The Case for the PS4K: an important, and necessary, change for the industry.

With this new cycle, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The PS4 is also the PS4K, and is probably the PS5 too. When the PS4K launches, it will already have a userbase of over 40 million players. It already has all of the developmental tools that have matured and strengthened over the last few years. There's no risk to building the next big online game late in the PS4 future, because the transition over to the new system is built into the ecosystem. This is a huge, huge benefit to game development.

What does this even mean?

When the PS4K launches it'll have a userbase of 0. PS4K users will have a large game library to pick from (shared with the PS4), but developers will just have additional hardware to develop for. The development tools come down to the architecture, not a mid-gen upgrade.

If it were considered a console all its own the NEO basically has backwards compatability and the limitation of forwards compatability - having to have all its games play on the previous console also. The console transition in building the next big online game is simplified, but the development is vastly complicated as that game is anchored by the limitations of the previous console.
 
If you own a gaming PC there's usually 1 of 2 incentives to do so:

1. To play PC exclusive games
2. To play multiplatform games at the highest possible quality

Sony's solution to #2 is to sell you a box with all of the console downsides (pay to use your own internet connection, closed platform, no third party stores), but none of the goodness that the PC solution gives you (free multiplayer, open platform, a gazillion competing stores).

TBH I think the only reason that Sony wants to put this out is so that their VR headset doesn't get left in the dust by the big boys. That, and they would love to sell you another $400-500 box.

So basically consoles still suck. Or... it's still a console.

Cool story bro. Next.
 
The downsides are too big imo.

I'll vote with my wallet against this no matter what. Could easily see myself ignoring the PS4 and Xbox upgrades completely at least until a proper generation starts, I'll just go with Nintendo + PC from here on.

If this becomes the norm with all three console makers, what if you're the typical day 1 multi console owner, are you supposed to buy all upgrades?
With 2 iterations per console at $399 you would pay $2400 per generation.
 
I must be in the minority here. I think MS and Sony made huge mistakes in the hardware design, and produced an underwhelming architecture. They should have been nailing 1080p/60fps from the start as a minimum standard.

If you want to go down the mid-cycle upgrade route, then make the CPU, GPU and RAM into upgradable modules, within the same chasis, and bare bones system.

This all makes me remember the good ole days in the late 80s and early 90s, Atari STFM -> STE and Amiga OCS -> ECS -> AGA.

We didn't see a whole lot of new software that would take advantage of those extra features.

The PS4 Neo just screams, "oh crap, our original PS4 can't handle PS VR like we want it too."

About 30 million PS4's have just been crapped all over by a big fat bird flying overhead.

At least Nintendo did patent the additional processing upgrade box. That connects to the base unit, increasing/enhancing the existing CPU/GPU/RAM features. At least, if thats true, its just an upgrade to the same base unit.

Just my honest opinion.
 
The downsides are too big imo.

I'll vote with my wallet against this no matter what. Could easily see myself ignoring the PS4 and Xbox upgrades completely at least until a proper generation starts, I'll just go with Nintendo + PC from here on.

If this becomes the norm with all three console makers, what if you're the typical day 1 multi console owner, are you supposed to buy all upgrades?
With 2 iterations per console at $399 you would pay $2400 per generation.
I am having a hard time weeding out the troll posts from legitimate reservations.

I'm scared to answer for looking like a fool, but: no - you are missing the point.
 
The downsides are too big imo.

I'll vote with my wallet against this no matter what. Could easily see myself ignoring the PS4 and Xbox upgrades completely at least until a proper generation starts, I'll just go with Nintendo + PC from here on.

If this becomes the norm with all three console makers, what if you're the typical day 1 multi console owner, are you supposed to buy all upgrades?
With 2 iterations per console at $399 you would pay $2400 per generation.

Your not forced to do anything. That's the point. You can buy one, buy the other, it doesn't matter.
I must be in the minority here. I think MS and Sony made huge mistakes in the hardware design, and produced an underwhelming architecture. They should have been nailing 1080p/60fps from the start as a minimum standard.

If you want to go down the mid-cycle upgrade route, then make the CPU, GPU and RAM into upgradable modules, within the same chasis, and bare bones system.

This all makes me remember the good ole days in the late 80s and early 90s, Atari STFM -> STE and Amiga OCS -> ECS -> AGA.

We didn't see a whole lot of new software that would take advantage of those extra features.

The PS4 Neo just screams, "oh crap, our original PS4 can't handle PS VR like we want it too."

About 30 million PS4's have just been crapped all over by a big fat bird flying overhead.

Just my honest opinion.

Nobody cares that much about 60fps, so much as they care about consistent performance.
 
The downsides are too big imo.

I'll vote with my wallet against this no matter what. Could easily see myself ignoring the PS4 and Xbox upgrades completely at least until a proper generation starts, I'll just go with Nintendo + PC from here on.

If this becomes the norm with all three console makers, what if you're the typical day 1 multi console owner, are you supposed to buy all upgrades?
With 2 iterations per console at $399 you would pay $2400 per generation.

So you never upgrade your PC then?
 
I must be in the minority here. I think MS and Sony made huge mistakes in the hardware design, and produced an underwhelming architecture. They should have been nailing 1080p/60fps from the start as a minimum standard.

If you want to go down the mid-cycle upgrade route, then make the CPU, GPU and RAM into upgradable modules, within the same chasis, and bare bones system.

This all makes me remember the good ole days in the late 80s and early 90s, Atari STFM -> STE and Amiga OCS -> ECS -> AGA.

We didn't see a whole lot of new software that would take advantage of those extra features.

The PS4 Neo just screams, "oh crap, our original PS4 can't handle PS VR like we want it too."

About 30 million PS4's have just been crapped all over by a big fat bird flying overhead.

Just my honest opinion.
1080/60 is squarely on the devs. Period.

As for upgradeable boxes, we don't want those. We want closed and predictable hardware as devs.
 
If you own a gaming PC there's usually 1 of 2 incentives to do so:

1. To play PC exclusive games
2. To play multiplatform games at the highest possible quality

Sony's solution to #2 is to sell you a box with all of the console downsides (pay to use your own internet connection, closed platform, no third party stores), but none of the goodness that the PC solution gives you (free multiplayer, open platform, a gazillion competing stores).

TBH I think the only reason that Sony wants to put this out is so that their VR headset doesn't get left in the dust by the big boys. That, and they would love to sell you another $400-500 box.

I'm still not seeing the point of how this box is supposed to help PSVR.
 
1080/60 is squarely on the devs. Period.
Maybe, it all depends on how much you want to strip back out of the initial design. Ends up looking more like a high end game from the 360 and PS3 generation.

As for upgradeable boxes, we don't want those. We want closed and predictable hardware as devs.

The closed and predictable hardware didn't do much for the Atari STFM -> STE and Amiga OCS -> ECS -> AGA, as I recall.
 
I new console every 2-3 years is cool with me. As long as at least 2 models back are backwards compatible, I'm good. A trade in program would make it perfect.
 
Maybe, it all depends on how much you want to strip back out of the initial design. Ends up looking more like a high end game from the 360 and PS3 generation.



The closed and predictable hardware didn't do much for the Atari STFM -> STE and Amiga OCS -> ECS -> AGA, as I recall.
A) So? Have you not seen what good IQ and framerate can do for even old games?

B) I'm quoting Ferris Beuler in my head right now. You know "if you don't stop and take a look around..." yada yada.
 
Your not forced to do anything. That's the point. You can buy one, buy the other, it doesn't matter.
The typical day 1 buyers? They obviously don't want to sit with the lowend model, they want the latest and most powerful box day 1, so I don't see how they could suddenly become a fence-sitter until the next upgrade.
 
Before I would buy consoles day one.

Now, I will buy consoles on my predetermined schedule. The generation will last as long as I want it to last.

For me, that means a new console every 5 years. This will change if I become a millionaire or if they start subsidizing the consoles.

Are you serious??? Dont you know you HAVE to upgrade???

I'm on mobile right now and gaf's been down for me all day. I'll check out the OP later.

Its been down on desktop all day I think. I had to use a user agent switcher. If you use one, switch the user agent to a mobile device, not just mobile browser.

So begins the in-house console wars.

Pretty much. I see it all the time in Android land...ppl fighting over fav OEM, apps, custom ROMs, etc...lol It does make me wonder if it happens in Apple land with the iPhone versions.

The key here is the x86 architecture. All these consoles will be backwards compatible. Consoles have finally caught up with the market. Like PC gaming those that can afford the latest product can play game on ultra settings. Those that' don't care about graphics can still play the same game at lower setting with normal ps4. Games will always be there but the only difference is will you want to keep up with the latest.

Somehow its the death of consoles, its a bad idea...and yet PC gaming is surviving. I just dont get it...oh well.

Before Neo: Your gaming PC dumps all over your 2 year old console for most 3rd party games, but the consoles may have had exclusive games you wanted.

After Neo: Your gaming PC will dump all over consoles for most 3rd party games, but the consoles may have exclusive games you want.

What's changed?

The logic.
 
I'm still not seeing the point of how this box is supposed to help PSVR.

The people most likely to buy PSVR would be PS4K owners, or those interested in getting one at some point.

If the added power of PS4K enables even more compelling VR content to be made (more than 2x the power opens up WAY more opportunities), and there's enough owners, that can only help push PSVR.

His point about doing it because of the fear of "being left in the dust by the big boys" makes no sense though since the big boys will be selling in the thousands, while PSVR will be in the millions, PS4K or not.
 
The typical day 1 buyers? They obviously don't want to sit with the lowend model, they want the latest and most powerful box day 1, so I don't see how they could suddenly become a fence-sitter until the next upgrade.

Then wait, or don't wait. It is meaningless to worry about it. There were people who would wait until a slim version of a console to jump in, i'm not one of them
 
The downsides are too big imo.

I'll vote with my wallet against this no matter what. Could easily see myself ignoring the PS4 and Xbox upgrades completely at least until a proper generation starts, I'll just go with Nintendo + PC from here on.

If this becomes the norm with all three console makers, what if you're the typical day 1 multi console owner, are you supposed to buy all upgrades?
With 2 iterations per console at $399 you would pay $2400 per generation.

Considering Nintendo has flirted with this model multiple times, I find it hard to understand what solace you expect to find in their ecosystem.
 
So you never upgrade your PC then?
Yes when I can't tweak the games to run well anymore.
There is no tweeking on console though. If the devs think 25fps is fine for your old console then that's what you'll have unless you're upgrading.
 
All I see is how it's going to benefit the companies and not the consumers, paying $400 minimum for a console that is going to be outdated sooner than expected

It's only "outdated" if you're the type who gets hardcore anxiety from not having the newest piece of tat. And lord help those people if they decide to own a smartphone ever.

we now have to trust that we are going to get games that are not going to run like shit for the PS4 when they launch because they were tuned for the PS4k first and the ps4 second (We already have plenty of examples that this doesn't happen already and that's supposedly when the game is being made for the ps4 in mind).

You'll have to define what "run like shit" means. For some people, that means something as simple as "not as pretty as another version that exists", so a clarification is important here.

You can bet your ass that all games from now on will be shown off on the PS4k now with consumers going to have to wait for the game to actually be launched and impressions to come forth if they want to know how well the PS4 version runs.

So basically, nothing at all changes from how things are now then? People already do this comparing versions across console makers and PC, and marketing already uses bullshots and best versions to deceptively advertise anyways, so I'm not sure how this is going to be a negative inherent to this change when it's already a negative now.

And again, the only ones who suffer are the ones who aren't happy to just get the game and suffer inferiority complexes if a game doesn't look "the best" of all versions. Hopefully, this change in the industry might help put that to bed once and for all.

I'm getting this slight impression, and I could very well be wrong about this, that the ones most worried about this change and it creating "classism" among gamers are console warriors worried about turning their ire toward their own "faction", lest they expose their hypocrisy for criticizing people who don't own "the best" thing on the market.

Iterative consoles is the worst idea I have heard since MS's online only ideas. It's taking literally the pros of getting a console and ditching them.

Which pros are those exactly? I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding about why people buy consoles on the whole on GAF.
 
The same way it's done with generations now - how would it change?

The exception: perhaps now we will get consistency and predictability with what will release which gen and how long support will last. Now we can normalize the rate at which a new box releases with iterative updates. We technically could have before, but technology moves either too much or too little to pull the trigger at one point or another. With this, there's not much of a wait between iterations so you can always take advantage of current tech in a cost effective manner and still stay relevant.
That will become confusing af imo. With traditional generations, it is easier to know when a console will begin to lose the software support since there's already a pattern "If the Playstion X is current gen, Playstation X-1 is last gen and thus, Playstation X-1 will not be able to play games made for current gen." But if you move to the newer model, the "3 year console cycle, with system getting 6 years support," you need to spend time and effort educating and explaining customers why their consoles can't run some games, because they will assume they still can play newest games even after a new console is released (for example, PS4 users can play new games after PS4.5 is released => They will think they can play every single game => But that's not true because they can't play PS4.6 games => That's where confusion coming from). Not to mention the box will become a part of the confusion. Like, how do you sign a box art that tells whether or not your console will be supported. I don't think you can use "Only playable on PS..." because I imagine it will piss off a lot of people.
 
Then wait, or don't wait. It is meaningless to worry about it. There were people who would wait until a slim version of a console to jump in, i'm not one of them
The question was what you're supposed to do as a typical day 1 buyer though.
 
Reads like a marketing brochure

Personally I'm waiting to see what it actually is, what it actually costs and what are all the benefits before putting some kind of a "case for it"

I have to admit none of these rumours have gotten me excited or anything. What about the games? It seems games have taken a back seat this gen whilst resolution, VR, retailer exclusives and delays have been at the forefront.

Easily the most disappointing generation for me so far.
 
Yes when I can't tweak the games to run well anymore.
There is no tweeking on console though. If the devs think 25fps is fine for your old console then that's what you'll have unless you're upgrading.

And now you have an option to upgrade instead of being stuck at 25 FPS if the devs think it is fine.

Of course, I am a little easier with it because I was planning on picking up a second PS4 anyway.
 
So devs need to add a PS4K mode for each previous games and new games need to have 2 modes in the future .
Do you thinK devs will do that?
 
.

You cannot maintain forward comparability forever. What happens when a developer wants to take advantage of the 16GB RAM on the PS5? What happens to consumer confusion regarding what games are supported on which platforms? What happens with the level of a playing field if an online game runs significantly better on one system than another?


This.

It seems limiting to developers. It sounds like a potential nightmare for small devs.

How is this going to be handled in the future? Yearly models or more mid-gen refreshes?




Furthermore, do the masses see the value in this if it plays the same games? What happens if it fails?
 
The question was what you're supposed to do as a typical day 1 buyer though.

Enjoy the console you bought.

I dont understand how people think early adopters are some privilaged species that should always be taken care of.

The advantage of being a day 1 buyer is that you are one of the first to play. Thats it. If that is not good enough for you, dont be a day 1 buyer.

We would laugh at someone who complained that a game got better content with patches months after they bought it, but outside of cost, whats the difference?
 
So devs need to add a PS4K mode for each previous games and new games need to have 2 modes in the future .
Do you thinK devs will do that?

Won't devs need to put on their PC hat since PC has different configurations? A little easier since only two configs unless you count Nintendo ans Xbox.
 
Interesting read OP, thought I'd chime in. I've moved a few things around to make it easier to reply.

...This is, in fact, completely antithetical to the industry at large. Everything is improving yearly. New computers, new Blu-Ray players, new cars, new TVs, new blenders, and yes, new smartphones and tablets. But not game consoles...
While certainly true, the question that should be asked isn't "why?", because the answer is obvious in a smart-phone-iteration world. The question we need to ask is: "why now?" The fact is that the rate of improvement for the technologies that the video game industry uses is largely slowing down, as you note below. During the PS2 generation, a mid-gen revision would have made sense in terms of staying relevant, because the sheer degree of technological improvement available within that time was enormous. Instead, we got the PS2 Slim, to prevent user-base fracture, while dropping manufacturing costs. Contrasted with today, the improvements available are so small, the only thing we're really able say that the new hardware will provide are slightly better resolutions and slightly better frame-rates. I don't believe Sony are trying to keep their hardware relevant, or adapt to a change in the market. They're simply scrambling to find reasons to get PS4 owners to buy more hardware while still netting new consumers, and a small hardware upgrade is the best they could find. Sony's financial situation is well known, and Playstation is currently its crown jewel. I believe Sony is doubling down on Playstation, because it is currently it's best proven chance of profitability. The PS4K makes perfect sense from Sony's point of view, but little sense from anyone else's.

Generational Loyalty
...In a cycle that encourages players to slash ties with where they were coming from to a new platform that has everything they're looking for, how do you make sure that customers are tied down to a brand, or at least, have less of a reason to abandon it in favor of the other guys?

The way to do that is to blur the line of product cycles...

... So what does that leave us with? A brand new console, coming way sooner than anyone has expected, that changes a generational cycle into a constantly refreshed cycle. No longer are there gaps in these product generations that allow for consumers to jump to other platforms, at least not one that's easily discernible. You probably didn't know it at the time, but that copy of Knack you bought in 2013 will be playable in 2023, on new hardware...
I understand your point, however I largely disagree with it. "Generational loyalty" is a by-product of limited means. People buy one console, because most households don't have enough disposable income to purchase multiple boxes. The PS4k is not responding to this market. The best example of my point is the PS2 Slim, which was a perfect response to the market. The "slim" edition was cheaper to manufacture, and thus Sony could price it quite cheaply, enabling more people to buy in. House holds that couldn't afford two consoles now could, and Sony sold a significant number of them, driving software sales. In contrast, a hardware upgrade keeps the price high without the drop in manufacturing costs. Dropping the current PS4 in price to fill the 'slim' gap while releasing objectively superior hardware damages good will for short term gains. This is because, if console manufacturers are hoping for multiple hardware purchases more often, consumers will quickly find the path of least resistance. It's the nature of the market. And that's pretty simple in this case: its better value for me to buy an NX over a PS4K if looking for new hardware, because Sony have guaranteed that my PS4 can do everything a PS4K can do. Because a PS4k will not provide improvements to the games I own and play today, whereas an NX provides a new library and potentially superior multi-plat versions, it's the smarter purchase. In my opinion, Sony are actually banking on brand loyalty to drive their mid-generation revisions amongst their fans, while using the strong word of mouth from the PS4, and promise of objectively better hardware to entice new people to buy-in.

... And that's the whole point of the PS4K: in an age where tech advances are slowing to a point where a technological leap is impossible without a high cost or a long wait, companies have to change up this cycle...

Will consumers actually wait until 2022 to get a generational leap in graphics at a consumer friendly price? What if they didn't have to wait?...
You're point here is largely confused, I feel. Consumers aren't after "new hardware" when buying a new console. They're after new games, and a clear, demonstrable generational leap in them when buying in. The hardware is the gateway to that. We've seen clear, demonstrable impacts of this, with the PS3 being the most recent, and the 3DS being a solid second example. The PS4k provides literally none of this. It provides the same games, only with improvements that are going to be largely difficult to spot short of extensive YouTube breakdowns, and largely misunderstood by mainstream consumers. The PS4k isn't filling a need, and it isn't responding to the market.

...Think about how unfriendly the current generational lifecycle is for the average consumer. They can either come in too early at high adopter prices and a slow start of game releases, or right in the middle where sales peak and deals are good, or come it at the end, where support will soon be ending for the system and mere years or even months are left for game releases. If they don't hit that sweet spot, they can be left holding the bag on a system that has been essentially abandoned in favor of the all new console...
Again, I think you're point is largely confused. You're painting a picture that of a situation that doesn't exist, where virtually no one is happy and the poor consumers need a change. The demonstration that is false is that literally hundreds of millions of people buy in over the course of a generation, and have been doing so for nearly eight full generations now. Clearly, something works, and consumers like it because they keep coming back. This is because buying a console is the single most cost effective way to play video games, bar none. A single hardware purchase can set you up with prime support for AAA releases for six years, with a library of games numbering in the thousands. It's simply a fantastic value proposition. Consumers simply choose when the proposition is the best value for them. Buying in at the start of the PS4 was a good decision for me, because I've spent literally thousands of hours with my PS4. Buying a PS2 at the end of its generation was a good decision for me, because I got cheap access to entire generation of incredible games at bargain bin prices. The PS4K works to counter this, with my hardware purchase costing the same, but only receiving prime support for three years. After that, I may be supported, but if I want the best support, I need to buy-in again at the same high price, which only buys me another three years of prime support. The value proposition halves. As I mentioned above, this is a great deal for Sony, but a bad deal for everyone else.


...We're starting to pivot into the idea of games as a service... It is dependant on one thing, really: a healthy userbase to get users from, which is easily disrupted by a generational gap... If the PS4K does not exist, and the PS5 creates this chasm as all generation leaps do, then what can you do? Develop for the PS4, and have tools in place to bridge the gap to the PS5 when it comes out? This is essentially what Destiny is doing, but it comes at a major cost, something that Activision and probably other major publishers like EA and Ubisoft can support, but few others can... With this new cycle, you don't have to worry about that anymore. The PS4 is also the PS4K, and is probably the PS5 too. When the PS4K launches, it will already have a userbase of over 40 million players. It already has all of the developmental tools that have matured and strengthened over the last few years. There's no risk to building the next big online game late in the PS4 future, because the transition over to the new system is built into the ecosystem. This is a huge, huge benefit to game development...
I'm going to have to question your experience with game development here, because the PS4k creates more problems than it solves, that have far longer impacts than a simple PS5 generational leap would. The examples you used to highlight your point actually demonstrate this issue, but you appear to have missed them. You're arguing that only the biggest publishers can afford to do handle multi-generational development, while missing that only the biggest publishers can offer games like Destiny and The Division.

In order to demonstrate the issue that the PS4k creates, let's use Destiny. This was a multi-platform, multi-generational title. The game worked, with scaled back visuals, on the PS3 and Xbox 360. This held back the next generation versions from using the new hardware to its fullest, required four full QA sweeps, and required additional development houses to actually craft those versions. But they sold additional copies on the 360 and PS3, which offset the expenditure. And herein lies the problem: the PS4k is expensive new hardware that can't be used but must be accounted for without creating new revenue for the developer. Assuming a similar situation with the PS5, developers and publishers QA costs double instantly, and they can't even use the new hardware properly, because the older hardware is a platform-holder-mandated anchor around its neck that must be taken into account during the software feasibility, frame budgeting, and software engineering phases. Sure, you might save Bungie a headache or two, but you create a permanent, unmoving, costly headache for every other developer in the industry, without creating a pay off. Once again, the PS4k is a wonderful move for Sony, and a terrible move for everyone else.

Wave of Anger
Certainly there will be anger to come with this news; it's already happening, but then again, it always happens with everything. The internet amplifies everything to a degree that it becomes somewhat impossible to measure the actual consumer response to things until they're released...
I don't believe this is true at all. Multi-billion dollar corporations do not launch products with the R&D costs of a console and just "hope". They're calculated moves. The internet only confuses a consumer response if you don't actually move outside of closed circles such as NeoGAF. The response for the PS4k is pretty clear. If you want to know if a consumer response will be positive or negative, you just need to understand if the product represents a positive or negative proposition for the consumer. The PS4k straddles the line: its a negative impact on current PS4 owners, but a terrific proposition for potential new owners. Sony are calculating that the amount of new business they can generate will outpace the disgruntled customers they'll incur. Microsoft made similar calculations with their original Xbone plans. Hopefully Sony get the math right.

... But the time for disruptive product cycles is over. There's too much risk involved, with game budgets more expensive than ever, and other markets increasingly eating away at each other. There was a lot of debate before this generation launched on whether or not there was even a market for game consoles anymore as the PS3 and 360 quickly plummeted in sales. The PS4 answered that question with a resounding yes. I wonder what answers the PS4K will bring.
You might not have heard of VR, which promises fast iterations and hugely disruptive technologies like foveated rendering. You're point is demonstrably false.

The arguments you've put forth seem to boil down to: current situation is bad for consumers, new situation is better for consumers. However, as I've hopefully demonstrated, the exact opposite is true. This is why there is a negative push against iterative hardware models in the console space: you're asking consumers to pay double the money to get what they've always had, and providing literally zero incentives to consumers to sweeten the deal. The best you've been able to offer is "its better for developers", which I've shown to be false. The PS4k is a great deal for people who don't own a PS4, and a great business opportunity for Sony. For everyone else, be they current PS4 owners, developers, or publishers, the PS4k creates a headache that isn't responding to market forces or consumer demand. It's only reason for being is for Sony to sell more hardware. And it will certainly sell, because its an objectively superior piece of hardware. But the problems it introduces could up burning bridges with Sony's most loyal, dedicated fans, that showed up in droves to support Sony when it was "for the players". Microsoft imploded the Xbox brand with a similar gamble. Time will tell, but currently, I'm not seeing the case for the PS4k.
 
Pretty one sided article, you don't even touch on any of the potential negatives.

You cannot maintain forward comparability forever.

Yes, you can. PC world is doing it (with a few exceptions) for more than 30 years. Emulation of old OS (Dosbox), launchers, etc.

What happens when a developer wants to take advantage of the 16GB RAM on the PS5?

Just do it. Label the game as PS5 (and foward) exclusive. Or make it compatible with PS4 and add extra resolution, effects, etc on PS5.

What happens to consumer confusion regarding what games are supported on which platforms?

No confusion. Brand each game box as "PS4 and foward" or "PS5 and foward". Stated clearly the advantages the game has in higher systems at the back of the box. Stick with your console brand. Don't created names as SuperNES, Nintendo 64, Gamecube, Wii. Those days are over. Xbox 1,2,3. Playstation 1,2,3,4 and so. The customer must know which system is the newer and most powerfull one by its name alone.

What happens with the level of a playing field if an online game runs significantly better on one system than another?

Again, ask the pc guys.

How can you afford constant R&D costs if you aren't selling Apple numbers?

This is always the case, console makers (and any electronic device maker by the way) have always an active R&D. What you cannot effort is tve luxury of staying behind the competition by not planning ahead all the time.[/QUOTE]

What happens to firmware updates when the PS4 is holding back PS5.5's operation or security?

Not sure what you are saying here. Any network has different user devices and have to handle it.
 
I don't think anyone is expecting forward comparability forever. Not even sure where you got this from. There's no way that the game developed ten years from now will run on PS4. It might run on PS4.5. That's the whole idea.

The great aspect of this model is that the game you bought today will work on a playstation in 10 years.
 
In order to demonstrate the issue that the PS4k creates, let's use Destiny. This was a multi-platform, multi-generational title. The game worked, with scaled back visuals, on the PS3 and Xbox 360. This held back the next generation versions from using the new hardware to its fullest, required four full QA sweeps, and required additional development houses to actually craft those versions. And herein lies the problem: the PS4k is expensive new hardware that can't be used but must be accounted for without creating new revenue for the developer. Assuming a similar situation with the PS5, developers and publishers QA costs double instantly, and they can't even use the new hardware properly, because the older hardware is a platform-holder-mandated anchor around its neck that must be taken into account during the software feasibility, frame budgeting, and software engineering phases. Sure, you might save Bungie a headache or two, but you create a permanent, unmoving, costly headache for every other developer in the industry, without creating a pay off. Once again, the PS4k is a wonderful move for Sony, and a terrible move for everyone else.


Thank you. Well said. Actually
this whole post is spot on
 
Interesting read OP, thought I'd chime in. I've moved a few things around to make it easier to reply.


While certainly true, the question that should be asked isn't "why?", because the answer is obvious in a smart-phone-iteration world. The question we need to ask is: "why now?" The fact is that the rate of improvement for the technologies that the video game industry uses is largely slowing down, as you note below. During the PS2 generation, a mid-gen revision would have made sense in terms of staying relevant, because the sheer degree of technological improvement available within that time was enormous. Instead, we got the PS2 Slim, to prevent user-base fracture, while dropping manufacturing costs. Contrasted with today, the improvements available are so small, the only thing we're really able say that the new hardware will provide are slightly better resolutions and slightly better frame-rates. I don't believe Sony are trying to keep their hardware relevant, or adapt to a change in the market. They're simply scrambling to find reasons to get PS4 owners to buy more hardware while still netting new consumers, and a small hardware upgrade is the best they could find. Sony's financial situation is well known, and Playstation is currently its crown jewel. I believe Sony is doubling down on Playstation, because it is currently it's best proven chance of profitability. The PS4K makes perfect sense from Sony's point of view, but little sense from anyone else's.


I understand your point, however I largely disagree with it. "Generational loyalty" is a by-product of limited means. People buy one console, because most households don't have enough disposable income to purchase multiple boxes. The PS4k is not responding to this market. The best example of my point is the PS2 Slim, which was a perfect response to the market. The "slim" edition was cheaper to manufacture, and thus Sony could price it quite cheaply, enabling more people to buy in. House holds that couldn't afford two consoles now could, and Sony sold a significant number of them, driving software sales. In contrast, a hardware upgrade keeps the price high without the drop in manufacturing costs. Dropping the current PS4 in price to fill the 'slim' gap while releasing objectively superior hardware damages good will for short term gains. This is because, if console manufacturers are hoping for multiple hardware purchases more often, consumers will quickly find the path of least resistance. It's the nature of the market. And that's pretty simple in this case: its better value for me to buy an NX over a PS4K if looking for new hardware, because Sony have guaranteed that my PS4 can do everything a PS4K can do. Because a PS4k will not provide improvements to the games I own and play today, whereas an NX provides a new library and potentially superior multi-plat versions, it's the smarter purchase. In my opinion, Sony are actually banking on brand loyalty to drive their mid-generation revisions amongst their fans, while using the strong word of mouth from the PS4, and promise of objectively better hardware to entice new people to buy-in.


You're point here is largely confused, I feel. Consumers aren't after "new hardware" when buying a new console. They're after new games, and a clear, demonstrable generational leap in them when buying in. The hardware is the gateway to that. We've seen clear, demonstrable impacts of this, with the PS3 being the most recent, and the 3DS being a solid second example. The PS4k provides literally none of this. It provides the same games, only with improvements that are going to be largely difficult to spot short of extensive YouTube breakdowns, and largely misunderstood by mainstream consumers. The PS4k isn't filling a need, and it isn't responding to the market.


Again, I think you're point is largely confused. You're painting a picture that of a situation that doesn't exist, where virtually no one is happy and the poor consumers need a change. The demonstration that is false is that literally hundreds of millions of people buy in over the course of a generation, and have been doing so for nearly eight full generations now. Clearly, something works, and consumers like it because they keep coming back. This is because buying a console is the single most cost effective way to play video games, bar none. A single hardware purchase can set you up with prime support for AAA releases for six years, with a library of games numbering in the thousands. It's simply a fantastic value proposition. Consumers simply choose when the proposition is the best value for them. Buying in at the start of the PS4 was a good decision for me, because I've spent literally thousands of hours with my PS4. Buying a PS2 at the end of its generation was a good decision for me, because I got cheap access to entire generation of incredible games at bargain bin prices. The PS4K works to counter this, with my hardware purchase costing the same, but only receiving prime support for three years. After that, I may be supported, but if I want the best support, I need to buy-in again at the same high price, which only buys me another three years of prime support. The value proposition halves. As I mentioned above, this is a great deal for Sony, but a bad deal for everyone else.



I'm going to have to question your experience with game development here, because the PS4k creates more problems than it solves, that have far longer impacts than a simple PS5 generational leap would. The examples you used to highlight your point actually demonstrate this issue, but you appear to have missed them. You're arguing that only the biggest publishers can afford to do handle multi-generational development, while missing that only the biggest publishers can offer games like Destiny and The Division.

In order to demonstrate the issue that the PS4k creates, let's use Destiny. This was a multi-platform, multi-generational title. The game worked, with scaled back visuals, on the PS3 and Xbox 360. This held back the next generation versions from using the new hardware to its fullest, required four full QA sweeps, and required additional development houses to actually craft those versions. And herein lies the problem: the PS4k is expensive new hardware that can't be used but must be accounted for without creating new revenue for the developer. Assuming a similar situation with the PS5, developers and publishers QA costs double instantly, and they can't even use the new hardware properly, because the older hardware is a platform-holder-mandated anchor around its neck that must be taken into account during the software feasibility, frame budgeting, and software engineering phases. Sure, you might save Bungie a headache or two, but you create a permanent, unmoving, costly headache for every other developer in the industry, without creating a pay off. Once again, the PS4k is a wonderful move for Sony, and a terrible move for everyone else.


I don't believe this is true at all. Multi-billion dollar corporations do not launch products with the R&D costs of a console and just "hope". They're calculated moves. The internet only confuses a consumer response if you don't actually move outside of closed circles such as NeoGAF. The response for the PS4k is pretty clear. If you want to know if a consumer response will be positive or negative, you just need to understand if the product represents a positive or negative proposition for the consumer. The PS4k straddles the line: its a negative impact on current PS4 owners, but a terrific proposition for potential new owners. Sony are calculating that the amount of new business they can generate will outpace the disgruntled customers they'll incur. Microsoft made similar calculations with their original Xbone plans. Hopefully Sony get the math right.


You might not have heard of VR, which promises fast iterations and hugely disruptive technologies like foveated rendering. You're point is demonstrably false.

The arguments you've put forth seem to boil down to: current situation is bad for consumers, new situation is better for consumers. However, as I've hopefully demonstrated, the exact opposite is true. This is why there is a negative push against iterative hardware models in the console space: you're asking consumers to pay double the money to get what they've always had, and providing literally zero incentives to consumers to sweeten the deal. The best you've been able to offer is "its better for developers", which I've shown to be false. The PS4k is a great deal for people who don't own a PS4, and a great business opportunity for Sony. For everyone else, be they current PS4 owners, developers, or publishers, the PS4k creates a headache that isn't responding to market forces or consumer demand. It's only reason for being is for Sony to sell more hardware. And it will certainly sell, because its an objectively superior piece of hardware. But the problems it introduces could up burning bridges with Sony's most loyal, dedicated fans, that showed up in droves to support Sony when it was "for the players". Microsoft imploded the Xbox brand with a similar gamble. Time will tell, but currently, I'm not seeing the case for the PS4k.

Its taken a while, but im finally reading a case against PS4k that actually is well argued.

I wholeheartly agree with most of what you have said here, but I do still feel that there is a market invested in the PS4 ecosystem that this change does benefit.

That said, I can only speak for the PS4 ecosystem. I cannnot guarantee id feel the same about an iterative ps5 or ps5.5.

Regardless, I think its totally fair to say this benefits Sony more than anyone. They make people more reluctant to leave their ecosystem, they continue to have the wow factor that brings in fresh custom, they continue to keep their ASP high on hardware and they continue to collect royalties on games that would otherwise be abandoned years from now.

I have already said, I find it hard to say this is the future for the industry and no offense to Chubs, I dont really find that the needs of devs and the need of the consumer to be something thats always on the same page anyway.

I think ultimately, people should wait and see how all this plays out.
 
The constant comparisons to smartphones make little sense. Smartphones are incredibly important to people's everyday lives and have become a huge factor in modern communication. Hundreds of millions of people use them for several hours every single day everywhere they go. Carriers and companies have tried many different ways in getting these multi-hundred dollar devices to as many people as possible, hence upgrade plans, contracts, etc.

Game consoles, on the other hand, are still limited use specialty devices tethered to a TV and plugged to a wall. They're not needed for your everyday communication, you don't use them to check your email, etc., and Sony is very likely to not have an upgrade path in place, expecting people to plop down hundreds upfront. These aren't minute details, they're pretty integral in the success of smartphones and why people wanted new ones every year.
 
to me that just means i won't buy as many consoles or as early

i usually buy consoles at launch, and it tends to be at least 2, not counting slim revisions, one for my living room and one for bedroom, this new model pretty much means i will treat consoles like mobile phones, maybe one upgrade every two gens/iterations
 
That will become confusing af imo. With traditional generations, it is easier to know when a console will begin to lose the software support since there's already a pattern "If the Playstion X is current gen, Playstation X-1 is last gen and thus, Playstation X-1 will not be able to play games made for current gen." But if you move to the newer model, the "3 year console cycle, with system getting 6 years support," you need to spend time and effort educating and explaining customers why their consoles can't run some games, because they will assume they still can play newest games even after a new console is released (for example, PS4 users can play new games after PS4.5 is released => They will think they can play every single game => But that's not true because they can't play PS4.6 games => That's where confusion coming from). Not to mention the box will become a part of the confusion. Like, how do you sign a box art that tells whether or not your console will be supported. I don't think you can use "Only playable on PS..." because I imagine it will piss off a lot of people.
Considering every PC game may launch with different minimum requirements in the same month or how Operating systems lock down features to new OSs, right?

Yeah. This is totally new for the consumer. They are too stupid to understand how to read a requirement on a box "for PS4 and PS Neo". Totally confusing. /s
 
Not necessarily. I think to a certain degree it is aimed at the hardcore, but it is also aimed as a Trojan Horse for Sony and 4k Blu Ray. Sony is one of the biggest supporters and makers of UHD Sets, but isn't it odd that they are one of the only players without an announced UHD Blu Ray Player? I have a few friends that work at Best Buy and they are reporting that the Samsung UHD player is selling like crazy due to them having the only player out. From what I have read Panasonic is going to release a player soon as well and they don't even have any of their 2016 UHD TV sets available in the U.S.

The NEO is aimed at the consumer that wants a higher end product and that also has a UHD Blu Ray player. If the $399.99 price sticks and it does come with the UHD player, that is the same price of the Samsung, plus you get a console in it as well. The NEO is going to be the box that makes people think twice before choosing. Do I go with (at the time most likely) $299.99 PS4 or spend and extra $100 and go for the Neo that also has a UHD player?

So while I believe to a certain degree that the NEO is aimed at hardcore, it is also aimed at the everyday consumer that wants the higher end gear and with the adoption of 4k TV's, Sony will have a sure fire hit with this unit. The thing also won't be a hard sell to a consumer. A $100.00 difference for better gaming performance and a UHD player is nothing to sneeze at and imho many would choose to go with the higher priced unit because of what you get with it..that is if all this is true anyways!
Agreed I also think a lot of people are looking at only the gaming side and not the potential of a ps4k with a UHD player.Also that Sony has a new 4k streaming service Ultra coming April and psvue that one day could be in 4K.
 
The people most likely to buy PSVR would be PS4K owners, or those interested in getting one at some point.

If the added power of PS4K enables even more compelling VR content to be made (more than 2x the power opens up WAY more opportunities), and there's enough owners, that can only help push PSVR.

His point about doing it because of the fear of "being left in the dust by the big boys" makes no sense though since the big boys will be selling in the thousands, while PSVR will be in the millions, PS4K or not.

Without the ability to make games exclusive to PS4k, there aren't going to be many that can even really leverage its power for better VR experiences.
 
The constant comparisons to smartphones make little sense. Smartphones are incredibly important to people's everyday lives and have become a huge factor in modern communication. Hundreds of millions of people use them for several hours every single day everywhere they go. Carriers and companies have tried many different ways in getting these multi-hundred dollar devices to as many people as possible, hence upgrade plans, contracts, etc.

Game consoles, on the other hand, are still limited use specialty devices tethered to a TV and plugged to a wall. They're not needed for your everyday communication, you don't use them to check your email, etc., and Sony is very likely to not have an upgrade path in place, expecting people to plop down hundreds upfront. These aren't minute details, they're pretty integral in the success of smartphones and why people wanted new ones every year.

Yeah, I don't get why they are comparing to smartphones that people get free or at most $200 with a 2 year contract. A console will never meet that kind of almost "necessity" that smartphones have become to people now.


Im a PC gamer who wasted money on a PS4 to be quite honest. I own some of the games exclusive to the system/consoles (Infamous, Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Destiny), and aside from Until Dawn I wasn't really impressed. My tastes have changed I guess.
 
You're about to be able to buy a 4TFLOP console that can render some games in 4K & people are really crying about this? lol
 
Yes, you can. PC world is doing it (with a few exceptions) for more than 30 years. Emulation of old OS (Dosbox), launchers, etc.



Just do it. Label the game as PS5 (and foward) exclusive. Or make it compatible with PS4 and add extra resolution, effects, etc on PS5.



No confusion. Brand each game box as "PS4 and foward" or "PS5 and foward". Stated clearly the advantages the game has in higher systems at the back of the box. Stick with your console brand. Don't created names as SuperNES, Nintendo 64, Gamecube, Wii. Those days are over. Xbox 1,2,3. Playstation 1,2,3,4 and so. The customer must know which system is the newer and most powerfull one by its name alone.



Again, ask the pc guys.



This is always the case, console makers (and any electronic device maker by the way) have always an active R&D. What you cannot effort is tve luxury of staying behind the competition by not planning ahead all the time.

Not sure what you are saying here. Any network has different user devices and have to handle it.
Level playing field online on pc? Someone hasn't played a pc game online before. As far as I'm concerned, one of the main benefits of consoles for me is the fact that it evens the playing field. Same hardware, same input devices and the main differentiator is skill. On pc? Nope and I say this as someone who owns a gaming pc.
 
there is no level playing field online in pc games. Someone always has a higher mouse dps/sensitivity, macro, setting tweak, framerate, resolution, etc.
 
You're about to be able to buy a 4TFLOP console that can render some games in 4K & people are really crying about this? lol

I love technology as much as anyone but
right now it's the wrong move imo

missed-the-point.png
 
Level playing field online on pc? Someone hasn't played a pc game online before. As far as I'm concerned, one of the main benefits of consoles for me is the fact that it evens the playing field. Same hardware, same input devices and the main differentiator is skill. On pc? Nope and I say this as someone who owns a gaming pc.

This also changing with or without PS4k plus there other factors like internet speed, tv lag etc etc
Also as cross platform play becomes more popular this going change either way .
 

What is the point? people don't want others to have something better than their's even though they can also get that new product?


The problem is only in your mind because the truth is you still have the same thing that you paid for & you're going to get the same thing out of it as you would have if the new console didn't come out.
 
Top Bottom