Captain America: Civil War - Final Trailer
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Dabookerman
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That's exactly what they're doing!
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Is this sarcasm? That was announced a year ago, almost to the day.
They can still have Daredevil in Civil War and not have him be breaking bones on screen in the movie...
Tony quipping is fine because it's Tony, but Hawkeye needs to shut the fuck up.
Even Captain quipping feels wrong. Like when he throws the bike at the Hydra soldiers and pauses to say "oops it slipped" , SHUT UP DAMMIT.
I can't stand this kind of one-liners ...
Again, they won't play with the formula because it stands to lose them billions. Just the reality of it, quips and all.
I think my biggest problem right now with Civil War is that hilarious fight scene at the airport is just too clean. Almost feels like an after school fight where the two kids have set specific times on when to appear and how it should all go down. Too much planning that it makes it feel less of a civil war, but who knows if that is truly the end fight.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I also like age of ultron. Thought it was boss.
The party scene in Avengers Tower and the farm were excellent and some of the best scenes in the MCU, no one can pull off that kind of effortless chemistry than JW.
Humanizing your heroes and making them feel like real people can actually go a long way to selling them as heroic figures. These are the moments that plant the seeds for Civil War excellently.
Hearing people here shit on the film from such great heights is baffling to me
Humanizing your heroes and making them feel like real people can actually go a long way to selling them as heroic figures. These are the moments that plant the seeds for Civil War excellently.
Hearing people here shit on the film from such great heights is baffling to me
My feelings as well. AoU has a lot of characters and all of them has a good arc, as a group they have an arc, the villain makes sense in his own internal logic, all the characters who are on the same side disagree with each other and all of them are right given their points of view and personalities and stuff.
AoU has a very good script on a time where the script is apparently written after the trailer and the CG and the focus group.
Action movies these days are so crappy that they are only enjoyable when they are bonkers over the top on purpose because Hollywood forgot how to write a goddamn character. AoU writes a whole group of them. For that alone, I don't think I will ever dislike this movie.
Civil War is a reference to the drift between the Avengers. it's not an actual war. And the airportscene isn't the final fight. It's not a DC-movies trailer.
I would honestly settle for seeing Matt Murdock as a lawyer in one of these movies.
Seriously though, lol at "formula". It's less about a formula and more about they are fucking leading the comic book movie genre with an iron grip right now whether you want to admit it or not. They have everyone and their mothers copying THEIR blueprint for a Cinematic Universe and critics and viewers alike prefer their films above everyone else's according to every quantifiable metric. It's not about the formula, it's about not fixing what isn't broken.
They have their identity, and its working just as they wanted it too. The others are stumbling in the dark trying to find their footing.
People have different opinions on movies, don't take it too seriously. I do agree that some scenes in Ultron were great, but overall the package was mediocre and delivered an alright family hero film. I loved the humour in Avengers with Loki's quips and such but in Ultron it just felt out of place when we had these effortless jokes during somewhat serious times.
But again, opinions and such. My favourite movie of all time is The Labyrinth and believe it is the best thing since sliced bread.
But it very much is a formula. And it is working for them, I couldn't disagree there and don't want to. I enjoy the films for what they are, sound comic book adaptations to the silver screen. Doesn't mean the formula isn't showing flaws.
Marvel "formula" is to make good movies. You stablish characters, you make them likeable, you alternante moments of tension with moments of comic relief, and so on. Marvel's formula is what make indiana Jones good movies or die hard or star wars.
Marvel movies might have a sort of visual identity (because these characters have to eventually share screen space, so they have to look like they are from the same universe), but what make them work is what make stories in general work. Marvel didn't discovered a formula, it is the rest of Hollywood that forgot it.
Marvel movies might have a sort of visual identity (because these characters have to eventually share screen space, so they have to look like they are from the same universe), but what make them work is what make stories in general work. Marvel didn't discovered a formula, it is the rest of Hollywood that forgot it.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Even if there's a 'Marvel Formula', which I don't think there is, I would prefer it a thousand times over than the drab gloomy joyless offerings from DC.
Marvel formula is a lot like trying to define nu-metal; everyone sort of knows what it is but not every movie has all the individual elements. So in the same way that Korn are nu-metal even though they don't have a DJ or some bands are nu-metal despite not using 7-string guitars, I think most of the movies boil down to a fairly basic formula, but it's all in the execution anyway.
Triggerhappytel
Member
"Back to formula?"
I like Age of Ultron a lot, but I agree that my main issue with the film is Ultron feeling rather un-threatening, as well as the final action scene mirroring Avengers 1 a little too closely. It doesn't feel as tight as Avengers 1 does and the set-ups for other Marvel films feels a little too obvious.
However, I love love love the Hulk/Hulkbuster fight, and the movie is almost worth it just for that.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Sorry, DP.
I rewatched it as well and still like it a lot. However I do understand the people who don't. I think the character focussed moments fall rather flat, it doesn't shake things up too much, Ultron is not as interesting as he could have been and the final setpiece relies on the Avengers fighting a bunch of smaller guys that are no real threat to them just like in the first Avengers. Now the last point is not a negative for me personally because I enjoy watching that stuff. The combo attacks, the tearing apart of drones, I had fun with that despite the lack of tension but I also get why it might be boring for other people.
The backlash against the first Avengers movie here on GAF is more difficult for me to understand though.
I agree with this. AoU had a lot of issues that made the movie merely "goodish" for me - a 7.5/10 kind of movie. But it did have some scenes that I loved like the Hulkbuster fight, party scene, Ultron's birth, and Vision just generally being awesome in the 2nd half. Loved the last talk between Vision and Ultron in particular. And they get bagged on a lot here, but I quite liked the dynamic between Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. He was very much the big bro and the go-getter/brave one of the two, but then SW is forced to grow up real fast in that final battle after what happens to him.
Agreed. Although Ulton was quite lackluster as a villain, IMHO. Perhaps if the story allowed for a Vibranium Ultron, he could disengage the drones in arrogance, and we'd have all the Avengers move in unison to destroy him. Not unlike that continueous shot in Avengers, except now every combo aimed at Ultron. Complete the "build a team"-theme they've started in the first Avengers.
IndoAssassin
Banned
All I want is the Black Panther movie to be the best of the best. Only then Marvel will be #1 and never be topped. If they fail this, then they will always be #2. To who, I don't know because DC doing a shit job right now.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I still hold that a lot of people would like the movie a lot more if in that first fight with Ultron they'd had Ultron beat the tar out of everyone for about 5 minutes and cut the Hulkbuster fight by about a minute.
It doesn't seem like much, but it would shift focus to Ultron's high threat level and make him seem more dangerous, which would then carry throughout the film.
It wouldn't have solved everything (like Thor's plotline), but I think the reception would have been much warmer. I think they just focused on the wrong thing for that fight.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yes; the banter at the after-party especially was magnificent (that moment when Cap moves Mjolnir just a hair and Thor looks shocked is superb), and I think Vision was so great. That final conversation between Vision and Ultron was amazing.
I assumed the final form of Ultron is vibranium? He failed to acquire his living/vibranium body which Vision assumes, so goes back to his Sokovia base and builds another body identical to his current one except from a near-indestructible metal.
Yeah, if they'd established him as a physical threat early on I agree that it would have worked better. He just has that chase with Tony who then defeats him a few minutes later, which just makes him feel like a bitch. If he'd taken down Tony, gone back to the tanker and then beaten up Cap and/or Thor for instance before bailing with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, I'd have appreciated him much more as a threat. Maybe after taking down everyone Hulk could have smashed him to pieces (allowing us to understand that the Ultron AI is not confined to a physical location), and then have SW bewitch Hulk who goes to attack the city, an injured and alone Tony has to call on the satellite and fight Hulk himself.
I also would have preferred the final battle if Ultron had made fewer more dangerous robots as well - maybe make half a dozen of them, but all made from vibranium, instead of hundreds of highly disposable drones. Then have the Avengers face-off against a similar number of enemies who at the very least are their match. Also, a tiny grudge is that I'd have preferred Ultron's mouth to not move, and rather had the bar which lights up. I would have just found that to be a little more threatening in its appearance.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The Cap line of "it just slipped out." Is him defending the "Language!" line from earlier and Tony still giving him shit for it. He just happens to deliver it after throwing the bike.
If you're right then it was lost in translation in the French dub where he just said "butter fingers".
Maybe the dub makes the quipping really insufferable but it did ruin the movie for me.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Man, Age of Ultron was fantastic and is probably my 3rd favorite MCU movie.
1. Guardians
2. Winter Soldier
3. Ultron
The Hulkbuster fightscene, Ultron, Vision, Hawkeye's "You're an Avenger" spiel, party scene, and the barn scene are outstanding.
1. Guardians
2. Winter Soldier
3. Ultron
The Hulkbuster fightscene, Ultron, Vision, Hawkeye's "You're an Avenger" spiel, party scene, and the barn scene are outstanding.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I agree, with the exception of the fewer but more dangerous robots bit. Not because I dislike the idea, but if you did that Hawkeye and probably Black Widow would be useless in that final fight. They had to cater to the various power levels there.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The line was also in trailers a lot to sell the bike throw. But when I rewatched the film the other day it was definitely him defending himself from Tony's teasing.
And AoU is still disappointing. It isn't bad, but it isn't great either. It just is.
Honestly I would have let a lot of the other issues slide if I got more of what I wanted out of Ultron. It bugged me after seeing other Ultron stories that he gets blown up and rebuilt so many times over the course of the movie. In other media killing Ultron was always a hard-fought victory and him escaping into the Internet and coming back was usually more impactful not only because of that but because he tended to stay dead for more than 5 minutes.
If we'd gotten more of the party Ultron, more of the Vision/Ultron conversation Ultron I'd be happier. I also thought that the drone fight went on too long and the all vs Ultron fight didn't go on long enough. Demphasising the drones as extensions of himself was disappointing too, I thought they were best used in the brief moments where he's jumping between them taunting the Avengers.
Also I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the classic Ultron design couldn't emote enough
If we'd gotten more of the party Ultron, more of the Vision/Ultron conversation Ultron I'd be happier. I also thought that the drone fight went on too long and the all vs Ultron fight didn't go on long enough. Demphasising the drones as extensions of himself was disappointing too, I thought they were best used in the brief moments where he's jumping between them taunting the Avengers.
Also I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the classic Ultron design couldn't emote enough
What happens if I put in an extra egg? Do I get a free omelette?
Oh no, not different styled movies! How dare they!
You get Iron Man 2
It would be funny if this scene wasn't in the final film at all and is just some promo captions for the trailer
Pai Pai Master
Banned
It did it perfectly well in his final scene with The Vision. That was Ultron at his most convincing IMO.
I'm of the opinion that it was a mistake to not go with the classic gaping maw design for the final act. At that point Ultron had abandoned humanity, and I feel like that physical change would have been thematically consistent with his character development there.
I really dislike that "Ultimate Ultron" design. It's kinda busy and looks more like what I'd expect from a damn transformers movie and not a Marvel flick. A beefier version of the Ultron Drone design would have been spot-on.
Freewheelin'
Member
Spader was awesome.
Yeah that scene was great, and that was the Ultron I would have preferred. There are also one or two moments in the movie where he inhabits the drones and I wish they'd done more of them.
Yeah Spader's performance was great. Any problem I have with the character is entirely on script/direction/art design
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah would have also been cool if they didn't wipe Ultron from the net so promptly, I would have liked a scene of him taking over the comms on the SHIELD helicarrier and threatening them too. Basically just needed more of Ultron being a coldhearted asshole. Even at the very end in his scene with Wanda, Whedon was trying to find ways to humanize him. I wish he would have just been OK with Ultron going completely evil. Asshole Ultron is the best.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Hawkeye is like, the quippiest guy out of everyone you listed. If anything, him throwing around one liners makes him feel more like the comic book character.
Ultron used the bulk of the vibranium on the core that lifted Sokovia into the air. He most likely didn't have enough to use on the drones. Tony did mention that he did use it on his final form ("Have you been juicing? Vibranium cocktail?")
At the same time I'm not entirely sure you can do Ultron "properly" in film. I think he works best as a serialised media villain where you can have him fuck shit up for the finale and then spend a year or more rebuilding in the shadows. EMH shows it helps the story if you can drag out his origin too.
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