feel excited for things that were happening.
I'll save more for the Spoiler Thread, but I'll make broad points.
+ Affleck is a fine Batman. The obvious jarring character flaw that has been talked about to death is problematic, but in terms of actually playing the character, his presence on-screen, he's great. He deserves better than this movie gave him.
+ Gal Gadot is fine as Wonder Woman. I have hope for her movie. Underdeveloped, but it's also not her story. She's here to intervene rather than be a major player. I have issues with the actresses politics, but I think there are enough clever little bits here and there that I enjoyed when she was on-screen.
+ The action is well done. Like, on its own, never let it be said that Snyder doesn't make superheroes look cool.
+ There are plenty of scenes here that are generally set up really well....
- ...but almost all of them always go further than they need to and it just comes off as clumsy or silly. Every single dramatic moment that is dramatic enough on its own is punctuated with the equivalent of a dozen exclamation marks. Either with silly music cues, or an overthetop expression etc. Very few things are allowed to stand on their own without Snyder shoving your face in it. Again, bricks for fingers...
- Cavill's Superman is so fucking dry... Just... ugh. No real charm or joy or anything. There's nothing there to root for. I'm trying really hard to avoid making Marvel comparisons, but in the first Cap movie, when Steve is asked the question "Do you want to kill Nazis?", his response perfectly sets the tone of that character. "I don't want to kill anyone. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from." When I heard that line, I was completely behind him. "This is a guy I see as a hero. He isn't a fucking meathead like everyone else, but instead he's a guy of conscience." This take on Superman never has that. Not in Man of Steel, and not here.
- Clumsy editing, or little explanation to the audience as what's going on. When I saw the Knightmare stuff, I knew exactly what's going on. I understood exactly what's being implied. But if I didn't have all this DC Comics knowledge, I'd be so fucking lost. If you set that scene up better, you could justify why it's there far more easily. But instead, I head a million "Wait, what the fuck is happening?" murmurs from the audience.
- Still dumb moments that are just... UUUUGHGHSGSJFHASLJFHASL Superman in the courthouse after... "the big moment" is the new "Johnathan in the tornado." I laughed so fucking hard at how awfully that scene was executed. Like... he's just standing there shaking his fucking head! Like.... WHAT?!
- Batman and Superman's single-most glaring character inconsistency from their comic counterparts. People know what I'm talking about.
- There are so many awkward tableaus in this movie. Dramatic "look how meaningful this imagery is!" pans of people reaching, or someone holding a pose etc. It's just so awkward and silly, and just holds for too long. Scenes that make sense why they'd be there, but if were handled by someone less enamored with their own fucking self-importance, could've been really fucking good moments.
- Eisenberg's Lex. Again, I have zero fucking problem with this on paper. I understand why you would contemporize the modern day tech genius billionaire as a Zuckerberg-type rather than the image of "evil Daddy Warbucks." But he's so overly manic that he never seemed scary. If he was a more manic excited character in public, but privately, when he really wanted to intimidate you, he was far more subdued etc, that might actually have been unsettling. But he's not. He would've been a fantastic Riddler, I thought while watching his performance. But his Lex was poor.
Again, I didn't outright hate it. I agree with the 5/10 reviews more than those that are calling it the worst fucking thing ever. It's not. It's just frustrating and disappointing. There are pieces that could've been made into a good movie, but instead, is a clunky frustrating mess that doesn't make alot of sense.
I am very curious about the 3 hour cut, if that would fill in the blanks and make this movie flow better, but as is, it's just.... Ugh.
I'll go into more depth in the spoiler thread about individual scenes.
Davey Cakes
Member
Perhaps my wording could've been better.
Deadpool for example was a well-crafted movie with proper pacing and a reasonable run time. It was fan service delivered in a tight, structured package.
BvS just seemed like it was checking off boxes while being a mess of scenes glued together into an overlong monstrosity.
Basically, presentation matters. I'm not saying Deadpool wasn't necessarily a fangasm in its own right. But I left the theater after one movie feeling invigorated and satisfied, and I left the theater after the other movie feeling absolutely drained.
I think the kicker is that I knew NOTHING about the Deadpool character or his arc prior, while I was well-introduced to the characters in BvS in comparison. Yet I still enjoyed the former quite a bit more. I think that says a lot about BvS being limited in its script as its pandering only worked for hardcore fans and not general audiences.
I just don't watch many of these types of movies so I only have so much to pick from. PLEASE EXCUSE MY LIMITATION IN THIS AREA. But, I think the point stands. It's not about DC vs Marvel or the idea of fan service in general, but rather how a piece of entertainment is delivered to the audience.
I think it's mostly cool to people who know the character.
I think the look is good and she kicks ass in a fight, but I completely agree with you on the introduction of the character for non-comic book readers. When she appeared about half of the audience whispers "dude, the party chick is a superhero, I get that; but who is she?"
That was such a Snyder thing to do.
I DON'T CARE IF I'M PUTTING MY ENTIRE FAMILY AT RISK, I'M GONNA THROW A PUNCH AT THIS HERE MUGGER POINTING A GUN AT US CUZ THAT'S WHAT A MAN DOES
It's the diametrical opposite of Begins, where Thomas Wayne tries to defuse the situation as best as he can, eventually dies because he stands in front of his wife when the mugger points the gun at her.
BlackGoku03
Member
That wasn't Snyder. He got that from Miller.
From a few posts above you:
Not that I want to get in the way of accusing someone of not having read TDKR, but...
It feels great to see someone echo my exact thoughts
absolutely loved the movie and I've seen countless comic book filmsPlease go read DK Returns.
Well maybe he should've though better instead of slavishly adapting that part. Then again there wasn't much thought put into the movie overall.
I actually read it once ages ago. I was bored halfway through and dropped it.
Your family sacrifices blood to Snyder or something?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
There isn't one, its bits and pieces of each that make up the definitive version.
Batman Begins - League of Shadows member, friendship & mentorship from Ra's.
BTAS - training with Zatara & relationship with Zatanna
Phantasm - hesitation before becoming Batman, Andrea being the thing to push him over.
Comics - Bat crashing through the window, Shiva, Sensei, etc.
Gotham - Alfred, young Bruce, friendship with Selina, etc
Batman v Superman might have had the best Wayne murder visually but in IMAX the entire intro felt like 100x zoom so it was hard to see shit.
Need to see regular to be sure.
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