Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
This is what I don't understand about ANY complaints relating to gaming. Just don't buy it.
DLC
New consoles
Original (better) Xbox One
Season pass
New accessories
Remasters
Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
This is what I don't understand about ANY complaints relating to gaming. Just don't buy it.
DLC
New consoles
Original (better) Xbox One
Season pass
New accessories
Remasters
Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Get outta here with your balanced & reasonable post.
Only anger and hurt allowed in Neo threads.
Firmus_Anguis
Banned
I'm curious... How is it unfounded? Saying I can't know for sure until they release it is well, true. But that doesn't make what I said unfounded.
It's based on this:
Spreading misinformation can get you (rightfully) banned. Osiris is yet to be banned - And Bish vouches for him.
How do you interpret what he wrote?
What's a considerable sacrifice to you? I'd define it as chugging along, trying to keep up with the considerably more powerful console.
I don't see how else you can interpret it, quite frankly.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
So let's see.
There will be 40 million PS4 units out in the wild by the time the PS4k comes out. Yet the dev will optimize for the 4k model, leaving the OG SKU with "scraps". Gotcha.
Care to explain this reasoning with some evidence?
I especially like the "I'm still buying one, but this is a huge misfire for Sony!" posts.
meanspartan
Member
I disliked the N3DS for a lot of the same reasons, but yes, it is on a lesser scale than a console, it is different to me.
Other handhelds, what, Game Boy Color? Fine, tell you what, they can do Ps4.5 once the Ps4 has had a 9 year lifespan like the original Game Boy did before the Color lol.
The N64 you literally plugged in more ram. I fi could do that on Ps4, I'd be okay with that. It gives earlier adopters an upgrade path. Otherwise, no, it isn't the same as n64.
AstuteClass
Banned
Sony: "You develop, because we allow it, and you will bend, because we demand it."
meanspartan
Member
We just had a long cross gen era and you have to ask this? A lot of sales if not a majority came from the (shitty) ps3/360 versions of games with the huge install base.
They can target PS4k for the optimal experience, and then give the Ps4 the scraps, scraps which they know will still probably sell.
Dangansona
Member
I don't understand how, considering the majority of developers are putting their games on PCs which run the gamut in hardware to develop for (and often are buggy because of it). But one additional locked-in Playstation sku is a big deal?
Do you describe current multiplat ps4 games as chugging along? Because they can also be described as having considerable sacrifices made to them when compared to their pc counterparts. The "considerable sacrifices" was meant to imply that the ps4neo will have a significant boost in power. Not that the baseps4 versions of games will all of a sudden perform worse than how they have been so far.
gundamkyoukai
Member
You can't comapre the 2 .
The difference between PS3 and PS4 was huge .
It's not so for PS4 to PS4K , in fact a game going from 30fps to 60fps would take up all that extra power .
TheHolyTurnip
Member
This is my problem with the whole situation here. If games are ALREADY having problems getting up and running on PS4 then console upgrade isn't going to help that for anyone that has the original system. I'd anything it's going top make it worse since resources will be split and the workload for optimizing increased. More problems and issues are going to arise with games running on the older hardware and if the P4K is successful those problems will be ignored because "Who cares, buy the new system if you want it to run right".
KI haven't seen anything here stating that the old hardware will have to run games at a certain framerate/resolution/IQ, only that the new hardware has to be on par or better. This isn't going to lead to 1080p 30fps on OG/60 on Neo, this will lead to 720p 20-25 fps on OG/ 1080/1440p 30fps on Neo and that sounds like a shaft to me.
The generation has been full of broken games, preorder fuckery, games lacking content, performance issues etc
But for some reason people think PS4 games suffering is out of the question. Why?
Again, just stuff made up out of fear. If the Xbox One is getting good ports despite having weaker hardware than ps4 and selling way less, there's no reason to believe that the baseps4 will all of a sudden start getting shafted even if by some miracle ps4k takes it over in sales anytime soon (which is highly unlikely).
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall many cross-gen games running any worse than the standard average quality that was expected from the PS3/360 hardware. Meaning, the performance of cross-gen games didn't suddenly take a nosedive at the dawn of the new gen.
If anything, the opposite of what you say was true. There was continual uproar of "next-gen" versions of titles being held back by the last-gen versions, which was used for the baseline versions of nearly all cross-gen titles.
Audioboxer
Member
Dude you got it wrong, I heard 640p is coming back.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I might be confused.
Right now, aren't console games made at higher spec (60 frames, 1080, high res textures etc) and then scaled back to suit each console?
If the answer is yes, then does anything really change that much? Devs will still scale back for the OG consoles, while the upgrades will get the original "raw" version.
Right now, aren't console games made at higher spec (60 frames, 1080, high res textures etc) and then scaled back to suit each console?
If the answer is yes, then does anything really change that much? Devs will still scale back for the OG consoles, while the upgrades will get the original "raw" version.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
thanks for this good sir or madam.
your explanation helped calm some of my worries that it might be troublesome for devs to make a single disc game work well on both units without more rigorous and expensive testing and cert processes.
as for the reports Colin is claiming to hear: i think this is devs making a lot of initial knee jerk reactions without having the kits in their hands and all of the details. for all they know, you just submit your game once and it's all done in one pass instead of twice. for all they know, the SDK software has some special tools that make it super easy to check your game for compatibility on both. nobody knows at this point, so i would take the knee jerk reactions with a lump of salt.
as for the ex Bioware dude's comments: i think he was just basing his comments on the idea of it being a completely new design, and also under the assumption that it would basically be like designing a game around a whole separate console- which is sounding less and less likely.
It's a planning & PM (Project Management) headache to have a new spec target midway through an already-costed project.
But that's why PMs earn the big bucks, especially Agile PMs.
Plus Agile is based around fast iteration development so assuming its widespread use (as its the PM technique that's trendy atm) the changes shouldn't be too disruptive.
But then they assumes all devs actually adhere to any kind of PM regime...
WordsintheWater
Member
I believe he later said that considerable sacrifice was too strong of a word. And if the difference is 60 FPS on Neo and 30 FPS on PS4, that's a sacrifice, but it's perfectly playable on the PS4. You're whole chugging along at 20 FPS is unfounded. Also it doesn't matter if he was banned or not, we don't know who Osiris heard it from, if that person knows the facts or is just saying what they heard. We will see when it releases, but for now all of it is unfounded.
Oh and Insiders can also be wrong, there have been plenty of times they have been or misunderstood something. Taking their words as gospel is a mistake.
TheHolyTurnip
Member
To be fair the other stuff is just made up from optimism, there's very little to go on from the information we have other than "these are the supposed specs, everything has to run better on the 4k." Your optimism is just as valid as my concern in the lack of available information, and anyone ignoring either is at detriment as a customer.
Sure, but devs don't have this option. To put a game on playstation, you HAVE to include the Neo.
TheLaughingStock
Member
You can complain and make your voice heard too along with not buying.
makingmusic476
Member
Why does the 4k even exist? Aren't consoles typically sold at cost or a loss? If Sony isn't really making money and devs and consumers don't want it, then why?
I mean, I know ps4 hardware is sold at a profit, unlike its predecessors, but I can't imagine it's much.
I mean, I know ps4 hardware is sold at a profit, unlike its predecessors, but I can't imagine it's much.
Personal opinion. Keep in mind I haven't seen anything to do with this so I don't know any more than you guys on the topic.
I think its a good idea. More options, better graphics for those who want it. Minimal extra work( probably just tweaking engine quality settings and some extra QA to ensure the new settings keep to frame)
This seems to be a step away from the "console generation" model where we seem to start from 0 every 5-6 years, and instead have a rolling set of hardware to target which is great for game archiving and preserving the history of the medium as its likely older games will stay compatible on newer hardware for a longer time. I imagine the base hardware would be used as the "Target platform" to ensure a good experience for the masses, as that will be the model owned by the most people, this is no different to how we work now, target the lowest common denominator and scale up from there.
Overall there is a lot up in the air because we just don't know the details I understand peoples concerns but I think its all just jumping to conclusions (myself included) until we know more.
Firmus_Anguis
Banned
I hope you're right, I sincerely do. But the PC market has had it's fair share of horrifyingly bad ports, the most recent example I can think of being Arkham Knight. Consoles have always had the advantages of optimisation and simplicity - A new PS4 might just take that away. Look... I don't mind upgrades. In fact, I love them. I just want proper, next-gen upgrades, no mid-cycle ones. The PS4 selling at a record pace just solidifies the fact that people like the way things are. If it ain't broke... But if there's a market for this, so be it. I personally won't support it.
hyrule Warriors
Agree 100%...especially the bolded.
I was thinking about this on the drive home from work today and I think it may actually result in more longevity out of the PS4.
Nah, my "optimism" is based off current and past trends of development/ports and the logical action that devs would want to take based off market share. Your concerns are based on unfounded fears.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
because AMD isn't going to keep manufacturing that APU at the current die size forever, and half way through generations the console makers typically take a die shrink and implement other cost saving measures into their console, market it as the new slim model, and phase out the old unit. it was already going to happen, but now Sony has decided to include a performance boost because the 60fps PSVR game requirement is going to put a big strain on OG PS4, and devs will have to sacrifice graphics in order to hit that target.
with the PS4K they can market it as a new improved model that not only plays all the regular PS4 games, but will enhance them and make your PSVR titles look better too. also it will support 4K media and BD discs. they could also throw in better wifi or some other bells and whistles while they're at it to sweeten the deal.
i'm not saying that marketing angle is going to work, but the alternative would be to shrink down the PS4 APU and leave everything alone so it works exactly the same as before, but PSVR games suffer until PS5 is out because it's much harder to run a VR game- much less at 60fps.
Mustang 00
Member
What about the 3rd party games that are also available on the PC and can achieve 4k. Isn't that what we would basically be having?
I know that its extra work for devs but don't most of them already do this due to the modular nature of the PC. Besides, PS4k will have a fixed specs. I think PS4 only developers would be impacted more due to basically developing for 2 platforms now.
I think we'll just get used to this in time. Development cycle may take longer than it already is though.
I know that its extra work for devs but don't most of them already do this due to the modular nature of the PC. Besides, PS4k will have a fixed specs. I think PS4 only developers would be impacted more due to basically developing for 2 platforms now.
I think we'll just get used to this in time. Development cycle may take longer than it already is though.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't understand this response. He said "most" devs. The only N3DS games of note seem to be Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors. One is an actual exclusive that was promote as such before launch, and the other is a "might as well be an exclusive." Both are first party releases.
Oooh boy. If this is the attitude to expect from these threads, console wars are gonna get incredibly nasty again.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
exactly. for all we know their dislike of PS4.5 is based off the GENERAL IDEA and not this new GiantBomb information leak. until they have SDK's in their hands and a full rundown of how it's all going to move forward, i don't really care what they think at this point in time.
Stating a fact is attitude now? And now THIS post sounds like it has attitude. Damn it. LOL.
It will result in more longevity out of the PS4, but that's not a good thing, as it means the PS4 will be even more sorely underpowered by generations end, and the PS4K will still be held back by the PS4. 5-6 year cycles are ideal, not only do you get great value for money out of a console, along with consistent pure closed platform focus for it, but the next generation console provides a bigger jump in tech and performance, and is held back by older games and technologies for less time.
recklesscognition
Member
NX must be AMAZING
Well we are in an age of ultra scale able game engines that now that work on mid range mobile devices all the way up to top end pc's. So its not exactly inconceivable for a console to still be relevant for ~2-3 hardware refreshes. with each refresh being ~2-3 years
just like the ps3 and 360 were then?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-far-cry-3-face-off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wTbxWxkThc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwD2ty2UfBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopiqKacEP0
and thats just looking at framerate so many games started drastically dropping the resolution.
ofcourse there are many great examples fo where this doesnt happen, the 1st party stuff on both platforms are mostly all strong performers. But the power of the previous gen was really being stretched thin by the end of last gen.
Firmus_Anguis
Banned
Where did he say that? I must've missed it. But your scenario is just as unfounded. You can't say for sure that they won't be chugging along - And you can't possibly blame me for that interpertation, based on Osiris' quote.
And insiders have been right plenty of times as well... Again, Bish vouching for him lends credence to his story. I wish I shared your positive outlook. And I sure as fuck hope I'm wrong about this. But I guess we'll see.
Your "facts" are cherrypicked and aren't better than someone else bringing up the many bad ports we have had this generation.
Psychoward
Banned
It's not a fact, you compared the XB1 to last gen ports as if they were equivalent hardware. Look at last gen shadow of mordor or watch dogs or black ops 3 for what considerable sacrifices actually entails. Those consoles had large install bases as well.
still holding out hope microsoft does not go through with this
Glorified G
Member
Both Giant Bomb & DF has said the PS4K/Neo documentation doesn't state anything at all about PSVR and we've already had 2 years of PSVR titles demonstrated to the public at 60fps/90fps reprojected to 120.
If the 60fps requirement really was putting a big strain on the PS4 not only we would be seeing mutiple reports of users getting sick in comparison to Oculus & Vive but also the documentation wouldn't have stated that devs are required to develop for both the Neo and the base model.
dgrdsv
Member
The complain here is that at some point the industry may basically stop producing anything which I'd like to buy because everyone will be busy producing the crap which you've listed. People seem to not get that the console industry isn't really growing and most of these "new" things are subtracting from whatever resources the industry have in hope that they will expand the market. But each time it's a flop means that more and more resources were spent on something pointless instead of spending them on something which I'd buy - i.e. new good games.
Psychoward
Banned
+ large demand actually exists because more than half the install base didn't buy the console the year before the next iteration
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah... except Evolution just got shut down and this was before the inevitable increase in budget that a new console brings.