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[Prisoner KSC2-303]

The point is your phone *isnt* outdated - there is just a newer one. Your phone still works just fine, and will do for a few years. But that's no reason to freeze development and not being anything new out when technology allows.

Sorry, perhaps I should've been clearer. When I used the term "outdated", I wasn't referring to obsolete technology, but rather that which is no longer at the forefront. VCRs still work, but I'd consider them outdated (obviously I'm not saying a VCR is akin to a PS4, but it's just an example of working tech).

I don't think anyone's advocating freezing development of new things, just questioning whether breaking the traditional cycle for consoles is a good idea.

Let's be honest, we still have very little information. This could just be a 4k box, with negligible benefits for the vast majority of titles beyond the upscaling.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Why does it matter how they intended to release the game so long as they get the most out of the OG PS4 hardware and it still looks and performs great?

Whats going to happen in year 4 and 5 if PS4.5 gets 10s of millions of units, the PS4 will get the less than castoffs. Developers can't be arsed to optimise games for the PS4 properly right now let alone when a newer, faster PS4 comes out.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Why does it matter how they intended to release the game so long as they get the most out of the OG PS4 hardware and it still looks and performs great?

And when they make the game for the stronger system in mind as their new baseline OGPS4 just got shafted and if they use OGPS4 as a baseline the PS4K owners might feel like they got shafted. It's the whole "Consoles are holding us back!" from the PC crowd

 

[Dahaka]

Why does it matter how they intended to release the game so long as they get the most out of the OG PS4 hardware and it still looks and performs great?

someone else has the better version and he doesn't.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Whats going to happen in year 4 and 5 if PS4.5 gets 10s of millions of units, the PS4 will get the less than castoffs. Developers can't be arsed to optimise games for the PS4 properly right now let alone when a newer, faster PS4 comes out.

PS4 OG will continue to sell, especially if the price is dropped. Anyways, I think that developers are doing a really good job at utilising these machines at the moment. I can only think of a few standout examples recently that speak to outright laziness.

And when they make the game for the stronger system in mind as their new baseline OGPS4 just got shafted and if they use OGPS4 as a baseline the PS4K owners might feel like they got shafted. It's the whole "Consoles are holding us back!" from the PC crowd

First party developers aren't going to shaft OGPS4, and multiplat developers have always used a more powerful system as their baseline. It's called PC.

 

[omonimo]

someone else has the better version and he doesn't.

Someone has always the better version. But at least developers care to optimize the lower setting on the console. Just imagine ps4k will become the new lead in the market. Old ps4 adopter needs to buy ps4k if they want a guaranteed solid port.
Yeah you can continue to play on ps4. But if the new game risk to become like per like The Evil Within performance wise, ugh. It's over on ps4.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

someone else has the better version and he doesn't.

I don't care about the better version. I care about what version I am going to get after the developer has finished spending most of its time on the flashy, all singing, all dancing PS4K version.

Why are people assuming I am whining just because someone will have something I don't?

PS4 OG will continue to sell, especially if the price is dropped. Anyways, I think that developers are doing a really good job at utilising these machines at the moment. I can only think of a few standout examples recently that speak to outright laziness.

What you mean like the current situation is with the PS4 being 40% faster than Xbox One and the Xbox One versions of games being 900p or having weird 720p to 900p dynamic resolution scaling, but ultimately being less than PS4 version?

That's only 40% power difference. What's going to happen with PS4 and OG Xbox One, if that gets a .5 upgrade, when they are both 100% faster than their predecessors?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

This is going to be a very long year in console gaming on GAF, isn't it?

*retires to bunker*

 

[Muzicfreq]

PS4 OG will continue to sell, especially if the price is dropped. Anyways, I think that developers are doing a really good job at utilising these machines at the moment. I can only think of a few standout examples recently that speak to outright laziness.



First party developers aren't going to shaft OGPS4, and multiplat developers have always used a more powerful system as their baseline. It's called PC.

But the target is which one?

 

[Jabba]

This is going to be a very long year in console gaming on GAF, isn't it?

*retires to bunker*

Methinks so.

Got any potted meat for trade?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I don't care about the better version. I care about what version I am going to get after the developer has finished spending most of its time on the flashy, all singing, all dancing PS4K version.

Why are people assuming I am whining just because someone will have something I don't?



What you mean like the current situation is with the PS4 being 40% faster than Xbox One and the Xbox One versions of games being 900p or having weird 720p to 900p dynamic resolution scaling?

That's only 40% power difference. What's going to happen with PS4 and OG Xbox One, if that gets a .5 upgrade, when they are both 100% faster than their predecessors?

Developers will continue to build their games on PC and scale them back to accommodate lower end hardware. PS4 games will continue to be 1080p/30~60fps or 900p/60fps. I'm still not understanding why PS4K will change this.

 

[gus-gus]

TheLegendOfMart;200012148]The people running them can. Ken Kutaragi the insane idiot who thought two CELL processors would be good enough to run dual HDMI out at 120FPS then when they realised their mistake they got an Nvidia off the shelf GPU and bolted it onto the system.

The same idiot who said the PS3 would teach people discipline and that people should get a second job just to afford it.

That kind of mentality is resurfacing.

That is still not arrogant or smug. There was a business plan on the table that they went with and it backfired. Is he still in charge? Don Mattrick had his own vision of the Xbox one, the market responded by saying no this is not for us. Is mattrick around? End of the story, their business model didn't work.

Comments made by a person or two in the company doesn't mean that the company is smug or arrogant. It's a company, that's it.

Also where do you see that mentality resurfacing? I haven't been in this thread much was there an announcement made or an odd comment made by an executive?

I have a reasonably guess as to why this could be happening now in the console space.

 

[omonimo]

PS4 OG will continue to sell, especially if the price is dropped. Anyways, I think that developers are doing a really good job at utilising these machines at the moment. I can only think of a few standout examples recently that speak to outright laziness.



First party developers aren't going to shaft OGPS4, and multiplat developers have always used a more powerful system as their baseline. It's called PC.

False. Most of the AAA titles are developed with in mind the actual console hardware. Even The Witcher 3. If the 'harwdare bar' will be raised, obviously old ps4 port could runs even worst. It's pure math.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Developers will continue to build their games on PC and scale them back to accommodate lower end hardware. PS4 games will continue to be 1080p/30~60fps or 900p/60fps. I'm still not understanding why PS4K will change this.

If the PS4K takes off like PS4 did it will become the new baseline, games will be optimised for 1080p30~60 and upscaled to 4K. What happens to PS4 games?

The resolution starts to drop, framerates will be 30 instead of 60 for 60fps games, and sub 30 for 30fps games and image quality will ultimately suffer.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

False. Most of the AAA titles are developed with in mind the actual console hardware. Even The Witcher 3.

So Witcher 3 was made for PS4 and XB1 and up ported to PC? Yeah, I don't think so.

 

[Corto]

But the target is which one?

The one that has 40M devices sold and growing.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Methinks so.

Got any potted meat for trade?

I got tins of Shippam's beef spread and Heinz beans!

 

[boredandlazy]

Someone has always the better version. But at least developers care to optimize the lower setting on the console. Just imagine ps4k will become the new lead in the market. Old ps4 adopter needs to buy ps4k if they want a guaranteed solid port.
Yeah you can continue to play on ps4. But if the new game risk to become like per like The Evil Within performance wise, ugh. It's over on ps4.

Why would the developers prioritise the SKU that will by far have the smallest userbase?

 

[geordiemp]

What's going to happen with PS4 and OG Xbox One, if that gets a .5 upgrade, when they are both 100% faster than their predecessors?

Good point, but imagine a world where PS4K does not happen....

if NX is 2.5 TF, Xb2 is 4 TF and all MS games go to games for windows app store and most new Pc's are 5-10 TF,

That is a real possibility next year. Sony ps4 and OG Xb1 will be the poor relations to everybody.

Do Sony sit back and let the Ps4 owners who want shiny things migrate to more powerful competitors ?

If sony do nothing and loose active Ps4 players share, maybe games will come out from third parties that dont run so well on OG ps4....at 900p30....because everyone moved to more powerful competitor hardware.

Sony would be forced into a Ps5 in 2018 if they do nothing by competitors anyway imo

The way I see it, technology and games will progress no matter what sony do.

 

[omonimo]

So Witcher 3 was made for PS4 and XB1 and up ported to PC? Yeah, I don't think so.

More or less yes. You haven't to believe to me but to what they said CD developers about the graphic of the game.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Why would the developers prioritise the SKU that will by far have the smallest userbase?

Because remember when they did it with n3DS? Yeah, me neither....

 

[omonimo]

Why would the developers prioritise the SKU that will by far have the smallest userbase?

Well it will not happens immediately. But if ps4.5 will be a success, sales wise, ps4 port will be sacrified. AAA have to invest in more ports.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Because remember when they did it with n3DS? Yeah, me neither....

It's only been out a year and games made for it run and look like complete shit on 3DS. The OP even says some games are being targeted at PS4K baseline. You aren't helping your case.

 

[Equanimity]

If the PS4K takes off like PS4 did it will become the new baseline, games will be optimised for 1080p30~60 and upscaled to 4K. What happens to PS4 games?

The resolution starts to drop, framerates will be 30 instead of 60 for 60fps games, and sub 30 for 30fps games and image quality will ultimately suffer.

The OG PS4 will most probably have a 55-60 million lead by then. Devs are not going to abandon or shift their priorities to the pro system.

Your assumption isn't rational, in my opinion.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

The OG PS4 will havea 55 million lead by then. Devs are not going to abandon or shift their priorities to the pro system.

Your assumtion isn't rational, in my opinion.

The OP says games are already being aimed at a console that isn't even out yet. How do you think they will run on PS4 that is 100% less powerful?

 

[odhiex]

I don't felt cheated when they (sony) eventually releasing a newer ps4 model (4.5/4k whatever), even so I recently bought a second ps4 in September last year.

So...yeah.

 

[sandkiller]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but there's some interesting points in the following article:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2016/04/so_the_ps4k_has_been_under_our_nose_all_along

(...) comments made by Netflix chief Neil Hunt all the way back in February 2015, where he said that Sony had "promised" his company a 4K capable PS4 eons ago.

Hunt said Sony had “promised” a hardware rev for the PS4 that will include a 4K video capability

Link: http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6455936

 

[omonimo]

The OG PS4 will havea 55 million lead by then. Devs are not going to abandon or shift their priorities to the pro system.

Your assumtion isn't rational, in my opinion.

Like I said, it not will happens immediately but if the market response will be positive, ps4 ports could be more rushed.

 

[geordiemp]

Well it will not happens immediately. But if ps4.5 will be a success, sales wise, ps4 port will be sacrified. AAA have to invest in more ports.

Like I said, it not will happens immediately but if the market response will be positive, ps4 ports could be more rushed.

If you look at say First light, it ran at 45 FPS at 1080 and looked beautiful, you could run it as it was or cap it at 30 FPS in the menu.

Now a Ps4K would run that game at 60 FPS. Is that a bad thing ? And you cant say Ps4 got a down port as Sucker punch did a damn fine job on that game, it still looks unbelievable today.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

It's only been out a year and games made for it run and look like complete shit on 3DS. The OP even says some games are being targeted at PS4K baseline. You aren't helping your case.

What games? Hyrule Warriors? One game.....

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I agree that competition is a big driver of this change.

If Sony were to stay with OG PS4 and the competition upgraded meaning PS4 sales fell away and PS5 couldn't happen, what would those that oppose this now say to that?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but there's some interesting points in the following article:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2016/04/so_the_ps4k_has_been_under_our_nose_all_along





Link: http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/6455936

It's possible that there will be a PS4 slim with 4K video playback but also a PS4K 2x GPU/CPU power.

What games? Hyrule Warriors? One game.....

Doesn't Xenoblade chronicles run better on n3DS?

 

[Equanimity]

The OP says games are already being aimed at a console that isn't even out yet. How do you think they will run on PS4 that is 100% less powerful?

That's not what the OP said. Taking advantage of extra power and making PS4K the baseline for future software are not one in the same.

Like I said, it not will happens immediately but if the market response will be positive, ps4 ports could be more rushed.

I highly doubt the market will respond in the same numbers as they did for the OG PS4.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

That's not what the OP said. Taking advantage of extra power and making PS4K the baseline for future software are not one in the same.

I highly doubt a game made to take advantage of the 2x GPU power would be up-ported, for the want of a better word, from the PS4 version.

It is more likely that they are being made for the PS4K and will be down-ported with "significant" differences.

 

[omonimo]

If you look at say First light, it ran at 45 FPS at 1080 and looked beautiful, you could run it as it was or cap it at 30 FPS in the menu.

Now a Ps4K would run that game at 60 FPS. Is that a bad thing ? And you cant say Ps4 got a down port as Sucker punch did a damn fine job on that game, it still looks unbelievable today.

Of course. Because ps4 was the lead platform. The only way to ensure a solid ps4 port it's develop with ps4 hardware in mind. But if you start to think immediately with a ps4k then you scaled down for ps4, well, there is a big risk to obtain a more raw graphic with more raw performance in the weaker platform. Artistically and graphically games are optmized with the ps4 in mind until now.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

It's possible that there will be a PS4 slim with 4K video playback but also a PS4K 2x GPU/CPU power.



Doesn't Xenoblade chronicles run better on n3DS?

You can't even play it on OG 3DS. It's a n3DS exclusive. The only n3DS exclusive.

 

[Corto]

I highly doubt a game made to take advantage of the 2x GPU power would be up-ported, for the want of a better word, from the PS4 version.

It is more likely that they are being made for the PS4K and will be down-ported with "significant" differences.

That isn't a port. It's the same game with different graphical settings.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

That isn't a port. It's the same game with different graphical settings.

Yes I know, hence why I said for the want of a better word. The game is going to be made for all the graphical bells, whistles, better texture detail, better geometry at 1080p30~60 which is then going to be "downscaled" to fit PS4 power which will get a sub 1080p sub 60 or even 30fps version.

 

[omonimo]

That isn't a port. It's the same game with different graphical settings.

Well it's not exactly accurate. It all depends how ps4.5 will work to achieve better result. Reading the OP it seems to obtain the best, you have to develop with in mind ps4k. Not sound promising for the ps4 version. They need of different development cycle for the 2 sku.
If developers will start prioritizing ps4k version, ps4 port will not shine for surely.

 

[gus-gus]

Yes I know, hence why I said for the want of a better word. The game is going to be made for all the graphical bells, whistles, better texture detail, better geometry at 1080p30~60 which is then going to be "downscaled" to fit PS4 power which will get a sub 1080p sub 60 or even 30fps version.

I don't understand, what's the issue? Won't both systems play the game?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Yes I know, hence why I said for the want of a better word. The game is going to be made for all the graphical bells, whistles, better texture detail, better geometry at 1080p30~60 which is then going to be "downscaled" to fit PS4 power which will get a sub 1080p sub 60 or even 30fps version.

You're talking to as if 1080p 60fps is some kind of norm you've come to expect on PS4. It's the exception, not the rule.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

I don't understand, what's the issue? Won't both systems play the game?

The issue is that now there are split hardware specs less time is going to be spent on the PS4 version so they can show off what they can do with PS4K.

I don't understand why you don't understand...

You're talking to as if 1080p 60fps is some kind of norm you've come to expect on PS4. It's the exception, not the rule.

I never said it was but the PS4 struggles with 1080p30fps RIGHT NOW. If the PS4K baseline is 1080p30~60fps whats going to happen to PS4?

 

[Equanimity]

I highly doubt a game made to take advantage of the 2x GPU power would be up-ported, for the want of a better word, from the PS4 version.

It is more likely that they are being made for the PS4K and will be down-ported with "significant" differences.

There are a lot of assumptions thrown around without any explanation. Games are already made with the lowest common denominator in mind. Creating the next God of War across two systems that will most definetly share development tools won't gimp one version over the other.

It is more likely that GOW is being made to take full advantage of the OG PS4 and than up-ported with graphical differences.

 

[geordiemp]

Of course. Because ps4 was the lead platform. The only way to ensure a solid ps4 port it's develop with ps4 hardware in mind. But if you start to think immediately with a ps4k then you scaled down for ps4, well, there is a big risk to obtain a more raw graphic with more raw performance in the weaker platform. Artistically and graphically games are optmized with the ps4 in mind until now.

But in a world where sony does not make sure its top dog, fewer games from third parties will be designed with Ps4 on their lips.

If Xb2 is 4 TF in early 2017..... and say 50 % of the ps4 owners migrate back to MS (I was a 360 player last gen)...I would consider it ...Its NOT out of the question.

Then Sony will loose, many console gamers want a good 1080p60 experience and will move to get it, but dont want to go the PC route is my read on things.

At least with Ps4k sony would more likely keep the players who might move next year. If your an OG Ps4 owner, thats a good thing.

Us OG Ps4 owners need to think that power creep will happen with 14 nm technology, whether its Sony with Ps4K or Xb2 or even NX.

It will happen anyway. 2017 will eb the year of 14 nm technology for gaming whether its Sony or not does not matter, its still happening. I for one want Sony to be in there competing.

 

[gus-gus]

The issue is that now there are split hardware specs less time is going to be spent on the PS4 version so they can show off what they can do with PS4K.

I don't understand why you don't understand...

I understand plenty, I wanted you to respond. I wanted you to type out more assumptions so you can read it to yourself.

 

[cyberheater]

That is the headache Sony have to tackle head-on. That is why I say this is the worse type of leak.

I see this as more a reset of the gen because a proper jump in tech for 5 years is finally happening and Sony/MS feel they must get in early. I do strongly feel they should start talking directly to their customers, though.

Being upfront and straight will go a long way.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[omonimo]

But in a world where sony does not make sure its top dog, fewer games from third parties will be designed with Ps4 on their lips.

If Xb2 is 4 TF in early 2017..... and say 50 % of the ps4 owners migrate back to MS (I was a 360 player last gen)...I would consider it ...Its NOT out of the question.

Then Sony will loose, many console gamers want a good 1080p60 experience and will move to get it, but dont want to go the PC route is my read on things.

At least with Ps4k sony would more likely keep the players who might move next year. If your an OG Ps4 owner, thats a good thing.

Us OG Ps4 owners need to think that power creep will happen with 14 nm technology, whether its Sony with Ps4K or Xb2 or even NX. It will happen anyway.

The problem is: we are living in this scenario now? No. When it will happens, it will be legitimate. For now sony can live with a normal ps4. Start to push their userbase for the attractive of the smarthphone business model in the console market, it's scaring from the customers perspective.

 

[DavidDesu]

The issue is that now there are split hardware specs less time is going to be spent on the PS4 version so they can show off what they can do with PS4K.

I don't understand why you don't understand...

I really think this will amount to a mirroring of the PC gaming scene, only with two fixed platforms to aim for rather than a million. By far most games are made using third party engines like Unreal 4 which allow very easy scaling. Many PS4 games already mimic PC games with the devs clearly choosing the settings from PC and directly implanting that into the PS4 version of the game.

PS4K will be the same, but with the extra power allowing those settings to be upped. The only games truly targeted and designed around PS4 rather than made via middleware are more or less just the first party games.... And I imagine Sony's own first party studios will take a lot of care to ensure both PS4 and PS4K versions run well.

Might there be one or two less than ideally optimised games, sure, but that's more likely to be inevitable for whatever game that is, just like Just Cause 3 is below par with no competing PS4K in existence yet.

Everyone needs to just calm down when we know so little yet.

 

[cyberheater]

It's as if they're all ignoring the fact that most PS4 multiplats this generation are built on PC and 'stripped down' to run on PS4 and XB1 already. All PS4K does is add another SKU, which is basically the same console except with a bit of extra juice. It's in no way comparable to PS3/PS4 cross gen development when both systems had architectures and power levels that are worlds apart. I feel you're misjudging both how much power this thing will have relative to OG PS4 and how hard it will be to cross develop for both. Again, they're the same console.

It would have to be a significant leap in power of there wouldn't be any point in releasing it.

The OP has stated that 2 x GPU. That's a big bump.

It's impossible for this thing to be released and not have a negative impact on current PS4 owners.

 

[Tntnico]

I got a PS4 because I knew I would be able to play every game as the developer intended without having to spend ages pissing about with graphics settings trying to get a horribly optimised game running semi decently.

But that's not the case, if you really want that go PC. PS4 and Xbox versions of games are version on which developers try to get "optimised game running semi decently". So yeah PS4K will neable to run higher fidelity games regarding what developers intended. Is it a big deal ?

Please Sony, give us that new version. I want premium VR experience on console without waiting 2019