Bernie's got momentum, will of the people, and a better hashtag campaign.
Sanders supporters (NOT CAMPAIGN) creating Super Delegate Hit List
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Bernie's got momentum, will of the people, and a better hashtag campaign.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well I'm right aren't I? You aren't going to start liking Bernie even if he changed his mind on this tomorrow, right? You would still support Hillary?
Frozenprince
Banned
Hillary has been campaigning essentially for 8 years. Sanders just started real ground work less than 4 months before the primaries.
It was over before it started, everybody realized that.
It's not just one reason, it's one of many.
That's why no one else jumped in.
RustyNails
Member
Yeah if he wanted to be a real democrat he should have started his movement in 2012 and pushed for getting senate and congressional positions elected in the midterm while building a diverse coalition through the dem party. He just showed up as an unknown in 2015 and raised money for himself.
Building a presidential run takes years, Obama made significant inroads into the party before 2007 and supported downticket dems. Bernie should have started years earlier trying to get allies elected to positions for the dems.
We hate drama but we also live for it.
Frozenprince
Banned
If he changed his mind tomorrow it would probably just paint him more as a disingenuous idealist trying to preach to me instead of get shit done.
That's just me, though.
I think his policies goals are completely unrealistic and he personally is an ideologue who will not have the temperament to bargain and compromise to get any sort of realistic legislation passed.
I think he would be a completely ineffectual president, and that is the main reason why I am not a supporter of him. He is all talk and has absolutely no plan to turn any of that talk into actual change.
Heh, that's great. "Bernie has the will of the people!" is a common Reddit refrain. Well then, why is he down by 2 million odd voters and why have his victories mostly come from less populated, more white states?
If Hilary changed any of her policies over night you'd call her a two-faced opportunist.
And fyi, playing Johnny Come Lately isn't very confidence inspiring.
Frozenprince
Banned
The only other remotely feasible candidate was Joe Biden, and he decided not to run.
It was over the moment it began. It was just a matter of how much Hillary beat everybody on her path to the white house.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Why is the Reddit solution for everything a harassment campaign?
legacyzero
Banned
No, he really needs to be suppprting downticket dems. Wisconsin and the supreme court bullshit should not have happened.
Ogrekiller
Member
Nice how the will of the people involves coercion, intimidation and spreading FUD as well.
But hey, cults are like that.
Assuming your detractors "just don't like him" is so reductionist and naive. People can agree with politicians and still see them as a bad bet.
I voted for Sanders and one of my biggest problems with him is that he hasn't shown any interest in helping downticket candidates. Hillary has already raised funds for them. We're talking about the difference in whether dems retake the Senate this election or not. It will take money. It's not just some silly talking point.
I think Bernie's ambivalence toward supporting down ticket races is a deal breaker in and of itself, but even if he were to completely reverse course on it tomorrow, I would still have several reservations about him.
It's not about finding another reason to dislike him, it's that his lack of support for down ticket races is just another reason on the list of reasons why people -- myself included -- aren't in the Bernie camp.
You know saying his name on twitter is like saying "Candyman" in the mirror
Cause you don't have to leave the house and invest anything more than keyboard time
Hoho for breakfast
Member
They do it all the time...in the end superdelegates will side with whomever they themselves choose to. That's just how it works (which again is the part that I feel is bullshit). We can't really say 100% until July but for pledged superdelegates so far it's 469 Clinton to 31 Sanders, yet Sanders has about 42% (if I'm remembering right) of the popular vote. So there's a huge discrepancy there.
Not that I think we should have these Supers to begin with, but since we do, "fair" to me would be about a 60-40 split in line with the people's vote. That's obviously not what we have.
Frozenprince
Banned
When?
No I don't condone that, but I do condone people lobbying super delegates.
When is the last time they did it? Answer the question.
I already know the answer, I just want to see you admit it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sanders4President starts looking more and more like Kotaku in Action in the coming weeks.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's ridiculous too, he NEEDS a downticket shift in order to pass even a neutered version of one of his social policies. The fact that we're already at mid-April and he's not backing downticket support is fucking lunacy.
Even Donald Trump began laying the groundwork for his campaign for years ahead of time, and put in more time in building relationships with the party than Bernie did with the Democrats.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/donald-trump-campaign.html
I'm not a Hillary supporter. I am pragmatic as fuck and want a Democrat in the White House because the other side decided a murderer's row of race-baiters was somehow okay. Why is it every time someone goes in on Bernie, you're automatically counted as a Hilldawg supporter? It's like when I give one of my kids shit and he starts telling me about what his brothers did wrong. Dude, I'm talking about YOU.
And you're wrong. Bernie has had ample time to get it right with the constituencies he needs in order to win, and has squandered nearly every opportunity. On top of that, he has no allies within the party, which means none of his pie-in-the-sky rhetoric has a chance to become law, he can't answer the questions with any detail regarding the major plank his campaign has been built around, and has a voting record that doesn't inspire confidence.
Hillary got her ass whooped in 2008 and learned quickly that she had to earn that vote. Even if she doesn't mean it, she's saying it and that means she can be held accountable. She has the relationships and the ability to get shit done, and frankly, that's what matters to the pragmatic voting base.
#EarnThisVoteOrLose is right up there with #BernieSoBlack as my favourite hashtags of this campaign so far.
If he had been willing to spend some real money on this race he could have closed it up by now. His stinginess is going to take him down at this rate.
Exactly why I'm not supporting him. It's naiveté at its worst; basically ignoring all that obstruction that's been the norm for the past 8 years.
Wicked. Show your work.
Frozenprince
Banned
Even if he turns the house his shit has no chance. I'm sorry, you're not gonna get a league of what are essentially moderates to vote for your socialist party policies. It's just not happening.
RustyNails
Member
He doesn't need to support downballot races in order to win my vote. He needs to support downballot races in order to have a Democratic majority in Congress, and having that majority will help whoever's the Democratic president in November or buttress against a Republican president if one happens to win somehow. It shows that you care about the progressive movement as a whole. But Bernie doesn't. He likes to use Democrats as an establishment punching bag and with each punch he lands he gets hoots and hollers in the audience and pockets opening up on donation page. Even a few million towards cheaper media markets will do wonders for the downticket races. All that money he's getting, he's spending it on campaign including Tad Devine's $810k/month salary.
You should think of this issue not as points to earn, but rather as a leak to plug-up.
soul creator
Member
Agreed, especially after seeing Bill Clinton in that recent video
Unknown Soldier
Member
I finally got an actual response out of you instead of snark. Thank you. I actually do appreciate it. Also I have no further arguments to make, because you finally laid out in great detail what the other side thinks and you did so without healthy doses of condescension. I'm going to go for a run and think about this for awhile.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's like choosing which is the least painful way to die.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
That doesn't show it? The superdelegate count is around 469 to 31 in favor of Clinton. The vote of the population of the people is about 58 to 42% also in favor of Clinton. So if the supers were aligned with the vote, you would assume the roughly 60/40 split. That isn't anywhere close to what we have though.
I can also point out how Sanders won Washington but every superdelegate from Washington pledged to support Clinton. Same type of thing in Alaska. Look up Kim Metcalfe (a superdelegate) and what she had to say. I'm not sure if I can link huffington post articles so I won't.
Frozenprince
Banned
She is winning the popular vote so obviously they align with her.
Even if all of them voted the way their state voted.
She's STILL got more, so who cares? The sheer numbers don't matter if she still has the advantage.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Because super delegates always pledge to whoever is currently winning overall. If Bernie started winning, those supers would move over to Bernie.
That's how it works. Super delegates have never swayed a primary's results.
Ogrekiller
Member
He said the last time, not this time. The SDs haven't overturned the will of any people because they haven't voted yet.
Frozenprince
Banned
I feel like there needs to be a mandatory Poli Sci course to graduate HS at this point.
Super delegates rally behind the front runner, not proportionally state by state.
It wouldn't hurt. I wish I had taken more poli sci in college.
I said goddamn
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