Maybe some people like arguing over stupid stuff only to see what kind of nonsense reply might be there. Also kinda kills time
Oh and as to the ff thing, Square doesn't see as close to Sony as they have in the past.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Maybe some people like arguing over stupid stuff only to see what kind of nonsense reply might be there. Also kinda kills time
Oh and as to the ff thing, Square doesn't see as close to Sony as they have in the past.
Glorified G
Member
I agree and believe Sony will do so. But also from a dev standpoint it seems this new sku will not be as resource heavy for developers as some people think
Rrom a verified developer:
They'd better keep the OG version at least at 30FPS locked then, because I will be royally pissed if the 4K runs at a consistent frame rate and OG doesn't.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
They are pretty close with the JRPG initiative they have going. NieR, FFVII Remake, World Of Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, Dragon's Quest...they are clearly working together to revitalize the Japanese market.
Also I don't believe you are here just to shoot the shit. You are truly threatened by the idea of an improved PS4.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I'm just wonder if ps4k will downsample, downscale, or allow custom resolutions for non 4k tv users. That might sway me towards a purchase since I'm sticking with my hd crt.
If I really am I would just go upgrade my pc some more and just play my games on it
I am keeping an open mind slightly and more worried about the potential negatives this kind of move would have to the console space which some of you are quick to write off as nothing would happen and would do very well.
Threatened though? HAH! NOT EVEN.
GHG
Member
We've gone full circle... It's back to denial.
It's ok to have concerns but your concerns are based on information that doesn't exist, not even as a rumour. At this moment in time it is only logical to discuss what has been rumoured. Your comment about splitting the user base goes against the information that has been posted in the OP. At that point you are arguing against something that 100% doesn't exist, not even as a rumour. It's falling into the realms of fabrication in order to support your counterview.
For the purpose of discussing this rumour in the hypothetical manner that we have over the course of 200 pages then there has to be some degree of flex in terms of what constitutes to being a "fact" or not. This tends to be true for any rumours where the source has been well verified. As such, we have to take it on merit and assume what is in the OP is true or at the very least least very close to the truth. If we don't do this then there can be no discussion.
If you think that anything in the OP is not true and you have a good source to call on then please let us know.
MastaKilla
Member
As a consumer, I feel incredibly regretful now for purchasing a ps4. If I knew they were gonna go this route with their consoles, I would not have bought a ps4. Would make so much more sense to spend the money on a high end PC instead. This sucks. I might just try to sell my ps4 and games. Been a loyal PlayStation gamer for about 20 years now, but i don't think I'm going to be able to afford it anymore.
Phreakuency
Banned
Thread now at over a million views.
People are obviously very interested one way or another.
I'd bet this would be a huge success sales wise.
I'd jump in day 1 for sure.
People are obviously very interested one way or another.
I'd bet this would be a huge success sales wise.
I'd jump in day 1 for sure.
...so you wan't to buy a high-end pc with 300-400 bucks? that's how much a high-end gpu will cost you...next to that you'll need a cpu which won't bottleneck the cpu...that will cost you 300 up to a 1000 bucks...then a motherboard to support said cpu...another 100-300 bucks....you see where I'm going with this...
If you like the games you have on the system, don't sell them. As an existing owner I'd hate to sell my PS4 and the games I have for it, I enjoy playing them. Don't buy the 4K if it's unappealing to you - save that money for other things you want instead, switch to another platform as your primary area of gaming if you deem that a better value. But again, if you enjoy the games you have on your PS4 right now, it would be a waste to pawn them off.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
This belief that PS4 will not be supported is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. They are not going to stop supporting an install base of 60 million + ( PS4 and Xbox One ) midcycle just because Sony is bringing a slightly upgraded PS4. Even if Sony wants to, the third parties will not. By the time third parties start prioritizing PS4K ( i.e determine game scope keeping PS4K in mind ) it will be atleast two to three years into the life of PS4K in which case it will mean PS4 is a good 5 - 6 years into its life which is all anyone should expect to have a platform be supported.
Are people really serious with these " oh no PS4 will be abandoned" arguments?
Are people really serious with these " oh no PS4 will be abandoned" arguments?
wonderful103
Member
Pc gamers who aren't looking to burn an excess of money don't buy 1000 dollar cpus or gpus.
I feel as though because this is a ps4 focuse thread, people are a little bit excited to pass off the usual misconceptions. Yes the initial spend on a gaming rig is higher, but it pays dividends. Modularity is advantage, not a disadvantage.
The hand-me-down 2600k and gtx 680 from 2012 I have in one of my older gaming rigs (of which I reused ram, case, HD and windows licenses) is still producing better results than these consoles. None of them cost 1000 dollars. And for us enthusiasts who purchase lots of games, the extra initial spend pays for itself very quickly.
wapplew
Member
No, not all people use "PS4 will be abandoned" argument.
I using the "PS4 will never be abandoned, ever" argument.
Thank you, that makes me more confident and positive about the situation, really, its appreciated.
Brad Grenz
Member
Who knows? Maybe the TSRs don't let you touch the additional GPU power unless you're outputting at 4K. All this durm and strang over 1080p60 versions of games is a bit hasty, to say the least. I actually think pricing as high as possible is in the best interest of making sure people realize this is a totally optional, premium thing. If it's $500 that's more than anyone paid for their PS4 ever. That's much more than a standard PS4, and if it literally has no benefits for anyone without a 4K display they will sidestep pretty much every complaint.
What i was basing that off of, was the OP itself, and the statement that developers would be specifically targeting PS4K with launch titles. And my concern has been the basic console concerns about the destruction of the closed console platform, but more specifically, my own viewpoint that Sony still needs to come out strong about the OG PS4 being the minimum development platform and there will be no "downports" of the PS4 and PS3 cross generational variety, where the lesser platform is sacrificed for the higher powered one.
If they can assure us that the PS4 is still the minimum standard, than nothing changes from how things are right now and the PS4K is a premium tier option and something i would be much more comfortable with existing.
Someone just linked me to Matt's post on the matter, which helps somewhat, but i was not privy to that post when making my initial argument because this thread is long as hell.
It's always weird how people obsess on this upgrade-culture. Do you like your PS4 as is? If so, good. If they make a better PS4, your current one won't get any worse. If you feel it is, then it means your value in the PS4 wasn't just on the system itself, but it being he "top console".
Even funnier are the 'I'm going to PC so I don't feel alienated that someone will have a more powerful box than me!' comments, when you're far more likely to be in a situation that someone has a rig that is on a different planet to yours.
GHG
Member
The first thing you have to accept with PC gaming is that someone somewhere always has a more powerful rig than yours no matter how much time money and effort you might have put into it.
I was on another forum a couple of weeks ago where I said I had a "decent" PC (5820k @4.4ghz , 2xgtx980s, 16gb ram) and got my head bitten off because that's apparently a "high end" machine and that I was taking the piss.
I kind of felt bad telling them that if they think my machine is high end then they are seriously out of the loop.
I don't even think there would be a 'controversy' if Sony intended for this gen to last as long as the last one. Then putting out an upgraded PS4.5 in this manner would make perfect sense, and we would not have the clear sacrifices to 7th gen games in their later years we had.
Even though i feel more relieved, it still feels like its too early to introduce something like this, and then if they really are intended for a 6 year gen, that makes the jump to PS5 less impressive and gives PS4.5 only about 3 years on the market for relevance anyway.
With this move they are doing, my solution is that they should extend the generation of "PS4" for a few more years than they would have otherwise, if they have a premium unit for people who care about better performance and aren't as under pressure to put out a more powerful unit. Say 2021 or so, if they launch it next year.
Even though i feel more relieved, it still feels like its too early to introduce something like this, and then if they really are intended for a 6 year gen, that makes the jump to PS5 less impressive and gives PS4.5 only about 3 years on the market for relevance anyway.
With this move they are doing, my solution is that they should extend the generation of "PS4" for a few more years than they would have otherwise, if they have a premium unit for people who care about better performance and aren't as under pressure to put out a more powerful unit. Say 2021 or so, if they launch it next year.
OuterLimits
Member
Does anyone know the stats on how many people actually have 4K TVs? Got to still be a very small minority. Although it should grow considerably over the next few years.
I also wouldn't completely dismiss the PC argument entirely although I imagine not many switch.
Console gaming used to be the very convenient and usually cheaper way to enjoy gaming. Now if you were to buy the PS4 and PS4.5, you are looking at $800-$900 during the gen. Add $250 or so for the privilege to enjoy online gaming and your now over $1000.
From a financial standpoint, console gaming wouldn't really be cheaper. PC games are generally cheaper and you can enjoy mods and often superior performance/presentation. The only major advantage I see with consoles now is the exclusive games. However, this gen seems to have less console exclusives. Hell, less big budget games also.
So I can understand why some would use this as a reason to jump into PC gaming.
Of course you could just wait a few years into a generation and but the upgraded console to save money. However, that would obviously screw Sony if many started doing that. Their new goal of course is to get people to pay full price on both.
For me, the amount of great strategy games on PC will likely be enough to go back to PC gaming.
I also wouldn't completely dismiss the PC argument entirely although I imagine not many switch.
Console gaming used to be the very convenient and usually cheaper way to enjoy gaming. Now if you were to buy the PS4 and PS4.5, you are looking at $800-$900 during the gen. Add $250 or so for the privilege to enjoy online gaming and your now over $1000.
From a financial standpoint, console gaming wouldn't really be cheaper. PC games are generally cheaper and you can enjoy mods and often superior performance/presentation. The only major advantage I see with consoles now is the exclusive games. However, this gen seems to have less console exclusives. Hell, less big budget games also.
So I can understand why some would use this as a reason to jump into PC gaming.
Of course you could just wait a few years into a generation and but the upgraded console to save money. However, that would obviously screw Sony if many started doing that. Their new goal of course is to get people to pay full price on both.
For me, the amount of great strategy games on PC will likely be enough to go back to PC gaming.
LowEndTorque
Member
This is uncharted territory in the console market and despite these fun predictions and speculation we really have no idea how the market is going to react. It's a risky move that could either pay off or backfire. No idea why Sony is willing to take that risk when they already have a runaway smash success with the PS4. Unless the main worry is getting left behind by NX and XB 1.5.
jeff_rigby
Banned
All versions of the XB1 and PS4 will do this. It's part of the requirement for Playready ND and will be used for the UHD Blu-ray digital bridge. The same accelerators used for Codecs can be used for vision processing.
Pretty much.
There's really only a few exclusives and the ones there are I don't play often or have much interest in.
Had gotten it for a more even playing field in shooters and Desti.. ugh I regret that last one..
Also some games that just don't make it to PC but there's more and more moving to PC these days.
Sadly I would be willing to sell mine off and buy a better GPU for my system with the money but there's the jrpgs still to come out as well as there's just more people playing shooters on the consoles.
http://bf4stats.com/
Also that BF4 weblauncher is a load of crap to deal with. -_-
StrongBlackVine
Banned
You want a console that was releasdd in 2013 to the baseline until 2021? That isn't happening.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Brad, all video processing is in the PS4 Southbridge DRM TEE not the APU so upgrading the GPU has no impact. Codecs including HEVC are via software using accelerators (Xtensa processors on the ARM AXI bus) that are also required to be in Southbridge and can also be used as Vision processors (OpenVX) or to up-scale and down-scale video.
AMD's UVD are Xtensa processors as is True Audio. AMD said they use the same Hardware the XB1 uses to support HEVC. AMD has had a Trustzone processor on an ARM bus in ALL AMD APUs with Xtensa processors since 2010. Versions of the UVD have been increasing in power and with Kaveri (4.2) and Carizzo can support HEVC without using the GPU. Carizzo (UVD 6) with a duty cycle allowing encode and decode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder said:
The Launch XB1 has been confirmed as UHD Blu-ray ready as far as the hardware is concerned. I believe this is true for the launch PS4 also. I believe the PS4K rumors are confused as a firmware update in October can give 4K media ability to all PS4s.
When Sony chose to use GDDR5 they had to move the ARM IP out of the APU to Southbridge with it's own DDR3. There is no ARM memory controller for GDDR5 from Cadence which is AMD's supplier for ARM IP and the XB1 is Cadense and AMD IP. The XB1 APU had to use DDR3 as the mandated standby power mode can not be met with GDDR5.
From 2013 the Southbridge has been known to be the Media TEE.
How can so many insiders and journalists be confused???
OP sure doesn't sound like a firmware update.
Aside all this more power talk I'd really be happy if the PS4K also allowed the binaural stereo signal to be calculated with the additional power instead of having it only for PSVR through the breakout box.
That way people could experience the superiority of object-based audio (like some of us did in the 90s) and throw away their Mixamps and speaker room HRTFs.
Give us the DEFAULT option of binaural audio through the PS4k alone. If games do not use Middleware or no own renderer to make use of geometry data then have an speaker room HRTF mode to default back to.
Sony showed off a multispeaker room. They can create a virtual speaker room to default to that blows 5.1 solutions of Creative/Dolby etc. out of the water by much finer granularity.
That way people could experience the superiority of object-based audio (like some of us did in the 90s) and throw away their Mixamps and speaker room HRTFs.
Give us the DEFAULT option of binaural audio through the PS4k alone. If games do not use Middleware or no own renderer to make use of geometry data then have an speaker room HRTF mode to default back to.
Sony showed off a multispeaker room. They can create a virtual speaker room to default to that blows 5.1 solutions of Creative/Dolby etc. out of the water by much finer granularity.
jeff_rigby
Banned
They don't do their homework. You will find many complaining about the quality of journalism particularly in the tech fields. It doesn't help that AMD want's everyone to think they are responsible for all the hardware designs in their APUs so they won't tout their use of Cadence IP. You find one line here and there and Google search to fill in the blanks.
Hardware for Media Hub features in both the XB1 and PS4 "kinda confirmed"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder said:
But OP specifically talks about a new console with twice the GPU power and and mentions a price even.
jimbobsmells
Member
You can logically separate the two issues. Current consoles could well be UHD capable, but not marketed and enabled as such. A new console now (mid through a 'traditional' gen) would need a major selling point in addition to just being more powerful, which is why it's being pushed as a 4K device.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Parts of it may not be confused, there may be a more powerful PS4.5 coming but the 4K part is coming to all PS4s and is all supported by Southbriidge APIs with full screen video of any resolution having the APU turned off to support MEDIA POWER MODES (20 watt) instead of 120 watts to play a video. This is a requirement for PCs and a reason we only see small AMD APUs until Kaveri which has a UVD 4.2 which does not need the GPU on to process video for display, same for Carizzo with UVD 6. Both still have memory bandwidth issues so they can't be larger until HBM which can support network standby and Media at the same time larger GPUs for games.
Games that fully use the Southbridge accelerators can off-load GPU cycles for Vision processing (OpenVX) and post processing video (Anti-Aliasing and up-scaling). This is another confusion, the 4K up-scaling is via southbridge accelerators. Since DRM media has to be totally processed in the Southbridge TEE, up-scaling and Down-scaling included, the same hardware used for up-scaling games is in Southbridge also.
DSP accelerators (Xtensa) can be 20X more efficient at some tasks than CPUs and 5X more efficient at some tasks than GPUs. HSA's HSAIL is about using the best CPU for the job be it CPU, GPU, DSP or FPGA on the same memory bus or Via IOMMU a PCIe bus. The Southbridge chip is connected to the APU via a PCIe with a custom IOMMU that AMD and Sony named.
GHG
Member
He's not sharing anymore because it will become too obvious who his source is.
We just have to wait now.
According to some research, over 30M 4K TVs sold in 2015, with much higher sales expected in following years.
Japan will also host Olympics in 2020 and they promised comprehensive 4K coverage, so Sony want's to be fully ready for that.
You sure about that? I cant find any info on that. I always thought UHD BluRay's used a different laser?
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
No new leaks.
GlamFM
Banned
FrozenCell
Member
I thought everyone on GAF was tech literate...
I thought I was once, but I just can't keep up with all the acronyms and brand names and complete lack of clarification for the layman. I don't even know how much of Rigby's posts can still be called standard english.
I guess I am just a layman after all.
jeff_rigby
Banned
No same laser but needs a firmware update.
The 2013 Microsoft employee quote supports this:The Xbox One supports both 3D and 4K Blu-ray discs at present. Theres no hardware restriction at all, said Microsofts Yusuf Mehdi at the time to Forbes.
Sony employees (3 different people) say in 2013: 1) The PS4 can support 4K media, 2) The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port, 3) The PS4 hardware is feature proved to support many new coming features.
You should disabuse yourself of that notion.
Going into the DDOS threads a while back was like having teeth pulled out.