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[grumble]

Maybe some devs here can chime in...

How is this any different than Ultra/High/Medium settings for PC games? Most 3rd party games come out on multiple systems with variable settings already anyway.

Having all those settings cost a lot of money and often makes the games less stable. It seems like a no brainer that this will cost developers more. The question is, do they make more revenue? My guess is no. This basically means that development shops set money on fire. Competition over time may have them forced to bite the bullet.

It's bad for consumers because it violates the implicit contract saying that a console will be this awesome thing for a solid chunk of time. A lot of people would have waited, and others would have chosen to not dive in.

It's also bad because more costs means fewer games, and it means compromises in aspects of game design to cram it into what is no longer a truly closed platform. Less optimization.

 

[PFD]

So your solution to shitty game optimization is to add even more effort and forced platforms?

No one said the PS4K would be a solution for shitty optimization. In fact Sony prohibits devs from releasing PS4K-only titles. They said every game must run on the PS4

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's bad for consumers because it violates the implicit contract saying that a console will be this awesome thing for a solid chunk of time. A lot of people would have waited, and others would have chosen to not dive in.
.

I wish people would stop saying these things. Your PS4 is not going to explode just because PS4K exists. The "contract" still exists for as long as the PS4 ecosystem exists.

 

[kyser73]

I hope Sony is listening to this feedback and decides to not release the PS4.5.

Yes I'm sure Sony rely on Colin Moriarty tweeting something to know exactly how developers feel.

For all we know he could just be sourcing Shinobi for this.

We, technically - gamewise, haven't even had our PS4s a year.

First year and a bit was pretty much a writeoff. Much too soon for this garbage. Pisses me off everytime I see news about it.

Having all those settings cost a lot of money and often makes the games less stable. It seems like a no brainer that this will cost developers more. The question is, do they make more revenue? My guess is no. This basically means that development shops set money on fire. Competition over time may have them forced to bite the bullet.

It's bad for consumers because it violates the implicit contract saying that a console will be this awesome thing for a solid chunk of time. A lot of people would have waited, and others would have chosen to not dive in.

It's also bad because more costs means fewer games, and it means compromises in aspects of game design to cram it into what is no longer a truly closed platform. Less optimization.

Lots of made up stuff here.

Let's not bother with actual facts - PS4 3 years old in November, imaginary 'contracts' being imaginary - and just focus on feelings.

 

[kyser73]

Dp

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Yes I'm sure Sony rely on Colin Moriarty tweeting something to know exactly how developers feel.

For all we know he could just be sourcing Shinobi for this.

yeah i really hope Colin backs up his claims in the next PS ILU XOXO episode.

i know they know some of the Sony execs personally but i don't really think they use the KF folks as a thermometer for their plans and products- as they should.

 

[pompidu]

No one said the PS4K would be a solution for shitty optimization. In fact Sony prohibits devs from releasing PS4K-only titles. They said every game must run on the PS4

Source?

I don't want a rumor link either. I haven't seen Sony mention anything yet.

Edit: nvm

 

[Psychoward]

Yes I'm sure Sony rely on Colin Moriarty tweeting something to know exactly how developers feel.

For all we know he could just be sourcing Shinobi for this.





Lots of made up stuff here.

Let's not bother with actual facts - PS4 3 years old in November, imaginary 'contracts' being imaginary - and just focus on feelings.

The contract is imaginary yes and I'm not gonna defend that but when people say 3 years is a long time for a console.... eh. That's about the length of an average game development, there were games announced before the Ps4 was out that still aren't out yet. Imagine if last gen ended in late 2008, it would be seen as an abysmal gen overall.

 

[Darknight]

Fucking lol at some of these responses.

PS4k will be fine.

PS4 games will be fine.

PS5 will arrive a few years from now.

Reminds of the "one console future" and when people were losing their shit when WiiU started bombing.

 

[Fushichou187]

Source?

I don't want a rumor link either. I haven't seen Sony mention anything yet.

Sony hasn't commented on any of this yet, so you'll just need to take everything with a grain of salt. Having said that though, the "not allowing PS4K only titles" is one of the marquee pieces of information-- aside from the specs being leaked-- mentioned in the documents being cited by Giant Bomb and Digital Foundry, surrounding this upcoming iteration of the PS4

 

[Psychoward]

Sony hasn't commented on any of this yet, so you'll just need to take everything with a grain of salt. Having said that though, the "not allowing PS4K only titles" is one of the marquee pieces of information-- aside from the specs being leaked-- mentioned in the documents being cited by Giant Bomb and Digital Foundry, surrounding this upcoming iteration of the PS4

As long as there's gonna be a ps4.5 they're in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. If they don't allow Ps4k exclusives then they don't utilize the power of the damn thing and are dragged back by the Ps4 og. If they do then they're fucking over PS4 owners. Lose, lose which is one of the reasons I think they should have waited but c'est la vie.

 

[Mediking]

I wish people would stop saying these things. Your PS4 is not going to explode just because PS4K exists. The "contract" still exists for as long as the PS4 ecosystem exists.

There's actually people who prolly wouldn't have bought a PS4 a few months ago if they knew a PS4K was coming.

And Sony is really is going for people's wallets. I feel sorta sad for whoever is buying PSVR and PS4K (if it releases) this year. That's giving Sony alotta money...

 

[RoKKeR]

Some of these posts... I trust Colin to deliver accurate and trustworthy info more than almost anybody else in the industry, alongside Klepick and Schrier. He has no agenda to push, yet we have people doubting what he says regarding developer opinions on this thing?

Maybe I haven't followed the thread closely enough or am cherry picking but that is ridiculous to me. It doesn't take much to consider the negatives this kind of hardware has for developers, of which there are many. That's not to say there aren't positives, but I certainly can't imagine developers, especially small developers, being thrilled with this out of the gate.

 

[RedRum]

There's actually people who prolly wouldn't have bought a PS4 a few months ago if they knew a PS4K was coming.

And Sony is really is going for people's wallets. I feel sorta sad for whoever is buying PSVR and PS4K (if it releases) this year. That's giving Sony alotta money...

I would have probably waited myself, but I will most likely pick it up after I see how it does. You're not wrong though. Between PSVR and PS4K, it's going to get expensive real quick.

 

[Corpekata]

No one said the PS4K would be a solution for shitty optimization. In fact Sony prohibits devs from releasing PS4K-only titles. They said every game must run on the PS4

Running is fairly subjective it seems given the wide range of performance issues that can be seen. Are they going to enforce this? There's a thread on the front page about Lichdom Battlemage which appears to run at 15 FPS on PS4, and there's been a variety of other games that have had issues. Are they going to setup a division at Sony to verify this stuff, or is it going to be a bunch of Just Cause 3ish issues?

 

[RedRum]

Some of these posts... I trust Colin to deliver accurate and trustworthy info more than almost anybody else in the industry, alongside Klepick and Schrier. He has no agenda to push, yet we have people doubting what he says regarding developer opinions on this thing?

Maybe I haven't followed the the way closely enough or am cherry picking but that is ridiculous to me. It doesn't take much to consider the negatives this kind of hardware has one developers, of which there are many. That's not to say there aren't positives to, but I certainly can't imagine developers, especially small developers, being thrilled with this out of the gate.

I agree. I watched people get torn up in the other thread because they voice their concerns. These are just regular people, but I can also see why the developers would have concerns like this as well.

I also think using the "Well PC has settings so it shouldn't be different for the devs" but I think devs will develop to the best of their abilities, as high as they can go, and leave it to the consumer to decide whether they can run it or not. It's not the same as optimizing for two, three, or four platforms.

 

[Fushichou187]

As long as there's gonna be a ps4.5 they're in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. If they don't allow Ps4k exclusives then they don't utilize the power of the damn thing and are dragged back by the Ps4 og. If they do then they're fucking over PS4 owners. Lose, lose which is one of the reasons I think they should have waited but c'est la vie.

We'll see. I think in the long run this half-step will be fine, but I'm super interested in how Sony is going to handle the messaging of this thing in the coming months-- particularly walking the fine line between reassuring og PS4 owners like myself that nothing is changing, while also finding a way to essentially say "but maaaaan, you really need to check this new shit out!".

There was a great point Jeff and Drew brought up during the Bombcast today about whether it would include a UHD drive in the machine for 4K Blurays. If Sony is dead set on not allowing PS4K exclusives for immediate future, then why have a UHD drive in there since it would break backwards compatibility; 100GB bluray discs that are ok on PS4K wouldn't work in og PS4 and Sony has said that there can't be two SKUs of a game, nor PS4K exclusives. Yeah. Very interesting times.

 

[FyreWulff]

As long as there's gonna be a ps4.5 they're in a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. If they don't allow Ps4k exclusives then they don't utilize the power of the damn thing and are dragged back by the Ps4 og. If they do then they're fucking over PS4 owners. Lose, lose which is one of the reasons I think they should have waited but c'est la vie.

Honestly, using cert licensing to enforce no PS4K exclusives is probably a good thing as

1) third parties are generally devving against lowest common denominator, which isn't the platform people think it is (it's PC!), which means they aren't really pushing your HW to it's limits in the first place

2) and even if you're console only, you still have a larger install base of the One + PS4. Pubs and devs already skip over the Wii U and it's size is compare to the One's install base. Expecting a developer to make games for an even smaller install base than the Wii U (remember, for funding and so on PS4K counts as a new console, just like Kinect on the 360) is questionable use of investor money and financial return on spending.

I expect just like other instances, most 4K enhanced modes with be first party titles. Same with Nintendo and GB games with GBC enhancement, GBC games with GBA enhancement, DS games with DSi enhancement, and 3DS games with n3DS enhancement, and hell, the N64 expansion pak - the only games to ever REQUIRE it were three first party titles, and one was due to a software bug (DK64).

 

[Omnii-chan]

Last gen developers were talking about how stale the hardware got from the stretched out generation.

Now we get a mid gen refresh to keep up and it makes people unhappy...

I hope they can adapt easy enough, it's honestly for the greater good I believe. We've been seeing sub HD games with bad frame rates since the start of this generation.

 

[RoKKeR]

Last gen developers were talking about how stale the hardware got from the stretched out generation.

Now we get a mid gen refresh to keep up and it makes people unhappy...

7 years vs. 3 years. Additionally I would argue that, because this isn't a new generation developers will still be beholden to "old" tech, much like they were at the beginning of the generation.

 

[Mediking]

I would have probably waited myself, but I will most likely pick it up after I see how it does. You're not wrong though. Between PSVR and PS4K, it's going to get expensive real quick.

Sony is trying their best to keep their grip around their userbase from even thinking of buying an NX or the next Xbox.

 

[Darknight]

The 2 biggest "fears" people have is that a)PS4 games will now run worst b)people salty they just bought one within the last year.

a) is unfounded and people should relax. Stop using the 3DS thing. Think of it this way, games are suffering right now. We are at a point where some games just will not run constant 30FPS/1080p due to hardware or how technical the game is. Yea if some devs really put the effort in their games, performance will display their hard work but most arent there so we have games with not so smooth performance. (1st party would be the exception i think as they tend to have better grasp of tools)

PS4K would alleviate that by "raising" the ceiling or limit they have to get a smooth 30/1080p on PS4k. OG PS4 versions will run like it would without the PS4k ever existing. (Imagine Just Cause 3 releasing after PS4k reveal...I could see the Neo version running smoother at 1080p and the OG version running like it does right now.) I know this is an optimist look but I do not see all games running like Just Cause 3 all of the sudden.

b) On this, I feel you. I'm glad I jumped in day 1 because I dont mind re-selling my almost 3 yr old system. I look forward to trading it in GS for ~$200 and buy the PS4k. I dont expect a trade in "system" from Sony. Your best bet is to resell on ebay/CL/GS. Those who jumped day 1 will benefit the most as we had the chance to play from day one and can upgrade without feeling buyer's remorse.

Now I can make a suggesting to ALL GAFers and gamers in general so please read the following. Since it seems the gaming market will change to a new model such as releasing new revisions or "mid gen" upgrades, It's highly recommended to jump day1. Well why not just wait an extra 3 yrs after the new gen starts for the revision? Sure you can do that and miss out on a bunch of games if you like. But now knowing that a mid-gen refresh is coming, might as well buy it when the gen starts and then resell close to expected release of said new hardware and get the new shiny system for ~half while not having missed "current gen" gaming for the last 3 yrs.

I dont see an issue with this "model". By the time PS5 release, it might be 6 yrs after PS4 launched. (lets assume PS5 will release in the next 3-4 yrs) By then, PC gaming will have moved along much further as usual, better hardware tech progressions as usual. I see no issue for PS5 to come to life. I'm not sure what a PS4k will do to future PS systems. Are people not willing to buy a PS5 in 3-4 yrs? Hmm If you see Uncharted 5 with CG graphics and a price point of $400, I think some might change their tune quick. Sure they can wait an extra 3 years for PS5.5 but then gaming might not be something that your interested in the 1st place.

 

[Mediking]

The 2 biggest "fears" people have is that a)PS4 games will now run worst b)people salty they just bought one within the last year.

a) is unfounded and people should relax. Stop using the 3DS thing. Think of it this way, games are suffering right now. We are at a point where some games just will not run constant 30FPS/1080p due to hardware or how technical the game is. Yea if some devs really put the effort in their games, performance will display their hard work but most arent there so we have games with not so smooth performance. (1st party would be the exception i think as they tend to have better grasp of tools)

PS4K would alleviate that by "raising" the ceiling or limit they have to get a smooth 30/1080p on PS4k. OG PS4 versions will run like it would without the PS4k ever existing. (Imagine Just Cause 3 releasing after PS4k reveal...I could see the Neo version running smoother at 1080p and the OG version running like it does right now.) I know this is an optimist look but I do not see all games running like Just Cause 3 all of the sudden.

b) On this, I feel you. I'm glad I jumped in day 1 because I dont mind re-selling my almost 3 yr old system. I look forward to trading it in GS for ~$200 and buy the PS4k. I dont expect a trade in "system" from Sony. Your best bet is to resell on ebay/CL/GS. Those who jumped day 1 will benefit the most as we had the chance to play from day one and can upgrade without feeling buyer's remorse.

Now I can make a suggesting to ALL GAFers and gamers in general so please read the following. Since it seems the gaming market will change to a new model such as releasing new revisions or "mid gen" upgrades, It's highly recommended to jump day1. Well why not just wait an extra 3 yrs after the new gen starts for the revision? Sure you can do that and miss out on a bunch of games if you like. But now knowing that a mid-gen refresh is coming, might as well buy it when the gen starts and then resell close to expected release of said new hardware and get the new shiny system for ~half while not having missed "current gen" gaming for the last 3 yrs.

I dont see an issue with this "model". By the time PS5 release, it might be 6 yrs after PS4 launched. (lets assume PS5 will release in the next 3-4 yrs) By then, PC gaming will have moved along much further as usual, better hardware tech progressions as usual. I see no issue for PS5 to come to life. I'm not sure what a PS4k will do to future PS systems. Are people not willing to buy a PS5 in 3-4 yrs? Hmm If you see Uncharted 5 with CG graphics and a price point of $400, I think some might change their tune quick. Sure they can wait an extra 3 years for PS5.5 but then gaming might not be something that your interested in the 1st place.

I'm not gonna toss out my money on day one purchases of iterative consoles just so that can soften the blow of a successor coming.

 

[Fisty]

There's actually people who prolly wouldn't have bought a PS4 a few months ago if they knew a PS4K was coming.

And Sony is really is going for people's wallets. I feel sorta sad for whoever is buying PSVR and PS4K (if it releases) this year. That's giving Sony alotta money...

Sony is only going for the wallets of people who want or will want this. People arent going to buy it if they dont care. People that do care can upgrade. Its a win/win for everyone, except maybe devs (we'll see how that pans out)

 

[LordofPwn]

I have to wonder if these are devs that have actually worked with these dev kits that are supposedly just now getting sent out, or if they are being hyperbolic thinking this new upgrade is going to be something like a PS3 to PS4 jump.

I also don't see indie devs getting these kits or having to worry about them.

I've heard of devs wanting new hardware, and I'm guessing those devs are already working on PS4/XBO/PC where the PC is just more capable.

From the gianbomb leak I personally don't see a benefit for upgrading other than maybe a better PSVR experience. I don't have any plans for buying a 4KTV any time soon and I see that as the big selling point.

if it can support UHD Blu-rays that would be amazing, and I'd hate to be Samsung.

My understanding too is that the PS4K is the same architecture as the PS4, just faster, so if anything they'll easily hit benchmarks on PS4K while they continue to optimize for PS4. Am I understanding that correctly?

Can a dev who's worked with this thing weigh in?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Depending on how noticeable and worthy the upgrade is I'll consider it (especially for XV) but otherwise I'm pretty happy with my ps4 so no worries on my end. Besides, I'm not against to updating to the new sku anyway. Ultimately it's just an option that's how I see it anyway.

 

[Corpekata]

Can a dev who's worked with this thing weigh in?

They're NDA'ed out the wazoo, so you're going to be waiting a while. There's a reason all of the reports on this are being relayed from a third party.

 

[LordofPwn]

They're NDA'ed out the wazoo, so you're going to be waiting a while. There's a reason all of the reports on this are being relayed from a third party.

Which is why I feel like the devs that have weighed in haven't actually gotten to work with the kits yet. If you're ok or happy with something how often to you publicly make note of it versus when you're unhappy with something.
It all just feels reactionary.

 

[Movalpolos]

Has Colin elaborated on the tweet?
Why doesn't he give us a number of how many devs his "source" spoke with?

Also how do we know his source isn't just Shinobi?

 

[SlightySweatyPanda]

Nothing changes for anyone who still owns a PS4. It will still play all new games. Sony is trying to buck the console trend...if they went for a new console entirely it would be the same status quo we're used to. The fact that everything is forwards compatible should be applauded, and it means no one needs to buy a new version if you don't want to.

WiiU is not a good comparison to PS4 at all. It was a flop and the PS4 has been a huge success. With this new iteration, Sony keeps their install base from PS4 intact + is able to cater to the higher end of the market who wants horsepower improvements.

I understand all of that, I posed the question having that knowledge.

And Im not comparing the Ps4 to the WiiU, what I'm saying is many casual fans assumed the WiiU was essentially a Wii.5 and that contributed to its failure.

 

[Imperfected]

I assume this is TLG devs pre-gaming their excuse for why it's been delayed another five years.

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

Developers are obviously pissed. They all need to upgrade games to Neo or get crushed by big companies with more resources.
Neo mode may be optional but it will be mandatory for marketing reasons.

Also prepare yourself for tons of Neo-remasters of many games.

 

[shaowebb]

https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/722487768291479554

Lock if old

There's a shocker. Hardware specs changing mid development cycle on a multimillion dollar games is always costly. They can change and upgrade all they want but that means you got to go back and retest all your stuff on the new hardware and make certain it still works or have to remake it. It cost a LOT of time and money to go back and do this. Thats why developers like consoles...they aren't SUPPOSED to act like PC's with varying specs on hardware!

If console manufacturers think its brilliant to change hardware after 3 years to get a new bit of sales on the market they are very short sighted. All it does is make it even harder for developers to make quality products because now 3 years in they are nearly back to square one on their work pipelines and have to retest the waters and relearn whats the best path to proceed down in developing their games on the hardware. Just leave shit alone man and let em maximize the console with a longer gen cycle. The longer you let em learn that hardware the faster games begin to come out as they get used to the tech.

 

[rec0ded1]

I thought the ps4k was mainly for the vr stuff.boy was I wrong I guess.

 

[KeRaSh]

Devs got lazy. Remember when they still had to support Nintendo consoles?

 

[Dirtyshubb]

As much as I respect Colin, I wouldn't always take what he thinks at face value because he often seems to use small sample sizes and the vocal minority to form his opinions on what the general audience feels about something.

Are some devs annoyed by this? Yeah I'm sure there are but I would be very hesitant to say 'most' since its no doubt just anecdotal evidence that isn't fully representative of the development community.

If it was this universally hated devs, I'm sure Sony would have thought twice about this since they have been super careful to foster better relationships with 3rd part devs this generation.

Another thing to remember is that for ages Colin was citing Tidus for why you would be able to change your name on ps4k even when people mentioned that Tidus makes shit up.

 

[photogaz]

At first I was a little bit disappointed in Sony's decision to do this. However, I understand their dilemma.

1. Microsoft and Nintendo might be releasing better consoles and they may be left behind.
2. PSVR requires more juice and this was a sure-fire to ensure that PSVR titles could work so much better.
3. Some people do want the ease of a home console compared to a PC but at the same time want some power.

I feel Sony's decision was more based on the long term and being in a good position it's a risk that doesn't have many negatives. Providing the rumours are true about the PS Neo stipulations I don't see it being a problem.

It just needs to be marketed right. Two SKUs, one called the PS4 Slim (the old PS4) and a new PS4 Enhanced. Make it kind of transparent to Joe Bloggs/John Doe who just wants a games console.

From a development standpoint this is NOT like developing for a separate console with a different toolset. The coding is the same, you just need to account for 2 variations of settings. That's not to suggest it's no work at all, but nowhere near the level some people are suggesting. Most optimisation is done at the end of the development life cycle, there may be some more time required to account for that.

Colin usually knows what he's talking about, but in this particular case I feel his lack of understanding of development and the technical side may have affected this opinion too much. #colinwillbewrong

 

[GHG]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1209660

Loren Lanning doesn't seem to be unhappy about any of this.

Like with anything you are going to get some people who are "unhappy" with something and others who are perfectly fine with it. And if we end up going down this road those who are "unhappy" will simply be forced to adapt and become "fine" with it over time.

 

[Principate]

I don't understand this response. He said "most" devs. The only N3DS games of note seem to be Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors. One is an actual exclusive that was promote as such before launch, and the other is a "might as well be an exclusive." Both are first party releases.

There's actually a number of games with New 3DS improvements, e.g MH4G is actually a pretty significant upgrade.

 

[DannyDanger]

I feel like Colins personal opinions on this are too strong for anyone to just take his word for it...

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

We'll see. I think in the long run this half-step will be fine, but I'm super interested in how Sony is going to handle the messaging of this thing in the coming months-- particularly walking the fine line between reassuring og PS4 owners like myself that nothing is changing, while also finding a way to essentially say "but maaaaan, you really need to check this new shit out!".

There was a great point Jeff and Drew brought up during the Bombcast today about whether it would include a UHD drive in the machine for 4K Blurays. If Sony is dead set on not allowing PS4K exclusives for immediate future, then why have a UHD drive in there since it would break backwards compatibility; 100GB bluray discs that are ok on PS4K wouldn't work in og PS4 and Sony has said that there can't be two SKUs of a game, nor PS4K exclusives. Yeah. Very interesting times.

It wouldn't break backwards compatibility because all games would still come on regular BDs (which can be played in a UHD BD drive, assuming the PS4k has one) with each featuring a regular or Neo mode, so the discs remain universal. The UHD BD drive would be for media discs only, rather than for games.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I feel like Colins personal opinions on this are too strong for anyone to just take his word for it...

Yeah, at the moment he's evaluating PS4K on his misgivings and so he's going to be more inclined to gravitate towards negative information. He's looking to justify his stance. I'm sure that once more is known he'll become a little more neutral.

 

[00ich]

We'll see. I think in the long run this half-step will be fine, but I'm super interested in how Sony is going to handle the messaging of this thing in the coming months-- particularly walking the fine line between reassuring og PS4 owners like myself that nothing is changing, while also finding a way to essentially say "but maaaaan, you really need to check this new shit out!".

By discontinuing the old PS4 after a short transition phase. Then it's easy: your new PS4 plays all old games, your old PS4 plays all new games.

 

[The God]

By discontinuing the old PS4 after a short transition phase. Then it's easy: your new PS4 plays all old games, your old PS4 plays all new games.

Devs for sure wouldn't give a fuck about making games properly on hardware you can't even buy anymore.

 

[Terrell]

Frankly outside of first party titles, and exclusives, I don't expect a lot of optimization work to go into the Neo versions. There's not much incentive.

This was how I estimated things working, as well. Basically, give 1st parties and only the most intrepid 3rd-parties the opportunity to document the best ways to squeeze power out of the box early, then there's less guess work in maximizing performance by the time everyone else is ready to make games for it.

So the 5-6 year generation cycle will maintain, but it will be a software cycle instead of a hardware cycle, with a handful of people out in front of it.

Or... at least that's how it SHOULD work.

 

[wapplew]

What's in it for the developer or publisher?
Will PS4 Neo double the install base or it stay on same trajectory? Why do a dev spend the extra time (by how much we don't know) to make games for same amount of target audience?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

What's in it for the developer or publisher?
Will PS4 Neo double the install base or it stay on same trajectory? Why do a dev spend the extra time (by how much we don't know) to make games for same amount of target audience?

I don't think they have a choice. In the GB article it says all games from October will have both Old and Neo presets.

They don't have the time or money to optimise games properly just for one console, now they are being forced to do it for two. Something has to give and I have a feeling it is going to be old PS4 games running at sub 1080p resolution just to try and hold framerates.

 

[kyser73]

Some of these posts... I trust Colin to deliver accurate and trustworthy info more than almost anybody else in the industry, alongside Klepick and Schrier. He has no agenda to push, yet we have people doubting what he says regarding developer opinions on this thing?

Maybe I haven't followed the thread closely enough or am cherry picking but that is ridiculous to me. It doesn't take much to consider the negatives this kind of hardware has for developers, of which there are many. That's not to say there aren't positives, but I certainly can't imagine developers, especially small developers, being thrilled with this out of the gate.

My reasons:

1. 'Most devs' - got a number for that one?

2. CM had a massive rant about this on PSILY so he's not being remotely objective in saying this.

3. Dev kits have, apparently, only just gone out. If that's the case, how can anyone have costed time/money etc into their project timelines?

4. As I said earlier, changes like this mod-project are a pain, but a halfway decent PM/Producer gets paid to deal with this stuff.

5. They're developing in the same architecture, and Neo mode is essentially a patch, whether it is built into the original development path or not, and it isn't like devs have felt the need to hold back on patching just to get games running properly this gen.

Yes there is a financial implication here and yes getting ANY spec change added to a project mid-steam is a complete PITA, but they aren't insurmountable issues.

I mean shit, it isn't like Sony have dumped their existing architecture and have decided to reboot the console. I've PMd projects where the stakeholders have been shuffled/changed and done exactly that when we've been past 60-70% completion.

 

[ninjablade]

What's in it for the developer or publisher?
Will PS4 Neo double the install base or it stay on same trajectory? Why do a dev spend the extra time (by how much we don't know) to make games for same amount of target audience?

Because devs already do this for pc which has 1000 of configurations , I suspect that it takes very little time or effort, to make ps4k games look or run better. I suspect sony will have special development tools to make the process very easy.

 

[kyser73]

I don't think they have a choice. In the GB article it says all games from October will have both Old and Neo presets.

They don't have the time or money to optimise games properly just for one console, now they are being forced to do it for two. Something has to give and I have a feeling it is going to be old PS4 games running at sub 1080p resolution just to try and hold framerates.

Depends on the quality of the SDK really.