Sibersk Esto
Banned
It wants to go places but it's completely uninterested in the journey.
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
- Start date
- Status
It wants to go places but it's completely uninterested in the journey.
There was a discussion earlier how ultra-macho this film was and how it treats it's women like crap.
Wonder Women is the exception that proves the rule, but there are limits. Do you really think that it even occurred to Snyder to have the woman be the one to definitively save the day, even if she is the only one in a position to do so? Because it really makes no sense otherwise. Batman is too weak and Superman is too vulnerable. Wonder Woman has neither of those problems, and probably knows how to handle an antiquated weapon like the spear better than either of them anyway. She's by far the best opponent they could give doomsday.
After thinking on this film some more, I think what will really deter me from being invested in any project going foward in Snyder's cinematic universe is this interpretation of Batman at the center of it. There is such an emphasis on 'justice' and 'morality', but here we have a character who takes it upon himself to play judge jury and executioner. And this is suppose to be our anchor? I feel there is just such a disregard for what makes these characters who they are. Looking back, I think the moment Batman started mowing down suspects is when I finally checked out. I just don't think I'm interested in watching a morose Superman and a muderous Batman. Maybe these issues are more fluid with some viewers but for me it's a cynical and contradictory take on these characters.
TheSlySoul
Member
Someone pointed out "Why didn't Wonder Woman thrust the final blow?" and honestly I cannot argue with that. Supes could have held the rope in her place.
My guess is Supes had to die and resurrect because we have not had enough I AM JESUS allegories.
My guess is Supes had to die and resurrect because we have not had enough I AM JESUS allegories.
thecouncil
Banned
Here's how you solve the 'Why didn't Wonder Woman kill Doomsday?" problem along a few other problems this movie has:
Don't have Wonder Woman in this movie.
Don't have Wonder Woman in this movie.
Yup, that works too.
Heck, given enough time, I think she would have killed Doomsday herself, it seemed like she was winning the fight. She'd found ways to get in close, for deep cuts and dismemberment, and to tie him up. It's great that they wanted WW to be awesome and take charge, which is fine. But that also kind of defused the threat and opened the door to a lot of solutions that they ignored.
Well said, and clearly not. They made her capable of doing so, and then set her aside so Superman could do his thing. WW being the one to clean up the mess the men had made and creating some peace between them would have been interesting, but clearly outside of the imaginative scope here.
Frozenprince
Banned
But then they couldn't have the HEART POUNDING ACTION ACTION ACTION OF EXTREME POORLY FORMATTED EMAILS EMAILS EMAAAAAAAILS
Gordon Shumway
Banned
WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T HE DO THIS??
I think the script on this one was good, but how it was edited was just made it what it is.
I disliked Luthor, and most of the first half of the movie, because I felt there were scenes that were or Unnecessary or too long:
-Lois going to the Washington DC, Knightmare too lengthy, Movie Intro too long, LEx asking for permission to the senator to bring Kryptonite, ETC.
And once again, Batman is the character that has more appearance in movies than any other comic book character (except for Stan Lee), and everytime we need to watch his parents murder, by default they have become the most killed parents in the history.
TheSlySoul
Member
She was able to detain Doomsday by herself.
That was very impressive in hindsight.
thecouncil
Banned
Make Batman look at the files (he did anyway), put it after the credits, now the Wonder Woman photo is one of the great surprising cameos!
This scene was like if you stuck the Scarlet Witch / Quicksilver scene from Winter Soldier right in the middle of the movie for no reason.
Super low expectations when I went in and Snyder still managed to say fuck you by having super man smash that terrorist through a wall and made him paste within a few mins lol.
Also WW was so damn overpowered and stuck in slow mo world. WW and Bats could've taken doomsday alone imo.
Also WW was so damn overpowered and stuck in slow mo world. WW and Bats could've taken doomsday alone imo.
Now that's a sentence I didn't expect to not only read but agree with.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I know this wasn't meant to be funny, but you got a chuckle from me..
This totally felt like it was supposed to be the stinger part of the film.
TheGeniusArcana
Member
I'm planning on watching BvS sometime this week, but going through this thread makes me feel like I should either read TDKR or watch the movie since I have no experience with it. I'm leaning towards reading it, but which would be the better way?
PreFire
Member
She was fearless, and I think she was doing a good job against him. Her sword was even cutting him, took his hand at one point.
But, without kryptonite, would cutting his head off or stabbing him through the heart kill him? Or would he just heal with the sword stuck in his chest?
Wonder Woman was one of the good things I took away from this film.
Wtf were they thinking with Ezra rocking that weird fucking suit in the dream with Batman.
dragonyeuw
Member
Just following the wonder woman/doomsday comments and I agree: just based off the fight itself she was best equipped to beat doomsday: she absorbed his blows, cut off a few limbs and didn't have the kryptonite vulnerability working against her. In fact, dare I say she seemed to be enjoying the fight.
Angry Joe went in on this. He made the point that from now on, all Superman films will be totally void of tension. It's not like they'll kill him again, right?
Frozenprince
Banned
Because they're trying to get that sweet Avengers money as soon as possible because the need this franchise to carry them financially for a decade plus.
She is the DC version of Thor, and has Mythical tools, her bracelet can stop any sort of ray, her lazo can restrain anyone and it serve to make people talk, both of her Shield and Sword are also magical.
She is very powerful (she can even fly) and she can, in some versions go head to head against Superman, She doesn't have the stamina to keep it up tough, while Supe can go at it non stop. (disclaimer my WW knowledge are based on JL cartoon)
Orochinagis
Member
I think WW did a pretty good job incapacitating Doomsday, using the spear would be super easy to do a final blow on Doomsday.
Killing superman was unnecesary, the battle lasted like half of an hour and they were in a island with no risk of killing civilians. killing Clark was worse. He cant go back to his normal life too
Killing superman was unnecesary, the battle lasted like half of an hour and they were in a island with no risk of killing civilians. killing Clark was worse. He cant go back to his normal life too
Too weak to throw it? He could barely fly or stab Doomsday with it.
What did he mean by this?
Member
So I assume the Joker and the rest of Bat's rogues gallery has survived this long simply by making sure they never encounter Batman in his car, plane or boat
Frozenprince
Banned
From now on in any Batman movie when we see him get into a car, we know people are about to die by the (literal) truckload.
He flew, penetrating Ooomsday slow and hard.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
It would have been more satisfying if Superman was left all banged up and bruised from the nuke during night time in space, then Louis retrieves the staff without trapping herself and Batfleck and WW finish Doomsday.
Cut to astronauts retrieving Superman's body, etc.
Well, I think those are two sides of a coin. The fight didn't end in a sensible way because they wanted to shoehorn in Superman's death.
It's the same problem the entire film had with the titular fight: rather than the fight coming out of the story being told, they decided the two had to fight and created this big lumbering thing to try and justify it. So, they wanted Superman to sacrifice himself at the end, but it's not something that's built up to from the fight, just something that happens during it, logic be damned.
It's like they bullet pointed some end points for the movie - okay, gotta have Batman and Supes fight, and oh! OH! we could kill Superman too! Yes! Let's work backward. Instead of writing a good story and finding the way to create those moments from it.
Yeah, I though her pulling out and using the lasso would have been a great moment. Was odd to cut straight to her wrangling Doomsday.
Miss the Batman Begins game where the driving kill counter always stayed at zero.
Either way is good.
You could read (or watch: the animated version is good too) TDKR first, so that you can see where the movie goes wrong in adapting the elements.
Or watch the BvS first and have TDKR explain where those moments came from and how they should have been, afterwards.
It's like they do things in this film without thinking about the impact it will have in the future. Everyone is letting the batman killing people thing slide because he was a badass but they better be consistent because the next time batman has the joker cornered he better tell him I believe you.
thecouncil
Banned
I don't think a single well-known character in this movie behaved as you would expect them to.
Batman used guns and killed people;
Superman was sad and seemed to save people out of guilt;
Lex Luthor was a maniac;
Wonder Woman was relishing in her fight with Doomsday;
Lois Lane was in constant need of saving;
Ma Kent told Superman he should stop saving people;
Aquaman looked like if you gave him a few second, he would've drowned ...
who else was there?
Batman used guns and killed people;
Superman was sad and seemed to save people out of guilt;
Lex Luthor was a maniac;
Wonder Woman was relishing in her fight with Doomsday;
Lois Lane was in constant need of saving;
Ma Kent told Superman he should stop saving people;
Aquaman looked like if you gave him a few second, he would've drowned ...
who else was there?
lol. the film making crew for this movie hasn't a single person with common sense/logic. it works like this:
guys, we need to have a cool fight scene at the shipyard - ok so we have them transport the kryptonite by ship. perfect. done.
sensible person on the team would say: but luthor has choppers, they wouldn't use ships. let's rework.
guys, we need to have superman sacrifice himself in the end - ok so he will stab doomsday at close, he will be weakened by kryptonite and doomsday will stab him. perfect. done.
sensible person on the team would say: but wonder woman is much more adept with a weapon, supes and bat can simply get the spear to her, supes wouldn't risk being weakened by the kryptonite and failing the job. let's rework.
guys, we need to xxxxx - ok so yyyyy.
they are such shitty writers. they're already paid millions of dollars they don't have to work for it. so we get half assed writing.
Frozenprince
Banned
To be fair this sound pretty much exactly like comic Death of Superman so.
Should have had Superman's torn cape waving on the staff, but no, if we're doing the Death of Superman we better half-ass it.
I want to see how this would be handled in the next movie, for what it seems, The real bad guys haven't attacked earth all this time Because Supes was here, now that he is gone, they are coming.
Orochinagis
Member
Dont forget the magic cube thing that gave ciborg his armor
Wonder Woman I disagree with. I feel like she would, as an Amazonian, relish a fight after (seemingly) spending 100 years not fighting.
But otherwise, yeah.
Frozenprince
Banned
Wonder Woman always relishes a fight. Also I mean she can go against type all she likes because despite being part of "The Trinity" (really The Flash replaced her years ago), she doesn't have all that solid characterization.
OMG!!! Soo much this, I was WTF???????
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You aren't wrong..
What? Dude flew fast enough and was strong enough to put that thing in its chest.
That's in the comics though
There are many different interpretations of Wonder Woman. Sometimes she enjoys fighting, sometimes she's the same kind of girlscout that Superman is. Again, there is no "True™" version of a character, just the character people decide to write. I don't think there's anything wrong with her enjoying a fight, even if that's not what some comics Wonder Woman interpretations would do.
I just don't want her made a sadist like batman is. That, and someone mentioned the moment she only smiled at being hit by Doomsday. I'm choosing not to see this as masochism, because there's already too much Frank Miller in this movie, I don't want his Wonder Woman that wants to be dominated to be here too.
TheSlySoul
Member
I was really annoyed by Pa and Ma Kent telling Superman to not be a hero.
RoninChaos
Member
The plot was not fine. Superman was an arrogant prick and Batman was the punisher. 3/4ths of the movie didn't make sense. This was ASM2 all over again but with DC characters. It wasn't its own movie, it was being used as a launch pad for other things.
Kevin Costner was probably the best possible casting. Of course Synder turned him into a tin foil nutjob teaching his alien son how to be a cunt.
- Status