Dave Chappelle getting backlash for jokes about Caitlyn Jenner

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Trey said:
he's been telling this joke for more than a year now. I heard it live when I saw him last october. It's not his best joke, but in general he's even more hilarious than ever. At least to me.

As a comic, dave was always pushing the envelope of what's okay to say and not to say. And his humor is very much in the vein of the heteronormative male perspective. the way he delivered it as I heard it was an "I'm a relic of an older time" type of thing. That he can't keep up with this newer age of gender relations and sexual identities, so he feels like a fish out of water. He throws in a disclaimer before he tells the joke that he's "cool with people being whoever they want to be and living their truth, just don't expect him to play along on a personal level," or something to that general effect.

There is without a doubt an edge of transphobia to the joke, and Dave leans into it fully on purpose. He's done it plenty of times for a bunch of other sensitive topics like misogyny, race relations, and homosexuality. I'm not surprised that he offended people: they're purposefully offensive jokes and he utilizes the aura like a prop. If he's been telling that joke for this long, that means it's landing more often than not. And as with the perhaps ulterior reasons people laughed at some of his jokes on the Chappelle Show, this joke's success is most likely an unsavory reflection of the audience who is reacting to it.
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There goes the "It's just comedy" defense.

johnsavage said:
If someone finds it funny they find it funnny. If they don't, they don't. How is it that hard to understand?
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You can think things that aren't jokes are funny but that doesn't make them a joke.
 
ClosingADoor said:
We have footage of Richards racist rant. He is directly insulting people in the audience by being racist.

We do not have footage of Chappelle's stuff. So it is hard to judge if any line is being crossed. It doesn't seem like everyone in the audience thought it was offensive - judging by some posts here in this topic also - while the Richards thing is universally seen (and rightfully so) as racist.

I think it is strange to judge this and compare it to Richards, since most of us simply haven't heard it and can't really make an opinion of it.
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I personally am not comparing it the two in that sense because yeah - we don't know what Dave said. My point is that comedy is an intensely nuanced thing where timing, context, venue, audience, and delivery make a huge impact on the same jokes being told line for line and people are already handwaving the issue with a cheap stock argument without even addressing what is being discussed.
 
A Link to the Past said:
It kind of reminds me of a situation involving Lindsey Graham and Caitlyn Jenner, where on the liberal Raw Story website, a lot of people were attacking him as being a trans woman/gay in order to mock him, and did not understand that the insult was not against Graham, but against LGBT people.



So for instance, Michael Richards shouting the n-word and going on a crazy rant is comedy?
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Fair point.
Chappelles opinion on that:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kth0UOU5a_M
 
Oof this thread. Yeah sure, joke about whatever, but freeform trashing something without any sort of take on it isn't comedy. Or I guess at best, it's not good comedy.

Though these quotes are out of context all we have to go on is the article but that's what it sounds like. Wearing the badge of comedian doesn't shield you from criticism when something doesn't work or you go completely off the rails.
 
Taramoor said:
Were the jokes something along the line of "Trans person over in the corner got too drunk and collapsed and I was like "Is he okay?" and the paramedics stopped CPR to go "It's SHE you jackass." Kind of like a Bill Hicks bit about screwed up priorities, or was it more "Trans people are weird, that's so funny." kind of stuff
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That's the exact joke it was. The transgendered woman passing out at an art gallery, and he thought it was a man in drag so Dave asked "is he all right," wherein the woman's friends got snooty with him and he got annoyed. A "THAT is what you're really focused on right now?" type reaction.
 
aeolist said:
comedians joke about race by making fun of the ridiculousness of stereotypes and the stupidity of racists, not by saying without irony that mexicans are all lazy and blacks are stupid. you could joke about trans issues, but saying that trans people are just deluded is fucked up and wrong and not funny.
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Some comedians do that.

Those comedians are also called racists.
 
It is interesting that wasn't Chappelle himself the one that stopped doing his shows because his jokes were being interpreted and laugh by racist people as racist jokes ?
 
NimbusD said:
Oof this thread. Yeah sure, joke about whatever, but freeform trashing something without any sort of take on it isn't comedy. Or I guess at best, it's not good comedy.

Though these quotes are out of context all we have to go on is the article but that's what it sounds like. Wearing the badge of comedian doesn't shield you from criticism when something doesn't work or you go completely off the rails.
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It's rather ironic when critiquing comedians is more taboo than the taboos they were apparently put on Earth by Jesus himself to break.
 
The people defending the 'fantasy' line are why transphobia still exists

People wiling to defend ignorance in the name of 'pushing the envelope', I mean seriously, how is it edgy? It pretty much what the GOP front runners think.

Comedy which punches down isnt funny, its a cheap shot
 
johnsavage said:
So no one is allowed to find someone else's views funny? If that's the case, can someone find a joke not funny?
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You're allowed to find that funny, just as people on /pol/ are allowed to find Nazis caricatures of Jews funny.

We're allowed to say that's some fucked-up shit.
 
BocoDragon said:
In any public sphere today that isn't hard right, if you say something transphobic, you will be eaten for it. You might as well drop an n-bomb.
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I'm not so sure this is true. There are many, many places where trans acceptance is virtually nil. I think you might be in a bit of a bubble?

Abounder said:
Aw hell no. I mean you're halfway right that he's obviously a comedian, but being a clown is an insult even to standups. Especially to someone like Chappelle because everyone wants to see him do the Rick James skits over & over again. Not to mention Dave's already bombed shows and specifically referenced how Damon Wayans dealt with Homey D. Clown
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You're talking about two separate issues. Dave has done some slapstick/physical stuff over his long career, so it's fair to call him a clown, although he's not just a clown. And I agree about the Rick James stuff, how he got pigeonholed after that, and how the sketch was received, particularly by white audiences, was problematic.
 
Coffee Dog said:
It isn't just like that. Because the difference here is, the people that think Dave didn't do anything wrong arent empathetic to trans issues and the denial of those issues, when they should be.

Disagreement is a moral failing.
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I see this a lot and it's not fair. You can empathize with people and still disagree with their conclusion.
 
I don't understand how it's edgy humor going against the majority and forcing us to challenge our views when it's such a common thought that random people in line with me in the supermarket will tell me the same thing.

I have no idea why I look like someone who will entertain their rants about Caitlyn Jenner. But seriously, the amount of times a stranger in public has thought it important to tell me that Caitlyn Jenner is actually a man is baffling.
 
Platy said:
It is interesting that wasn't Chappelle himself the one that stopped doing his shows because his jokes were being interpreted and laugh by racist people as racist jokes ?
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From what I remember it was the rick james jokes that he was tired of
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
You can certainly infer afterwards that the cat being dead makes the joke unfunny, you just can't tell the joke and determine if it will be funny at the same time
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The possiblity of the cat being dead is what makes the joke funny, but the audience knowing the cat is actually dead makes it unfunny. However the cat being alive for the joke makes the joke fall flat. Therefore the cat has to exist between dead and alive for the joke to fulfill its purpose.
 
gutter_trash said:
Jenner is a Ted Cruz supporter.

All gloves are off, fair game
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Make a joke on her being a Cruz supporter then. Someones political views doesn't make it fair for someone to make an offense joke about her being transexual.

Caitlyn does have some incredibly negative views, such as her belief that gay people should not get married but that doesn't make it okay for jokes to be cracked about her gender.
 
gutter_trash said:
Jenner is a Ted Cruz supporter.

All gloves are off, fair game
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What? No. That's like saying that it's okay to make super racist jokes towards Ben Carson. Like, would you think it okay to photoshop Ben Carson with a bone in his hair and a piece of fried chicken in his hand because hey, he's a Republican? Is that the metric by which racism becomes acceptable, if you don't like the person?

ssolitare said:
No sympathy because she endorses Cruz whom hates Transgender folk. It's too hypocritical. Self-interests uber alles.
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The joke isn't about Caitlyn, the joke is about trans people, of whom Caitlyn is the most prominent figure.
 
BewareTheBatsie said:
Make a joke on her being a Cruz supporter then. Someones political views doesn't make it fair for someone to make an offense joke about her being transexual.

Caitlyn does have some incredibly negative views, such as her belief that gay people should not get married but that doesn't make it okay for jokes to be cracked about her gender.
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Jenner is a Reality TV show hack

Her support for Cruz proved where priorities lie
 
ssolitare said:
No sympathy because she endorses Cruz whom hates Transgender folk. It's too hypocritical. Self-interests uber alles.
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He is commenting on transgender people in general. Caitlyn has little to do with this.

FStop7 said:
If you're one of the people getting twisted over this then I'd suggest never watching any Don Rickles standup.
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You mean the comedian from the 1960s?

I don't need a lesson in comedy here.
 
Hellwarden said:
I'm just saying the whole "jokes are okay if they're funny" is nonsense.
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Exactly. Someone making a joke about cancer or obesity may be funny to some, but no so funny to others.

Someone joking about Manson or some mass murderer may not be amusing and quite possibly offensive to victims of killings.

Jokes by comedians aren't crafted in a way to appeal to all people. Often times, comics only appeal to specific niches or fans of comedy.

Comedians also shock people and bring them out of their comfort zone to talk about controversial topics.
 
Abounder said:
Chappelle is a clown that victim blames rape victims and compares it to wearing a police costume. He's politically incorrect as all hell. And the crowd loves it
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If it's the bit I'm thinking of, you're misrepresenting him. He said that men will ogle a woman and assume she's OK with it if she's wearing a "whore's uniform."

I'm sure slut-shaming isn't any better to you, but it's not quite the same thing as victim blaming rape victims.
 
ApharmdX said:
You're talking about two separate issues. Dave has done some slapstick/physical stuff over his long career, so it's fair to call him a clown, although he's not just a clown. And I agree about the Rick James stuff, how he got pigeonholed after that, and how the sketch was received, particularly by white audiences, was problematic.
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Being called a clown is an insult to standups, you were arguing otherwise. Dave's commentary about trans falls into the same pitfalls that his rape/race/etc material does. He is poltically incorrect as all hell and crowds love it, like a funny Trump or Jeremy Clarkson
 
Seriously, this thread is getting absurd. I can't believe that we actually have people coming in and arguing that bigoted remarks about groups of people is okay as long as you target it at bad people.

Also, this isn't even edgy comedy, Chappelle is saying what most people think.
 
I think it's disingenous to claim not to understand how people can take the idea of being transgender as a type of cognitive dissonance. Most people don't know very much about the issue and when you tell them that someone who has decided they're a different gender is exactly the same as someone who is born that way it doesn't make any sense at all.
 
AlexMeloche said:
Telling trans people are living a fantasy isn't a joke or humour. It's simple hateful stuff. How is it that hard to understand?
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How exactly is it hateful.. I Mean people have the right to what they find funny and what they think is true. And there is a hint of truth to it. What you feel like inside and what you identify with is all good, but at the end of the day you are what you were born as. That can't be changed. I mean people should accept that people have the right to be whatever the freaking want but I don't expect everyone to have to play along 100%.,its a controversial angle and I'm sure it's a but Dave is still working on. But it's not hateful.

People who are atheist are quick to call evryone religious idiots, but when it comes to having an opinion on the Trans phenomenon nothing but full compliance is accepted by thoae same people. Smh
 
ApharmdX said:
I'm not so sure this is true. There are many, many places where trans acceptance is virtually nil. I think you might be in a bit of a bubble?
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I'm not talking about what I overhear at dinner parties or whatever.

-Twitter
-TV and media
-College campuses
-Pretty much any public stage that isn't proudly right wing

Try saying something transphobic in these spheres. You'll be destroyed.
 
JABEE said:
Comedians also shock people and bring them out of their comfort zone to talk about controversial topics.
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So if a comedian says black people are stupid as a joke, it's totes okay because he's just shocking people and bringing them out of their comfort zone to discuss the controversial topic of racism.
 
Nudull said:
It's rather ironic when critiquing comedians is more taboo than the taboos they were apparently put on Earth by Jesus himself to break.
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Yeah I mean, I'm all for people critiquing whatever. If you have an opinion and a take on something that you think is unique, go ahead and do your best to get it out there if that's what you want to do. But just because you're on stage doesn't mean people can't say shit about what's coming out of your mouth. Comedians are the ones who are starting or steering a conversation, but it's still a conversation.


BocoDragon said:
I'm not talking about what I overhear at dinner parties or whatever.

-Twitter
-TV and media
-College campuses
-Pretty much any public stage that isn't proudly right wing

Try saying something transphobic in these spheres. You'll be destroyed.
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Yeah if only trans people could live in twitter on on tv then they'd be fine and wouldn't have to worry about anything.
 
BURNING SPIRIT said:
How exactly is it hateful.. I Mean people have the right to what they find funny and what they think is true. And there is a hint of truth to it. What you feel like inside and what you identify with is all good, but at the end of the day you are what you were born as. That can't be changed. I mean people should accept that people have the right to be whatever the freaking want but I don't expect everyone to have to play along 100%.,its a controversial angle and I'm sure it's a but Dave is still working on. But it's not hateful.

People who are atheist are quick to call evryone religious idiots, but when it comes to having an opinion on the Trans phenomenon nothing but full compliance is accepted by thoae same people. Smh
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your views are ignorant and not in step with current understandings of human biology and gender
 
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