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[RichiRamjag]

Finding and ousting people from the gaming community that would entertain gamer gates style of ideals should never stop. Every last person who would think that way absolutely deserves to be rooted out and thrown out and ostricized from the gaming community. We owe it to the women who have been abused for decades to not allow their filth to feel comfortable playing games.

That's crazy talk that leads to accusations towards people who aren't anywhere near affiliated with that nonsense. It's a witchhunt similar to the one this thread is about, and once mob mentality kicks in, the damage is done. I (who grew up in a house of women with a strong single mother) got called sexist once here because I said I'd rather they introduce a new character to the Zelda universe rather then do a gender swap (as a black guy, I don't think color swaps are truly progressive either). Folks like that can piss off imo.

 

[partyphone]

Okay?

And people are free to criticize them for their decisions. That is what is happening here.

I never get posts like this...

This is coming from one of the people that believes Nintendo was in the right if she breached her contract, by the way.

yup! this is a big fuckup on nintendo's part. they're trying to sweep all the nastiness under the rug but it's too late. this is a backslide. it's bad for women in gaming and especially bad for any woman who works at Nintendo. all this does is reinforce gamergate.

and the people sitting on the side going "well nintendo is technically correct for firing her you shouldn't criticise them" are fucking cowards.

 

[JP_]

Honestly Nintendo doesnt owe the public a satisfying explanation for firing someone

To be far social media issues is enough. People have been fired for far less controversial things on Facebook

Shouldnt this social media vs professionalism issue be common knowledge by now?

If you take the opinion that corporations should gatekeep people's freedom of speech, sure.

I think it's a tricky problem. Corporations do have an interest in protecting their image but it's not hard to see how that could be abused.

I'm not sure I agree with Rapp's thesis but holy shit gamergators didn't even try to be accurate when they used it to smear her. Blatant twisting of the facts in order to destroy her.

 

[ShaggsMagoo]

I'm sorry guys, but I can't see how Nintendo did anything wrong here.

For those you saying that Nintendo should have come out in support of her, you are being incredibly naive and shortsighted. If Nintendo releases a statement of support, here is the headline you would see the next day on Fox News, CNN, CNBC, and any other 24 hour news or financial outlet:

"Nintendo publicly backs employee accused of promoting child pornography. Head of anti sex-trafficking group calling for employee's termination."

What was previously a story confined to gaming circles has now exploded to a nationwide story simply for having the words Nintendo and Child Pornography. Now you have stories running Alison's name and video of her in the background in association with the words child pornography. This is both incredibly damaging to both Nintendo and Alison personally.

Not to mention that if you back her before doing an internal investigation and then it comes out that she actually has committed a crime in connection to child pornography you have put yourself in a Chris Benoit situation and done permanent damage to your brand.

The only logical and responsible course of action as a company is to remain silent until you can complete your own internal investigation. Which they did and found information that convinced them to terminate Rapp's employment.

If you say that without the anon person divulging to Nintendo the reasons that got her fired she would not have been terminated. Well that doesn't eliminate the fact that there were still reasons for her to be fired in the first place.

If you are smoking meth in your home and your neighbor reports it to the police, the neighbor is not the reason you got arrested. It's because you were smoking meth.

 

[Sylas]

I will also say that if Nintendo's statement is true, it's ludicrous to agree with Adam Orth losing his position for going against the "corporate messaging" that Microsoft expressed but not being okay with Alison Rapp losing her position for ostensibly doing the same thing and self-promoting something Nintendo wouldn't agree with on her public twitter.

The difference exists, but the baseline is they both lost their jobs for going against corporate policy in some way. You can disagree with Nintendo's policy--but the fact is, if she was let go for going against said policy, that blame lies partially on her. You can't keep secrets for long in the modern age, as terrible as that is.

It's a big if, I think, because the timing is still suspect; But still.

 

[DrROBschiz]

If you take the opinion that corporations should gatekeep people's freedom of speech, sure.

I think it's a tricky problem. Corporations do have an interest in protecting their image but it's not hard to see how that could be abused.

I'm not sure I agree with Rapp's thesis but holy shit gamergators didn't even try to be accurate when they used it to smear her. Blatant twisting of the facts in order to destroy her.

Honestly with her stances it didnt even have to be GG for her to see a backlash and consequences for expressing her point of view

Its just how it happened here.

 

[SeanR1221]

Didn't Nintendo also fire that guy who talked about the company on a podcast?

 

[Zelias]

Nintendo have been so inept in handling this that, even if they are in the right to fire her, they've utterly failed to control the narrative. Now they look craven and weak and GG will feel empowered to go after more women in gaming. What a shitshow.

 

[jonno394]

Also, jonno394, you're cold-hearted person if you think Nintendo hasn't done anything wrong in this bullshit. Like sflufan posted on the other page:

I do lack the levels of empathy many of you guys seem to have, I can understand how annoyed she is, and how the GG stuff was not right at all, but I also don't think it is on Nintendo to defend their own employee due to their own personal social media tweets.

 

[Draxal]

I'm really wondering what the mood is in Treehouse is like right now. Posted this earlier, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there's some reshuffling of the heads there, having Pranger and Rapp terminated like this in a year is not good for such a small unit.

 

[The Boat]

Everyone is buying into the GG tactic. It's the same bullshit strategy they did with Quinn, with Sarkeesian, with Wu, and now Rapp. They dirt a person to the extent that the conversation focuses on her rather than the company not standing up to the harassment.

"The whole purpose of these campaigns is to paint a target as deserving of abuse & life ruination. stop. buying. it."

Also, jonno394, you're cold-hearted person if you think Nintendo hasn't done anything wrong in this bullshit. Like sflufan posted on the other page:

So if you actually have a nuanced opinion on this complicated situation, you're helping GG? Please stop with this. There is a lot more to this than just being pro-GG or a corporate apologist.

 

[Calamari41]

That's crazy talk that leads to accusations towards people who aren't anywhere near affiliated with that nonsense. It's a witchhunt similar to the one this thread is about, and once mob mentality kicks in, the damage is done. I (who grew up in a house of women with a strong single mother) got called sexist once here because I said I'd rather they introduce a new character to the Zelda universe rather then do a gender swap (as a black guy, I don't think color swaps are truly progressive either). Folks like that can piss off imo.

I have here in my hand a list of 205 NeoGAF posters that were known to the moderators as being members of Gamer Gate and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the dialogue of NeoGAF dot com.

 

[navy]

Chris Kluwe is basically saying that Nintendo had to keep her hired just because of GamerGate harassment.

It's one thing to condemn Nintendo for not sticking up for her, it's entirely another thing to complain about them firing her despite her breaking company policy..

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

I do lack the levels of empathy many of you guys seem to have, I can understand how annoyed she is, and how the GG stuff was not right at all, but I also don't think it is on Nintendo to defend their own employee due to their own personal social media tweets.

She is an employee of theirs who was being harassed brutally online for a period of months and they did absolutely NOTHING while it was happening to create a safer work environment or speak out against this harassment. And then they fired her.

This whole situation has made me extremely unwilling to ever consider working for NoA if this is how they treat their employees. A complete lack of empathy on the part of the higher-ups.

The point isn't what Alison herself did. The point is that Nintendo's treatment of this situation was shady AF. They allowed this to happen and criticism is warranted. Shifting things onto Alison's character is missing the point.

 

[DrROBschiz]

This is just a case of consequences following public expression

I just cant see an angle other than GG didnt need to go after her in such a way

Probably wasnt even necessary. It could have only taken one specific person being aware of her conduct to lead to her termination

 

[axisofweevils]

Didn't Nintendo also fire that guy who talked about the company on a podcast?

Yep, and they banned Dan Adelman from Social Media after he expressed sympathy towards people wanting the removal of region locking. Basically, if you work for Nintendo and have controversial opinions, probably best to lock your twitter account.

 

[jholmes]

Finding and ousting people from the gaming community that would entertain gamer gates style of ideals should never stop. Every last person who would think that way absolutely deserves to be rooted out and thrown out and ostricized from the gaming community. We owe it to the women who have been abused for decades to not allow their filth to feel comfortable playing games.

It's not your place to decide what "ideals" one might "entertain" or root out people in the community based on the "way" they think, to say nothing of ostracizing them for it.

If you want to judge someone for what they say, that's your prerogative, but the fact is you can't know what they think.

 

[Alo0oy]

Your crusade against Nintendo is this case is starting to look like simple and plain old console warrior bullshit, how about stopping this?

You can't be serious? Harassment is not limited to one platform.

 

[jonno394]

She is an employee of theirs who was being harassed brutally online for a period of months and they did absolutely NOTHING while it was happening to create a safer work environment or speak out against this harassment. And then they fired her.

This whole situation has made me extremely unwilling to ever consider working for NoA if this is how they treat their employees. A complete lack of empathy on the part of the higher-ups.

And (aside from issuing a press release like so many think they should have done) what could Nintendo have done to "create a safer working environment for her? The attacks were made through her personal twitter account? What control has Nintendo on that, none.

 

[Jumplion]

Did you read the article in question (it's not very long)? I tried my hardest to give her the benefit of the doubt and see if the man in question was being unfairly judged somehow, but there was nothing there to indicate any wrongdoing by those who prosecuted him. I'm more baffled than anything else to be honest.



How can you read that and say that there's a problem somewhere, let alone be pissed off by it?

(Bit late, but anyway)

That's not what I'm talking about. The article could be about a killer clown running around Manhattan, it doesn't matter because my point was that Rapp was using it as a way to prop up her own ideas/thesis on the subject. If I'll allow myself to do some armchair psychology, she's using it to stroke her ego with her opinion on the subject.

 

[Arkeband]

If moonlighting is allowed at NoA, why would you need to assume a fake identity for your second job...? Is this a common practice? Doesn't this interfere with things like... taxes?

This just seems so bizarre from every angle.

I also don't really understand what Nintendo could have done to "defend" her that would have made any difference in the harassment she was receiving.

 

[JP_]

Honestly with her stances it didnt even have to be GG for her to see a backlash and consequences for expressing her point of view

Its just how it happened here.

As far as I know she never talked about the college thesis until it was dug up by gators and she defended herself. Not like she was trying to promote those ideas as a Nintendo employee.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Chris Kluwe sent this message to @NintendoAmerica, which people can use as inspiration if they don't know what to write to Nintendo CSR:

"Daddy can we have the new Mario Maker 2 on NX?"

"Sorry, sweetie, daddy promised not to buy any more Nintendo products when he made a dumb decision based on less than half a story someone posted on Twitter."

GG is responsible for everything that's happened here and people are calling for a Nintendo boycott. Christ.

 

[partyphone]

cowardly bullshit

you are technically correct. and now gamergate knows it can terrorize anyone at Nintendo with impunity. why would any woman want to work at Nintendo after this? at least in a public-facing role. it's hard enough being a woman in this industry without this shit to think about.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

And (aside from issuing a press release like so many think they should have done) what could Nintendo have done to "create a safer working environment for her? The attacks were made through her personal twitter account? What control has Nintendo on that, none.

Nintendo could have worked with twitter to crack down on the harassers. They could have made a public statement condemning harassment. They didn't. Instead they stayed silent, allowed this to happen and now they look like enablers.

And this absolutely sets a precedent too. I feel like many women will be terrified of working for them now. They've made grounds more hostile not just for Alison Rapp herself, but anyone else who wants to even consider working for them, or even other game companies, in the future. They have done nothing to help what is already a dangerous industry for women.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Chris Kluwe sent this message to @NintendoAmerica, which people can use as inspiration if they don't know what to write to Nintendo CSR:

i dont know who the fuck that is but that is one hell of a misguided hill to choose to die on

 

[DrROBschiz]

As far as I know she never talked about the college thesis until it was dug up by gators and she defended herself. Not like she was trying to promote the thesis as a Nintendo employee.

That cant be it

She was targeted out of the blue by GG digging up and exposing her past on twitter?

Why not just not comment on it at all? Why go on twitter and rant?

 

[Lime]

You know people are not thinking straight when they assume that criticizing an international multi-billion dollar company for throwing their female employee under the bus during a misogynistic harassment campaign is some console warrior bullshit.

This might be the most incompetent thing done by a major game company that has repercussions across the already sexist industry and all some people can talk about is poor ol' multi-billion game company for having to endure being silent in the face of harassment of their employees for something she never did and then end up firing her in the midst of this harassment. I'm sorry, but this is frankly appalling to sit and read that people are thinking this way in regards to a company, as if they need defending for what they have failed to do and the damage they are doing.

 

[jonno394]

Nintendo could have worked with twitter to crack down on the harassers. They could have made a public statement condemning harassment. They didn't. Instead they stayed silent, allowed this to happen and now they look like enablers.

Twitter don't crack down on harassers, surely that's evident by now. How would a public statement make her workplace safer though?

 

[KingSnake]

Great article by Jim.

It’s not like Rapp or Pranger leaked secret NX information, punched a nun, or denied the Holocaust. They didn’t mouth off to their bosses, bring a monkey to the office, or refuse on principle to flush the communal toilet. They spoke. They had private lives. They existed in ways Nintendo decided it didn’t like. They were not faceless, sinless, or quiet.

Nintendo wants to maintain a family friendly visade which it does through scrubbing away any ounce of personality from its employees, a rather self-defeating plan when you think about it. All that’s left behind are the awkward scripted moments, executives with smiles etched like scars on their cold faces, and no amount of genuine heart on display.

Ultimately, there’s one sad message Nintendo is sending to all prospective future talent in the industry, and especially young women – don’t you dare get noticed.

Don’t ever be outstanding. Don’t speak up. Don’t have beliefs.

 

[navy]

Nintendo could have worked with twitter to crack down on the harassers. They could have made a public statement condemning harassment. They didn't. Instead they stayed silent, allowed this to happen and now they look like enablers.

And this absolutely sets a precedent too. I feel like many women will be terrified of working for them now. They've made grounds more hostile not just for Alison Rapp herself, but anyone else who wants to even consider working for them in the future.

Im sure Nintendo will struggle to find employees

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Since she did this second job "under a fake name, and with no real identifiers", she must've known Nintendo would disapprove, then she got found out, and Nintendo did disapprove. Fair enough.

But this second job was effectively a non-issue until gross fuckheads started a harassment campaign against her because they wanted someone to blame for "censorship". And despite her having nothing to do with localization, and basically agreeing with them that Japanese culture should remain Japanese culture, she was still the most prominent woman around, and a feminist, and thus had to be punished.

In this context, Nintendo's actions (and inactions) through this situation have negatively affected Nintendo's public image, far beyond whatever the worst case scenario otherwise could've been. How sensible was Nintendo's handling of this really? Because it seems to me that Nintendo done fucked up. From a business perspective, and from a human one.

 

[TatteredHat]

Anyone would have gotten fired from a PR position posting the stuff she did on her Twitter account.

Regardless of context, no company wants to be associated with talk of child pornography / pedophilia at all. Her also being harrassed by GG, while obviously horrible, is not a reason to not fire her.

And that's not even getting into her second job, which could be anything.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

"Daddy can we have the new Mario Maker 2 on NX?"

"Sorry, sweetie, daddy promised not to buy any more Nintendo products when he made a dumb decision based on less than half a story someone posted on Twitter."

GG is responsible for everything that's happened here and people are calling for a Nintendo boycott. Christ.

Yes, because they are at fault legitimizing gamergate. Now Nintendo has given them ok to attack more women in this industry with no consequences to follow.

 

[Sylas]

That cant be it

She was targeted out of the blue by GG digging up and exposing her past on twitter?

Why not just not comment on it at all? Why go on twitter and rant?

Because people are liable to defend their beliefs. It takes a degree of detachment that many people don't have, especially if they use social media frequently, to not defend yourself when you're the target of some kind of harassment.

She was not targeted out of the blue--they latched onto her because she's public-facing and was the perceived reason Fire Emblem was "censored." It helps that she's been outspoken about her polygamy and more risque pictures, so she was an easy target for them to point their harassment at.

 

[JP_]

That cant be it

She was targeted out of the blue by GG digging up and exposing her past on twitter?

Why not just not comment on it at all? Why go on twitter and rant?

GG didn't like her feminism so they dug up anything they could find and they found the college thesis.

 

[Lime]

I do lack the levels of empathy many of you guys seem to have, I can understand how annoyed she is, and how the GG stuff was not right at all, but I also don't think it is on Nintendo to defend their own employee due to their own personal social media tweets.

The point is, like sflufan wrote, that Nintendo could have handled this thing much better. They didn't and now they've implicitly sent an alarming message across gaming culture.

She is an employee of theirs who was being harassed brutally online for a period of months and they did absolutely NOTHING while it was happening to create a safer work environment or speak out against this harassment. And then they fired her.

This whole situation has made me extremely unwilling to ever consider working for NoA if this is how they treat their employees. A complete lack of empathy on the part of the higher-ups.

The point isn't what Alison herself did. The point is that Nintendo's treatment of this situation was shady AF. They allowed this to happen and criticism is warranted. Shifting things onto Alison's character is missing the point.

Yes exactly.

 

[sflufan]

For those you saying that Nintendo should have come out in support of her, you are being incredibly naive and shortsighted. If Nintendo releases a statement of support, here is the headline you would see the next day on Fox News, CNN, CNBC, and any other 24 hour news or financial outlet:

You can take a general stand against an internet "lynch mob mentality" without explicitly backing someone and state that you are conducting your own rigorous internal investigation consistent with the firm's internal ethics.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Im sure Nintendo will struggle to find employees

Female employees, yes. You're not seeing the point. This creates a very negative impression of the working conditions at NoA, especially for women.

Twitter don't crack down on harassers, surely that's evident by now. How would a public statement make her workplace safer though?

Is this not part of the problem?

For the second bit. Imagine if you were the target of an organized harassment campaign. If your workplace did nothing about it, how would you feel? Now how would you feel if they came out and publicly took a stance saying, "This is not acceptable." Which would make you feel more comfortable in the place you earn your livelihood every day? Which plays a more active role in creating an acceptable guideline for the industry?

Also for one thing, the attacks Alison Rapp was receiving were for things that her position in NOA meant she had no involvement in.

 

[MoonFrog]

No matter what her job was, and I'm open to it having been something Nintendo could fire her for, the point is that they wouldn't know but for the harassment campaign and that is a horrible stream of information to have or give in to.

So perhaps it is true that she would have lost her job even if Nintendo had figured it out in a more innocent way. The thing is they didn't. Now, I get that most people or companies would abandon an employee in that case as someone doing more harm than good to their fellows and having done something off color. I think people getting on their high horse in here are a little precious and quick to throw stones and quick to paint things as the greatest evil, but that doesn't make it right.

And this is the most charitable reading for Nintendo's management, but it does fit both parties' statements.

Also: I thought GG liked child porn?! And wasn't she not a localizer?! I don't get why this even happened.

 

[Silver Arrows]

You know people are not thinking straight when they assume that criticizing an international multi-billion dollar company for throwing their female employee under the bus during a misogynistic harassment campaign is some console warrior bullshit.

This might be the most incompetent thing done by a major game company that has repercussions across the already sexist industry and all some people can talk about is poor ol' multi-billion game company for having to endure being silent in the face of harassment of their employees for something she never did and then end up firing her in the midst of this harassment. I'm sorry, but this is frankly appalling to sit and read that people are thinking this way in regards to a company, as if they need defending for what they have failed to do and the damage they are doing.

Welcome to the Nintendo martyr complex, where people feel the need to defend the company even when they pull off rephrehensible shit like this. Disgusting is all I have to say.

 

[Alpha_eX]

I'm playing catch up here, she was moonlighting at another company? I think it's weird Nintendo would have it in their policy to allow moonlighting.

I'd be out the door if I were caught moonlighting at a rival company, was that the case here?

 

[NotLiquid]

And (aside from issuing a press release like so many think they should have done) what could Nintendo have done to "create a safer working environment for her? The attacks were made through her personal twitter account? What control has Nintendo on that, none.

The best thing they could have feasibly done to support her from the initial accusations was come out and straight up say that Allison had nothing to do with the localization crap that made her into a target.

But after a while it's clear it became a more innate hatred because GG are scumbags and I'm not sure what the possible recourse would have been for that.

 

[Orniletter]

She had to use a pseudonym to hide her second job from Nintendo, this should set off all kinds of alarm bells.

It's unfortunate that Nintendo or pretty much every publisher ignored GG harassing innocent people, or that GG is even a thing. It really is.

But there is obviously more to this story than "evil Nintendo firing good woman".

 

[Draxal]

Great article by Jim.

I honestly think it's a horrible article and I'm prone to like Jim.

Pranger's termination is a completely different situation than Rapp's termination. Pranger's is more like Adam Orth's than this one.

 

[Sylas]

I'm playing catch up here, she was moonlighting at another company? I think it's weird Nintendo would have it in their policy to allow moonlighting.

Not necessarily another company. We don't know where she was moonlighting, but she was operating under a pseudonym. Nintendo's policy is seemingly to allow moonlighting, but it's fully possible whatever her second job was went against their corporate policy.

 

[Arkeband]

Great article by Jim.

The problem with this is that men publicly defending lowering age of consent laws, even with the most well-reasoned research, in a company who generally targets children for their products, would have been fired post haste.

Telling women "don't have beliefs" kind of glosses over the nuance of what those beliefs were.

 

[skullmuffins]

If moonlighting is allowed at NoA, why would you need to assume a fake identity for your second job...? Is this a common practice? Doesn't this interfere with things like... taxes?

It could just be something like a writing gig where she published under a pseudonym. It's not that uncommon and presumably her employer would have her legit info for, as you say, tax purposes.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

the disconnect in this thread is absolutely amazing to me. blaming nintendo instead of the fuckheads who canceled out her anonymity with whatever her second job was? great stuff

what is nintendo supposed to do when they find out she's moonlighting under a fake name doing something that is against their brand image? do they ignore what they find out and shoot the messenger, aka random users on the internet? or do they behave as a corporation does in the real world and terminate her employment since, as a pr person, she is literally one of the faces of the company?

is this bizarro-gaf again? did i stay on the bus too long?

 

[navy]

No matter what her job was, and I'm open to it having been something Nintendo could fire her for, the point is that they wouldn't know but for the harassment campaign and that is a horrible stream of information to have or give in to.

So perhaps it is true that she would have lost her job even if Nintendo had figured it out in a more innocent way. The thing is they didn't. Now, I get that most people or companies would abandon an employee in that case as someone doing more harm than good to their fellows and having done something off color. I think people getting on their high horse in here are a little precious and quick to throw stones and quick to paint things as the greatest evil, but that doesn't make it right.

And this is the most charitable reading for Nintendo's management, but it does fit both parties' statements.

Also: I thought GG liked child porn?! And wasn't she not a localizer?! I don't get why this even happened.

"They wouldnt have known without GamerGate"

Where is this narrative coming from?