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[LordOfChaos]

Maybe this will be like the Butter Battle Book and both of them just have them ready in case the other one surprise launches a 1.5 upgrade, and neither will until then

Yalls know the book I mean

 

[Lady Gaia]

Console lives last 5-7 years. That's the way it's been since the beginning of consoles. Why fuck with that?

Developers, publishers, and manufacturers have found it harder to deal with a ground-up console generation every 5-7 years. Witness all the first and second-party studios that have their first Xbox One or PS4 title shipping 2.5-3 years after the start of the generation. Witness the rise and fall of multiple manufacturers who haven't been able to deal with all the logistical challenges. Witness the beloved developers who don't manage to make the transition because funding a ground-up reinvention of their technical and artistic output is a nightmare.

The gaming industry needs a less apocalyptic approach to adopting new technology. This is starting to look like one strategy.

 

[Brofist]

I'll wait for the 2018 model

 

[AmyS]

I am sure a most consoles including 360 and ps3 could do 1080p60 if it was a tetris game. Simpler graphics is easier to do obviously.

Ridge Racer 7 was native 1080p @ 60fps on PS3 at launch.

 

[Lady Gaia]

An experiment is done to prove something so they proved that people don't want a better version of a console.

It was never really intended to be a game console first and foremost, never mind a better one. It didn't even come with game controllers.

 

[small44]

I guess hydrogen cars should stop then...sometimes you need conditions to change and technology to advance enough to support the idea properly.

Ok, what are the conditions needed for iterative console to succeed?

 

[Killroyskbg]

May not be cheaper. For me, a pc is a utility device with many functions, from work to entertainment. I absolutely need a computer and can justify the cost. I have forgone the entertainment aspect/cost of a pc in favor of consoles for many years. 1 reason is I don't like iterative hardware. I put up with it for utility devices like phones and computers but only focused on what i needed for daily utility. Consoles provided some relief on the entertainment side. Overall console cost spread over 5 years and fixed hardware was something I was ok with. Didnt need to worry about updates, the platform was the best it could be for the entire gen. Iterative consoles take away that incentive for me. Times change and so can I. If iterative is the future of console entertainment then i would rather direct that cost into expanding my desktops utility.

But you will instead spend money on uppgrading singel parts? Or buy new once in a while? That wont cost you over time? I dont see the difference? And you dont have to uppgrade every time a new iterative console launches just like you dont have to uppgrade a GPU as soon as a new one does. Again I dont see the reason unless you want one less box or to decide for yourself how games will run?

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Ok, what are the conditions needed for iterative console to succeed?

Markets and logistics that provide timely delivery. Ecosystems to sustain the experience.
Products that are appealing to consumers.

None of this is rocket science. People talk about mind share and all sorts of things that are needed for success. The reason phones are released annually is mind share and rapidly developing technology. You can't just sit around and let competition pass you by because a model use to work. Things change. Look at blackberry, they refused to change. Palm refused to change. You can't say it worked before, it'll work again. It just doesn't work that way. Trends change and force adaptation

 

[trebbble]

Why would they? What other technology company offers trade-ins? Well I guess could could say motor vehicle companies do. Thats about it though.

Apple? They'll buy your previous iPhone when you upgrade.

 

[Tutomos]

I'd like to think of it as PS4 is Sony's Toyota and PS4K is their Lexus. They will be marketed separately and they are going to reach different audiences. I also think that this is a risk that they need to take, specifically when they are leader in market share to see if this is a viable revenue generator.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'd like to think of it as PS4 is Sony's Toyota and PS4K is their Lexus. They will be marketed separately and they are going to reach different audiences. I also think that this is a risk that they need to take, specifically when they are leader in market share to see if this is a viable revenue generator.

Great example

 

[jeffram]

Console lives last 5-7 years. That's the way it's been since the beginning of consoles. Why fuck with that?

Games didn't used to take 2-4 years to make and cost 10s of millions of dollars. Having forward compatible systems with more options for consumers makes development far less risky.

Look at Kojima productions, their game is at least 3 years out, likely ps5 territory, knowing its easy to be compatible with previous systems mean they can count on a large install base.

Consoles are moving towards forwards compatible iterations and it will be better for everyone in the long run. Change is bad sometimes sure, but one things for sure, if you don't change the world will pass you by at some point.

 

[Wishmaster92]

sli, and there wont be a generational leap this is pure for 4k output.

In case people missed it.

 

[Bsigg12]

Go buy a PC then imho

Currently playing KI on my PC. 980ti and an i7-6700k. I still want consoles that are relevant and powerful for my entertainment center.

 

[small44]

Markets and logistics that provide timely delivery. Ecosystems to sustain the experience.
Products that are appealing to consumers.

None of this is rocket science. People talk about mind share and all sorts of things that are needed for success. The reason phones are released annually is mind share and rapidly developing technology. You can't just sit around and let competition pass you by because a model use to work. Things change. Look at blackberry, they refused to change. Palm refused to change. You can't say it worked before, it'll work again. It just doesn't work that way. Trends change and force adaptation

We have something called PC which are basically iterative consoles in exception that PC have even more choice and PC technology will always top consoles technology even if they are iterative.
If PC didn't exist I would said those iterative consoles would succeed.

 

[Naudi]

But you will instead spend money on uppgrading singel parts? Or buy new once in a while? That wont cost you over time? I dont see the difference? And you dont have to uppgrade every time a new iterative console launches just like you dont have to uppgrade a GPU as soon as a new one does. Again I dont see the reason unless you want one less box or to decide for yourself how games will run?

There is no point in arguing all these people saying they are going to switch to PC to solve this "problem". It's like they are ok with choosing to not upgrade GPU every year but not PS4 every 3-4. Really makes zero sense.

 

[Gold_Loot]

An experiment is done to prove something so they proved that people don't want a better version of a console.

It was twenty years ago, it was a luxury item *SMH*

 

[The God]

Why would that have to be the case? This is just a luxury item that does exactly what the other do only better. Look at how many people on GAF that complain about sub 1080 resolution, fps, AA and how these consoles should have been stronger. Now all those have solution to it. For casuals there wont be the same need and they can buy the regular PS4 and play the same games for a cheaper price. They dont need to advertise it with exclusive games there will be markets for both anyway.

Because Sony is not going to introduce a potentially $500 console and leave it at that. "Watch your movies in 4K" isn't going to be good enough when you could get the OGPS4 for $250. So what they'll do is develop GoW4, TLoU2 etc with PS4K in mind, using the additional power and all to get as much people to buy into as possible. Wouldn't be surprised to see exclusives either tbh.

 

[farmerboy]

Yea the God of War 4 to me reeks of April fools.

They better show off both versions at E3 if it is infact true. ANd base PS4 versions better look fucking tits.

PS4 only at E3.

Then the PS4K release revealed around launch of said console.

And I will double dip cos I'm an idiot.

And it will look the tits on both.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

We have something called PC which are basically iterative consoles in exception that PC have even more choice and PC technology will always top consoles technology even if they are iterative.
If PC didn't exist I would said those iterative consoles would succeed.

You keep forgetting that not everyone wants a PC. Some people like the console experience. They also like new technology ever so often. A 3 year release for new technology is not going to hurt anyone. The PS5 will likely leave the PS4 behind, but the PS4K is all about making your cheeseburger a double double. Everyone is eating. Some are just eating a bit more.

 

[jeffram]

We have something called PC which are basically iterative consoles in exception that PC have even more choice and PC technology will always top consoles technology even if they are iterative.
If PC didn't exist I would said those iterative consoles would succeed.

The value of the consoles is they provide value with a low barrier to entry, simplicity of use, and a social experience. All of that will continue to differentiate consoles, which will now have multiple points of entry with forward compatible software to add to that.

 

[MaDKaT]

But you will instead spend money on uppgrading singel parts? Or buy new once in a while? That wont cost you over time? I dont see the difference? And you dont have to uppgrade every time a new iterative console launches just like you dont have to uppgrade a GPU as soon as a new one does. Again I dont see the reason unless you want one less box or to decide for yourself how games will run?

Yeah, 1 less box to keep up with as well as performance. True, I don't need to upgrade but if performance is going to become tiered on consoles, I'd rather not be at the bottom. The money I spend on consoles (even 1 +accessories ) is more than enough to keep a pc current. You certainly don't need the latest gpu and I already need to keep a core system reasonably current.

 

[Killroyskbg]

We have something called PC which are basically iterative consoles in exception that PC have even more choice and PC technology will always top consoles technology even if they are iterative.
If PC didn't exist I would said those iterative consoles would succeed.

And since the beginning they have been and still many people prefer consoles. This will change nothing only giving consumers more options and while some might leave for PC it might just as well bring people from PC to consoles now that they can provide better performance more often and like PC you have no more need for backwards compability since there wont be new complicated architectures but still provide the ease of use.

 

[Papacheeks]

PS4 only at E3.

Then the PS4K release revealed around launch of said console.

And I will double dip cos I'm an idiot.

And it will look the tits on both.

Hahah!

 

[EatinOlives]

The more I think about this, the more I think this is mostly due to pressure from the industry side of things. I have a hard time thinking there's a real clamor for completely new hardware every 3 years, especially if it's just a spec jump. But there's several upsides for developers on this one:

Iterative consoles, as Phil Spencer said earlier this year, means no longer having to do significant groundwork in developing for a new platform. If the platform remains the same and it's the specs that change, that makes things easier. No longer do we have developers trying to pressure Sony/MS into putting specific specs and then subsequently being disappointed that he machines are weaker than they thought. No longer do Sony/MS need to do the entire "new platform" song and dance and try to convince gamers to hop on their platform as well as developers to make games for it. Consoles are also pretty risky since if you fuck up the launch of your console, it takes YEARS before you can get a do-over. I know MS really wants a do-over right about now.

Unfortunately none of this has much to do with the consumer (except obviously companies doing well on the business side of things means better products for the consumer). They're still asking people to spend hundreds after about 3 years (if the PS4K launches this year) to play the latest and greatest, and if this keeps happening there's no real telling how many iterations can keep a console before you need to upgrade. Plus, if they keep doing iterations in one continuous never-ending cycle, how do you drum up interest? Because new console generations also means new controllers, new hardware design, new sleek UIs, that's enough to get people excited. That's another thing they need to convince people about.

 

[MAtgS]

Crazy that Sony had this in the works and didn't want DriveClub 4K to show the leap.

They got GT coming.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

So what they'll do is develop GoW4, TLoU2 etc with PS4K in mind, using the additional power and all to get as much people to buy into as possible. Wouldn't be surprised to see exclusives either tbh.

The flaw here is Sony benefits little financially from moving hardware. They benefit much more from moving software. They care about getting as many people on their platform buying shit as possible not this borderline conspiracy you've cooked up.

 

[Keihart]

tsssk this is horriblee for the console ecosystem. I guess i'll play the waiting game because i have no desire in encouraging this model and because it has made me completly forget about VR in consoles and just aim for PC now.

This move will make a lot of entusiast gamers to jump to PC if they haven't, so yey PC gaming because that market share will grow a lot and games will stop targeting consoles instead of PCs with higer specs.

 

[David Ricardo]

In case people missed it.

We read that, but we know it's bs. This is not about 4k, it's about VR.

Games didn't used to take 2-4 years to make and cost 10s of millions of dollars. Having forward compatible systems with more options for consumers makes development far less risky.

Look at Kojima productions, their game is at least 3 years out, likely ps5 territory, knowing its easy to be compatible with previous systems mean they can count on a large install base.

Consoles are moving towards forwards compatible iterations and it will be better for everyone in the long run. Change is bad sometimes sure, but one things for sure, if you don't change the world will pass you by at some point.

There is no such thing as forward compatible systems. It's a marketing term for 2 versions of the same game being present in the same disc.

If you design a game that requires any hardware capability that is present in the PS4k but not in the og PS4, it won't work in the og PS4.

Also, why do you have to release PS4k in Q1 2017 for the PS4 to be forward compatible with it? Why can't we wait till Q4 2018 and have a more significant jump in performance while still being "forward compatible"?

 

[Hidden One]

If they release it Q4 2018 they shouldn't even release it at all.

PS5 will most likely be shown at E3 2019.

 

[Equanimity]

Because Sony is not going to introduce a potentially $500 console and leave it at that. "Watch your movies in 4K" isn't going to be good enough when you could get the OGPS4 for $250. So what they'll do is develop GoW4, TLoU2 etc with PS4K in mind, using the additional power and all to get as much people to buy into as possible.Wouldn't be surprised to see exclusives either tbh.

That's not going to happen, in my opinion.

 

[spwolf]

looking over FFXV performance PS4 vs XB1, it is very silly for people to think PS4 will be lowest common denominator when there is XB1 to hold everything back.

 

[Keihart]

If they release it Q4 2018 they shouldn't even release it at all.

PS5 will most likely be shown at E3 2019.

that's the point he was triying to make i would think.

 

[David Ricardo]

If they release it Q4 2018 they shouldn't even release it at all.

PS5 will most likely be shown at E3 2019.

The difference between PS4k and PS5 is just the name. If you release a PS4k in 2019 with all the performance you can get for 400-500€, how is that different from releasing a PS5?

 

[Moneal]

We read that, but we know it's bs. This is not about 4k, it's about VR.


There is no such thing as forward compatible systems. It's a marketing term for 2 versions of the same game being present in the same disc.

If you design a game that requires any hardware capability that is present in the PS4k but not in the og PS4, it won't work in the og PS4.

Also, why do you have to release PS4k in Q1 2017 for the PS4 to be forward compatible with it? Why can't we wait till Q4 2018 and have a more significant jump in performance while still being "forward compatible"?

do you have to get a different download for each different PC configuration? does steam scan your system and find the right files to download? Or do you just download one set of files, and configure the setting for your PC?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I'm calling it: If PS4K doesn't come out this year, it's not coming out at all.

Releasing it in 2017 is beyond stupid when they can just wait a year and release PS5 instead, regardless of what Microsoft (and to a lesser extent, Nintendo) does.

 

[The God]

The flaw here is Sony benefits little financially from moving hardware. They benefit much more from moving software. They care about getting as many people on their platform buying shit as possible not this borderline conspiracy you've cooked up.

The exclusives thing is my own prediction, but everything else I said is in the OP.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This not a Sony thing .
All other companies want to do this also .
Starting back from zero every gen put pressure on everyone .
It's one of the reason why this gen start off so slow 3rd party wise .
If they stop making games for PS4 3 years from now that would be a gen .
So you can either get a PS4K which will be cheap or a PS5 .

Does that mean its right? Should Sony have followed their leads? What good does it to splinter the user base? Nobody has answered that yet. There is no real reason for it besides a whim.

You dont follow Apple just because they exist, they aren't even in the same category, nor do they have anywhere similar userbases

 

[Killroyskbg]

tsssk this is horriblee for the console ecosystem. I guess i'll play the waiting game because i have no desire in encouraging this model and because it has made me completly forget about VR in consoles and just aim for PC now.

This move will make a lot of entusiast gamers to jump to PC if they haven't, so yey PC gaming because that market share will grow a lot and games will stop targeting consoles instead of PCs with higer specs.

Yeah its not like the Vive or oculus with controllers wont cost you equal probably to what both the PS4k and the VR headset will cost. Oh there is also that high end rig you have to buy. And why would entusiast jump to PC when they finaly have to option to haveTbetter performing games every now and then now? that was the main reason enthuisast jumper to PC in the first place...

 

[Corto]

The flaw here is Sony benefits little financially from moving hardware. They benefit much more from moving software. They care about getting as many people on their platform buying shit as possible not this borderline conspiracy you've cooked up.

Exactly. This move is Sony trying to keep a high degree of engagement in the playstation platform. And along with moving software the Plus subscriptions racking up.

 

[jeffram]

We read that, but we know it's bs. This is not about 4k, it's about VR.


There is no such thing as forward compatible systems. It's a marketing term for 2 versions of the same game being present in the same disc.

If you design a game that requires any hardware capability that is present in the PS4k but not in the og PS4, it won't work in the og PS4.

Also, why do you have to release PS4k in Q1 2017 for the PS4 to be forward compatible with it? Why can't we wait till Q4 2018 and have a more significant jump in performance while still being "forward compatible"?

I don't understand where the "it's about vr" argument is coming from. They are clearly demonstrating and releasing PSVR on PS4, which is before the launch of PS4K.

Either way, all indications are they will share the same library, on he same discs. Forward compatible meaning that a game will still be playable on older hardware, even though it's been developed to support newer hardware as well.

Why does it make sense now? because the jump to 14nm happened now, after a what? 5 year stall? This might be the only significant improvement to efficiency we see for another 5 years. Waiting a year and a half more might not change things all that much. Further, if sony waits for a six year cycle for the PS4, a competitor could come in with twice the power of the PS4 for far less than twice the money and eat sony's lunch for 3 years.

There will be more PS hardware, whatever the naming convention is, and when it comes out, the software will be playable on it, as well as PS4K (and maybe even PS4 if we're lucky). It will be up to you to choose how long to wait, and for what significance in performance will make it worth it for you.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Because Sony is not going to introduce a potentially $500 console and leave it at that. "Watch your movies in 4K" isn't going to be good enough when you could get the OGPS4 for $250. So what they'll do is develop GoW4, TLoU2 etc with PS4K in mind, using the additional power and all to get as much people to buy into as possible. Wouldn't be surprised to see exclusives either tbh.

Or they want to sell as much software as possible since that is what makes then money not hardware. Seriously?

 

[KingBroly]

Does that mean its right? Should Sony have followed their leads? What good does it to splinter the user base? Nobody has answered that yet. There is no real reason for it besides a whim.

You dont follow Apple just because they exist, they aren't even in the same category, nor do they have anywhere similar userbases

This PS4K thing feels like a 'wanting to have its' cake and eat it too' thing for developers. But it feels like it has a massive potential to backfire. Why? Because developers are seemingly going to move up to new hardware while letting inferior hardware flounder, DESPITE them outnumbering the newer, beefier hardware by a wide margin. It just feels like a new generation, but with major consequences instead of hype.

 

[SmiteOfHand]

The exclusives thing is my own prediction, but everything else I said is in the OP.

You implied Sony's motivation is to push people to buy new hardware. Nothing in the OP indicates that. Exclusives don't work that way. Sony makes the exact same amount of money selling a $60 game to people on PS4 as they do on PS4K.

 

[David Ricardo]

do you have to get a different download for each different PC configuration? does steam scan your system and find the right files to download? Or do you just download one set of files, and configure the setting for your PC?

Nope, you have everything you need in one set of files. You could also put all the files you need for a game to work in both PS4 and PS3 in the same disc and that doesn't make PS3 forward compatible with the PS4. It's just both versions of the game in one disc, or set of files or whatever.

 

[The Beard]

I'd like to think of it as PS4 is Sony's Toyota and PS4K is their Lexus. They will be marketed separately and they are going to reach different audiences. I also think that this is a risk that they need to take, specifically when they are leader in market share to see if this is a viable revenue generator.

Sure, if you bought a Lexus last year and then Toyota decides to drop the Toyota name while making Lexus their new entry level vehicle, and introducing a new bigger and better luxury brand.

 

[TEH-CJ]

I'm calling it: If PS4K doesn't come out this year, it's not coming out at all.

Releasing it in 2017 is beyond stupid when they can just wait a year and release PS5 instead, regardless of what Microsoft (and to a lesser extent, Nintendo) does.

PS5 is at least another 6 years away. I think releasing a more powerful playstation is the best move sony can make, and I sure as hell do not want a repeat of last gen. The ps3 overstayed its welcome and games were bursting at the seams. With a revised more powerful ps4 on its way, at least we know developers have a lot more breathing room. I have no idea why people are in such an uproar over this.

 

[PuppetMaster]

This PS4K thing feels like a 'wanting to have its' cake and eat it too' thing for developers. But it feels like it has a massive potential to backfire. Why? Because developers are seemingly going to move up to new hardware while letting inferior hardware flounder, DESPITE them outnumbering the newer, beefier hardware by a wide margin. It just feels like a new generation, but with major consequences instead of hype.

PS2 invalidates your whole post.

 

[Keihart]

Yeah its not like the Vive or oculus with controllers wont cost you equal probably to what both the PS4k and the VR headset will cost. Oh there is also that high end rig you have to buy. And why would entusiast jump to PC when they finaly have to option to haveTbetter performing games every now and then now? that was the main reason enthuisast jumper to PC in the first place...

Do i spend 1000k or more on PS4K plus VR or in a new PC rig and VR later on if i want to wich won't be obsolete in 3 years?. Not that hard of a predicament really if PS4K is what the OP state is going to be.

 

[Corto]

Nope, you have everything you need in one set of files. You could also put all the files you need for a game to work in both PS4 and PS3 in the same disc and that doesn't make PS3 forward compatible with the PS4. It's just both versions of the game in one disc, or set of files or whatever.

Putting a PS3 version and a PS4 version in the same disk would be more akin to have Windows and Mac versions of a game in the same disk. PS4 and PS4K are just the same platform, same OS, same game files, different graphical profile/settings. The forward compatible thing is just to assure that a game that runs on a PS4k will run on the PS4.