"But black people are allowed to say the n-word..."

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I knew we'd discussed the false distinction between "a" and "er" before, it came up in this thread about Piers Morgan back in 2014.

Here's what I said then in a pretty involved discussion (It was a good thread, you guys should check it out.)

What we're talking about here is the idea that pronouncing the word correctly is considered "talking like a white person." That's why the word tends to take on a harsher tone when it's pronounced correctly, because it sounds like it did coming out of the white people in power who made sure to keep the black populace of America as uneducated as they possibly could.

The focus on the different spelling/pronunciation only really came about once hip hop albums started purposefully misspelling words (including that one) in song titles and album names as a way to make the titles stand out/be stylized. It didn't make the words new words because they were being purposefully misspelled, though.

A LOT of white kids who wanted to be down and appropriate that culture saw the fact it was spelled differently, heard the fact it was pronounced differently, as their "in" towards using that word without getting their shit wrecked for it. From there this false distinction has been further confused and even adopted by some people as legitimate reasoning, not too different from the people who believe fag has to do with burning gay people, or that sagging your pants is an invitation to get topped.

Black people are expected to have their own, race-specific dialect regardless of what region they live in, and that expectation has been grown and fostered over a century now. That expectation is very tightly intertwined with this country's lowered regard for minorities in general. It's in and of itself an example of internalized, ingrained racism. "Black people talk like this, white people talk like this," ba-dum tisshhh.

White people would like for "nigga" to mean something different than "Nigger" because then it means it's easier for them to appropriate that culture so they can feel cool. Nobody feels cool being an outright racist, so if they can believe (and get others to believe) that the word doesn't mean the same thing simply because it has a different pronunciation, then they get to take part in the reclamation of the term without any of the discomfort that can and SHOULD go along with a white person using it.

To clarify, because I don't know if I've done this yet and I don't want any misunderstanding lingering: I'm talking about white people and their bullshit means to attempt using the word still, because, as with almost every time a discussion of this nature pops up, the only reason the conversation is happening is because white people want permission to use the word, and are angry that they're being denied the guilt-free enjoyment of having those two syllables at the ready on the back of their tongue. I'm not talking about black people referring to other black people with that term while using "white" pronunciation of it. I'm talking about white people wondering why they should have to catch shit for using the "black" pronunciation of it now that black people have done all this work to make the word alluring to culture vampires looking for something to sink their pearly fangs into.
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Im not black myself, and im not going to say black people shouldn't use the word because i think it's something sort of empowering that they took it and changed it into something that robs the word of it's original demeaning intend.

Yet i always found kinda weird that this is the course life took, it's really interesting honestly, i have seen the LGBTA community do the same to the word "Queer", in itself it's a fascinating linguistic evolution.

That said, just because black people use it liberally it's no excuse for other people to use it, specially cause it's gonna be most likely used in the worng way or wrong context.
 
What region are you in OP? That quote is hilarious in how brash it is

Edit: Bulgeria, I have no frame of reference outside the states. I'm Puerto Rican and flinch when I hear a person say it in that certain way where it definitely isn't a term of endearment
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I knew we'd discussed the false distinction between "a" and "er" before, it came up in this thread about Piers Morgan back in 2014.

Here's what I said then in a pretty involved discussion (It was a good thread, you guys should check it out.)
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he only reason the conversation is happening is because white people want permission to use the word, and are angry that they're being denied the guilt-free enjoyment of having those two syllables at the ready on the back of their tongue. I'm not talking about black people referring to other black people with that term while using "white" pronunciation of it. I'm talking about white people wondering why they should have to catch shit for using the "black" pronunciation of it now that black people have done all this work to make the word alluring to culture vampires looking for something to sink their pearly fangs into.
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Exactly, they don't want to say it that bad, they just don't want to problems that come with saying it
 
I mean, anyone can say it if they really want to, as long as you have some sense of when it might be appropriate and when it won't. I'm white and have said it in a conceptual sense, aka when discussing the word and its use, as opposed to directing it at someone or a group, which I'd never do or want to. Saying 'n-word' or some equivalent would have been a bit needless and silly in that context when everyone already knew what was being discussed. I think it says a lot about the insecurity of people raising a stink that they're so aggressively obsessed with being able to use an epithet so upsetting to so many people. Most normal people (I would hope) don't feel any need or desire to use it, and don't need to make a big deal over the times when its use might be contextually justified.
 
Lol of course this has become a hard "r" vs an "ah" thread on top of an anyone should be able to say it if black people can.
 
The word gets used pretty often in my circles but NEVER in the way this person posed it towards you. That's an instant slap. I don't give a fuck who you are or think you are.

That's some slave owner talk right there.

Edit: Goddamn Bobby Roberts. That was a good read.
 
OP, if you don't live in the US/Canada, what is most likely going on is that your friend is mixing up the words "nigga" and "nigger."

The words are pronounced distinctly differently in North America, but everywhere else they're pronounced the same.

"Nigga" is like a PC reclamation of the n-word. It's very popular in rap culture. But it's a hard nuance to grasp for people raised outside of North America, since the words are pronounced identically everywhere else.
 
Des0lar said:
This explains a lot. Especially why nobody else bat an eyelid.

In your case, just explain to her that it's not ok.
Here is a quote you can use:
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Marc was talking to a conservative douche with that quote and the most telling thing about that exchange was Ben Ferguson feigning concern and talking about how bad of a word it was, and midway though his true feelings come out. He complains about being fired if he were to use it.
See like most people who complain about not being able to use it, he doesn't actually think it's bad, he just doesn't think it's fair that black people use it free of consequence.
https://youtu.be/0IjGJvjnzfo
Fudgepuppy said:
But when someone says "Why can black people say it if it's so horrible?", how are you supposed to respond in a concrete way?
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Many people have already given good reason why people who aren't black shouldn't say and why black people can say if free of consequence. Relay one of those explanations to her. Your friend is a racist.

Black Republican said:
and so do white people not being able to say it!
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Oh no they were able to say it... they ran wild with it for almost four centuries. Now black people no longer have to put up with that bullshit.

Dee Dah Dave said:
Black people shouldn't use the word themselves if they are gonna get upset when someone else does.
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Think it's unfair that you can't say it free of consequence like black people, huh?
 
say to them go to black person and shout the word at them....if they cannot they should know why not to say that word and if they do they're a racist
 
I say it. Just not around most black people. When I was growing up, I basically had a "hood pass", but I still never really said it around any of my black friends unless they really really wanted me to for some reason.

Also, I'm speaking about "nigga," not "nigger". I don't even say "nigger" privately. That shit makes me feel uncomfortable.

And to people who say "Why would you want to say nigga?"

It's in every form of entertainment I've ever seen/heard in some setting, all of my favorite hip hop artists use it, mostly used in a positive manner. Also, I grew up with mostly black friends, and they said it all the time. Again, almost always in a positive manner. It's use is positive most of the time. Why wouldn't I want to use it?

When I was really young, around 2nd grade or so. I would say it frequently when I was at black family's houses because I heard them say it all the time. They would laugh at me, and encourage me to. I thought it was a good thing. It was only when my Mom pulled me aside at my house and told me it was a bad word, did I slow down.
 
First, you need some new friends.

Second, she can't use it because she's not black. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Nigger straight up means "You're a sub-human piece of shit because of your skin color." Given that the only qualification is race, If I, a black man, call another black man a nigger, I'm insulting myself as much as I'm insulting him. It's a powerless slur that means nothing coming from me. The same scenario with a white person calling a black person a nigger doesn't have that dynamic. There is no common ground on which the trait can be applied to both people. It's just one person calling another person a sub-human piece of shit because they're different.

And that's not even getting into the fact that there's a very long and intense history behind it.

Also, the popularity of the word nowadays is because of an attempted re-appropriation, and not everyone is OK with it.
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
Black people shouldn't use the word themselves if they are gonna get upset when someone else does.
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First off "er" and "a" endings are not equal.

One is a slur used by whites against blacks.

One is the twisting of that word; used by blacks with each other to strip the original of its meaning.

It's not difficult to grasp.
 
EloquentM said:
I'm sorry I'm at work. Are they saying "nigger" or "nigga"?
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Oh okay, I wasn't entirely sure what you were trying to tell me at first, but I suspected this. They are saying the latter.

But to some African American people, the rules don't change between the two. It's just worse when you use the former, but it doesn't make the latter okay.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I knew we'd discussed the false distinction between "a" and "er" before, it came up in this thread about Piers Morgan back in 2014.

Here's what I said then in a pretty involved discussion (It was a good thread, you guys should check it out.)
Click to expand...

You're post deals in the semantics of both iterations of the word. However, on a cultural level, there is a delineation between the use of -er and-a insofar as what's generally "acceptable" among white and black cultures.

It's in the same way that "fuck" carries several different connotations.
 
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
You're post deals in the semantics of both iterations of the word. However, on a cultural level, there is a delineation between the use of -er and-a insofar as what's generally "acceptable" among white and black cultures.
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I know. I'm explaining why that cultural shift happened, and why it happened kinda fraudulently.

The semantics are important, as is the context (which is, of course, moreso). Basically, the semantics are being used as an excuse to minimize the context. People are complicit in it whether they realize it or not when they stress the difference between "a" and "er" like it's not largely artificial.
 
The Artisan said:
Oh okay, I wasn't entirely know what you were trying to tell me at first, but I suspected this. They are saying the latter.

But to some African American people, the rules don't change between the two. It's just worse when you use the former, but it doesn't make the latter okay.
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I won't contest that it's cringe inducing when people of non-black descent spout "nigga this and nigga that" but it's nowhere near rage inducing for me personally so much as the word nigger. I really don't care if some rapper or producer is saying the word in a clever way and even still don't really care if they're not but the situation in the OP Is pretty vulgar and there is a distinct difference between these two words especially as far as black people saying it to each other are concerned.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I know. I'm explaining why that cultural shift happened, and why it happened kinda fraudulently.

The semantics are important, as is the context. Basically, the lack of understanding behind semantics are being used as an excuse to minimize the context.

People are complicit in it whether they realize it or not when they stress the difference between "a" and "er" like it's not largely artificial.
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I gotcha. At the end of the day, it's a lame-duck appropriation tactic used in some white cultures.
 
EloquentM said:
I won't contest that it's cringe inducing when people of non-black descent spout "nigga this and nigga that" but it's nowhere near rage inducing for me personally so much as the word nigger. I really don't care if some rapper or producer is saying the word in a clever way and even still don't really care if they're not but the situation in the OP Is pretty vulgar and there is a distinct difference between these two words especially as far as black people saying it to each other are concerned.
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I agree that the former in every literal way is worse, and for the purpose of the thread the OP says that but the title is "black people saying the n-word" when that is referencing the latter, since that's the word used in dialogue. But what I was talking about isn't just rappers using or saying the word, it's about the fact that they aren't black, but they aren't white either. If they weren't famous people and were just passersby saying it, should it/would it fly?
 
Outside of USA, most people don't know/understand what nigger is or what it means, and I have never heard it. They use "nigga" because they think it´s cool.

I would never say it in any context knowing it can be offensive. I feel is important not to take the feelings of other persons for granted.
 
It's not surprising looking at it from a mainstream view of things. Turn on the radio and you hear the word in every rnb/rap song these days. Kids grow up with it and use it as well. The meaning of the word has been deluded so much that the historic weight of it is gone.

Maybe in America it still holds something significant but in Europe etc.. Just another word these days.
 
Enzom21 said:
Think it's unfair that you can't say it free of consequence like black people, huh?
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No?

I have no interest in using the word due to it's history and meaning. My position is that nobody should be using it these days, most of all black people. I don't give a shit if it has a "different meaning" depending on who or how it's said.

If black people take offense to the word then they shouldn't use it themselves. Simple.
 
The Artisan said:
Oh okay, I wasn't entirely know what you were trying to tell me at first, but I suspected this. They are saying the latter.

But to some African American people, the rules don't change between the two. It's just worse when you use the former, but it doesn't make the latter okay.
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What are you arguing?

First, there is a distinction between "er" and ah." Even if a black person were to use the word "nigger" I would turn my head because it has very negative connotations." On the other hand, "nigga" is considered acceptable and appropriate word for black people to use with each other. It's a form of identifying with someone whose part of the same cultural identity and history as you along with all the baggage that entails and which we continue to face. White people do not fit into this cultural identity or history and thus do NOT get to say the word.

Now, other minorities are sometimes given a pass to say "nigga" because we recognize them as being similar to our culture and history of oppression and racism. That is why DJ Khaled can get a "hood pass," however, no matter what Eminem is still white and thus does not get an open pass to use the word.

Also, to answer OP besides a lot of good posts already here how about you answer with this: White people can say nigga or nigger all they want, they can scream it at the top of their lungs if they want. But, in order to do so all minorities have to be treated equally first. That means you have to give up all your white privilege and in return you can get to use the n-word. Until then, STFU!
 
Acosta said:
Outside of USA, most people don't know/understand what nigger is or what it means, and I have never heard it. They use "nigga" because they think it´s cool.

I would never say it in any context knowing it can be offensive. I feel is important not to take the feelings of other persons for granted.
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Are we talking Europe? Because I don't buy Europeans don't know the meaning of nigger.
Dee Dah Dave said:
No?

I have no interest in using the word due to it's history and meaning. My position is that nobody should be using it these days, most of all black people. I don't give a shit if it has a "different meaning" depending on who or how it's said.

If black people take offense to the word then they shouldn't use it themselves. Simple.
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Nah, not simple.
 
Lupercal said:
It's not surprising looking at it from a mainstream view of things. Turn on the radio and you hear the word in every rnb/rap song these days. Kids grow up with it and use it as well. The meaning of the word has been deluded so much that the historic weight of it is gone.

Maybe in America it still holds something significant but in Europe etc.. Just another word these days.
Click to expand...

On clean versions of rap songs they don't say nigga or nigger when played on FM radio. It's always removed. The meaning of the word still holds weight, or else this thread and the many others like it, and multiple news stories every week about it, wouldn't exist.

Also, thanks for the update on Europe's racially evolved attitude.
 
It's nice to know as a black UK resident that all those people calling me nigger during childhood were doing so out of endearment, because nobody knows what that word means outside of the US. Makes me seem like a total fool.
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No?

I have no interest in using the word due to it's history and meaning. My position is that nobody should be using it these days, most of all black people. I don't give a shit if it has a "different meaning" depending on who or how it's said.

If black people take offense to the word then they shouldn't use it themselves. Simple.
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Are you black? If you're not then you don't get to tell us what we can or can't call ourselves, that shit died with slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, etc.
If black people stopped saying nigga, do you think white people would stop calling us niggers? You can't be that simple.
 
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