Phrozenflame500
Member
Well therein lies the problem I imagine. It gets steadily more and more difficult to separate the "insightful critique" from "factually wrong critique" and "intentionally factually wrong critique."
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Everything Wrong With "Everything Wrong With.." (A critique of Cinema Sins)
- Thread starter Blue Lou
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Well therein lies the problem I imagine. It gets steadily more and more difficult to separate the "insightful critique" from "factually wrong critique" and "intentionally factually wrong critique."
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I mean
You've seen some of the criticism you get in film threads here
You shouldn't be so surprised
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Spoiler: I too am a sadomasochist.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's you, that's fair the threshold to suspension of disbelief varies individually. CinemaSins isn't for you apparently, that's your prerogative. You can just move on and be barely bothered by them. This thread is literally the first time I've seen EWW mentioned anywhere outside my youtube subscriptions so I don't think one can't help but be exposed to them.
I love the Sherlock Holmes movies with RDJ btw, even though they are pretty bad.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
The problem is that people care too much. I watch them for good fun. If they say something factually wrong I laugh if I find it funny. If I don't, I don't. It's not the channel I would recommend anyone if they're interested in thoughtful analysis. Watch it, enjoy it and laugh with them. If you discover that you aren't the target audience stop watching.
Whoa can't believe there is so much hate for Cinema Sins. One of only about a dozen channnels I subscribe to.
What surprises me the most is the outright, not dislike, hate. Like it is almost comparable to hating a movie to the point of making around 400 videos filled with hate about it.
What surprises me the most is the outright, not dislike, hate. Like it is almost comparable to hating a movie to the point of making around 400 videos filled with hate about it.
Most of it's b-grade at best, but sometimes it's worth a watch. I actually watched the one on The Wicker Man last night and it was pretty good. Honest Trailers is much better.
Not really and if it is you should pick a group of critics you like and follow them.
Not really and if it is you should pick a group of critics you like and follow them.
But that's not a real answer or defense.
it's not suspension of disbelief because there was nothing being done that was even remotely unbelievable. Saying that "I wasn't paying attention to the movie, I don't understand why this is happening, it's so unbelievable" isn't a good excuse because the literal first part of that was "I wasn't paying attention to the movie".
Stating factual errors because you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to the very movie being presented to you isn't "being unable to suspend your disbelief". It's you being ignorant and lazy.
CinemaSins very clearly started as a channel that was meant to monetize and capitalize on the idea of finding nitpicks in films and laughing at them. That's fine.
But they're reached the point where they have to invent their own nitpicks that don't actually exist. And it's trash.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I like cheap laughs.
And I don't really care if he was wrong with a lot of stuff in the Sherlock Holmes video. I'm not taking it as gospel. Eh whatever.
I don't know who Shesellssheshells is but this isn't making a good first impression.
tryagainlater
Member
Trust me, I've seen lots of people who take CinemaSins and Honest Trailers as serious criticism. It's hard to not find it stupid.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Well you were implying in your previous post that there was thoughtful critique in there, which is what I was commenting on.
I don't mind people watching them for shits and giggles, humour's subjective so whatever. It was more the rare person who takes them seriously that I'd take issue with.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's how some people watch movies.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I think the problem is that more than a few times, I've personally seen people use CinemaSins as a fucking thesis to prove whatever point they try to make. And that inability to understand their low blow satire is problematic.
Because talking and discussing entertainment is fun. Sometimes it is even important. As we've seen with social issues inflicting the likes of Hollywood through its xenophobia, racism and stigmatization that penetrates the entirety of pop culture spectrum.
Is it CinemaSins problem that some people are taking blows from a source and just regurgitating? No. We all do it with various things. There is probably not a poster here on this forum who hasn't passed along an article, editorial or piece from TheAtlantic, Politico, Huff Post or wherever on a subject they weren't qualified on. And neither was the journalist or opinion column writer who made the piece probably. We're a culture of passing along information and trying to build cases.
It's not like, even if you are a casual movie watcher that it is beyond the realm of possibility that you would conflate some of the points in the CinemaSins videos with your own points. If they are funny and you don't know better, it might sound logical.
Personally I don't like CinemaSins. I think it is too easy to take the road of a shithead in trying to make comedy. It is always the easiest thing in the world to go into roast mode. To criticize and be negative. That is why unintelligent people always exhibit those traits. It's a low blow reaction.
When really smart or intelligent people are negative or roast, there is usually a deeper more profound point or a moment of self-reflection or self-deprication.
I don't believe there is any skill in being negative just for the sake of being negative. I acknowledge that CinemaSins is just a format. Like Cracked. But I feel I got some mildly interesting buzzfeed/IQ style pop culture facts when I read that. During CinemaSins I feel that somebody is just reaching for straws there aren't there. Nitpicking trying to make lists. To be fair, I think Cracked has evolved into something similar in recent years, or maybe I have just gotten tired of their format.
If you look at something like Red Letter Medias Star Wars reviews you could say the same thing in theory. But Red Letter Media, as absurd as it is actually leans itself up against thematic and accurate film theory. The films are dissicted with comparisons shots of the originals, and they use joseph campbell and the heroes journey throughout to reference and build up their points. It is negative criticue, but it is not lazy. And to top it off, there is this running gag that turns into a full blown character arch with the person making the reviews being a psychopath.
I think there is a startling difference between Red Letter Media and CinemaSins in that sense, and I think CinemaSins could learn a thing or two from them.
I also wish there wasn't such a massive focus trying to do entertainment that runs on "let us shit on the thing. It is the easy laughs". It really is too easy to highlight negativity because nothing is perfect and you can be obtuse and find glarring faults with everything. Anyone here on GAF can run in circles around even the most universally acclaimed films, tv shows, books and games and argue they are shit by nit picking. There is no skill in that.
Because talking and discussing entertainment is fun. Sometimes it is even important. As we've seen with social issues inflicting the likes of Hollywood through its xenophobia, racism and stigmatization that penetrates the entirety of pop culture spectrum.
Is it CinemaSins problem that some people are taking blows from a source and just regurgitating? No. We all do it with various things. There is probably not a poster here on this forum who hasn't passed along an article, editorial or piece from TheAtlantic, Politico, Huff Post or wherever on a subject they weren't qualified on. And neither was the journalist or opinion column writer who made the piece probably. We're a culture of passing along information and trying to build cases.
It's not like, even if you are a casual movie watcher that it is beyond the realm of possibility that you would conflate some of the points in the CinemaSins videos with your own points. If they are funny and you don't know better, it might sound logical.
Personally I don't like CinemaSins. I think it is too easy to take the road of a shithead in trying to make comedy. It is always the easiest thing in the world to go into roast mode. To criticize and be negative. That is why unintelligent people always exhibit those traits. It's a low blow reaction.
When really smart or intelligent people are negative or roast, there is usually a deeper more profound point or a moment of self-reflection or self-deprication.
I don't believe there is any skill in being negative just for the sake of being negative. I acknowledge that CinemaSins is just a format. Like Cracked. But I feel I got some mildly interesting buzzfeed/IQ style pop culture facts when I read that. During CinemaSins I feel that somebody is just reaching for straws there aren't there. Nitpicking trying to make lists. To be fair, I think Cracked has evolved into something similar in recent years, or maybe I have just gotten tired of their format.
If you look at something like Red Letter Medias Star Wars reviews you could say the same thing in theory. But Red Letter Media, as absurd as it is actually leans itself up against thematic and accurate film theory. The films are dissicted with comparisons shots of the originals, and they use joseph campbell and the heroes journey throughout to reference and build up their points. It is negative criticue, but it is not lazy. And to top it off, there is this running gag that turns into a full blown character arch with the person making the reviews being a psychopath.
I think there is a startling difference between Red Letter Media and CinemaSins in that sense, and I think CinemaSins could learn a thing or two from them.
I also wish there wasn't such a massive focus trying to do entertainment that runs on "let us shit on the thing. It is the easy laughs". It really is too easy to highlight negativity because nothing is perfect and you can be obtuse and find glarring faults with everything. Anyone here on GAF can run in circles around even the most universally acclaimed films, tv shows, books and games and argue they are shit by nit picking. There is no skill in that.
From the video it doesn't look like it.
I refuse to believe people take it seriously.
But half the nitpicks are jokes. They don't claim to be experts or that the nitpicks are valid. If you are caring for what they say then it isn't their fault.
Cinemasins is pretty self-aware and they are mostly joking around. People taking it seriously is the problem.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Apparently. I never understood the hate. Or the insistence that another channel is better so why watch the other.
I was wondering when you'd show up to win the thread.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Cinema Sins is to Honest Trailers as The Daily Currant is to the Onion.
trrrrraaaaaashhhhhh.
trrrrraaaaaashhhhhh.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm more bothered by people who take their videos seriously as legitimate criticism.
Dane Cook loves their videos, too.
Dane Cook loves their videos, too.
It's a mix of both. They poke fun at films but they also put in obviously non-serious 'sins' because none of it matters. Just like at the end where they give a bullshit sentencing and have all those parody scenes.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Do you think the same can't be said for CinemaSins?
I mean I get if someone doesn't find it funny but saying they can't criticise movies? Well, they aren't trying to do that.
It's just two dudes nitpicking a movie with a bunch of jokes thrown into it. Wasting time getting mad about it is just sad.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Okay I don't get it, you take the EWWEWW at face value and literally everything in EWW Sherlock Holmes is supposed to be wrong?
There's also nothing wrong with being trash.
Whether something does or doesn't qualify for suspension of disbelief is pointless since it's an individual thing, hence doesn't matter whether that is correct or not.
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Some things are actually pretty spot on. It's rare and far between but never the less it's there. They have seen a lot of movies and have experience nit picking them. You watch them to lose a couple of minutes and if you happen to hear something that resonates with you, everyone is a winner.
Well, Cinemasins are self-aware dudes while this guy is just full of himself using crass language to attack someone else.
So no, it can't be said for Cinemasins.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Doctor Decimate
Member
So the fact that they're self-aware means people won't run with it and think "it's a good attitude to have"?
Uh okay
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
I dunno where you're getting this idea he's full of himself from, he's always seemed pretty chill to me
And I mean I feel like we should be past "It's just a joke" being used in defence of garbage
The first few dozen or so episodes of CinemaSins walked a pretty decent line in terms of being satire and minimalist critique. Nowadays though the shtick is a bit caught up in itself so I treat it as someone else here said it, an innocuous, subversive way to recap movies. It's gone pretty much full satire.
I think this video is a good example of why you shouldn't take a lot of CS as a genuine way of criticizing movies (because CS even acknowledges this themselves, having made videos of movies they consider their favorites) but much like the actual EWW videos this is definitely just as nitpicky, if not more aggravating in tone.
I think this video is a good example of why you shouldn't take a lot of CS as a genuine way of criticizing movies (because CS even acknowledges this themselves, having made videos of movies they consider their favorites) but much like the actual EWW videos this is definitely just as nitpicky, if not more aggravating in tone.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's terrible satire that coasts on the internet's very slippery grasp of what "satire" actually is.
It's satire for people who think satire = irony, when people think irony = simply noticing things.
Sure, dislike it all you want. Throw a bunch of low level insults to it in the first 30 seconds of your "serious critique"? That's pathetic.
If people don't get they are self-aware how is that their fault?
You can think it's a garbage joke but evaluating it like a serious video? It is not so obviously it's a bad serious video.
I never said it was good satire. I'm saying it's well passed the point at which an interesting idea was actually being executed with some slightly well managed restraint to justify it's format.
I pretty much just put it on when I have nothing else to watch, if only to see some silly errors in movies. If I want humor mixed with genuine critique I usually watch RedLetterMedia's stuff.
Shesellssheshells is definitely not full of himself, tho. Also, what "crass language"?
SchrodingerC
Member
Cinema Sins is suppose to be overly nitpicky for comedic effect; they're barely serious in all of their videos.
People actually taking Cinema Sins' nitpicking as true criticism is kinda surprising.
People actually taking Cinema Sins' nitpicking as true criticism is kinda surprising.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Honest Trailers is funnier than Cinema Sins.
Finally.
Chainsawkitten
Member
So if I understand it correctly the point of CinemaSins is that you're supposed to laugh at them, not with them?
How are they making clear that it's not meant as criticism? The few videos I watched didn't have a hint of self awareness. It's not surprising to me that people take them at face value. I still don't really get what they're actually making fun of.
The comment section of the Sherlock Holmes video is also just full of people discussing the validity of the "sins". Doesn't seem like they're in on the joke either.
Henchmen21
Banned
More like confirmation bias. Don't like said thing. Use any source to back that up in this case CS.
Thewonandonly
Junior Member
Ya I'm with you their man. I always watch them and enjoy the hell out of them. Do I take them as critiques of the film no but they are entertaining as hell to be honest
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I do dislike horseshit. I dislike this video.
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