Sanders supporters (NOT CAMPAIGN) creating Super Delegate Hit List

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you mean his principled stance that changed 3 times (from "states rights" to "civil unions okay" to "gay marriage") in the span of 4 years from 2005 to 2009?

because all we're saying is that he's not as principled as people tend to think
 
Makes sense.

But Im still failing to see how that affects his PRINCIPLE stance on it?

It means that no one is prefect on any issue and we shouldn't be acting like anyone is. These are politicians, even the best of them aren't 100 all the time. Given the option to do more than talk he punted because the public in his state wasn't there yet.
 
Akilah Ross Ensley is with the Young Democrats of America, and she's a superdelegate who plans to support Clinton. She has to check her professional Facebook page several times a day to deal with all the messages and posts.
[Clinton-backing super delegate Joyce Elliott] has heard from 20 or 30 Sanders supporters trying to get her to switch.
For Ken Martin, the chairman of the Minnesota Democratic Party, the flow of messages is constant — 20 a day, he said.

I feel bad for all these super delegates who can vote any way they want to regardless of the will of the people from their area, yet are receiving multiple requests from people to vote a certain way. Truly my heart bleeds for them.
 
Actually I've seen several posts trying to say she started the birther movement. But still, no reason to stoop to that level.
This post is amazing.

"There's this thing I heard, i don't know if it's true but i'm going to parrot it."

It's not true.
 
Sanders was against DOMA because he saw gay marriage has a states' rights issue. He thought that each state should decide who could get married, not the federal government. He has not been as much of an advocate for letting gay people get married as you are making him out to have been.



No one is saying he's been against gay marriage but he was perfectly fine with, say, Vermont allowing gay marriage but New Hampshire barring it. Being for gay marriage, against gay marriage and thinking it's a states' rights issue are three different positions.

DOMA was a law that prevented states from recognizing marriages performed in other states and defined marriage as being between a man and a woman

He voted against it

There is a huge difference between that and flatly stating that you are against gay marriage as Clinton repeatedly did until 2013
 
I agree that he should address it. Approach it as "communicate with our Super Delegates! But do treat tgem respectfully, and kindly ask for their vote."


Makes sense.

But Im still failing to see how that affects his PRINCIPLE stance on it?

Stating that it is a state's rights issue basically says that discrimination is okay when the majority of the state's population wants to discriminate against a certain segment of the population.

A person who argue's for state's rights in these cases does not believe that whatever is up for debate is a natural and inalienable right. Instead, it is a privilege decided by the the state's population.
 
I feel bad for all these super delegates who can vote any way they want to regardless of the will of the people from their area, yet are receiving multiple requests from people to vote a certain way. Truly my heart bleeds for them.

Receiving harassment to vote against the will of the people, you mean?
 
Stating that it is a state's rights issue basically says that discrimination is okay when the majority of the state's population wants to discriminate against a certain segment of the population.

A person who argue's for state's rights in these cases does not believe that whatever is up for debate is a natural and inalienable right. Instead, it is a privilege decided by the the state's population.

States rights is just a cop-out to avoid actually answering the question.
 
DOMA was a law that prevented states from recognizing marriages performed in other states and defined marriage as being between a man and a woman

He voted against it

There is a huge difference between that and flatly stating that you are against gay marriage as Clinton repeatedly did until 2013

Yet when his own state asked him to endorse a bill legalizing gay marriage, what happened?

No one is perfect, no one is right 100% of the time. These are politicians, they should be treated as such. They don't do shit until they think the people that vote for them are OK with it.
 
This post is amazing.

"There's this thing I heard, i don't know if it's true but i'm going to parrot it."

It's not true.

Eh? Are we talking the fact that there have been people on gaf that have posted that Hillary started the birther movement, when she didn't and it was her supporters? Or are we talking about the fact that Bernie has repeatedly admonished the BernieBros?

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...ebros-to-knock-it-off-we-dont-want-that-crap/

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) had a terse message for any of his supporters who engage in online harassment: “We don’t want that crap.” He told CNN on Sunday that the so-called “Berniebro” phenomenon is “disgusting” and that “anybody who is supporting me that is doing the sexist things — we don’t want them."
 
Yet when his own state asked him to endorse a bill legalizing gay marriage, what happened?

No one is perfect, no one is right 100% of the time. These are politicians, they should be treated as such. They don't do shit until they think the people that vote for them are OK with it.

His revolution would die the minute he got into the white house. People need to accept this. All his egrandizing and speeches and grand ideas, they're great. Idealism is great.

It's nice, being an idealist, it really is.

But we don't live in an idea reality, we live in the real world, where you have to compromise and make concessions. And that's exactly what will happen if by some miracle of miracles he becomes president.

Because he's a politician, just like everybody else there.
 
Although superdelegates follow the pledged delegates in practice its strange to me that they are allowed; by essentially PERSONAL opinion one single vote by a super is equivalent to the combined vote of thousands of people. It's the principle of the matter, even if supers have not overwrought a popular candidate the fact that the option exists implies how the democratic party is not willing to select candidates based solely on the will of the people. I think the sheer existence of supers is a midfle finger to democracy.

+1 to that. This sounds nuts to me that superdelegates even exist. I know they've only pledged, not committed their votes, but what they could do, undermines the whole democratic process.
 
DOMA was a law that prevented states from recognizing marriages performed in other states and defined marriage as being between a man and a woman

He voted against it

There is a huge difference between that and flatly stating that you are against gay marriage as Clinton repeatedly did until 2013

Sanders has been far ahead of the vast majority of politicians' treatment of gay people for years and years, that's for sure, but until 2009 he was fine with individual states deciding that marriage was not an option for anyone who wasn't heterosexual. Then he turns around in 2016 and says that he's been pro gay marriage for decades. Not for gay people who lived in less liberal states he wasn't.

His vote against DOMA shows that he was against the federal government deciding that states couldn't allow gay marriage but he never signaled that he'd approve of a law or a ruling forcing states to allow gay marriage. In fact he made statements which indicate that he believed the federal government should have no say in what a state defined marriage as.
 
+1 to that. This sounds nuts to me that superdelegates even exist. I know they've only pledged, not committed their votes, but what they could do, undermines the whole democratic process.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS YOU ARE VOTING FOR WHO IN WHAT AMOUNTS TO A CORPORATE ORGANIZATION IS TO GAIN THAT ORGANIZATIONS FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO BECOME PRESIDENT.

God.
 
Clintons... both of them.. have been networking and cultivating personal friendships with many influential people for a very long time.

The rest of it I understand, but I disagree with "oh you're friends you can't vote for them." TBH I like my politicians to be shrewd politicians, at the very least.

I'm not saying that friends of Hilary Clinton shouldn't be allowed to be superdelegates, and of course they'll probably share a lot of the same opinions on policy if they are close, and so they'll choose her because that policy is similar. It just seems silly to treat that friendship as a reason that is okay to disregard the opinion of the people you represent, which I'm not sure these superdelegates are even doing or promoting, but the article seems to imply (i.e. such and such and is being harassed online for not supporting Bernie despite having been friends with the Clintons since the 70s).

EDIT: I think I mostly misunderstood the point the article was making. The superdelegate is being told that Hilary is a terrible person by random people, which is a silly thing for a random person to tell anyone who's been friends with that person for over 50 years, as though it'd be informing you.
 
I'm not saying that friends of Hilary Clinton shouldn't be allowed to be superdelegates, and of course they'll probably share a lot of the same opinions on policy if they are close, and so they'll choose her because that policy is similar. It just seems silly to treat that friendship as a reason that is okay to disregard the opinion of the people you represent, which I'm not sure these superdelegates are even doing or promoting, but the article seems to imply (i.e. such and such and is being harassed online for not supporting Bernie despite having been friends with the Clintons since the 70s).

The point is that they represent the interest of the party and not the state. If they had to vote the same way the state did there'd be no point to having them.
 
The GOP would sell their base's souls for a superdelegate system right about now.

People just like to try to latch on to whatever conspiracy is convenient when they are losing. Supers will always go with the will of the people, unless there is a Trump-like situation on the left, which is hard to even imagine happening.
 
Oh please. The same rhetoric is used by liberals when a state whose majority demographic is poor, uneducated whites (who would very much benefit from government programs) vote for republican candidates who would stifle government funding for programs under their policy. It's not necessarily used against minorities/oppressed groups exclusively, its a phrase meant to describe anyone who might not recognize the potential economic benefit they could receive under a candidate's planned policy.

The intent of the phrase is not to come off as racist. I do think the rhetoric of "that candidate is what's best for you" is problematic in that it indicates a sort of "I know better and you should listen to me, please" without providing much substance for the argument as to why that candidate is best much of the time. In cases where that substance is provided, I think the "what's best for you" bit is obviously a little more valid and justified. Using it willy nilly is going to build ire amongst the people you're disparaging, as seen by the portion of black liberals who are hesitant to support Bernie because his supporters seem so hesitant to view blacks who don't vote for Bernie/vote for Hillary over him as a group of intelligent individuals. But let's not pretend that that phrase is intended to specifically make blacks feel bad. It's intended to make anyone who doesn't agree with Berns feel bad. I don't think it's a good strategy, but it's certainly not a racist strategy, not as far as I've seen, anyway. It beats up all demographics equally assuming they don't agree with Bernie supporters. ;) You might think that it occurs to blacks more than other groups (and that its code to refer to blacks in a racist manner) because that's your lived experience, and that's certainly valid, but my own personal experience tells me my liberal friends use it against my white self to disparage me for my Bernie skepticism. The phrase seems to be demographic-blind.
Horseshit. That's exactly what it is. It's a poorly-coded dog whistle that's been employed by Sanders supporters online non-stop against minorities (read: black) since BLM/NetRoots last year. We've seen it here - and banned for it, not enough IMO - and across the net and nobody is fooled by the handwaving. Hell, I made a snarky comment after the South Carolina primaries about blacks voting against their self-interest and was immediately RT'd and liked by a bunch of Sanders supporters. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so goddamn predictable.

If there was a more blatant example of Ice Cube's, "no matter how much you want to switch, here's what they really think about you" than that night, I haven't seen it.
 
BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS YOU ARE VOTING FOR WHO IN WHAT AMOUNTS TO A CORPORATE ORGANIZATION IS TO GAIN THAT ORGANIZATIONS FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO BECOME PRESIDENT.

God.

To add to that:

It's an emergency panic button. A failsafe should, say, a Trump somehow make it through.

The idea is that the members of the party choose who they want

If the winner is political poison for the party the super delegates can hit the button. There are multiple delegates so no one person can just decide "nope".

They represent a little under 1/9th of the total number of delegates so that even if they vote in unison they can't override a candidate backed by a a decent majority.
 
Horseshit. That's exactly what it is. It's a poorly-coded dog whistle that's been employed by Sanders supporters online non-stop against minorities (read: black) since BLM/NetRoots last year. We've seen it here - and banned for it, not enough IMO - and across the net and nobody is fooled by the handwaving. Hell, I made a snarky comment after the South Carolina primaries about blacks voting against their self-interest and was immediately RT'd and liked by a bunch of Sanders supporters. It would have been laughable if it wasn't so goddamn predictable.

If there was a more blatant example of Ice Cube's, "no matter how much you want to switch, here's what they really think about you" than that night, I haven't seen it.

The truthbombs being dropped right now.
 
I sincerely hope that no one is gay and also supports the Senator who gave this speech before the Senate in 2004 and whose husband signed DOMA into law in 1996.

The whole point is that neither are exemplars to be held up, they're both shitty. It just so happens that their opponents on the other side are even shittier.

I'm on record as thinking Hillary is going to be an awful president. But she's GOING to be president.
 
People just like to try to latch on to whatever conspiracy is convenient when they are losing. Supers will always go with the will of the people...
What? That's simply not true. It's not some wacky conspiracy theory. Supers will side with whoever they themselves decide to back. In many cases they will side with the will of the people because it can be in their best interests to do so. They don't have to though and often they go against the people they represent. That's fair within the rules of the current system and the way it works. The issue (that I have at least) is the way it works to begin with is what's unfair about it. If these superdelegates want a voice they should go out and place their single vote just like you and I. That's fair imo.
 
The whole point is that neither are exemplars to be held up, they're both shitty. It just so happens that their opponents on the other side are even shittier.

I'm on record as thinking Hillary is going to be an awful president. But she's GOING to be president.

But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.
 
What? That's simply not true. It's not some wacky conspiracy theory. Supers will side with whoever they themselves decide to back. In many cases they will side with the will of the people because it can be in their best interests to do so. They don't have to though and often they go against the people they represent.

When's the last time they went against the will of the people?

But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

He didn't put the work in that's why.
 
What? That's simply not true. It's not some wacky conspiracy theory. Supers will side with whoever they themselves decide to back. In many cases they will side with the will of the people because it can be in their best interests to do so. They don't have to though and often they go against the people they represent.

They represent the party.

But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

Because not everyone believes he's a better option you ideological egotist.
 
Nope. He saw it as a states' rights issue and refused to support gay marriage until 2009.

I actually appreciate Clinton's triangulated non-support more than Sanders (they're both disappointing); I feel his non-support was actually more for ideological reasons (and a problem with ideologues who rigidly adhere to procedural principles vs outcomes), while I feel both of the Clintons were trying (with mixed results) to advance liberal policies in a palatable manner without appearing to rock the boat. Few US Senators or presidents were the heroes we deserved however.
 
Why is Hilary better than Sanders for minorities?

Sander's state has One of the highest black incarceration rates in the country (2 percent of the population, 10 percent of the prison population) and when black leaders in his state tried to speak with him on this issue, he turned them down. His fellow senator did not.

Say what you will about Hilary, if nothing else she'll at least gladhand.

So you're saying being an Independent Congressman and Senator for decades doesn't count as 'putting the work in'? Only registered Democratic Congressman and Senators count?

His campaign had no ground game. He put in no effort In the south. When he lost a state he wrote it off and pulled the fuck out.

He didn't put in the work.
 
But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

This may surprise and upset your worldview, but not everyone believes Bernie is a better choice than Hillary.
 
Well, those people typically help and contribute fellow democratic candidates get elected and further the part's goals, aims, and voting block.

Sanders isnt even doing that now.

Ironic coming from the campaign whose supporters claim that the Democratic voters in the South don't count.
 
But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

Not everybody agrees that Bernie is a better option, and there are a lot of easy understand reasons why. I'm just going to copy what I posted in another thread.

Even though I'm personally far left on the political spectrum, and called myself a socialist long before Sanders ever ran for president, I never got on board the Sanders hype train, as it became apparent almost immediately that he was a demagogue, with no realistic plan of ever implementing a single policy.

I saw how hard it was for the Democrats to pass Obama's healthcare bill, how it was almost derailed by Ted Kennedy's passing. 59 seats in the Senate, and control of the House was not enough to pass more than a centrist Healthcare bill. How do you expect me to believe that you will get single payer healthcare passed? I'm not an idiot, Bernie. Don't bullshit me.

He has done nothing to build the movement that would be needed nationwide to elect a Democratic house and senate, that is how you get things passed. Not talk of "revolution."

This is his plan to get his policies passed.

What we do is you put an issue before Congress, let’s just use free tuition at public colleges and universities, and that vote is going to take place on November 8 ... whatever it may be. We tell millions and millions of people, young people and their parents, there is going to be a vote ... half the people don’t know what’s going on ... but we tell them when the vote is, maybe we welcome a million young people to Washington, D.C. to say hello to their members of Congress. Maybe we have the telephones and the e-mails flying all over the place so that everybody in America will know how their representative is voting. [...]

And then Republicans are going to have to make a decision. Then they’re going to have to make a decision. You know, when thousands of young people in their district are saying, “You vote against this, you’re out of your job, because we know what’s going on.” So this gets back to what a political revolution is about, is bringing people in touch with the Congress, not having that huge wall. That’s how you bring about change.​

TLDR: Get people to post on facebook to fly down to Washington DC and threaten their congressmen.
 
But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

Hillary has better policies than Bernie, better capabilities than Bernie, and will be a better president than Bernie. That's why I support her.
 
Well, those people typically help and contribute fellow democratic candidates get elected and further the part's goals, aims, and voting block.

Sanders isnt even doing that now.

This is just an excuse to not like him now though. Even if he reversed course and suddenly decided he would help with the downticket races, the Hillary supporters would just find a new reason to not like him.
 
So you're saying being an Independent Congressman and Senator for decades doesn't count as 'putting the work in'? Only registered Democratic Congressman and Senators count?

Out of curiosity, what work would that be?

No, I'm saying he didn't court the constituencies he needed to win. He just showed up and expected people to vote for him. Kerry, Obama, the Clintons, all made sure they were courting the votes they needed well in advance of an actual run by hitting on, and helping with, issues those communities cared about. Why do you think the African-American vote has been so solidly behind Clinton? Or the Hispanic vote? That doesn't happen overnight. Those communities were essentially invisible to Bernie before this election, sure he'd give a speech on the floor of the House or Senate, but that doesn't counter getting in the trenches and being on the ground.

If you want people to vote for you they have to know you've got their back, they have to see you having their back. Bernie didn't do that so he's losing. A good speech isn't enough, you gotta be on the ground.
 
So you're saying being an Independent Congressman and Senator for decades doesn't count as 'putting the work in'? Only registered Democratic Congressman and Senators count?

He has no allies in congress despite being there for two decades and has done minimal work with minorities, the base of the Democratic party.
 
But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

That's not why he didn't reach Obama levels of support. It's because his ground game was weak and he didn't become a democrat until last year. If he had been working on this presidential run for years and made real inroads into the party instead of showing up and calling everyone establishment he could have pulled it off.
 
There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008.
Except that Bernie doesn't have the votes. The reason why Bernie can't score an upset win much like Obama did is because the majority of Democratic voters prefer Hillary to Sanders. And, while a more knowledgeable person would probably be able to expound further, Bernie's appeal is extremely narrow when compared to Obama's coalition building which captured younger voters and minorities.

Also, it's not true that Sanders had no ground game in heavily minority states. It just sucked.
 
But WHY? Why is she GOING to be President? Why were people racing to embrace Hillary, I mean just look at how HillGAF behaves, when they had a better option? There was no reason why Bernie couldn't have had the same upset in 2016 that Obama did in 2008. Resistance would not have been futile if people weren't in such a hurry to be assimilated by the Borg Queen for some unfathomable goddamned reason.

Because I think that Hillary is the better candidate and will be a better president than Bernie. I also think he will get annihilated in the general election if he made it.

Hillary has better policies than Bernie, better capabilities than Bernie, and will be a better president than Bernie. That's why I support her.

and what he said.
 
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