Dave Chappelle getting backlash for jokes about Caitlyn Jenner

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Trey said:
That is the exact joke. There is an undercurrent of transphobia to the joke, and Dave uses it to stress the absurdity of the situation he found himself in.

It's funny that people bring up the police officer/woman dressed as a ho joke he did. I feel that the joke this topic is based on is essentially the police officer joke repackaged, in that Dave's sensibilities and intuition is being challenged. he feels the curt responses he gets in his jokes are absurd, considerdering the visual presentation the subjects of his jokes display.
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An 8 page thread is anything but curt. :P
 
Chorazin said:
If the joke being that people stopped to chastise him for saying "is he ok? instead of getting help for her when she collapsed, now that's funny. That people care so much about appearing politically correct while ignoring the actual plight of the person endangered is great comedic satire.

But we don't know since it's out of context. :/
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This is my point of view. Cheap shots at minorities/LGBT without a reason to them I feel those aren't Dave's style from what I recall. Making a joke about being a grown man who didn't grow up in this new world view and asking a question about a person's safety only to be ganged up on for using the wrong pronoun sounds like good comedic material.

I'll wait until the special and judge for myself but I'm of the mind that nothing is sacred in comedy but you shouldn't be surprised of your joke loses you fans if it's mean-spirited vs telling a joke with meaning behind it.
 
Toxi said:
An 8 page thread is anything but curt. :P
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Not the meta discussions around his jokes, the responses he gets within the jokes themselves. In the police officer joke, the woman sasses him for ogling her. In the transgender joke, the woman's friends lecture him for Dave thinking the woman was a man in drag.
 
laserlaser said:
Yup. I was at his show this past Sat. for the taping. The Caitlyn joke is not like the OP described. Just wait for the special before outraging.
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If you were actually at the show mind providing some context then? And what was the audience reaction? I don't think a straight up transphobic joke would get much cheer/applause in this day and age.
 
NimbusD said:
You have a pretty skewed view of mainstream acceptance of transgendered people. Just look at recent bills in Georgia or North Carolina. These are whole states rallying against the right of transgender people to exist, not just a bunch of people sitting at their computer yelling at people on twitter.

It was only last year that the Caitlyn Jenner thing happened and whatever the personal views on her are, that was huge. It was the first real public mainstream discussion about this. And before she came out, just look at the regularly transphobic and misinformed headlines that were all over the place about people suspecting she might be transgender.

You can look back at the threads in this very forum of people who just didnt understand basic things about trangendered people. Much of it is not malicious, but the ignorance surrounding them is harmful in and of itself. Just because one very public discussion happened and brought a lot of attention to it, doesn't mean that it's over or that the discrimination went away.

So there's areas of very strong support, and you list mostly places that are virtual: Twitter, stages, TV. These are helpful, but saying that's suddenly made the life of a transperson 'normal' or free from transphobia is absolutely ridiculous. The conversation that leads to mass acceptance is just beginning.

Also, comparing a transphobic joke to a dead baby joke is completely missing the point. A dead baby joke is a (hack) joke solely for shock value. The chances of you running into someone who's going to take that joke and go yeah! Kill all babies! I'd imagine is shockingly slim. But giving credence to those who are either misinformed about trangender issues or just transphobic is a completely different scenario.
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You've chosen to substitute my point about "PC culture" with complete trans acceptance. I'm not that interested in debating something I already agree with.

There is an element of "you can't say that" that comedians brush up against, and trans jokes are officially part of that which you cannot say. That is the beginning and the end of my point.
 
Jesus Christ at all these people getting offended, over an out of context quote or two.

Stop overthinking things, grow thicker skin. You can't even form an opinion, you're just looking for an excuse to get mad, like the articles in the OP and the TMZ snippets aim for.

What if I watch a famous comedy bit right now, and I paraphrase it out of context, without the delivery and charisma it's meant to be heard in... And phrase it in a paragraph describing "how hurt and conflicted I feel at this subject matter" like when Louis CK jokes about child molestation? Then we can make a 20 page thread on that right?
 
A Link to the Past said:
If you had read the thread, Chappelle has made this joke multiple times, and there are links to other instances of transphobic jokes made by Chappelle in the past. You talk of context, but none exists if you intentionally ignore it like you seem to have.
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There's a video of the joke in the OP posted in this topic where I can hear the entire joke from Chappelle's mouth in it's proper set?
 
Toxi said:
It's hard for me to talk about Chapelle's statement because, as you mentioned, I lack context.

But I don't think that a joke about black people being stupid somehow has value because a certain black person did something stupid. It's still just me reinforcing racist perspectives to get a chuckle out of my audience.
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I'd be curious if he touched more on the "fantasy" as if there was something more to it than "trans people are living in a fantasy". But we probably won't know any time soon.

for the record, I did enjoy louis c.k.'s bits on white people being ignorant and ruining everything.
 
"Pace yourself."

If any of you have seen Dave's shows this past weekend (I was at one of the Friday shows at the Palladium) this was pretty much his take on outrage culture. He got into this bit when he caught one guy in the crowd that was able to break open one of those Yondr bags and tried to record his act. There was also a drunk heckler and Dave was pretty cool handling it.
 
Trey said:
Not the meta discussions around his jokes, the responses he gets within the jokes themselves. In the police officer joke, the woman sasses him for ogling her. In the transgender joke, the woman's friends lecture him for Dave thinking the woman was a man in drag.
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Oops, thanks for clarifying that.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
Jesus Christ at all these people getting offended, over an out of context quote or two.

Stop overthinking things, grow thicker skin. You can't even form an opinion, you're just looking for an excuse to get mad, like the articles in the OP and the TMZ snippets aim for.

What if I watch a famous comedy bit right now, and I paraphrase it out of context, without the delivery and charisma it's meant to be heard in... And phrase it in a paragraph describing "how hurt and conflicted I feel at this subject matter" like when Louis CK jokes about child molestation? Then we can make a 20 page thread on that right?
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people like you are honestly more annoying than outright bigots at this point

we're looking for things to get angry at? isn't that exactly what you did by coming into this thread and making a pissed off post?
 
Kreed said:
There's a video of the joke in the OP posted in this topic where I can hear the entire joke from Chappelle's mouth in it's proper set?
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SummitAve said:
Excuse my ignorance then. I was following the beginning of this thread. Mind pointing me to the links that contain the three acts for which the jokes took place so I can fully understand the jokes and context before forming my opinion?
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If you scan the thread, you can find multiple articles detailing past skits where he very blatantly expresses transphobic views, such as talking about being annoyed by people correcting him on pronouns and referring to a trans person as a man in a dress.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
Jesus Christ at all these people getting offended, over an out of context quote or two.

Stop overthinking things, grow thicker skin. You can't even form an opinion, you're just looking for an excuse to get mad, like the articles in the OP and the TMZ snippets aim for.

What if I watch a famous comedy bit right now, and I paraphrase it out of context, without the delivery and charisma it's meant to be heard in... And phrase it in a paragraph describing "how hurt and conflicted I feel at this subject matter" like when Louis CK jokes about child molestation? Then we can make a 20 page thread on that right?
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So should we grow a thicker skin or not form an opinion?
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
Jesus Christ at all these people getting offended, over an out of context quote or two.

Stop overthinking things, grow thicker skin. You can't even form an opinion, you're just looking for an excuse to get mad, like the articles in the OP and the TMZ snippets aim for.

What if I watch a famous comedy bit right now, and I paraphrase it out of context, without the delivery and charisma it's meant to be heard in... And phrase it in a paragraph describing "how hurt and conflicted I feel at this subject matter" like when Louis CK jokes about child molestation? Then we can make a 20 page thread on that right?
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Sorry that this criticism is too much for your thin skin.
 
aeolist said:
people like you are honestly more annoying than outright bigots at this point

we're looking for things to get angry at? isn't that exactly what you did by coming into this thread and making a pissed off post?
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No I came in here to see what all the fuss was about with the clickbait title, skimmed through 8 pages of people dramatically claiming that Chappelle is insensitive and should be ashamed of himself, and felt like sharing my two cents.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
No I came in here to see what all the fuss was about with the clickbait title, skimmed through 8 pages of people dramatically claiming that Chappelle is insensitive and should be ashamed of himself, and felt like sharing my two cents.
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you should grow a thicker skin maybe
 
Kreed said:
We had a GAF thread discussing his banning of cellphones with many members pissed off he would do this vs just allowing his material to be seen by everyone, but as you said, threads like this illustrate the very reason he needs to do this. Forget taking jokes out of context with cell phone footage or the joke still being in the "test phase", here we are discussing a news story where the only source is someone "claiming" to hear the joke and providing us with a TLDR version of it without any context at all or any way to substantiate the claims. Jokes, especially with comedians like Dave Chappelle, are all about his delivery and the stories he tells leading up to the jokes.

Example, there was a comedy special where he made jokes about Elizabeth Smart not being that smart. In the context of my post, this sounds terrible, but if you actually see the bit in proper context, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as my post would make it seem.
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The description of the material as reported in the 2014 post I put in the OP says to me he has largely stuck with the original wording and it's not really about "trying it out" or "being in the test phase" so much. I'm talking about a show that happened two months ago that's being taped for a special this week, and a joke that is being documented in 2014 pretty much exactly as it happened two months ago with the documentor having much the same disappointed reaction I had.

laserlaser said:
Yup. I was at his show this past Sat. for the taping. The Caitlyn joke is not like the OP described. Just wait for the special before outraging.
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The Caitlyn joke is exactly as described; I was at a show just two short months ago. I may have blasted my memory with a lot of weed over the years but I'm not *that* bad. My guess is you just weren't sensitive to how a sentiment like that comes across. My sister is genderfluid and I was in a San Francisco audience. There were definitely gasps of offense among the laughter and I made a frown, reflexively. And judging from other coverage of this material that I and others in the thread have linked to, I am not alone in that reaction. Let's not just dismiss things out of hand.

If it comes off better in the special it will only be because he completely cut out his exasperation over having pronouns corrected and cut out that he shouldn't have to participate in a trans person's "self-image."
 
A Link to the Past said:
If you scan the thread, you can find multiple articles detailing past skits where he very blatantly expresses transphobic views, such as talking about being annoyed by people correcting him on pronouns and referring to a trans person as a man in a dress.
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The whole point of the post you originally quoted is that there is a big difference between people describing a joke second hand and actually hearing the joke from said person's mouth. This is extremely important for comedians and comedy shows because delivery is everything. It doesn't matter if you're describing a Chappelle bit or an episode of American Dad, describing it doesn't do the joke justice and can change the entire feel of it when certain aspects of the joke are "lost in translation". Everything from his tone of voice which can indicate everything from seriousness to sarcasm to the jokes leading up to said joke in question are important.
 
Kinsei said:
Who is calling for censorship?
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What the poster meant is that people getting outraged by these kinds of jokes and demanding (or wanting) for them to not be said, is a cause for censorship. You've seen in the past few years comedians apologizing for certain jokes, have you not? Hell, here on gaf there was a thread on a joke Bill Burr made about Caitlyn Jenner which people took seriously.
 
Yet again, someone constructively critiques someone or something in a reasonable manner, and a ridiculous amount of people come in to shout about how they can't believe there's so much "outrage"...when there is none? Aside from, you know, the people coming in to tell us that we just need to calm down. Even though people were having a perfectly reasonable conversation.

I'll just leave this here: https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/5-...o-manufacture-outrage-ba79125e1262#.p2yridzhw
 
I just can't believe people keep coming into these threads and they still continue to say the same dumb shit. Like you would think they would learn after a while but no.
 
collige said:
Literally no one is asking for this.



What's the non-transphobic context for saying "how long are we supposed to indulge in your fantasy"?
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Removing it from the context of the set, it's a pretty fucked up thing to say. But I haven't seen the whole thing, so it's tough to say if it's relatively more insulting than what he says about anyone else he riffs on in the set, or if he's singling out Caitlin while acknowledging that he has no issues with the trans community, etc
 
cpp_is_king said:
So's Kramer
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Funnily enough, Dave Chappelle has a joke about this situation in the same set the Caitlyn Jenner joke comes from. And it, too, ties back to the same premise the Jenner jokes display: that comedians push the boundaries and sometimes go too far in the name of comedy, and get burned by "PC backlash."
 
Trey said:
That is the exact joke. There is an undercurrent of transphobia to the joke, and Dave uses it to stress the absurdity of the situation he found himself in.

It's funny that people bring up the police officer/woman dressed as a ho joke he did. I feel that the joke this topic is based on is essentially the police officer joke repackaged, in that Dave's sensibilities and intuition is being challenged. he feels the curt responses he gets in his jokes are absurd, considerdering the visual presentation the subjects of his jokes display.
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Makes sense. That is funny.

I hope we get a video of this comedy tour eventually.
 
Chorazin said:
If the joke being that people stopped to chastise him for saying "is he ok? instead of getting help for her when she collapsed, now that's funny. That people care so much about appearing politically correct while ignoring the actual plight of the person endangered is great comedic satire.

But we don't know since it's out of context. :/
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He did absolutely hit that beat and it was funny. But he definitely had an axe to grind on pronoun use in general, and he definitely ultimately poses a question "to what degree do I have to participate in your self-image/fantasy?" The lingering on this exasperation was palpably awkward and his discomfort with the entire concept of trans was obvious.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
What the poster meant is that people getting outraged by these kinds of jokes and demanding (or wanting) for them to not be said, is a cause for censorship. You've seen in the past few years comedians apologizing for certain jokes, have you not? Hell, here on gaf there was a thread on a joke Bill Burr made about Caitlyn Jenner which people took seriously.
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So criticism is censorship, thanks for clarifying.
 
JoJoShabadoo said:
What the poster meant is that people getting outraged by these kinds of jokes and demanding (or wanting) for them to not be said, is a cause for censorship. You've seen in the past few years comedians apologizing for certain jokes, have you not? Hell, here on gaf there was a thread on a joke Bill Burr made about Caitlyn Jenner which people took seriously.
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The government is a cause for censorship. Clearly that means we must overthrow our governments and accept anarchy.

A Link to the Past said:
So criticism is censorship, thanks for clarifying.
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But criticism of criticism is not censorship, of course.
 
Trey said:
That is the exact joke. There is an undercurrent of transphobia to the joke, and Dave uses it to stress the absurdity of the situation he found himself in.

It's funny that people bring up the police officer/woman dressed as a ho joke he did. I feel that the joke this topic is based on is essentially the police officer joke repackaged, in that Dave's sensibilities and intuition is being challenged. he feels the curt responses he gets in his jokes are absurd, considerdering the visual presentation the subjects of his jokes display.
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I feel like folks are avoiding your posts on purpose.
 
uncelestial said:
He did absolutely hit that beat and it was funny. But he definitely had an axe to grind on pronoun use in general, and he definitely ultimately poses a question "to what degree do I have to participate in your self-image/fantasy?" The lingering on this exasperation was palpably awkward and his discomfort with the entire concept of trans was obvious.
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Adam Carolla would approve
 
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