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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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You're literally twisting the scene in the movie in order to justify your viewpoint.

Superman is seen smiling, happy, warm and gentle as he recovers the girl and gives her back to the arms of his mother. As the crowd starts to worship him, he starts to become more uncomfortable, for OBVIOUS reasons. He is not comfortable with people worshiping him, as they clearly are. This one scene alone encapsulates a good portion of his character's arc. A man who wants to do good and likes doing good but is distraught and unsure at how his actions are making others view him.

I mean, the problem is you keep twisting what the movie actually presents on screen in order to back up your view of the characterization

It's absolutely fair to criticize a character arc, obviously everyone has their definition of what is good in order to criticize what they deem bad, but when there seems to be willful or perhaps negligent misrepresentation of that character in order to back up said criticism, it becomes hard to agree that it's a fair criticism, and that is further muddied by the fact that there is without a doubt a decent chunk of people who absolutely do project onto this character values that they feel he should have due to their like of one particular representation over another. I mean, again even in this post you say Superman never connects with the people he is saving, when there is literally a scene showing him in that situation.

Criticize the character arc all you want, criticize the plotting and construction as well ( I do too, it's a mess), but in the end I suppose you did not see the movie I did when it comes to how Superman was portrayed. I know others recognized what I did, and others see it as you did as well, which is interesting, but yeah....

No Synder did not show him smiling as he gives her back to her mother. You literally see the smile turn into a deadpan each step he takes closer to the crowd before he puts her on the ground in her mother's arms and the crowd raises their arms to touch him. Much like Diana's smile in the Doomsday battle Superman's smile looks like it's about a thrill of the exertion, a self-satisfied smirk at his own prowess. Does he go to Juarez immediately to help after seeing the news? No he goes after "I can't believe they're going to let that poor girl die". He goes because he's 'better' than those people.

That's a simple textual reading of what's on the screen. Of course Synder could have shown Superman smiling at the girl in is arms. Or instead of going for the cool shot of Superman rising from the sea of arms instead he could have shown Superman directly smiling at the mother and making a direct connection. But at this point it's hard to tell what's intentional and what's sloppy film making. And at the end of the day it's you not Veelk, who is the one twisting the scene to match your characterization of Superman.
 
I've seen the film twice, you're completely wrong. Unfortunately there is no blu-ray available to gif, so by all means, please go see it again.
 
I've seen the film twice, you're completely wrong. Unfortunately there is no blu-ray available to gif, so by all means, please go see it again.

Completely wrong? You saw superman smiling to the girl or connecting directly with the mother? Uh huh, got any alts to corroborate that with you? I'm not going to see this film again in theaters, once was already a waste of money.
 
So we're at the point that you have to be an alt account to agree that Superman was smiling as he carried the little girl to her mother.
 
Completely wrong? You saw superman smiling to the girl or connecting directly with the mother? Uh huh, got any alts to corroborate that with you? I'm not going to see this film again in theaters, once was already a waste of money.

I'm Dead's alt and I don't remember superman ever smiling in the movie. maybe he did, maybe he didn't. it's hard to remember when he's very somber and confused during the entire film. that might be painting my thoughts on that rescue sequence.
 
Lets assume that Dead isn't misreading the scene. Personally, I don't remember superman smiling at all, but that might be because the camera wasn't really focused on him. It was a wide panning shot that got his walking into the crowd of people, before zooming in on people touching him. But lets say he was smiling and 'trying' to connect with people. That scene ended with people awkwardly touching him (seriously, he could just go like "uh...personal space, people" or something) and him looking uncomfortable and just flying away I guess. So we can say the ending was superman being othered, even if he was being positively othered.

Lets look at examples of how he reacts from other movies. Just two disclaimers first:

First, I'm not saying these interactions are inherently better or that they are from better superman movies, because I don't really like them (the movies) myself. Also, not all of these mannerisms would work in a modern interpretation since they'd come off as a bit cheesy. I am just trying to prove a point that Superman could TRY to be more personal, because the other incarnations pull it off pretty easily. Second, I'm not saying that the new BvS superman should be personal no matter what in all contexts, but his refusal to be personal is simply at conflict with his desire to not be viewed as someone that's seperate from humanity. If Snyder's Superman wants to show the world that he's a normal guy, then he ought to act like a normal guy, not this wierdo that can't even look the people he's saving in the eye.

https://youtu.be/394jYH82s2o?t=171

Okay, here's Superman's premiere (iirc) as Superman. Despite Lois being in danger, he still finds a moment to excuse himself from having a conversation from a guy who comments on his clothing. Then, when he catches Lois, he verbally reassures her. Then, when he lands the helicopter, he notifies other men to help the man inside the helicopter, then jokingly mentions to lois that he hopes that this incident hasn't put her off flying in helicopters. This may seem like throwaway dialogue, but it's harmonious with the general tone of the movie. He's telling her that even though this was dangerous, she shouldn't let her fears prevent her from trying potentially dangerous things ever again. And when asked who he is, his response is "A friend", a term that immediately has warm, familiar connotations. By using the term friend, rather than something equally as innocuous like "Just someone who likes to help out" (which might place him as a savior, someone above) he's immediately putting himself in a position of equality with Lois. You might argue that I'm looking too much into what is generic superhero dialogue, but whether this much thought was put into it, it resonnates warmth and personality from Superman himself. Despite people looking all around him in awe, he's just so utterly casual about it. A bit formal in his mannerisms, sure, but not in a cold or distant way.

https://youtu.be/70OgnOXFolI?t=61

This scene is an interesting one for two reasons. It shows Superman's limits and it shows how him angry, or atleast tense. Superman here can't actually save everyone by himself. He can tell the doctors what is wrong with Jimmy, but he can't heal him. Similarly, he can make an impossible situation possible, but he wouldn't be able to put out the whole fire himself. Well, obstensively. Superman gets his powers as he needed them in these movies, and if the plot actually needed him to, yeah, he'd do everything himself, which he ends up doing. But what this scene interesting is that he doesn't just jump to "I'll do it myself". He involves the firefighting team as much as possible, until it's clear that they cannot do it and he has to perform a miracle to save them. They still have to get up their asses and work hard to save people with superman. And this is communicated by Superman's urgent acting. Most times, he's got the situation in the bag, and happily makes polite chit chat with the people around him even when everyone else panics (usually to soothe them, not just be a smartass). Here, he's urging the fire fighters on what is going on and what they need to do and what the consequences will be if they don't. There is a sense of danger, and Superman needs them for once (even if he's being a bit of a liar here). The point being made here is that while Superman can do a lot of things by himself, he also participates in society. He doesn't tell the fire fighters they're obsolete, he gets them involved, and he means it when he says it.


I could go on with many examples, because between the Reeves movies, Routh Movie, The animated Series (both superman and Justice League), probably the Young Justice one if I looked, and god knows the amount of comics, they all have superman actually interacting with the people he saves.

Now, I know despite my disclaimer, people are going to think that I'm pointing at these movies and saying "That's how it should be done!" So let me try to clearly say again: I'm not saying that. In fact, I don't even really like these movies. Not even Superman 1. I feel bored watching them because despite the STELLAR acting by Reeves, there is never any believable tension when it's Superman vs Mundane Property, whehter that's a falling helicoptor or a carbine harvestor. Superman's not going to lose to those things, and I think the best movie is Superman 2, where he fights against Zod because he has an actual enemy that has atleast a sort of chance of beating him. So if you think I'm putting these films on a pedestal, believe me, you couldn't be more wrong, and I'm aware that Superman's exact personality can't be 100% replicated from there to now without some weirdness. Superman Returns attempted that, and...well, you saw how that turned out. I especially don't like that the Superman 3 scene ends with him solving the problem himself after the set up that he needs the rest of the firemen do contribute, especially when the resolution is that bullshit. And to be triply clear, I am NOT calling for a recreation of any of these scenes, because you'll have to revise it to meet modern standards. Like I said, they're very cheesy, and it would just come off as awkward at best, fake at worst, the way Reeves plays him here.

But what I'm getting out of all this is that people seem to think that if BvS's Superman talks to people, that is somehow a concept that can't be done because it's too complex or unrealistic, or that there's no way to do it without Superman talking down to people, or that it simply shouldn't be done. As much as I dislike these movies, when I compare them to Superman in BvS, I think I think the Reeves movies acts less wierd than the Snyder superman does. While the chipper, polite attitude might be unusual, even off putting, now, a complete refusal to speak with the people he saves make the interpretation that he's this weird alien god unavoidable. It can be SO easily avoidable, and can be entertaining or interesting. There are so many ways to incorporate humanity in Superman's life, and if you're smart about it, you can make some pretty interesting scenes that have Superman actively right this incorrect narrative that he's an alien force that society assumes he is. He can show them they're wrong. He can go and talk to them and help them do their jobs while doing his and show that he's a part of their world. Which doesn't mean that the whole "alien god" narrative will die, of course, because we've all seen at some point how people will bend their minds around simple facts if it's inconvenient to their world view. So I'm not trying to stop Snyder's story of dealing with the godliness of Superman. I mean, even Reeve's Superman had been hero worshipped, despite his down to earth and friendly nature. But for the love of god, Superman should fucking try, if he doesn't like being worshipped. If he doesn't like being treated as separate from humanity, he sure as hell doesn't do anything to discourage that by being as distant as he is. So just discourage it. Talk to people. Be friendly. Show them you're just a guy. Be a social human being, christ.

And if nothing else, it'd help Superman from being such a bland fish throughout the movie, because he's such a bore when he's not punching shit. Cavill can be charming, he was in Man from Uncle, so I'm guessing he's specifically told here to be as emotionless and robotic as possible when he's not RAGING over Luthor's shenanigans. And if that's all your character can do is punch shit and mope around, is he a really good character then?
 
Do we know if Affleck and Cavill did their own stunts? It's the only way to explain that Knightmare and its terrible choreography editing. I loved loved the concept, and I get they were going for a one-take, but once it was in motion, the only thing going through my mind was
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Not putting this in that tier of movie, but overall I was really shocked with how bad the action was in the first half, especially for a Snyder film. The second half is a lot better, mostly cause it's so stylized, but the lame misuse of Wonder Woman, especially with her theme playing over everything, really taints what was supposed to be the payoff for an OK flick.
 
With all the internet outrage I expected to see an Elektra trainwreck fortunately it was just a stupid and pretty movie.
Yes, I wish Superman was in a lighter mood, seriously, being pouty and angry is Bruce's role.
Batfleck was exceptional, he's the definitive Batman for me and I'm glad the movie seemed to focus much more on him than on Supes.
Wonder Woman was fine, looked powerful, great casting.
I quite appreciated crazy Lex, it was no Michael Rosenbaum but he kind of lightened the mood with his mannerisms and that was quite welcome in this movie.
I loved the action, Snyder sure knows what works.

The plot didn't make a lot of sense, I didn't feel Bat's hatred for Superman was justified, his logic is akin to come from the mind of a Trump supporter. Lois is conveniently placed for her to be in trouble or close to the macguffin. Batman is vaporizing fools left and right. Lex's motivations are father issues, I guess? What the fuck is Siri doing in the Kryptonian ship? And why is it so easy to hack? Why does it resurrect dead people? Why the fuck toes he mix his blood with Zod? Why does the monster looks and acts like a videogame boss?
How in hell does Clark get coerced to kill Bruce? Couldn't he just rescue Martha himself? He's fucking Superman. And now that I think of it, why didn't he save Jimmy? Do you literally have to suck his dick to get saved? Even Frank Miller didn't get there. And while I'm there, was the name of their respective mothers the best reason to be friends they could come up with?
Why is Diana leaving? Didn't she just investigate Lexcorp? Didn't she learn bad shit was gonna happen? I guess she had to board a TURKISH AIRLINES plane because of its TOP CLASS COMFORT. Why do they bother with a kryptonite spear when an Amazonian goddess can already cut the monster's arm with one slash? It's not a fucking videogame, we don't have to wait for the fucking QTE prompt.
The JL presentation? More like Justice Lame amirite? Flash is Spidey (actually that was cool), Cyborg is a transformer created by black Frankenstein, Aquaman doesn't like underwater paparazzi.

With all the criticism of the plot, I still quite enjoyed the film and look forward to the rest of the DCCU. I'm not as butthurt as the rest of the nerds about the liberties Snyder took with the characters. Just hire a writer that can create coherent stories for the sequels and I believe it will be fine.
 
Do we know if Affleck and Cavill did their own stunts? It's the only way to explain that Knightmare and its terrible choreography editing. I get they were going for a one-take, but once it was in motion, the only thing going through my mind was

Not putting this in that tier of movie, but overall I was really shocked with how bad the action was in the first half, especially for a Snyder film. The second half is a lot better, mostly cause it's so stylized, but the lame misuse of Wonder Woman, especially with her theme playing over everything, really taints what was supposed to be the payoff for an OK flick.

Batman's inconsistent choreography is something I found distracting.

His first full fight scene is the Knightmare sequence. Technically, the scene with the sex slaves, but that was mostly hidden and we mostly saw the end result, as that's meant to build up tension to who Batman is. We first see him fight proper in the knightmare sequence, which has him performing hand take downs while remaining relatively motionless. Like, he moves around, but bit by bit, before taking down, and he performs strikes and grapples from that one area, occasionally firing a gun.

Then the next action sequence is a chase scene with the batmobile which you might fairly say that it is a different kind of action, but he way he does it is pure brute force, smashing through anything in his way and shooting anything he sees moving down.

Then we have the Batman v Superman fight scene, which is sort of like the knightmare scene, but only focused on one opponent, and it mostly has him pounding on him when he doesn't have his powers without any real martial arts technique, atleast when he has the advantage of strength.

Then we have that fight that is straight up lifted from Arkham Asylum, which is so different from how he usually fights. He uses gadgets and jumps and leaps. It looks pretty good, but I can't give Snyder credit for it when it's all but plagiarized from the games.

And then the Doomsday fight where batman can't do jack except provide support.

I never got sense of a cohesive fighting style from this batman. Which might be more than I can say for Baleman, but still.
 
Batman's scene with Superman was setup in the training montage. It shows him training for some of the key moves and motions he'd employ while taking him down, from the hammering to dragging of the tire. All brute strength training focused on specific acts. A man who planned it all out ahead of time, a plan that has to be meticulous to take down a god.

I thought it was telegraphed that he let loose while saving Martha. Like this is what Batman is truly capable of. I'm probably giving Snyder too much credit, but it seemed pretty well thought out to me.
 
I thought the fight between superman and batman was pretty lame because of the heavy use of cg for big stunts and the fact that superman hardly does a thing. Superman really doesn't have a fighting style and batman in that suit is mostly doing overly dramatic, heavy punches and throws.

The fight between batman and the hostage takers is the best in the movie. There the choreography is clearer and more exciting. Batman has an actual style there and the fight has a good, fast pace. The fight between bat and supes was more slow and heavy.
 
Batman's scene with Superman was setup in the training montage. It shows him training for some of the key moves and motions he'd employ while taking him down, from the hammering to dragging of the tire. All brute strength training focused on specific acts. A man who planned it all out ahead of time, a plan that has to be meticulous to take down a god.

I thought it was telegraphed that he let loose while saving Martha. Like this is what Batman is truly capable of. I'm probably giving Snyder too much credit, but it seemed pretty well thought out to me.

I took it more like he was training to be able to wear that armor and still be able to move, once that armor is removed, he's still got his strength.
 
Saw it again tonight. Picked up on more things since I wasn't quite as fixated trying to find something coherent to hold onto.

Anyway, let's take a little detour down Doomsday lane. Lex names Doomsday "the Devil". Doomsday hangs out on the Luthpire State Building while the military harries him; also we retrieve him from an island. Superman literally died *on* him, and Supes's buddies pass his corpse down from Doomsday (see concept art in the last couple pages compared to taking Jesus off the Cross art). Doomsday, Son of Man, is killed by the spear of destiny.

So the film identifies Doomsday as Satan, King Kong, The Cross at Calvary, and -- weirdest of all -- Jesus Himself. Meanwhile, the weapon that slays him is magical, it glows, and it was retrieved from a Lake so it's not only the Spear of Destiny but Excalibur as well, and that makes Doomsday... whoever got slayed by Excalibur, my Arthurian lore is wanting. Plus, Lex creates him from the corpse of Zod, whom he names Icarus "you flew too close to the Sun". So Doomsday is also a Phoenix, risen from Icarus's charred ashes. And getting stronger in response to force kind of makes him a Hydra. Aaaaaaaaalso, let's take this one step too far and say that he's slain by a magic weapon retrieved from a lake by a redhead, so he's also a Horcrux, lol.

Such an insane jumble of contradictory signifiers all adding up to nothing at all.

(P. s. someone threw up a dumb Reddit thing earlier today that named some references the movie evokes. It named Mask of Zorro and Excalibur, neither of which I'm really familiar with, but anyway those were a poster and on the marquee outside the crime alley theatre at the beginning, respectively.)

(P. p. s. I missed it first time around because I was still reeling from the bungled mess of Jesus imagery but Batman talking to Lex in the jail happened before he talked to Wonder Woman at the funeral. I had originally thought Bats was assembling the team to fight Superfascismman from the Knightmare, but it was in response to Lex's claims of an extraterrestrial threat yet unseen.)
 
I just thought of a new one (probably already thought of)...

So Wonder Woman has been around for 100 years right. And she's been in hiding, but came out of hiding to help when she saw a kryptonian bad guy destroying a city right?

So why didn't she appear last movie, when three kryptonian were destroying way more stuff AND Zod was using two giant machines to terraform earth and kill every single person on the planet?

No, she's been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. But she chooses at times to withdraw from the world of man. After WW1 she bailed out for good, and she only returned very recently, possibly post-MoS. It's not really touched on in the film itself, but I think we can draw conclusions that she returns because Luthor's actions have drawn her back out for personal reasons. So now she's curious about the current state of things, and joined in the battle since she was in the area.
 
A much better way to handle that scene would've been to show Superman stopping the goons easily and telling Batman he's no longer needed, then flying away without realizing that he just left Batman with the Kryptonite.

That would have been a lot better. Instead we get a chase scene with no resolution, but it doesn't matter since Batman steals the kryptonite anyway, off-camera. lol....what a mess.
 
Saw it again tonight. Picked up on more things since I wasn't quite as fixated trying to find something coherent to hold onto.

Anyway, let's take a little detour down Doomsday lane. Lex names Doomsday "the Devil". Doomsday hangs out on the Luthpire State Building while the military harries him; also we retrieve him from an island. Superman literally died *on* him, and Supes's buddies pass his corpse down from Doomsday (see concept art in the last couple pages compared to taking Jesus off the Cross art). Doomsday, Son of Man, is killed by the spear of destiny.

So the film identifies Doomsday as Satan, King Kong, The Cross at Calvary, and -- weirdest of all -- Jesus Himself. Meanwhile, the weapon that slays him is magical, it glows, and it was retrieved from a Lake so it's not only the Spear of Destiny but Excalibur as well, and that makes Doomsday... whoever got slayed by Excalibur, my Arthurian lore is wanting. Plus, Lex creates him from the corpse of Zod, whom he names Icarus "you flew too close to the Sun". So Doomsday is also a Phoenix, risen from Icarus's charred ashes. And getting stronger in response to force kind of makes him a Hydra. Aaaaaaaaalso, let's take this one step too far and say that he's slain by a magic weapon retrieved from a lake by a redhead, so he's also a Horcrux, lol.

Such an insane jumble of contradictory signifiers all adding up to nothing at all.

I absolutely HATE it when a film tries to enhance it's story by referencing other more fundamental ones. I've personally never been in a situation where I thought "Man, that story was really boring to read and it's shallow and stupid as hell on it's own, but when I realized that the main character was jesus all along, wow, that just fixed all my issues"

But yeah, it's way worse when the film doesn't even know how to impliment it's religious references in a way that even make sense.

(P. p. s. I missed it first time around because I was still reeling from the bungled mess of Jesus imagery but Batman talking to Lex in the jail happened before he talked to Wonder Woman at the funeral. I had originally thought Bats was assembling the team to fight Superfascismman from the Knightmare, but it was in response to Lex's claims of an extraterrestrial threat yet unseen.)

Yeah, I caught that the first time, but I still don't understand why. Lex is a raving lunatic at best. Why Batman trusts his insane ramblings that aren't even specific to what is coming is baffling to me.
 
I absolutely HATE it when a film tries to enhance it's story by referencing other more fundamental ones. I've personally never been in a situation where I thought "Man, that story was really boring to read and it's shallow and stupid as hell on it's own, but when I realized that the main character was jesus all along, wow, that just fixed all my issues"

But yeah, it's way worse when the film doesn't even know how to impliment it's religious references in a way that even make sense.



Yeah, I caught that the first time, but I still don't understand why. Lex is a raving lunatic at best. Why Batman trusts his insane ramblings that aren't even specific to what is coming is baffling to me.

To be honest, Lex was the only one to access that archive in the World Engine, so if he says there's shit coming, you best be prepared. Rather be prepared in vein, than getting caught with your pants down while Lex is going "Told you so."
 
To be honest, Lex was the only one to access that archive in the World Engine, so if he says there's shit coming, you best be prepared. Rather be prepared in vein, than getting caught with your pants down while Lex is going "Told you so."
Yeah, but he also the Joker. Lex may have access to something that gives him vital information, but if he's not directly lying just to fuck with you, then he could just be have gone insane and is making wild leaps about what he saw (like he does with superman).

The guy is in no way a reliable source.
 
That would have been a lot better. Instead we get a chase scene with no resolution, but it doesn't matter since Batman steals the kryptonite anyway, off-camera. lol....what a mess.

Exactly, it makes no sense supes would butt in on batman who is clearly chasing after dangerous armed personnel(super sight and hearing), So he can deliver a get out of my uncaring face message?

Synderlism.
 
Yeah, but he also the Joker. Lex may have access to something that gives him vital information, but if he's not directly lying just to fuck with you, then he could just be have gone insane and is making wild leaps about what he saw (like he does with superman).

The guy is in no way a reliable source.

If there's even a 1 percent chance he's talking the truth, we have to take it as an absolute certainty.
 
So she needs to see stuff on TV?

Zod sent a message about his impending invasion worldwide in the last film, days before the destruction. You might have thought most of the world would be watching.

And it's not like she's living in some log cabin, she's someone who flies around stealing flash drives from millionaires.

Why didn't The Avengers help out in Cap 2, Thir 2, Iron Man 3...
 
Completely wrong? You saw superman smiling to the girl or connecting directly with the mother? Uh huh, got any alts to corroborate that with you? I'm not going to see this film again in theaters, once was already a waste of money.

He did had a slight smile in his face when he was returning the girl to her mother (I saw this a second time yesterday) Superman face expresion changes as the crowd started to worship him.
 
Saw the movie this weekend. Such mixed feelings but overall I was quite entertained and left wanting to watch it again, so there's that.

- Much better than Man of Steel, easier to digest, more enjoyable overall
- Did not see SM's death coming ahead of time... but that's because how would you ever expect them to do it this early
- the bombing sequence during the trial was brilliant and one of the highlights of the movie for sure. So brilliantly executed.
- Batman's rescue of Martha was one of the best fight sequence I've ever seen... certainly of Batman. Fuck Batman was a badass in this film... WOW So dark and brutal! I loved watching him just destroy everyone. lol

But man... if WB are saying they are not doing what the Marvel movies are doing, it's because they are doing it in reverse. Instead of starting with individual movies and taking the risk of those lesser characters having the weight to carry entire movies on their own, they instead have a single movie where they are all revealed... and expect that people will find them interesting enough to go watch full films about them? I dunno... this movie feels like what it should have taken them 4 movies to build up to and done differently.
 
So she needs to see stuff on TV?

Zod sent a message about his impending invasion worldwide in the last film, days before the destruction. You might have thought most of the world would be watching.

And it's not like she's living in some log cabin, she's someone who flies around stealing flash drives from millionaires.

I know it's irrelevant now, but it would have been friggin' awesome if Wonder Woman showed up near the end of Man of Steel and just started beating the shit out of the Kryptonians. Maybe when Clark was going after the other terraform machine in India, Diana showed up in Metropolis with her sword, shield and lasso, and starts killing the invaders mercilessly and with fighting skills at least as competent as theirs.
 
This movie, and what WB are attempting to do in the next bunch CANNOT fail.

I dont want to go through another set of years of recasting and more origin stories.

Some of you may consider it a sloppy foundation, but lets just get the ball rolling.
 
I've been thinking a lot about Snyder's characterization of Superman lately. While I think criticisms of "Not mah Supahman" are largely not the actual problems with the film, I do wonder if Snyder's focus on the "Super" over the "man" was really the right choice. I do think there's merit to his approach of examining how the world would react to someone like Superman, I just think he often botches the execution.

I think one of my problems with Man of Steel, more so than the destruction, or the killing was that every flashback to Clark's childhood focused on his "otherness" over his humanity. It was all about how different he is from us, and I'm not sure that's what's most interesting about the character.

If I were to make a Superman origin film I think, more than any other Superman film, the inspiration I'd take for portraying his childhood would be Linklater's Boyhood. I think, what you need in those scenes, is to both show Superman's early discovery of his powers, but also highlight the fact that what makes him Superman is that he had the same childhood as any of us. Humanize the fuck out of him in these sequences.

I want to see child Clark getting upset as his parents have their first big fight in front of him, I want to see teenage Clark going on a first date, and awkwardly losing his virginity with Lana Lang. I want to see teenage Clark try alcohol with his friends for the first time (and subsequently fail to feel the effects of the alcohol).

What makes Superman such an inspirational figure is that while we may not have the potential to be as powerful as Superman, we do have the potential to be as good as Superman, he's ultimately, just one of us, and that's something Snyder seems to not care about or realize.
 
I want to see teenage Clark going on a first date, and awkwardly losing his virginity with Lana Lang. I want to see teenage Clark try alcohol with his friends for the first time (and subsequently fail to feel the effects of the alcohol).
I'd rather keep the CW stuff off the big screen
 
This movie, and what WB are attempting to do in the next bunch CANNOT fail.

I dont want to go through another set of years of recasting and more origin stories.

Some of you may consider it a sloppy foundation, but lets just get the ball rolling.
This movie is by all accounts a failure. So we already at that point. It takes some insane levels of denial to say otherwise.

The audience roundly rejected it by all indications as shown by the toxic word of mouth leading to the biggest drops for a film in the genre behind Ang Lees Hulk and tied with X-Men Origins Wolverine.

The movie we have been told needs 925 mil to profit theatrically which it is highly unlikely to do.

This movie is both critically and at the boxoffice failed to match a low budget r-rated X-Men spinoff.

It's Amazing Spider-Man 2 all over again. A movie that fails to do any sort of world building, all it did was turn audience off and quickly fade away after opening weekend much like ASM 2.
 
This movie is by all accounts a failure. So we already at that point. It takes some insane levels of denial to say otherwise.

The audience roundly rejected it by all indications as shown by the toxic word of mouth leading to the biggest drops for a film in the genre behind Ang Lees Hulk and tied with X-Men Origins Wolverine.

The movie we have been told needs 925 mil to profit theatrically which it is highly unlikely to do.

This movie is both critically and at the boxoffice failed to match a low budget r-rated X-Men spinoff.

This movie by all accounts is not a success.

It's amazing when you see a post that throws shade at BvS and Deadpool at the same time.
 
It's amazing when you see a post that throws shade at BvS and Deadpool at the same time.
Huh? Deadpool is a low budget r-rated X-Men spinoff. No one can deny that. How am I throwing shade at it? What I said was praise for Deadpools success.

The fact it did what it did is incredible and beyond impressive. How many a year ago would say it would outgross Batman v Superman?
 
This movie, and what WB are attempting to do in the next bunch CANNOT fail.

I dont want to go through another set of years of recasting and more origin stories.

Some of you may consider it a sloppy foundation, but lets just get the ball rolling.

You might want to buy a few more tickets then.
 
I've been thinking a lot about Snyder's characterization of Superman lately. While I think criticisms of "Not mah Supahman" are largely not the actual problems with the film, I do wonder if Snyder's focus on the "Super" over the "man" was really the right choice. I do think there's merit to his approach of examining how the world would react to someone like Superman, I just think he often botches the execution.

I think one of my problems with Man of Steel, more so than the destruction, or the killing was that every flashback to Clark's childhood focused on his "otherness" over his humanity. It was all about how different he is from us, and I'm not sure that's what's most interesting about the character.

If I were to make a Superman origin film I think, more than any other Superman film, the inspiration I'd take for portraying his childhood would be Linklater's Boyhood. I think, what you need in those scenes, is to both show Superman's early discovery of his powers, but also highlight the fact that what makes him Superman is that he had the same childhood as any of us. Humanize the fuck out of him in these sequences.

I want to see child Clark getting upset as his parents have their first big fight in front of him, I want to see teenage Clark going on a first date, and awkwardly losing his virginity with Lana Lang. I want to see teenage Clark try alcohol with his friends for the first time (and subsequently fail to feel the effects of the alcohol).

What makes Superman such an inspirational figure is that while we may not have the potential to be as powerful as Superman, we do have the potential to be as good as Superman, he's ultimately, just one of us, and that's something Snyder seems to not care about or realize.

I like your ideas, but that would be a hard sell to modern movie audiences, who are more interested in Superman punching and levelling cities than growing up. Plus, we really don't need to know the character's origin again, even if he won't be recast for another 10 years or so.

This movie, and what WB are attempting to do in the next bunch CANNOT fail.

I dont want to go through another set of years of recasting and more origin stories.

Some of you may consider it a sloppy foundation, but lets just get the ball rolling.

I wouldn't mind them just getting the ball rolling like you suggest, but I'd rather it were without Zack Snyder at the helm. He had every opportunity to fix the mistakes made in Man of Steel, but the same problems rolled around to BvS and it doesn't seem like he learnt much at all.
 
Huh? Deadpool is a low budget r-rated X-Men spinoff. No one can deny that. How am I throwing shade at it? What I said was praise for Deadpools success.

The fact it did what it did is incredible and beyond impressive. How many a year ago would say it would outgross Batman v Superman?

No one. Because box office is a crap shoot. People's reactions can never be anticipated.
 
hey at least justice league part one will release at the end of the year as opposed to spring break. i mean, what competition does it have? a star wars spinoff? pffft
 
hey at least justice league part one will release at the end of the year as opposed to spring break. i mean, what competition does it have? a star wars spinoff? pffft
If you think Justice League has any chance at out grossing a Han Solo movie you are crazy. I am guessing your post was sarcasm though.

The lineup of movies that fall is much much tougher than the empty March BvS faced. JL Part 1 is sandwiched between Thor and Star Wars.
 
If you think Justice League has any chance at out grossing a Han Solo movie you are crazy. I am guessing your post was sarcasm though.

The lineup of movies that fall is much much tougher than the empty March BvS faced.

It's a Han Solo prequel without Harrison Ford. I wouldn't bet on that getting close to a billion without seeing who they cast.
 
I like your ideas, but that would be a hard sell to modern movie audiences, who are more interested in Superman punching and levelling cities than growing up. Plus, we really don't need to know the character's origin again, even if he won't be recast for another 10 years or so.



I wouldn't mind them just getting the ball rolling like you suggest, but I'd rather it were without Zack Snyder at the helm. He had every opportunity to fix the mistakes made in Man of Steel, but the same problems rolled around to BvS and it doesn't seem like he learnt much at all.

Nearly every Superman film has none of that in the first hour.

I'm also not saying construct a whole film about these ideas, I'm saying, if I were to do short flashbacks to his upbringing like in MoS, I think I'd personally find it more interesting and effective to spend as much or more screentime on the things that make Superman like us, rather than exclusively focusing on the things that made him different.
 
I had forgotten WB set that JL date before Disney pushed Episode 8 back from May. WB has no choice but move the film at this point. Disney sure seems to like to fuck up WBs release plans.
 
God damn I just got April Fooled when I read an article that said Zack Snyder was fired from Justice League. They even had fake Snyder tweets up lol...
 
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