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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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I mean, I guess. Maybe he found out she had lived 100 years without changing and just thought "Heh, that's cute. I won't investigate that".

Anyway, I'm over-analysing what was just a bad attempt at a light moment in the film. Maybe it is just Batman assuming they are in allegiance because she has powers. World's Greatest Detective.


I mean, does he have to investigate it in a movie already filled with editing issues and an almost 3 hour run time? Probably not. But I understand--and agree--with your general point: there has still been no representative Batman on screen.
 
I'm surprised at how invested people are on shitting in this movie. I think ya'll have outposted me over a 2 year gap between the community threads for the DCEU in a manner of 2 weeks.



No, lmao.

People are pissed, disappointed and insulted, that they have wasted their time and money on a very bad movie. Especially a movie that has been in production for 3 years.

There's nothing surprising.
 
People are pissed, disappointed and insulted, that they have wasted their time and money on a very bad movie. Especially a movie that has been in production for 3 years.

There's nothing surprising.

Me and my family enjoyed it. My disappointment stems from pacing issues and Superman's overall portrayal. But I do find the prospect of the extended universe exciting for sure, especially with Darkseid in play.
 
People are pissed, disappointed and insulted, that they have wasted their time and money on a very bad movie. Especially a movie that has been in production for 3 years.

There's nothing surprising.

How do you figure out the wall of shame? Maybe it's just me but I don't recall any of these faces in the community threads for the movie. Weird to have so much time invested but not interested in talking about the movie or where the universe could go.
 
Question, were doomsday's powers changed for the movie? I don't know the character, but he looked like he had Extremis from Iron Man 3 along with being powered up with nukes like Nuclear Man from Superman 4.

And why did they have to power him up right at the beginning of the fight? You establish the first form as s threat, have it almost defeated, THEN power it up.
 
Question, were doomsday's powers changed for the movie? I don't know the character, but he looked like he had Extremis from Iron Man 3 along with being powered up with nukes like Nuclear Man from Superman 4.

And why did they have to power him up right at the beginning of the fight? You establish the first form as s threat, have it almost defeated, THEN power it up.

The supernova thing is something doomsday doesn't traditionally do but they created it was a power for Superman just recently, and I think Supergirl has done something like it in the past.

Doomsday does regenerate, but he doesn't regenerate spikes, he's just naturally spikier.

I don't know why they went with this approach, I wanted muh rockbeard.
 
Saw it yesterday, it really isn't half as bad as people make it out to be and I say that as someone that hated Man of Steel and is generally tired of superhero movies and cinematic universes. Yes, there's plenty wrong with it and the second half is kind of a huge mess, but I really liked how Batman was portrayed in this movie. Really looking forward to the standalone Affleck Batman, hope it doesn't get wrecked in the wake of BvS kind-of-sort-of bombing.
 
How do you figure out the wall of shame? Maybe it's just me but I don't recall any of these faces in the community threads for the movie. Weird to have so much time invested but not interested in talking about the movie or where the universe could go.
This universe can get the Infinite Crisis treatment for all I care. Lord knows having Superboy punch this universe's reality in the face would be more interesting at least.

Legit curious... Does anyone think we'll EVER get a Batman on screen that is both the actual "World's Greatest Detective" and one that doesn't murder/manslaughter his way to the credits? I still can't believe the Clooney version is the only one that didn't take lives... (Outside of Mask of The Phantasm, aka the actual best Batman).

I've given up hope of ever getting a joyous, inspirational, and optimistic Superman though... They've been trying to ruin Superman longer than I've been alive, it seems, and all those canned Superman projects continue to blow my mind.
 
How do you figure out the wall of shame? Maybe it's just me but I don't recall any of these faces in the community threads for the movie. Weird to have so much time invested but not interested in talking about the movie or where the universe could go.

They might not want to be in the community threads because of various reasons, such as being in a media blackout. Some people may just decided to impulse watch it when they have nothing else to do.
 
How do you figure out the wall of shame? Maybe it's just me but I don't recall any of these faces in the community threads for the movie. Weird to have so much time invested but not interested in talking about the movie or where the universe could go.

I can only speak for myself but:

This movie kinda goes beyond being boring into the "wow, I can't believe how bad it is" territory. I never really participate in community threads and certainly not for this one given that I disliked MoS. However I still went to see the movie because I expected WB and Snyder to learn from MoS and deliver a better movie then that atleast and something competent to get me hyped for the DC Universe.

And somehow they didn't. It's all a giant mess. So now, I might as well get some enjoyment from how big of a mess it is.
 
I'm surprised at how invested people are on shitting in this movie. I think ya'll have outposted me over a 2 year gap between the community threads for the DCEU in a manner of 2 weeks.



No, lmao.

lol, I have no idea what the hell happened in my theater then. Either that or I somehow glimpsed into some alternate reality where the film was at a higher frame rate.
 
Wonder Woman showed up to a guitar riff and then smirked a couple times.
It was amazing and if you don't remember it, that's your issue, not the movies!

That smirk when Doomsday hit her was soo good. Little things like that are great. You just knew she was ready and was ready to fuck shit up.
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Also, I now know not to believe the incredible exaggerated reactions on GAF and other sites telling how terrible and how much of a disaster this movie and probably future movies are.
 
I think people are right that it isn't as bad as some people would have you believe. Not as a film, at least (though it is poor, considering things like editing and pacing and character development and story).

But man do I hate it. I hate it for the opportunities it spoiled (being the first Batman/Superman film, correcting Man of Steel's wrongs, to name a few). I hate it for taking iconic comic book moments and characters, and still managing to shit the bed. This is a film that took from The Dark Knight Returns, had Batman and Superman, Lex Luthor and Doomsday, and does the Death of Superman, and manages to handle all of those things poorly. It leaves "how disappointing" territory and enters "how fucking dare you", for me. How can you take those things on, all of those things, and have no understanding of what makes them work?

Maybe that helps contextualize the beating this film is getting, for some people.
 
This seals it.

Dude just loves images of musclebound dudes hitting each other in cool ways.

He is the Rob Liefeld of cinema. A guy who loves something so dearly, yet clearly demonstrates that he doesn't understand it at all.

It's hardly an unheard of opinion. Secret identities and the drama they create is a part of the tradition, but at the same time, not always what I'd call a good thing.
 
I think people are right that it isn't as bad as some people would have you believe. Not as a film, at least (though it is poor, considering things like editing and pacing and character development and story).

But man do I hate it. I hate it for the opportunities it spoiled (being the first Batman/Superman film, correcting Man of Steel's wrongs, to name a few). I hate it for taking iconic comic book moments and characters, and still managing to shit the bed. This is a film that took from The Dark Knight Returns, had Batman and Superman, Lex Luthor and Doomsday, and does the Death of Superman, and manages to handle all of those things poorly. It leaves "how disappointing" territory and enters "how fucking dare you", for me. How can you take those things on, all of those things, and have no understanding of what makes them work?

Maybe that helps contextualize the beating this film is getting, for some people.

Yeah, that's a good way to summarize everything.

I was skeptical about this since the beginning, because I did NOT think that TDKR, with it's psycho-miller-batman, was the right direction to go in. Partially it was because of sheer predictability. Boy, I wonder how Batman will find a way to stand up against Superman, oh it turned out to be kryptonite, who would have guessed. Similarly, I called some kind of monster coming up to be the climax as well, it was just a matter of what Lex would make. Cyborg Superman, Doomsday, Parasite, Metallo,....okay, it's Doomsday. Without ever seeing the movie, I could predict step by step what it would be, and the pieces aligned as it went along.

But more than anything, I just didn't want to see Psycho-Miller-Batman. I admitted to the open possibility that it might have been done right at the time. I think TDKR is a well written comic. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. Other than Adam West goofy Batman, the hardass, gruff, miller Batman is the least interesting Batman of them all for me. He's only badass on the most shallow, surface level, and it's always the moments of Batman struggling with humanity and pain that made him compelling to me.

And starting the movie off with Batman and Superman being antagonistic was the clearest red flag for me. The strength of Batman fighting Superman is that none of them want to fight. That's why you generally get plot devices like mind control to justify them going at it, because for the most part, they're friends, and friends fighting is far more compelling narratively than two meatheads going at it out of hate. Civil War understands this. When BvS trailers were showing, they showed Batman threating Superman with the "You will bleed" line. Civil War, on the other hand, has Cap apologizing to Tony for needing to fight, because Bucky is his friend, while Tony replies in a hurt voice "So was I." That is fucking awesome. That is actual drama. I care about their conflict because they care about each other. With BvS, especially since I know TDKR is the inspiration, their conflict would be based on meanness and insecurity and pointless anger.

But all that might have worked if they had done it right. I might have never been able to love it, but I could have atleast respected the craft of it, if it was done right. And I do, to the parts that were done right. Costumes look nice, action is nice, I like that we finally have Wonder Woman on screen. But it failed on every level that mattered. And badly.
 
Why would he assume she is Kryptonian? Why would he be hostile towards her? She wasn't involved in leveling Wayne buildings. He asked Supes because she is a superhuman like him, maybe figured there was a connection somehow. That's how I took it, anyway.

She has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there’s even a one percent chance that she is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty!
 
He doesn't know that, tho. Literally all he knows is that she's apparently been around since WWI.

He doesn't know that she has the potential to do tremendous amounts of damage? She's in Luthor's MetaHuman database. Obviously, it means she's strong. Batman in this movie also isn't above making large jumps to conclusions regarding superbeings.
 
He doesn't know that she has the potential to do tremendous amounts of damage? She's in Luthor's MetaHuman database. Obviously, it means she's strong. Batman in this movie also isn't above making large jumps to conclusions regarding superbeings.

It means she's different. Cyborg's not doing much damage in his clip.
 
Just saw it. Not as bad as I expected, although Lois as the neverending damsel and her search for the spear of destiny drove me mad. Oh, and Eisenber trying to channel Heath Ledger instead of Gene Hackman was pretty horrible too. Also felt really weird seeing Clark's coffin with the Superman symbol. Suppose going forward that is the end of Clark Kent even when Supes comes back. Oh Clark we hardly knew ye.
 
Just saw it. Not as bad as I expected, although Lois as the neverending damsel and her search for the spear of destiny drove me mad. Oh, and Eisenber trying to channel Heath Ledger instead of Gene Hackman was pretty horrible too. Also felt really weird seeing Clark's coffin with the Superman symbol. Suppose going forward that is the end of Clark Kent even when Supes comes back. Oh Clark we hardly knew ye.

I only saw it once on release weekend, but wasn't that Superman's coffin? The one from the military service? Clark's was unadorned, IIRC.
 
It means she's different. Cyborg's not doing much damage in his clip.

Does that matter? The pretense in the movie in terms of the underlying conflict Batman has with Superman is that Superman is so strong that he could pose a threat to the safety of humanity. Wouldn't that same line of thinking also apply to most of the rest of the potential Justice League members?
 
Does that matter? The pretense in the movie in terms of the underlying conflict Batman has with Superman is that Superman is so strong that he could pose a threat to the safety of humanity. Wouldn't that same line of thinking also apply to most of the rest of the potential Justice League members?

I feel like we've already walked down this road.

But, in case we haven't, the central thrust of the movie is that Batman is wrong to be thinking like that, and his attitude is the result of a rationalization he cooks up to justify his actions as being more than his feelings of helplessness from standing in the ruins of Metropolis. It's a delusion. One that breaks by the end of the movie.

I really don't wanna start talking about the movie in this thread though. Not on anything more than a "this happened, that happened" clarification level.

Of course, that's not why he goes up against Superman. It's because Superman, in particular, makes his penis feel tiny.

And this is why.
 
It means she's different. Cyborg's not doing much damage in his clip.

Well, Cyborg looks like he's about to die, but he's fucking the lab up pretty bad with the box and the electricity.

But that's beside the point. The point is that Metahumans, by nature, are empowered individuals. Empowered individuals have the potential to do great harm. If Batman's issue with Superman is him merely having power makes him a threat, there is no reason he shouldn't have put all meta humans on his hitlist.

Of course, that's not why he goes up against Superman. It's because Superman, in particular, makes his penis feel tiny.
 
I feel like we've already walked down this road.

But, in case we haven't, the central thrust of the movie is that Batman is wrong to be thinking like that, and his attitude is the result of a rationalization he cooks up to justify his actions as being more than his feelings of helplessness from standing in the ruins of Metropolis. It's a delusion. One that breaks by the end of the movie.

I really don't wanna start talking about the movie in this thread though. Not on anything more than a "this happened, that happened" clarification level.

Yeah, I know that's his arc, but he hasn't gone through it yet when he starts interacting with Diana. The initial question was "Why wasn't Batman as initially suspicious of Diana as he is of Superman, given that both WW and Superman are really strong beings?". When he finds out about Diana and the rest of the people on file, Batman is still in his "omg super beings potential threat" mode.

He knows she's been around for 100 years. If he assumed she was Kryptonian he certainly didn't seem as hostile towards her as he was towards Superman. But I guess that isn't a plot-hole, because Batman is quite the dunderhead in this film.

Why would he assume she is Kryptonian? Why would he be hostile towards her? She wasn't involved in leveling Wayne buildings. He asked Supes because she is a superhuman like him, maybe figured there was a connection somehow. That's how I took it, anyway.
 
I only saw it once on release weekend, but wasn't that Superman's coffin? The one from the military service? Clark's was unadorned, IIRC.

Hmmm, I suppose that could be the case. The editing made it seem it was Clarks coffin. I need to check again some day.

I also didn't understand Diana's involement. Did she know Lex was planning to use Kryptonian weaponry to make Doomsday (which is why she was at the party and snooping). If so, why was she on the plane back to wherever when Doomsday finally made his appearance? The more I think about it, the less "ok" I am with the plot as a whole.
 
I only saw it once on release weekend, but wasn't that Superman's coffin? The one from the military service? Clark's was unadorned, IIRC.

Right. The military coffin was an empty Superman box and Clark was buried in a plain wooden box.

Hmmm, I suppose that could be the case. The editing made it seem it was Clarks coffin. I need to check again some day.

I also didn't understand Diana's involement. Did she know Lex was planning to use Kryptonian weaponry to make Doomsday (which is why she was at the party and snooping). If so, why was she on the plane back to wherever when Doomsday finally made his appearance? The more I think about it, the less "ok" I am with the plot as a whole.

She was looking for the photo that Lex had, which is why she stole Bruce's hacking device. She didn't know anything about what Lex was planning. I thought she was leaving because Bruce found out her secret.
 
Hmmm, I suppose that could be the case. The editing made it seem it was Clarks coffin. I need to check again some day.

I also didn't understand Diana's involement. Did she know Lex was planning to use Kryptonian weaponry to make Doomsday (which is why she was at the party and snooping). If so, why was she on the plane back to wherever when Doomsday finally made his appearance? The more I think about it, the less "ok" I am with the plot as a whole.

She was looking into Lex because he had that photo. That's pretty much the extent of it, once she gets it back she's on her way out of town and only stops once Doomsday shows up.
 
I feel like we've already walked down this road.

But, in case we haven't, the central thrust of the movie is that Batman is wrong to be thinking like that, and his attitude is the result of a rationalization he cooks up to justify his actions as being more than his feelings of helplessness from standing in the ruins of Metropolis. It's a delusion. One that breaks by the end of the movie.

I really don't wanna start talking about the movie in this thread though. Not on anything more than a "this happened, that happened" clarification level.

And this is why.

While I can understand not wanting to beat a dead horse on what you feel is a persistently unjustified, yet popular stance on the movie, I still have to remark that every indication of their actual interaction with each other indicates that that is precisely what it comes down to. Batman's insecurity. He's acting out in an overly aggressive, overly macho way as a means of reasserting his own ego. It's perfectly legitimate to deride Batman for that, as far as I'm concerned.
 
While I can understand not wanting to beat a dead horse on what you feel is a persistently unjustified, yet popular stance on the movie, I still have to remark that every indication of their actual interaction with each other indicates that that is precisely what it comes down to. Batman's insecurity. He's acting out in an overly aggressive, overly macho way as a means of reasserting his own ego. It's perfectly legitimate to deride Batman for that, as far as I'm concerned.

It's a perfectly unpleasant and condescending way of carrying on a conversation, the increasing presence of such is why I'm trying not to engage anymore.
 
It feels like you're insulting my ability to construct an argument by dismissing everything I say on the issue as "dick measuring."

You didn't write the movie, Poodles(though it would explain a few things). My saying that all Batman does within the movie is dickmeasuring is my interpretation of his character, with a fair amount of supporting evidence.

And while I do see it as something worthy of derision with how Zack Snyder depicted it (because it is done with any lack of self awareness about it's inherent immaturity), it's a legitimate character motive a lot of other times. Hell, Walter White's entire journey was realized from the fact that he felt emasculated in comparison to his brother in law. It's be totally fair to say that Walt's greatest moments were when he was trying to one up someone else with his skills just to sate his ego. He was engaging with dick measuring too, and I don't mean that derisively because the writing was so good in that show.
 
You didn't write the movie, Poodles(though it would explain a few things). My saying that all Batman does within the movie is dickmeasuring is my interpretation of his character, with a fair amount of supporting evidence.

And while I do see it as something worthy of derision with how Zack Snyder depicted it, it's a legitimate character motive a lot of other times. Hell, Walter White's entire journey was realized from the fact that he felt emasculated in comparison to his brother in law. It's be totally fair to say that Walt's greatest moments were when he was trying to one up someone else with his skills just to sate his ego. He was engaging with dick measuring too, and I don't mean that derisively because the writing was so good in that show.

It feels condescending because you basically brush off everything I say on... any part of the movie, really, with a handful of reductions. Dick measuring is one. You're essentially saying "oh, sure, maybe you think that, poodles, but you're very simply wrong and I'm sorry to see that you're so wrong."

It feels very insulting.
 
I find This interpretation of batman interesting, like he is tired of the bullshit and decided that it'd just best to kill the bad guys now instead of sparing them and making it worse
 
It feels condescending because you basically brush off everything I say on... any part of the movie, really, with a handful of reductions.

I say what I say because I feel you enlarge Batman's motivations to greater than what they are.

Your argument, iirc, was that he had 3 motivations. Legacy, Inadequacy and Security. The first two CAN basically be lumped together, because they were essentially saying the same thing: They make Batman feel like he doesn't matter. That's Batman feeling emasculated. Aka, he feels he has a tiny dick. It's really lame and stupid because those notions aren't supported by anything in the movie. And while Batman voices a concern for security through the movie, that's not reflected in his actual fight with superman, who he should have tried to kill as quickly as possible, so it's possible he doesn't feel that Superman is as much a national threat as he says he does.

I disagreed with your assessment and I addressed why I feel your points are overly aggrandized as well as I could and why I feel Batman is truly an immature imbecile whose motivations can truly be boiled down to a pathetic insecurity at the sheer existence of Superman so he makes it his mission to hurt and humiliate him before killing him. This is the character of someone I find worthy of disdain, hence the derisive comment that I feel perfectly encapsulates why Batman is doing what he is doing. But I don't think that reflects on you in any way. And if this disagreement feels condescending to you personally....well, then I don't really know what to tell you. I'm not attacking you, only your argument and the movie itself, which I follow as a rule.
 
She was looking into Lex because he had that photo. That's pretty much the extent of it, once she gets it back she's on her way out of town and only stops once Doomsday shows up.

Aaaaaah ok, that makes sense.

Does it? For the sake of the plot and giving the characters something to do, sure, that would be something to do. However, the photo's already been digitized and likely stored on a backup somewhere too.
 
Does it? For the sake of the plot and giving the characters something to do, sure, that would be something to do. However, the photo's already been digitized and likely stored on a backup somewhere too.

Well, she mentioned not finding what she was after due to the encryption. And later Bruce got past it and sent the photo back to her. It seems pretty cut and dry.

As for a digital photo being a flimsy reason for her to travel across the globe... Especially since it's more than likely already duplicated digitally, that IS a bit silly. But in light of other stranger issues (like Lex blood + Zod DNA = Doomsday) I personally can't really complain about it.
 
Man, what a bad movie. I do disagree with the critics who said that it was boring, though. All the parts that made absolutely no sense were pretty funny to see.
 
Just saw it. Not as bad as I expected, although Lois as the neverending damsel and her search for the spear of destiny drove me mad. Oh, and Eisenber trying to channel Heath Ledger instead of Gene Hackman was pretty horrible too. Also felt really weird seeing Clark's coffin with the Superman symbol. Suppose going forward that is the end of Clark Kent even when Supes comes back. Oh Clark we hardly knew ye.

Clark's coffin didn't have the emblem on it. That was the Superman coffin.
 
I find This interpretation of batman interesting, like he is tired of the bullshit and decided that it'd just best to kill the bad guys now instead of sparing them and making it worse

Yeah I actually really like the older, pissed off, fuck-the-world Batman. His talk with Alfred early on showed that he wasn't even aware of how much he had changed for the worse. Great way to start the movie IMO.

This is why I desperately want a prequel with a Leto Joker where Batman's world gets rocked and it turns him into that psycho.
 
Honestly I view it less as him all out murdering fools, but moreso he no longer cares enough to ensure their safety. Hes getting rid of whatever is in his way, no matter what, but at the same time, you still won't see him carrying a hand gun and popping criminals in the head.
 
Most importantly, how the hell is Clark Kent still employed? He's not even qualified to be an intern but he got handed a job out of nowhere, disappears for days, and doesn't do any work when he does bother to show up to the office.
 
Well, she mentioned not finding what she was after due to the encryption. And later Bruce got past it and sent the photo back to her. It seems pretty cut and dry.

As for a digital photo being a flimsy reason for her to travel across the globe... Especially since it's more than likely already duplicated digitally, that IS a bit silly. But in light of other stranger issues (like Lex blood + Zod DNA = Doomsday) I personally can't really complain about it.

Yeah. I mean, it's not like I agonized over that nitpick of a detail, but I feel like there could have been a better plot device employed here. It's really not that big of a deal though.
 
I would have preferred he channeled Kevin Spacey's take. Now that was an awesome Lex.

I don't understand what people see in Eisenbergs performance that makes people think Ledger. The farther into the movie more Lex seems to look like someone who's seen some shit from a lovecraft novel.

(like Lex blood + Zod DNA = Doomsday)

TBF the ship's computer did state that the "deformity" (doomsday) was deemed illegal on Krypton centuries ago. So this brings to light why a whole culture would outlaw natural birth if there is a 1 in a billion chance of the baby being born a Doomsday creature.
 
TBF the ship's computer did state that the "deformity" (doomsday) was deemed illegal on Krypton centuries ago. So this brings to light why a whole culture would outlaw natural birth if there is a 1 in a billion chance of the baby being born a Doomsday creature.

There is no reason to assume that applying human blood to a Kryptonian is all it takes to create a Doomsday, considering that the process involves taking in a dead body, turning it into a "Chrysalis" and applying so much electricity it was causing blackouts in the fictional equivalent of New York. The machine was obviously doing "nefarious science stuff" that we don't have the full details to. As to whether Lex's DNA was actually necessary or was just a symbolic gesture is unknown.
 
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