slightconfuse
Banned
How did lex know that Bruce and Clark were heroes?
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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
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Figured it out off-screen, because fuck plot.
What bothered me on my third watch was how did WW know Bruce Wayne was Batman?
And it's clear in the movie that Luthor has known Batman's identity for 18 months maybe even before and knew Superman's identity well in advance too.
Where does the dceu eveb go from here? Your biggest villain knows all of your identities. How do you recover from that?
Ocarina_117
Banned
Did he know that Bruce was Batman? Been a few weeks since I watched the movie so I don't recall.
I thought he learned about Clark Kent from accessing the kryptonian ship.
slightconfuse
Banned
He admired to sending those checks to Bruce
Also was that flash or Orion after the dream sequence?
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING, WRONG!
He sends both Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne packages meant to build animosity towards each-other, with the same red writing.
He sends Bruce Wayne the returned cheques, and he sends Clark Kent images of Batman's branded victims.
Definitely knew who Batman was.
At the party he gave Bruce a wink wink nudge about his R&D up to all sorts of bad stuff.
He was the one who was sending Bruce those "you failed your family" letters in order to coax him into fighting Superman. Once Batman took the bait and the signal was lit, he set forth his motion to kill Superman or expose him.
Luther's plan was:
Plan A:
Have Batman and Superman fight and hopefully Batman kills Superman.
Plan B:
Superman kills Batman instead and he gets to expose Superman as a fraud (a god that is all powerful but not all good)
Plan C: Plan A and Plan B fail, Doomsday is made to kill Superman.
Issue is that his plan C was well in motion and if Batman killed Superman then Doomsday might have been unleashed. It's possible that Luthor could've prevented the Genesis in time but in the state that he was in it didn't seem likely.
In the Empire podcast link I posted in one of the other threads (the one where he says that heroes lose credibility if they have conversations in costume) Snyder also said he didn't like the idea of secret identities. He finds the concept "ridiculous", so that Lex knowing them beforehand is not a big deal.
This is how I imagine how it will be treated from now on, considering he's setting the basics of that. Clark is dead, literally speaking. I imagine that facet is simply not coming back.
Why is he doing these movies again?
He has an over arching vision of the universe that other directors under WB's salary don't.
Snyder had thought of the storyline of JL part 1 and part 2 before even starting on BvS. Hell even the background story for Batman is made by Snyder (with the dead Robin and blown up Wayne manor). And WB lapped it up because they saw the Avengers/MCU moola.
Snyder has a silver tongue, I am 100% convinced on this. He convinced WB of the following despite getting contention over it:
*Knightmare sequence which was a holdover from the Goyer version of the script. If Snyder had his way completely then there would be more and longer sequences. Hell there is even one from Superman's perspective.
*Convinced suits to kill off Superman by telling them "don't worry guys I will be using this to set up JL!". Even Nolan was against this until he got won over by Snyder.
*Convinced them Superman needed to kill Zod in MoS.
*Convinced them on the Batman manslaughter angle.
*Somehow got them to sign off on making a movie with so many characters, comic book plots and JL references.
*Originally BvS was supposed to be just MOS2. When they were coming up with villains for Superman Snyder seriously said "what about Batman?" Hence we got BVS and after that Snyder just kept throwing more and more stuff in it.
Hopefully he won't be doing much more convincing in the wake of BvS. The thing is, where does this leave Superman in terms of a sequel? What is a Superman movie without Clark? Y'know...the person he was raised as and the name he answers to? Does he go back to walking the Earth like Caine from Kung fu? What the hell was the point of even going through the whole Daily Planet charade? Why waste time setting his character up like that just to pull the carpet from beneath the audience in the very next movie? This whole 'roadmap' is a Ill-conceived mess. I guess this means we won't be getting another Superman solo at least for the foreseeable future.
PaleFolklore
Member
I finally got around to seeing this and it was such a bore. I enjoyed what we saw of Wonder Woman though. She was easily the best part of it and totally outclassed both Batguy and Captain Underpants
The best part is when a flunky tugs on batman cape, pulling him over. Batman recovers well but it was nice to see choreography that adds little things like that.
Technosteve
Banned
I just saw the movie, where is the thread to shit on snyder for shitting on superman from a great height.
Will the Thrill
Banned
So Idk why this came back into my brain all of sudden and idk if someone has pointed this out, but I distinctly remember the parts with the nuke/doomsday (Maybe slightly earlier than that) randomly jumping up in framerate (from like 24-48 or whatever) for no apparent reason. Then they went back to normal. Am I crazy/was my theater just fucking up or did that actually happen.
If so, jesus this movie continues to be a wreck in SO many ways
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Sure.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I have not heard anybody notice anything of the sort nor did I notice it myself.
This is it.
Will the Thrill
Banned
Ah ok, must of been my theater then. It was super jarring and out of place.
Watched it today. I liked it.
Its certainly different that what I expected, but I was there to have fun and an open mind and liked what was shown to me. Lex was such an oddity, like he was mixed with the Joker, something that felt strange, but it was still entertaining.
Oh and that scene at the beginning with Bruce floating with the bats was AMAZING, I couldn't help but laugh out loud, it set the tone for the whole movie, it made me realize this was going to be a dumb movie with hilarious visuals. There is a scene where a fucking horse walked past Bruce. And later on when Lois decides to throw the spear under the water. So many moments like this, the movie is great to watch if you are there to have fun with it.
Its certainly different that what I expected, but I was there to have fun and an open mind and liked what was shown to me. Lex was such an oddity, like he was mixed with the Joker, something that felt strange, but it was still entertaining.
Oh and that scene at the beginning with Bruce floating with the bats was AMAZING, I couldn't help but laugh out loud, it set the tone for the whole movie, it made me realize this was going to be a dumb movie with hilarious visuals. There is a scene where a fucking horse walked past Bruce. And later on when Lois decides to throw the spear under the water. So many moments like this, the movie is great to watch if you are there to have fun with it.
Salva, I think the movie must have been different for its Mexico release. Please explain.
He had Jimmy Olsen shot in the head in the first few moments of the movie.
Just did, check my edit.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Yeah but I mean it could have been worse. Superman could have died in Lois' arms and said "I love you" to transfer his life essence into her giving her a virgin birth. The baby would then grow up at an extreme rate to become the reincarnated Superman with a mullet.
Watched it in English with subs, I don't know if the cut is different in any way.
I watched it yesterday and I thought it was an okay movie, I did like it. Batman and Wonder Woman were the best characters. I just love how vicious and brutal Batman is. Too bad I watched that one trailer that spoiled the entire movie so I'm gonna stop doing that and read comments before watching superhero / DC trailers again.
The beginning was great, Bruce's point of view worked very well and I could see why he was so angry with Superman. Around the introduction of Lex the pacing took a weird turn. Weird cuts, suddenly Batman has his suit and I couldn't understand what Lex's plan was exactly. You could just feel a lot of stuff was cut and I hope the extended version can fix that. The way the fight was resolved was kinda quick. 'Martha' probably humanized Bats a bit and saw Superman as just a guy saving his mom. I did not get that during the movie though so I felt it was like; 'Hey, my mom was also named Martha!'.
Another nitpicky thing was the constant need for Lois Lane. She has no business going to where the fight happens. She throws the spear in a well and then tries to get it out, gets in trouble and Supes has to come in to save her. She's just there and does nothing interesting. If you just leave the damn spear where it is and not include Lois Lane it would have been better.
I still feel Snyder should have some involvement in the next movies. More as a visual consultant/director than a full on director. Some of the images he produces are gorgeous.
Overall an okay movie with a lot of pacing issues and weird decisions. This is probably my favorite Batman portrayal. That fight scene in the warehouse was straight up brutal and some stuff came straight out of the Arkham games. I loved that.
EDIT: I also felt the scene where WW watches little videoclips of the other superhero's a bit out of place. That could've worked way better in a post credit scene.
The beginning was great, Bruce's point of view worked very well and I could see why he was so angry with Superman. Around the introduction of Lex the pacing took a weird turn. Weird cuts, suddenly Batman has his suit and I couldn't understand what Lex's plan was exactly. You could just feel a lot of stuff was cut and I hope the extended version can fix that. The way the fight was resolved was kinda quick. 'Martha' probably humanized Bats a bit and saw Superman as just a guy saving his mom. I did not get that during the movie though so I felt it was like; 'Hey, my mom was also named Martha!'.
Another nitpicky thing was the constant need for Lois Lane. She has no business going to where the fight happens. She throws the spear in a well and then tries to get it out, gets in trouble and Supes has to come in to save her. She's just there and does nothing interesting. If you just leave the damn spear where it is and not include Lois Lane it would have been better.
I still feel Snyder should have some involvement in the next movies. More as a visual consultant/director than a full on director. Some of the images he produces are gorgeous.
Overall an okay movie with a lot of pacing issues and weird decisions. This is probably my favorite Batman portrayal. That fight scene in the warehouse was straight up brutal and some stuff came straight out of the Arkham games. I loved that.
EDIT: I also felt the scene where WW watches little videoclips of the other superhero's a bit out of place. That could've worked way better in a post credit scene.
Samir Sedlar
Member
I went in hopeful yet expecting disappointment, I came out liking the film alot, sure there is alot of problems but over all, it is pretty good.
My biggest grip with the whole movie is the ''Martha" thing, It was one of the most disappointing anti-climatic moments ever, I can understand the whole notion of it, but everything happened WAY too fast to make sense, especially with this new Batman, that scene should have taken longer to reach that point, or even end up without them being all good and buddies.
On the other hand, this new Batman, a broken yet more mature batman who crossed the line and began torturing criminals is one hell of a take on the character, I really love it and it got me really hyped for his solo movie, assuming they keep him the same brutal batman portrayed in BvsS. Still they remained true to Batman as a mastermind tactician in how he fights superman and how he even fight the thugs with all of his baty tools.
My biggest grip with the whole movie is the ''Martha" thing, It was one of the most disappointing anti-climatic moments ever, I can understand the whole notion of it, but everything happened WAY too fast to make sense, especially with this new Batman, that scene should have taken longer to reach that point, or even end up without them being all good and buddies.
On the other hand, this new Batman, a broken yet more mature batman who crossed the line and began torturing criminals is one hell of a take on the character, I really love it and it got me really hyped for his solo movie, assuming they keep him the same brutal batman portrayed in BvsS. Still they remained true to Batman as a mastermind tactician in how he fights superman and how he even fight the thugs with all of his baty tools.
JimiNutz
Banned
My biggest problem with the Batman scene in the warehouse is that they showed most of the fight in the fucking trailer!
Batman clearing warehouse was the only good fight scene in the movie and the best bits were already shown before the film even came out.
Final fight scene with Doomsday is the most boring superhero fight in a long time. Can't really remember one single memorable or cool part of that fight.
Batman clearing warehouse was the only good fight scene in the movie and the best bits were already shown before the film even came out.
Final fight scene with Doomsday is the most boring superhero fight in a long time. Can't really remember one single memorable or cool part of that fight.
It was especially bad since it was insert, if I remember correctly, right after Superman flew off to fight Batman. You expect next scene to finally be the confrontation between the two but nope, let's watch Wonder Woman reading an e-mail very slowly and then watching few random clips of characters that have nothing to do with what's going on in the movie. Bored yet? Ok, so let's get back to that fight!
There were so many better ways to do the scene (a mid-credit scene would be perfect).
Same with the Knightmare and the Flash from future scene. They made no sense in the context, lead nowhere, were never referenced - they were just there. For an easter eggs, they were too long and confusing. As bad as Age of Ultron was with its foreshadowings for future films, at least there was some context and reason for them to be in the movie. There were none in BvS.
And I admit, I didn't even know that the guy from the future was Flash until I read about it after seeing the movie. I'm not that big comic book nerd, but I know a thing or two about DC universe and various storylines, but the scene caught me by surprise and I didn't realize what's going on. :|
I would really like to see a Director's Cut of the movie, because it's clear a lot of things were cut from it (the Communion scene from the Extended Cut at least explains Luthor's weird babbling at the end) or forced to be inserted (the reading e-mail scene, ugh).
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Not the devil, but I honestly can't think of a more incompetent director currently getting high profile work/properties. It's crazy what he gets to work on.
thecouncil
Banned
Wonder Woman showed up to a guitar riff and then smirked a couple times.
It was amazing and if you don't remember it, that's your issue, not the movies!
Nice hyperbole but Snyder has gone out his way to garner every bit criticism. He has demonstrated his ineptitude in telling a coherent story and has undermined what makes these characters compelling at almost every turn. 2x at this point. It's not just a vocal minority of Internet forum posters. The receipts are in and both movie goers and critics are just not interested in what Snyder is selling.
Schweinehund
Member
I'm surprised at how invested people are on shitting in this movie. I think ya'll have outposted me over a 2 year gap between the community threads for the DCEU in a manner of 2 weeks.
No, lmao.
No, lmao.
Except he only knows about Kryptonians and it's very plausible he thought she was one.
But if Bruce thought Diana was a Kryptonian why wasn't Bruce trying to kill her? Bruce was trying to kill Superman despite him saving the city, why wouldn't Bruce have killing one of the Kryptonians as even higher priority?
You don't remember the part where Wonder Woman finds a rope and ties it around Doomsday? Oh wait, that was the magical lasso they never established she had? Whatever.
The real question is, doesn't she own an invisible jet too? Why does she fly coach then?
SJRB
Gold Member
Just because Bruce sent Diana an e-mail doesn't mean he knows her entire backstory. All he knows is she's been around for 100 years, and Lex Luthor has a photo with a hidden soundfile that plays crazy drums when you open the photo.
You seem awfully invested in all of this. What's your story anyway?
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
So, by then, Batman knows exactly who Wondy is rolling with and her motivations? Because of one email? She is a superhuman. Supes is a superhuman. Thus the line.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
But what about her metal arm things or whatever they are. Those were never established and I have no idea what they do. Are they magic? Are they adamantium?
He knows she's been around for 100 years. If he assumed she was Kryptonian he certainly didn't seem as hostile towards her as he was towards Superman. But I guess that isn't a plot-hole, because Batman is quite the dunderhead in this film.
And as for 'my story', I'm a fan of DC comics. I grew up on the animated shows. Batman v Superman being a mess of a movie is incomprehensibly disappointing for me.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Why would he assume she is Kryptonian? Why would he be hostile towards her? She wasn't involved in leveling Wayne buildings. He asked Supes because she is a superhuman like him, maybe figured there was a connection somehow. That's how I took it, anyway.
I mean, I guess. Maybe he found out she had lived 100 years without changing and just thought "Heh, that's cute. I won't investigate that".
Anyway, I'm over-analysing what was just a bad attempt at a light moment in the film. Maybe it is just Batman assuming they are in allegiance because she has powers. World's Greatest Detective.
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