"But black people are allowed to say the n-word..."

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It doesn't matter what the "intention" is, it's a problem if you say something racist.

It's like punching someone accidentally or on purpose. If you do it accidentally, are you gonna go "whatever, it wasn't intentional so you should neither feel bad nor should it bruise". It's just not how it works.
 
Seeing as it's Bulgaria I'm not surprised. other than when used with malice, that word holds little power historically compared to countries that are racially diverse.
 
The Artisan said:
You tell me if it's okay or not. I'm just laying out real life examples.
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Ah, saw your follow up post which answered my question, thought i could edit it away in time. The er version shouldn't really be used by anyone, unless it's a black person trying make a statement (song, speech, etc). The a version should still only be used by black people. I'm mixed (half black, half white) but look hispanic. So i pretty much hold off on saying nigga until they know I'm black lol
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I knew we'd discussed the false distinction between "a" and "er" before, it came up in this thread about Piers Morgan back in 2014.

Here's what I said then in a pretty involved discussion (It was a good thread, you guys should check it out.)
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Aaaaaand people mostly seem to be skipping this post. And on top of all that, some accents will always sound like "a(h)" even if the speaker is trying to use the "er" sound. Does this magically give them protection no matter how they use the word?
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No?

I have no interest in using the word due to it's history and meaning. My position is that nobody should be using it these days, most of all black people. I don't give a shit if it has a "different meaning" depending on who or how it's said.

If black people take offense to the word then they shouldn't use it themselves. Simple.
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The in group can decide themselves what they do and do not find offensive. Especially when there is a very real history of oppression behind it related specifically to a certain people using it. You don't get to set the rules on it.
 
I had the super pc version of this happen to me yesterday and the phrase," I can't be racist my best friend is black." was said and I wanted to run.
 
What does rappers saying nigga in a song have to do with asking someone if they're a half-nigger? She knew exactly what she was doing.
 
"Black people should stop using it if they don't want racists to use it."
- some people apparently.

If only black people had the power to stop racists.
 
The simplest way I can put it without going to its history and usage by white people as a dehumanizing epithet is to ask whoever I'm talking to "is it OK if I call your mother or sister a whore?"

Then proceed with, "You'd get mad right? What about if i called a friend of yours a dirtbag or a piece of shit? Maybe you'd get a little defensive? I wouldn't really have reason to step on your toes if you called them those things. I mean you've built up a relationship and have an understanding with them over the course of time. There's no doubt in your friend's mind when you refer to them as dirtbag Steve nothing is meant by it. Now you, on the other hand, whitey, I don't know where you're coming from, especially with the hard 'r' at the end of it."
 
Lupercal said:
It's not surprising looking at it from a mainstream view of things. Turn on the radio and you hear the word in every rnb/rap song these days. Kids grow up with it and use it as well. The meaning of the word has been deluded so much that the historic weight of it is gone.

Maybe in America it still holds something significant but in Europe etc.. Just another word these days.
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Lost historic weight to who exactly? White Europeans?
 
deli2000 said:
It's nice to know as a black UK resident that all those people calling me nigger during childhood were doing so out of endearment, because nobody knows what that word means outside of the US. Makes me seem like a total fool.
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People that keep saying tht those outside US don't know the meaning of it or are just using it in a different less terrible way are just as stupid as this girl
 
Had this come up when I was in the Navy:

This Hospital Corpsman I was cool with asked me (while drunk) "Why can't I be your nigga?" The only way I could explain it at the time was that "even though we're all in the Navy and grown men none of us here can go into the Chief"s Mess or the Officers Lounge and call them by their first name." That kinda worked. Sometimes people just don't get it.
 
Enzom21 said:
Are you black? If you're not then you don't get to tell us what we can or can't call ourselves, that shit died with slavery. If black people stopped saying nigga, do you think white people would stop calling us niggers? You can't be that simple.
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No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
 
The Artisan said:
I agree that the former in every literal way is worse, and for the purpose of the thread the OP says that but the title is "black people saying the n-word" when that is referencing the latter, since that's the word used in dialogue. But what I was talking about isn't just rappers using or saying the word, it's about the fact that they aren't black, but they aren't white either. If they weren't famous people and were just passersby saying it, should it/would it fly?
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It's not about them being a celebrity as it is more so about hip hop culture.
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
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Even when the rules are the same for everyone, we're still not equal. Ever read a history book, watched the news, anything like that?
 
Lupercal said:
It's not surprising looking at it from a mainstream view of things. Turn on the radio and you hear the word in every rnb/rap song these days. Kids grow up with it and use it as well. The meaning of the word has been deluded so much that the historic weight of it is gone.

Maybe in America it still holds something significant but in Europe etc.. Just another word these days.
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Europeans know what Nigger means. Come the fuck on. You think if I go to Europe people gonna be breaking out the n bomb in front of me? Who has it lost aignificance to, white Europeans? Because if so lol that's fuckimg hilarious jistificatiom for racism.
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
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context is very important to language. you can't ignore it just because you're annoyed you can't use the n-word. lol.
 
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Also, why did this need to be a thread?
 
Enzom21 said:
By "play nice" do you mean have no issue with non-blacks using it?
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No, i mean if no one can agree with the rules on using the word. Im fine with not saying the word unless contextually. If people cant get over not being allowed to say a word, because they are not black then no one should use it at all. Racists will say the word, but they will be marked as such. There would be no more excuse such as the one the girl in the OP gave.
 
IcyBlueStrawberry said:
First, you need some new friends.

Second, she can't use it because she's not black. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Nigger straight up means "You're a sub-human piece of shit because of your skin color." Given that the only qualification is race, If I, a black man, call another black man a nigger, I'm insulting myself as much as I'm insulting him. It's a powerless slur that means nothing coming from me. The same scenario with a white person calling a black person a nigger doesn't have that dynamic. There is no common ground on which the trait can be applied to both people. It's just one person calling another person a sub-human piece of shit because they're different.

And that's not even getting into the fact that there's a very long and intense history behind it.

Also, the popularity of the word nowadays is because of an attempted re-appropriation, and not everyone is OK with it.
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I feel, as a very white man in a white country, that this explanation makes the most sense out of any I've read in this thread. In my mind I've always accepted that black people can say the n-word as they like, but I've never been able to put into words why that is for explaining to someone who initially doesn't agree with the premise.
 
Lupercal said:
It's not surprising looking at it from a mainstream view of things. Turn on the radio and you hear the word in every rnb/rap song these days. Kids grow up with it and use it as well. The meaning of the word has been deluded so much that the historic weight of it is gone.

Maybe in America it still holds something significant but in Europe etc.. Just another word these days.
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Y'all need to stop acting like Europe is some post-race utopia where people just don't understand that the bullshit they do or say isn't racist.
 
Alandrus Sun said:
What are you arguing?
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I don't think I'm arguing anything, just pointing out real life facts. On a daily basis I hear non-white, non-black people saying it (not the former). Who decides whether it is right or wrong?

First, there is a distinction between "er" and ah." Even if a black person were to use the word "nigger" I would turn my head because it has very negative connotations." On the other hand, "nigga" is considered acceptable and appropriate word for black people to use with each other. It's a form of identifying with someone whose part of the same cultural identity and history as you along with all the baggage that entails and which we continue to face. White people do not fit into this cultural identity or history and thus do NOT get to say the word.
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Just white people though? First off, I've heard them saying it (the latter) and I've heard African Americans have varying opinions about it but secondly, what about other colored people using it? They do or do not get to say it?

Now, other minorities are sometimes given a pass to say "nigga" because we recognize them as being similar to our culture and history of oppression and racism. That is why DJ Khaled can get a "hood pass," however, no matter what Eminem is still white and thus does not get an open pass to use the word.
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Would I be wrong in assuming you're African American?

I guess what my point is and the issue I take with it is...why is it just sometimes? If we have that freedom to say it should we not always have it? We shouldn't have to worry about when and when it isn't okay.

Also, to answer OP besides a lot of good posts already here how about you answer with this: White people can say nigga or nigger all they want, they can scream it at the top of their lungs if they want. But, in order to do so all minorities have to be treated equally first. That means you have to give up all your white privilege and in return you can get to use the n-word. Until then, STFU!
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Tbh I don't really appreciate white people saying it either, however, there are a few things I've noticed...firstly, some black people are perfectly fine with their caucasian peers saying it casually, all the time.

Secondly, everything about being white seems to be a basis, and everything about not being white seems to be just a way to reference things. That sounds confusing; for instance, Jessica Jones trailers used "Of Mice and Men" to promote the show, a band of a few white musicians. No one says anything about that.

The recent Luke Cage teaser uses the rap song "Made You Look" by Nas, an African-American musician, promoting an African-American protagonist. Personally, I think for many reasons it's awesome that they're using that song.

However, ifyou look at the comments section, you see someone complaining about the use of the rap song, and even insinuating that it was used just because the main character is black too.
 
When someone says it around me and I call them out for it the best argument I have made so far is that it's a word black people have taken back from racism to use as a word for camaraderie. White people have no right to use it on basis that we have literally no other connection to the word other than racist use.

Let me know if anyone agrees with this or if i'm completely off base. All I know is that I really don't accept the use of it by non-black people even if it isn't used with animosity . "I'm not using it negatively" IS NO EXCUSE UGH
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
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When things are truly equal, then your post will be something more than whiny nonsense.
It is also amusing that this is the thing that you think is not equal in society.
I tell you what though, I will trade my privilege of saying nigga for the privilege that you carry in society.

Gordon Shumway said:
Un-PC setting..��
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That usually means, "I can be a racist, sexist or bigot without people calling me on my shit."
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
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You really so dense or have you never been among peers or social group in which it's fine to use words that you would not use outside that group? For example, here on GAF we like to call each other nerds. But I wouldn't go to work and start calling them nerds. Similarly some black people have adopted a word as a term of endearment to be used within their communities. A member from outside it is not going to be granted the same leeway. It's called context.
 
partyphone said:
context is very important to language. you can't ignore it just because you're annoyed you can't use the n-word. lol.
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This would seem to be an important point here, particularly when you're in an Eastern Bloc country that has no cultural context about the word, other than popular media.
 
I don't even really understand why white people WANT to use the word, unless they're either racists or morons. If you're rapping along with a song that happens to include the lyrics, it's not really a big deal, since the genesis of your use of the word resides outside yourself, in the writer of the song, and of course if you're a writer penning white characters from like the 1980s or earlier, it's basically necessary in some contexts, but otherwise, no, are you fucking nuts? Shit, I've sometimes become spontaneously self-conscious about the inherent power being able to say the word in a way that hurts deeply gives me over black folk I'm interacting with, that's the strength of the word. It's no wonder to me that black people would want to defang the word by appropriating it into familiar contexts, what the hell else do you do with an elephant in the room that size?

They're two not even particularly mellifluous syllables, white people. You can let them go, it's okay.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I knew we'd discussed the false distinction between "a" and "er" before, it came up in this thread about Piers Morgan back in 2014.

Here's what I said then in a pretty involved discussion (It was a good thread, you guys should check it out.)
Click to expand...

What we're talking about here is the idea that pronouncing the word correctly is considered "talking like a white person." That's why the word tends to take on a harsher tone when it's pronounced correctly, because it sounds like it did coming out of the white people in power who made sure to keep the black populace of America as uneducated as they possibly could.

The focus on the different spelling/pronunciation only really came about once hip hop albums started purposefully misspelling words (including that one) in song titles and album names as a way to make the titles stand out/be stylized. It didn't make the words new words because they were being purposefully misspelled, though.

A LOT of white kids who wanted to be down and appropriate that culture saw the fact it was spelled differently, heard the fact it was pronounced differently, as their "in" towards using that word without getting their shit wrecked for it. From there this false distinction has been further confused and even adopted by some people as legitimate reasoning, not too different from the people who believe fag has to do with burning gay people, or that sagging your pants is an invitation to get topped.

Black people are expected to have their own, race-specific dialect regardless of what region they live in, and that expectation has been grown and fostered over a century now. That expectation is very tightly intertwined with this country's lowered regard for minorities in general. It's in and of itself an example of internalized, ingrained racism. "Black people talk like this, white people talk like this," ba-dum tisshhh.

White people would like for "nigga" to mean something different than "Nigger" because then it means it's easier for them to appropriate that culture so they can feel cool. Nobody feels cool being an outright racist, so if they can believe (and get others to believe) that the word doesn't mean the same thing simply because it has a different pronunciation, then they get to take part in the reclamation of the term without any of the discomfort that can and SHOULD go along with a white person using it.

To clarify, because I don't know if I've done this yet and I don't want any misunderstanding lingering: I'm talking about white people and their bullshit means to attempt using the word still, because, as with almost every time a discussion of this nature pops up, the only reason the conversation is happening is because white people want permission to use the word, and are angry that they're being denied the guilt-free enjoyment of having those two syllables at the ready on the back of their tongue. I'm not talking about black people referring to other black people with that term while using "white" pronunciation of it. I'm talking about white people wondering why they should have to catch shit for using the "black" pronunciation of it now that black people have done all this work to make the word alluring to culture vampires looking for something to sink their pearly fangs into.
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just quoting this
 
I don't think it's fair that reverse racism like N-word privileges are "allowed" in PC society yet black persones are saying the H-word (
"hipster"
) with a hard R like it doesn't carry any weight.
 
Dee Dah Dave said:
No I'm not black, and those who are can say whatever they like for all I care. Just don't get upset when someone else uses the same words. Because that's hypocritical.

"Nigger" is a derogatory word, period, no matter who says it. You can't have a rule for one and not the other, because then we are not equal. And that's the whole point, right?
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I know gay people who say fag and it doesn't upset me if they get offended if I used it around them. Women call each other bitches but I wouldn't expect to get the same treatment if I called a woman a bitch. I know Italians who jokingly call each other wops and even though that has fallen out favor as a slur, the people who know it would be upset if I used it around them. There has always been language that groups use with each other that would be offensive if used by those outside of the groups and it has nothing to do with your ridiculous definition of what's equal or not. What reason do you have to call another random black person a nigger/nigga?
 
The Artisan said:
I don't think I'm arguing anything, just pointing out real life facts. On a daily basis I hear non-white, non-black people saying it (not the former). Who decides whether it is right or wrong?

Just white people though? First off, I've heard them saying it (the latter) and I've heard African Americans have varying opinions about it but secondly, what about other colored people using it? They do or do not get to say it?

Would I be wrong in assuming you're African American?

I guess what my point is and the issue I take with it is...why is it just sometimes? If we have that freedom to say it should we not always have it? We shouldn't have to worry about when and when it isn't okay.

Tbh I don't really appreciate white people saying it either, however, there are a few things I've noticed...firstly, some black people are perfectly fine with their caucasian peers saying it casually, all the time.

Secondly, everything about being white seems to be a basis, and everything about not being white seems to be just a way to reference things. That sounds confusing; for instance, Jessica Jones trailers used "Of Mice and Men" to promote the show, a band of a few white musicians. No one says anything about that.

The recent Luke Cage teaser uses the rap song "Made You Look" by Nas, an African-American musician, promoting an African-American protagonist. Personally, I think for many reasons it's awesome that they're using that song.

However, ifyou look at the comments section, you see someone complaining about the use of the rap song, and even insinuating that it was used just because the main character is black too.
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Yes, I'm black.

Second, what the fuck are you on about?

There is no sometimes goddammit, YOU DON'T GET TO USE THE WORD, period. Now, (despite what I just said) SOMETIMES a white person in a group of black friends is giving a "hood/black pass" that allows them to say things like "nigga." However, and here is the key, that pass ONLY applies to that group of friends. That same white person cannot go around calling every fucking black person they meet a "nigga." They were given a specific pass to be used at a specific time and place, they were not given a lifetime membership into the "nigga club."

I don't know what you are talking about with regards to the Luke Cage trailer. And, I've already explained when non-black minorities are also allowed to use the word.
 
The Artisan said:
You tell me if it's okay or not. I'm just laying out real life examples.
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The word has unwritten nuance. Belly and DJ Khaled are both Palestinian, and a lot of rappers from the 80s and 90s with either being Muslim, having ties to the NoI or 5%'s saw solidarity with Palestinian people. Whether or not the sentiment is still relevant in 2016, Belly and DJ Khaled make their living with hip-hop. Knowing that, they've probably work and interact with black people on a daily basis. In their circles, they probably throw the word around pretty often. Even then, not everybody in black communities would agree with them using the word; their isn't a monolithic consensus on the word in within black circles. If Eminem spit that verse you posted today, he would catch shit for it and he has caught shit for another racially charged song he made. Other white artists like Justin Beiber and Post Malone ran into controversies as well for using it. Is their a double standard for white rappers using the word? Totally, but there is a lot of historical baggage behind that double standard.
 
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