Undead Fantasy
Member
I need this in the extended cut.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
- Start date
- Status
Hey I tried to get a good look at WW's sword but missed it: is it the sword of Alexander that she and Batman chat about? Or was that whole scene just another isolated, pointless aside?
Yeah I definitely caught that last night. However, this whole "did he smile" thing is kind of a side show, because he emphatically does not smile while dragging the boat or snatching the rocket's crew capsule. He's some mixture of bored / put out / exerting himself I guess? for those.
Yeah I definitely caught that last night. However, this whole "did he smile" thing is kind of a side show, because he emphatically does not smile while dragging the boat or snatching the rocket's crew capsule. He's some mixture of bored / put out / exerting himself I guess? for those.
Ragnorok64
Member
Wait what's been going on about the money this film is making? I haven't been paying attention. I always thought that even if DC's movie offerings were half as successful as Marvel's stuff that would still translate into a boatload of money. How much did they spend on marketing?
MHWilliams
Member
A ton.
It's worth putting this in perspective. Batman v Superman's listed production budget is $250 million, but some rumor had that much higher, and the marketing spend was hefty. Add in the fact that the box office take isn't entirely going to the studio and you start to see the problem.
Here's Deadline's breakdown:
It needs around $925 million worldwide ($375M domestic, $450M foreign, $100M China) to turn a profit of $207 million. It's already to $680 million, but sales have jumped off a cliff. Now it's looking more like $900 million will be the final take. $175 million isn't bad at all. Financially, BvS should do just fine for Warner Bros.
The problem is perception. To illustrate, let me use Amazing Spider-Man 2.
Amazing 2 has a worldwide take of $708 million on a budget of $255 million. Deadline puts the profits for Amazing 2 at around $70 million. So it was profitable. The issue is three fold:
1. Sony wanted $850 million at least.
2. Amazing was a springboard into more films.
3. It made less than its predecessor.
Batman v Superman had greater expectations, despite Warner Bros trying to spin it otherwise. The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises were billion dollar films. (Man of Steel was $668 million in comparison.) The film was the first time Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were ever onscreen together. It's the beginning of the Justice League. It should have been an easy win.
Warner Bros is chasing the wonderful period from around 2002-2014, where it had Harry Potter and the Tolkien films to bring in consistent money. They were hoping for Avengers/Transformers money here and it's likely they'll end up below that. Worse, they have to wonder if the poor word of mouth for Batman v Superman will lead to depressed sales on Justice League, like the rough start of Amazing Spider-Man probably hit Amazing 2. Sony was so afraid of subsequent drops that it completely cancelled its slate, went to Marvel Studios, and rebooted the character again.
That's how you can be a failure, while still financially succeeding. It's not just BvS, it's how this film will effect the success of Justice League (a ton), Wonder Woman (slightly), Suicide Squad (slightly, if at all), and the other DC films. It's how BvS was supposed to track (amazing!) versus how it's going to actually do (great!).
breadtruck
Member
I just got back from seeing it, and I thought it was enjoyable. Some things could have been done without, or cut back on (the dream sequences, the Batman origin story again,) but it was entertaining. I think a lot of the problem here is a lemming attitude. Its fun to hate with the "cool kids"
This. And you would be handed a detailed thesis at the door before you sit so you can fully grasp the magnitude of each detail of every second.
I like to participate in the discussions, but Ill never take NeoGaf's crowd-opinion of stuff seriously.
This. And you would be handed a detailed thesis at the door before you sit so you can fully grasp the magnitude of each detail of every second.
I like to participate in the discussions, but Ill never take NeoGaf's crowd-opinion of stuff seriously.
I don't think that's what is happening here.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Well, it's counter balanced pretty well by the "I have no idea what everyone's on about, but I liked it!"
It's just the nature of the game. Not every poster has the time or inclination to write out a complex thought piece on what they think of the movie.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I mean. The second sentence is perfectly correct, but that's not really related to the first? I'm talking about people hating on a movie they straight up say they haven't seen, lol.
Zantetsuken
Member
How can it be balanced if one side hasn't seen the movie?
I don't think it's strictly necessary. I mean, when we talk about film and writing quality, yeah, you need to see the movie itself to properly criticize it. That kind of stuff lies in the technicalities of the movie. But what if you just hate that Superman and Batman are shitlords in the movie? Lets say that someone accurately describes the plot and characters of Batman and Superman to that person, and they confirm it by asking other people. It's possible to get a generally accurate read on a movie by listening to other people on the conceptual end of things.
If they just don't want to see Batman and Superman being shitlords, and they know for a fact that they're shitlords, then watching them be shitlords probably isn't going to change that. They don't need to see that to hate on a film, anymore than I would need to see a nazi propoganda film to hate on Nazi propaganda.
Because everyone's definition of shit lord isn't exactly the same.
And I'm going to pretend that you didn't just vaguely compare BvS to nazi propaganda.
Well, that sure. I was more referring to the "cool kids" point - I assure you, there's nothing less cool that tribalism fueled infighting in "nerd culture."
Just finally decided to see the movie today to make time before my doctor appointment and man it is as disjointed and bad as some people said it was. So Luther knows everyone's secret identity. WTF.
Only good thing in the movie was how cute Ezra Miller was in his flash mini trailer
Only good thing in the movie was how cute Ezra Miller was in his flash mini trailer
That's why I said accurately describe the characters. It's not just "batman's a shitlord", but "Batman lets his fears and paranoia control him so he can beat up on Clark just because he's an alien. He casually murders a bunch of people without the slightest hint of remorse or compassion. When fighting superman, and he weakens him with Kryptonite, he pounds on him, but when Superman regains those powers, he stops, backs off, and puts his hand up in a 'don't hurt me' gesture like a coward."
and so on. Just describing what happens in the movie accurately. That way, they get a pretty exact idea of what kind of shitlord batman is.
For the love of god, does no one know how comparisons or analogies work anymore?
Holy crap I forgot about the dream sequences and the person from the future or whatever speaking to Bruce.
Specifically on the very very long sequence of the apocalyptic future with dudes flying in insect armor suits...is that part of a comic arc or something? I was completely lost as the set peieces and Batman's outfit seemed very specific.
I think the scene we had all seen from the trailer (Bruce chained up, dudes bowing, Bruce killed) would have been adequate
Poodlestrike
Banned
broncobuster
Banned
Thank you so much, I am glad he wasn't totally forgotten now my blood pressure is coming back down.
The people in limbo wouldn't realize it in the first place.
But let's not pretend there wasn't the smallest of narratives, coming off Man of Steel, that BvS was going to be just as dismissed. I've met people face-to-face who were anticipating its failure - months before its review embargo.
On Gaf alone, we could probably find an entire assortment of Man of Steel threads, and each one has a huge commentary on the film's merits. Seriously, as far as all the film bloggers I visit, no other film existed in 2013. And half of them thought it was part of "the worst films of 2013" - (actual quote from Forbes', you know the guy who looks like a villain).
Astral Dog
Member
You want to see Smallville
Batman lets his fear and paranoia control him, ever since the awesome opening action scene, where he sees the capabilities of an indestructible alien being. Singularly minded to end this threat, he pursues the only means necessary: kryptonite. In classic, "show don't tell" we get glimpses of this new Batman's troubled past such as the shrine-like glass case holding the costume of his lost sidekick Robin (RIP), and the Wayne Manor having been destroyed. Subtext.
As for the text, we hear how he's further greyed his morals (just like his hair! Poetry. It rhymes), and how Alfred - forever loyal - disapproves. "He is not our enemy!" Alfred surmises. But alas, Alfred wasn't there. Alfred's employee was neither framed to be an apparent "suicide bomber." The tipping point in Batmans' insanity (don't the best comic-book stories have him unhinged?) "He brought the war to us!" Bruce Wayne cries. "Count the dead. Thousands of people," he declares, "what's next, millions?"
In the ultimate effort to kill this untrustworthy alien (and c'mon, Superman deserves good ass kicking. Don't the greatest heroes, suffer the most?) Batman kills Luthor's goons - and note, kills, not murder - through collateral (Well... lol. They shot first - with armour piercing rounds); not out of cold blood, but out of rage, determination, and purpose. For the very safety of the entire world. And he'd have died trying.
And at the end of the movie he learns to trust again.
Damn, now I want to see the movie again.
looked it up
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...s-big-dream-sequence-in-batman-v-superman.htm
Hopefully the extended version of it will make more sense
One thing to note, is that it wasn't a "dream sequence" but rather an alternate timeline's memory. The Flash had moved through time. Batfleck indeed shrugged it off because of his previous two dreams. and it only cemented his hatred.
We'll likely get the full story when the Flash movie comes out.
So you enjoyed Batman being a shitlord. Good for you, I guess, but the hypothetical that the conversation involved a person who DIDN'T want to see Batman being a shitlord.
If they don't want to see Batman being a shitlord, you're not going to convince him by "but being a shitlord is awesome!"
My point being is that Batman wasn't a shitlord in the movie. Not even close. As Rocket Raccoon once said, "why are you lying?" If we seriously want to take that idea into account, then let's talk about Batman in Tim Burton's films. Batman was a Shitlord of the Ninth Order, and killed people with a grin on his face. He straight up murders clown-folk. And heck, even causes more property damage than the TDK trilogy combined.
But if you're convinced Batfleck is the type to shit on your cereal... by all means.
Batfleck is precisely the type of batman that would shit in people's cereal, and then break their legs. You don't refute anything I say, just give reasons for why it is. A fuckwad who lets his fear control him for a reason is still a fuckwad.
Batfleck is a horrifically written character, much like the rest of the movie, but this isn't even about that. This is about people who just don't want to see Batman be a shitlord, regardless of the narrative the film gives, even if it were a good narrative. Which it isn't.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
You will most likely get your batman in the solo batfleck movie that has not been tarnished by Snyder.
Discotheque
Banned
even 'tarnished' batman was amazing in a few of his scenes. that introduction in the sex trafficking house was on another level. i want a whole batman movie like THAT.
Poodlestrike
Banned
What you want is a Gotham Central movie.
What everybody wants is a Gotham Central movie.
Discotheque
Banned
that would be nice as well but I meant treating batman as atmospherically as that scene where he's almost a horror character.
throw in a couple warehouse fight sequences, some detective work too and you got the best comic book movie of the decade.
Fuckin' A
Poodlestrike
Banned
No, that's what I mean. That moment was straight out of GC, sans brand. Batman as a terrifying, slightly alien force.
Too late. The past films in a franchise don't just stop existing because the writer changes hands. The bad writing of BvS will be a part of the the next film, regardless of how good the writer cleans up, which we have no guarentee of that happening. And this is simply not the batman I want to see as a whole. I doubt that they're going to drop the brutalizing and sadism elements of his character, because good writing takes a previous written version, and has it flow into the new one. Otherwise, there is a disconnect between the last movie and the new one. The new team would be challenged to clean up Batman's entire character, essentially. A reboot would be a cleaner, simpler break, but that's not happening any time soon, and that's a shame, because Affleck clearly put his heart and souls into his performance, so it's too bad that the writer and director didn't live up to that quality.
So, Batman and Superman are both tarnished goods, as far as I'm concerned. The rest of the League, including Wonder Woman, have a shot at being decent, but it's too late for the big two. Anything better writers can do would be damage control, and they can only do so much of that.
So I'm just gonna chill and read Scott Snyder comics as they come out.
Edit: Also, complete coincidence, but my username used to be "generic", probably for the same reason you made yours generic_username lol
Discotheque
Banned
yeah but i mean i would still like it to be a batman film rather than have him be simply a presence in the movie. but yeah gotham central handled like that bat introduction would be on another level too.
these studios aren't ambitious enough or willing to take the risks that they should
who cares. xmen did this and it worked out so well with dofp. sometimes consistency doesn't matter if your preceding films are bad, they should be ignored. people will get over it in minutes if the film is great.
No, not for me. I'm too much of a holistic reader. While I enjoy the xmen movies, I look down at their sloppiness and inconsistency. It's definitely a fault. And unlike X-men, which both did a soft reboot and had the characters on a new storyline, you can't just go "Do over!" on a continuing storyline like Batman's journey to JL is supposed to be.
I thought Lex was one of the more enjoyable characters of the movie.
Lots of unnecessary scenes I thought. The long drawn out opening that served no purpose other than to teach the audience his mother's name. Weak.
But all in all I liked it. I do have a question though. So how is Supes able to regenerate a huge hole in his chest, but Zod can't regenerate a broken neck?
Or will they go the route of him having some of Doomsday's DNA inside him and that helps him come back?
Lots of unnecessary scenes I thought. The long drawn out opening that served no purpose other than to teach the audience his mother's name. Weak.
But all in all I liked it. I do have a question though. So how is Supes able to regenerate a huge hole in his chest, but Zod can't regenerate a broken neck?
Or will they go the route of him having some of Doomsday's DNA inside him and that helps him come back?
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
While I understand your sentiments, it would be unfortunate for Affleck if a lot of people take the same stand considering he did no wrong . He acted exactly in a way that was expected of him and he was very good at what he was told to do with whatever crappy script he was given. I still feel he is visually the best looking Batman - Even that scene with the sex traffickers the way he moves when the cop shoots him--- it is just how I thought Batman will move in real life.. It reminded me briefly of the moment in year one.. I think it would be highly unfortunate if Affleck says fk it and leaves. He is too good of a casting for Batman to not get a second chance because of a pathetic script and Snyder's incompetent direction.
Cool that you had the same username you should not have changed it lol
While I understand your sentiments, it would be unfortunate for Affleck if a lot of people take the same stand considering he did no wrong . He acted exactly in a way that was expected of him and he was very good at what he was told to do with whatever crappy script he was given. I still feel he is visually the best looking Batman - Even that scene with the sex traffickers the way he moves when the cop shoots him--- it is just how I thought Batman will move in real life.. It reminded me briefly of the moment in year one.. I think it would be highly unfortunate if Affleck says fk it and leaves. He is too good of a casting for Batman to not get a second chance because of a pathetic script and Snyder's incompetent direction.
Cool that you had the same username you should not have changed it lol
Affleck didn't deserve to be given the short end of the stick, I agree. Same with Amy Adams. She wanted to be Lois since forever and tried out for the Superman Returns movie. They're two people who I know put their hearts into their roles, but neither the writers or director pulled through for them, and it didn't result in a good movie.
And I don't approve of Affleck's interpretation of Batman in any case. I don't like Batman being a sadistic, cruel coward, and I don't buy that his 'character development' is sufficient to get him out of that. Of course, time will tell where they take the character, but I don't think the studio will hear "Well, the movie sucked as a whole, but people are responding to Batman" and say "Good, good, now lets change his character completely".
Visually speaking, I'm not actually a fan. Sure, he looks most like a comic character come to life, but I wish the comic they took wasn't Frank Miller's TDKR. He looks like his muscles are about to burst out of his batsuit, I hate the tiny ears, and I don't like the fat bat symbol. It's the best rendition possible of the batman design I hate the most. I much prefer both BB and TDK's batsuits where they look like actual tactical uniforms that are placed on a man whose fit but still looks like a human being, not a roided up gorilla. The Marvel movies are like this as well. Chris Evans and Chris Helsworth and Chris Pratt are all atleast as beefcakey as Affleck and Cavil, and they each have like one scene per movie dedicated to them showing off their bodies to the audience, their actual superhero costumes just fit them well, they don't hug their muscles to show off how insanely swoll they are to the point of near comedy.
I'm not even that impressed with his action scenes except for the one towards the end with the thugs. I'll talk about that one in a moment, but the Knightmare scene was as bad as Nolan's "goons fight in the worst manner possible so Batman can strike at them" (trust me, you'll see it when the bluray comes out and someone gifs the superman squad rushing up put their guns in Batman's striking distance) and the Batmobile chase was horribly shot. I never knew where Batamn's car was in relation to anything, and all he did was shoot or drive through everything rather than manuever. This made the chase scene feel very slow, like there wasn't any danger of Batman losing them because he was always in range of shooting at them. While Nolan can't do action scenes too well, I feel the Tumbler scenes were better than this. His fight with Superman was especially uninspired. Aside from being a direct rip off of TDKR (just because it's based on it, doesn't mean it can't get creative with it. Find another way to fight Superman than "Apply kryptonite -> fight like normal" where he just sits and beats on him.), it's just kind of boring as it has no technique to it. It's mostly just two guys smashing each other.
The only one that had some visual flair to it was the final scene with Batman vs the Thugs who captured Martha....except that's borderline plageriazed from the Arkham games. Like, you can tick off marks with how he uses gadgets from that game, makes the leaping moves from that game. And this is nothing like how he fought in the Knightmare sequence, so it honestly does feel like Snyderr just played some of Arkham Knight and was like "Lets put a scene like this in the movie" without worrying about the fact that that's now how he established Batman to have fought the rest of the film. Again, holistic viewer here. On it's own, it's fantastic, but it doesn't fit in with the rest of the movie. It could have been made to fit if Batman fought differently in his other fights, but that's not what happened.
So yeah. I'm glad that Affleck put his heart and soul into his performance and as an actor he did a great job. I'd have no problem hiring him in a reboot where he plays a different Batman (same with Amy Adams. I'm sure she has more to offer than being constantly saved by Superman as Lois), but Batfleck himself just checks all my "Nope" boxes, from his personality to his aesthetic. It's the very worst aspects of Batman put together in a frankenstein monster that I just never want to see again. It's partially the writing, but the other part of it is that I'm just not impressed by the same things that most people are, I guess.
Inferno313
Banned
Grinchy
Banned
I'm not so sure about that. They all realized that Doomsday was getting stronger the more they hit him. They would have needed the kryptonite either way, I think. The nuke just sped up the process of making him the spiky, strong Doomsday we know from the comic.
Valkerionseven
Member
Finally caught it last night. Thought it was decent, better than everyone was freaking out about for sure. People just hate to hate. That said it definitely fell pretty flat on multiple fronts.
Bats body count was weird, Supes not really being concerned about the things before he shows up like the opening were weird. Forced Justice League characters along with no GL outside the ferris air mention.
Enjoyed WW fighting though, thought they nailed that even if it was all CG. Keep Synder in on action scenes, get a new writer like others are nodding.
Bats body count was weird, Supes not really being concerned about the things before he shows up like the opening were weird. Forced Justice League characters along with no GL outside the ferris air mention.
Enjoyed WW fighting though, thought they nailed that even if it was all CG. Keep Synder in on action scenes, get a new writer like others are nodding.
She's the same actress who played Mariko in The Wolverine, and she's way hotter in that. She looks like a stick in this movie. Those stick arms. D:
I dunno, I have a hard time reconciling how anyone watched that movie and walked away feeling like "haters were just hating" on it.
I came away feeling it was all pretty damn justified. So much of the film was cut SO awkward that I just... couldn't understand what they were trying to do. The intro about Bats parents was fine, then after that it just feels like a rollercoaster.
All the nightmares were thrown in there, and noone who isn't familiar with the comics will understand what in the bloody HELL was going on there. Im serious, I kept looking for them to frame it for the folks that haven't read the source material and they never did. So for a lot of people I could TOOOOOTALLY see these random ass cuts to Batman in the desert with a bunch of flying monsters and shit to be random as fuck.
Oh lord and the Flash? The time travel message? REALLY? Gonna explain even a LITTLE of that to your viewers man? But the worst part was Batman nor Superman were likable. I mean, like, they both seemed like assholes to a degree that the writers didn't WANT me to like. But I got the opposite feeling for WW (and I loved her in the film).
The less I say about the stupid Batman Rocky training montage and the stupid CG doomsday roaring on the top of a building in Gotham like fucking King Kong, or the awkward "Oh hey, they are way up in space now, let's nukem out of fucking nowhere k mr. president?", or or or the cheesy 'talkin wit ma ghost dad on da mountaintop' mess or even the 'documents' or emails or whatever that had fucking LOGOS for Flash WW Aqua and Cyborg!!!! gyyyyyyaaaaaaaaahahahahahahah.
I swear to god man. I just.... This should have been two movies. Because the JL seeding felt forced and super rushed, and the character development suffered because of it. I dont even know where to start or stop with this movie. It was a bit of a mess.
Thank the gods for Wonder Woman man. I fucking loved every line she had, her look and her fighting in the movie. I doubted Gal Gadot at the time of casting but if this is any indication she will be spectacular.
I watched this movie the other day and thought it was great, certainly better than most of the recent Marvel movies. Hell, I enjoyed it a lot more than the most recent Star Wars movie. What did people not like about it? Thought it was very entertaining. Sure, some parts were stupid, but in most movies there are stupid parts, so it didn't bother me too much.
Discotheque
Banned
people who hate the workout scene have no soul. that was probably the best thing about the latter half of the movie tbh. these superhero movies lack a dope training scene and it sold bruce as a real beast of a physical specimen. it was nice to see him prepare for action for once.
That is because the movie is straight up terrible. And you can't even be sure that the flash that showed up isn't some alternate timeline version. I went with 5 other people and they had no idea that Flash and Batman even interacted with each other.
I give them props for the batman casting because its the best Bruce casting ever. The movie is still terrible. And the biggest random toss in was the Doomsday fight because why the fuck not throw it in there.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked