Star Ocean 5 character gets less-sexy underwear 'in Fear of Western Criticism'

So are we going to keep pretending that this stuff is isolated or relegated to a single dev?

Also, the actual edit is like literally nothing. From the pic in the OP I'm fairly certain they just changed the color of the underwear.

Finally, maybe I'm wrong here but isn't she of age? I can understand the changes to say Lin in Xenoblade who both looks and is 13 but she looks like an adult.
 
mugwhump said:
OK, and? That falls pretty neatly under the umbrella of "Western attitudes towards sex in games." It really wasn't the point of the post at all.
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Well my point is that an embarrassingly stupid change like this one comes from Japanese developers thinking Westerners have a problem with sex when really they have a problem with sexism.
 
Just to be clear:

There's a big difference between sexuality and objectification.

Let me repeat that: there's a HUGE difference between sexuality and objectification.

Depending on the context, the panties themselves are not the problem; what is a problem, however, is the voyeuristic pleasure of guiding the camera underneath a woman's skirt without consent.

But as problematic as this is, it isn't the interesting issue. What's worth talking about is whether we consider games as a medium that pushes its values onto players, or as media that allow players to explore their own values. On the one hand, we've got a number of people claiming that the responsibility falls on the dev for creating a system that values women in these ways, but on the other there are people arguing that its the player who views this as an acceptable way to engage with womens' bodies.

If we truly view games as a simulation in which players can explore multiple outcomes, it may be that we need to accept the possibility of these actions (as crass and tasteless as it may be), but critique players who perform them. We can also critique devs when one of those problematic outcomes becomes the only outcome.

Also: this "change" screams manufactured concern.
 
if square enix really cared they would follow project diva f's example and use this warning instead

jS4kg5y.png
 
Quasar said:
Understandable though. Well not the extreme reaction (and its unfortunate that this is the example used to fight the fight), but in general terms I'd be annoyed if my counties culture products were being modified in the original simply because of different cultural values of other countries.

It seems to me that its one thing to modify localised versions sold in other countries, its something different to have the originals changed because of cultural differences.

I guess this comes with Japan being weak in terms of the game market, hence why you wouldn't seen the level of violence in games trimmed in the US because of foreign concerns.
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I'd probably help people to understand how all the Japanese fans feel if they imagine our big block buster movies getting censored Western versions based on Chinese or Indian values. Another culture dictating our entertainment for us thanks to a rising fear of backlash.
 
Valdfellgar said:
I'd probably help people to understand how all the Japanese fans feel if they imagine our big block buster movies getting censored Western versions based on Chinese or Indian values. Another culture dictating our entertainment for us thanks to a rising fear of backlash.
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If the equivalent would be one less squirt of blood from a wound... I don't see the problem.

This is a very minor change, they didn't remove the ability to panty shot her, they didn't add pants onto her, they just gave her slightly larger panties.
 
The difference in the width of the panties is obvious. It's not a big change, but people don't want a change at all, especially if it's an edit of the original, too.

I would argue that the fact that you can see her panties to begin with is a bigger slight, but it can't be easy to fix that when you could simply add a couple dozen pixels to the model, instead.

So from their perspective, it's Western values being forced down their throats, the same western values that were forced down their throats over the last three generations, but this time with a different excuse. I'm still going to buy it anyway, because Anne is best girl.

Nikodemus said:
Isn't that Boxxy?
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Pretty sure it is.
 
Maybe Japanese devs are starting to give more concerns/attention to the West since PS4 sales are mostly coming from the West (I mean most of PS4 owners are from the West right) ?


Ouch at those comments, are Japanese usually so hateful with gaijins ?
Or are we talking of a small minority on forums ?
 
Ushojax said:
Well my point is that an embarrassingly stupid change like this one comes from Japanese developers thinking Westerners have a problem with sex when really they have a problem with sexism.
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The developer's explanation makes it seem that he's aware of the distinction, and many posters in this thread believe that Miki's sexualization is problematic/gross/objectification/etc.
 
ys45 said:
Ouch at those comments, are Japanese usually so hateful with gaijins ?
Or are we talking of a small minority on forums ?
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Those comments are most likely just as representativ as any other internet comment section. That is, not at all.
 
I like that we're having a serious discus-

CertifiedFP said:
Square just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Star Ocean 5 for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square, publicly apologize and do not consort with foreigners or you can kiss your business goodbye.
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Daft Punk said:
Square Enix just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese otaku culture (I'm an expert), but pantsu and 1000 years old girls who look underaged are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by twerking like Miley Cyrus. If you screw up panties in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Star Ocean V for the PS4, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square Enix has alienated cringey otaku with this move.

Square Enix, publicly apologize and make the panties g-string or you can kiss your business goodbye.
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...well, at least we're not having some ambiguos gi-
...Scatter... said:
v9jvpahpimoqwx4cpe2u.gif
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Damnit.
 
Good on triace. Too bad they didn't just obscure the ability to peep altogether, and change Fiore's design as well.

Rather, those sorts of things should have been in consideration as 'No' items from the start, not changes made out of fear of criticism. You can have a fun, enjoyable game without panties and fanservice-driven character designs.
 
Ushojax said:
Western attitudes towards patronising and objectifying depictions of women, you mean. Sex is everywhere in Western games.

The problem with games like Star Ocean and more generally the depiction of women in Japanese games, is not the visual representation of the female characters but that the majority of them (especially the younger looking ones) are depicted as toddler-brained objects to be leered at. It's always the younger characters that have the most unsettling sexualisation in these types of games and it seems that publishers in Japan don't really understand why the Western world takes issue.
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Bayonetta or Quiet are anything but toddler like and were still plenty criticized.
 
Parfait said:
Call of Duty, CS:GO, it's all still kids shooting kids and shouting at each other in voice chat

so healthy
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It's all about that Battlefield.

But really, those games are not just "all kids". Kind of like how not all JRPG players are going "baka gaijin desu yo~".
 
mugwhump said:
That seems kinda paranoid. I think it's more likely that they're sharing an honest anecdote about the game's development that they thought would be amusing, and didn't think it would blow up like this. In hindsight, definitely a mistake.
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I don't understand the people saying this is a promotional move for more sales either. After the Dragon's Crown incident, people were keenly aware of how volatile western reactions are, even Shuhei Yoshida, someone at the top of Sony, expressed concerns over these issues.
xPixels said:
Also: this "change" screams manufactured concern.
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The idea of some shrewd marketing mastermind baiting people into more sales just seems silly. You're telling me developers intentionally fabricated a whole article about a change which was blamed on the west, knowing it'll be translated, and they are totally convinced that people will discover the game through this and buy it? Let's not kid ourselves here, the people hearing about this will either not give a damn, were going to buy the game anyway, or were never going to buy it. Or worse, they'll be put off by seeing the content in the first place.
Developers being afraid of becoming the newest critic pincushion and not knowing how to handle it seems far more likely. They want their sales but they're only making tiny compromises because they probably don't actually believe Western critics are right.
dramatis said:
Good on triace. Too bad they didn't just obscure the ability to peep altogether, and change Fiore's design as well.

Rather, those sorts of things should have been in consideration as 'No' items from the start, not changes made out of fear of criticism. You can have a fun, enjoyable game without panties and fanservice-driven character designs.
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For example I don't see devs following this train of thought unless they pretty much give up on their home market. Heck it's likely designers enjoy what they create and see this as direct opposition instead.
 
CrispyBoar said:
LMAO, "Western standards & moral standings."

Like some other posters had mentioned, there are far more sexually explicit content in most Western games than in most Japanese games. Yet no one bats an eye on that.

What a joke.
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You and others seem to have a hard time distinguishing sexuality, sexualisation and objectification. I strongly suggest you read up on the nuances if you're really interested in having a discussion on this. These flimsy retorts based on limited understanding of the subject matter are boring me to death already.
 
You can have a fun, enjoyable game without panties and fanservice-driven character designs.
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NO

jk

dramatis said:
Good on triace. Too bad they didn't just obscure the ability to peep altogether, and change Fiore's design as well.
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"remove it for everyone" uh, why not just give optional costumes? i would be okay with that, everyone is happy
 
This is sad. I hate that non-language things have to change between regions. Now it's changing all regions to meet the norms of one region.

I don't even like anime waifu panties. But it's the principal. I don't like the idea that America is a place that can't handle this HOT content.
 
Kinsei said:
Context and the way it is presented matters.
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Sorry but i have hard time to find "context".
i haven't seen Any fighting technique in SO5 that contain panty shots , you like have to go out of your way to move the camera to see it ( for this character )

So this change bothers me a bit.

If i'm reaading things right and 2 characters that would probably have a sister-like realistionship take a bath together , why not ..the context is there ..so why the change again?

I'm like so confused.
 
ys45 said:
Maybe Japanese devs are starting to give more concerns/attention to the West since PS4 sales are mostly coming from the West (I mean most of PS4 owners are from the West right) ?


Ouch at those comments, are Japanese usually so hateful with gaijins ?
Or are we talking of a small minority on forums ?
Click to expand...

Racism and xenophobia are very real here. I've experienced my fair share of it. Not saying Japan is a horrible place or anything but it does have its problems like every country.
 
Nottle said:
This is sad. I hate that non-language things have to change between regions. Now it's changing all regions to meet the norms of one region.

I don't even like anime waifu panties. But it's the principal. I don't like the idea that America is a place that can't handle this HOT content.
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Better not support Trump then, because /pol/ has been spamming his twitter with half naked cartoon girls (read: women in anime with MAGA hats shopped on), and he's gotten tired of it! :^)
 
Golnei said:
Wait, this is in both the domestic and international version? That's absurd - do what you have to in order to allay the criticism of western reactionaries, but don't take a hatchet to the original game as well. This could set some really troubling precedents.
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Yes, I see it as a censorship issue. I don't want artists bending in anticipation of criticism.
 
Kinyou said:
Bayonetta or Quiet are anything but toddler like and were still plenty critized
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Quiet absolutely deserved to be criticised, she was one of the most embarrassing video game characters of all time. Bayonetta is certainly highly sexualised but she is a strong, admirable character whereas Quiet is there purely to be lusted over. You can take issue with Bayonetta's sexualisation but I don't think you could call her a weak, misogynistic character.
 
TheSeks said:
I'm not seeing a problem with that outfit. The character's "age"/looking like a 5 year old, yeah that's questionable. But I'm not seeing "overly sexy, straight up NO" objectionable content here. *shrug*
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I think they just didn't like the character and would rather see nothing like Lymle ever again, 'kaaaaay?
 
I think the change is worse since they're far more noticable now and make it look like she's one of those deviant art weirdos with a diaper fetish.
 
Grandma panties are kind of a dumb change. If anything they should adjust the camera so you can't point it at the angle necessary to see her panties. And they should just make the change for the western release to avoid pissing off their Japanese base. Regardless, it's small potatoes to me because it's not like it's front and center. (And it's not like this game will sell much here anyway.)
 
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