Microsoft To Unveil Full Natal Lineup @ E3

Hanmik said:
I always thought that E3 was for the core gamer.. so why waste a good opportunity with Natal and Arc..? it´s not like mr. and mrs. Jones are lining up to watch the show.. Do Microsoft and Sony really think that the gamers that attend and watch E3 shows, really care about a new Natal Fit or a new Samba de Sony..?
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STFU with this core gamer shit please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZ8ERI4x98

Do yourself a favor and watch that all the way to the end where the sign at the end of the line just puts an exclamation point on the whole thing.
Then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeR0fL9ofYY&NR=1 to realize how silly you sound. You super small insignificant unimportant audience that have coined yourselves 'core gamers' arent the majority even at an event like E3. Its filled to the brim with GAMERS period. These gamers are going to play and be interested in ANYTHING that catches their eye, and that is fun. It doesnt have to use a certain control, it doesnt have to be a sequel, it doesnt have to be a shooter or a cliche beatemup, doesnt have to be packed to the gills with fmv made my dozens of people who dont have the chops to be actual movie makers. Just needs to be fun. And if MS or Sony can pull that off, I would give a fucking lung to see a repeat of the above videos.

This gen has been a rollercoaster, this would be a PERFECT time to throw a wrench in it. Enough to just make us all throw our hands up in the air and exclaim "I give up!" when it comes to trying to predict how all of this is going to turn out.
 
InaudibleWhispa said:
Microsoft are hiring like crazy. There have been dozens and dozens of Microsoft ads online over the last few months looking for people to work on Natal games and they've recently opened a new Rare studio. 63 ads in the last month alone and as you can see a high percentage are Natal related. I don't think Natal should effect their first party core support too much. I think they're building teams and sectors for both.
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Actually its 96 ads! They're hiring for Xbox Live Studios, Spawnpoint Studios, 343 Industries, Turn 10 and BigPark.343 Industries has some intresting hirings: Corrinne Yu (The female John Carmac), Designer Brad Welch (Pandemic) and engineers Fredrik Persson, Adam Pino, Alex Boczar and Andrew Schnicke (All from Pandemic too).
 
Hanmik said:
Lips and The movies are prime examples. MS mada a big deal out of it back when it was about to be launched.. where is the support for those periphials now.?
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notsureifserious.gif

It's actually kinda obnoxious how much support The Lips gets. More of a footprint on the marketplace than pretty much anything.

But yes, if you really want to make an Internet Argument, you could pit their respective cameras against each other. MS pretty much ditched it's, and Sony is making it work with their floaty lightball of doom. I don't even remember anything hyping a MSEye feature after 2008, gee wonder if that's a coincidence.
 
I'll give MS props for (apparently) investing heavily in expanding their first party development for Natal (or whatever it's name is) software when alot of other areas in the industry are shrinking.

But I can't escape the feeling that both Natal and whatever Sony's thing will be called are going to do well straight out of the gate and then fade quickly drifting into obscurity within 12/18 months.

But who can tell with this gen?
 
Puncture said:
STFU with this core gamer shit please.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbZ8ERI4x98

Do yourself a favor and watch that all the way to the end where the sign at the end of the line just puts an exclamation point on the whole thing.
Then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeR0fL9ofYY&NR=1 to realize how silly you sound. You super small insignificant unimportant audience that have coined yourselves 'core gamers' arent the majority even at an event like E3. Its filled to the brim with GAMERS period. These gamers are going to play and be interested in ANYTHING that catches their eye, and that is fun. It doesnt have to use a certain control, it doesnt have to be a sequel, it doesnt have to be a shooter or a cliche beatemup, doesnt have to be packed to the gills with fmv made my dozens of people who dont have the chops to be actual movie makers. Just needs to be fun. And if MS or Sony can pull that off, I would give a fucking lung to see a repeat of the above videos.

This gen has been a rollercoaster, this would be a PERFECT time to throw a wrench in it. Enough to just make us all throw our hands up in the air and exclaim "I give up!" when it comes to trying to predict how all of this is going to turn out.
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Orsonwellesapplauds.gif

Bravo sir this 'Core' game nonsense is embarrassing.
 
Puncture said:
STFU with this core gamer shit please.
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HAHA.. :lol

what are the best selling pieces of software out there..? all sorts of third party crap games for the nintendo wii.. and none of those where shown at E3, GDC, TGS or whatever fanzy abbrevation we can come up with.. it doesn´t matter what kind of games are shown at these kinds of shows. It has been proven with Nintendo Wii and Playstation 2, that it really isn´t the shows that sell the games. Put some fancy name and picture on the cover and people will buy it, put a number at the end and even more will buy it. Even though we have the internet and these shows people still buy tons of crap games.. Can you name one piece of hardware or software that has sold like crazy because it was shown at E3..?
 
I totally agree with what others in this thread have stated, I think MS usually has a more coherent vision behind certain features or add-ons to the xbox 360 when compared to PS3. For instance sing star isn't popular in North America but really popular in Europe for Sony. The MS camera flopped hard as MS didn't push it very hard.

I think in Sony's case each division ( SCEA, SCEE, and Japan - I forget the name) tend to have differing opinions on what will and will not sell. MS doesn't have the same regional differences and can afford to push one agenda in all regions without any backlash or disagreements.

When MS decides to focus on a feature or an add-on, they do it in all regions equally, and when they decide not to push something ( like the old MS camera) you rarely see or hear about it. Sony tends to have different levels of focus in different regions which usually amounts to differing levels of support.
 
oldergamer said:
When MS decides to focus on a feature or an add-on, they do it in all regions equally, and when they decide not to push something ( like the old MS camera) you rarely see or hear about it.
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hcgl493moore20080211200sn8.jpg


This just in. PowerSauce is great!
 
It's easier for MS because they know they'll bomb in one region anyway!
I would have said two regions if it weren't for that blasted UK ruining my joke.
 
Haunted said:
It's easier for MS because they know they'll bomb in one region anyway!
I would have said two regions if it weren't for that blasted UK ruining my joke.
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3 regions? oh, you must mean Juh-pan. i've heard tales of this fabled Juh-pan.
 
lol, just making light of MS non-factor in Japan.

also, i every time i see your avatar i want to offer condolences. again, so sorry to hear it got pushed back.
 
I just realised that I'll already buy Natal only to get some Minority Report style menu navigation up in this bitch.

jaypah said:
lol, just making light of MS non-factor in Japan.

also, i every time i see your avatar i want to offer condolences. again, so sorry to hear it got pushed back.
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eh, it's a pity, but we'll live.

As far as I'm concerned the game's been sent to die into a busy fucking week, which is the worst part of the decision.
 
Hanmik said:
HAHA.. :lol

what are the best selling pieces of software out there..? all sorts of third party crap games for the nintendo wii.. and none of those where shown at E3, GDC, TGS or whatever fanzy abbrevation we can come up with..
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Million sellers, all three consoles, this generation. You pick a game that wasn't shown at a trade show.

Wii
Wii Play - E3 06 (individual games; package was confirmed later)
Wii Fit - E3 07
Mario Kart Wii - E3 07
Super Smash Bros Brawl - E3 06 closed doors, E3 07
Mario Galaxy - E3 07
Mario Party 8 - Nintendo World 2006
Guitar Hero 3 - E3 07
Link's Crossbow Training / Wii Zapper - Shown at GS manager conference 07
Twilight Princess - E3 05, E3 06
Mario and Sonic Winter Olympics - E3 07
NSMB Wii - E3 09
Guitar Hero 4 - E3 08
Game Party - E3 07
Super Paper Mario - E3 06
Carnival Games - Nintendo Gamer Day 07, E3 07
Lego Star Wars Wii - E3 07, Star Wars Celebration 07
Rayman Rabbids 1 - E3 06
Wii Fit + - E3 09
Rock Band Wii - E3 07
Wii Music - E3 08

EA Sports Active (E3 09), Animal Crossing (E3 08), Cooking Mama (E3 06 for Cooking Mama DS), and Resident Evil 4 (E3 06) should all be pretty close to a million.

PS3
GTA4 PS3 - E3 07
CoD4 PS3 - E3 07
CoD WaW PS3 - E3 08
CoD MW2 PS3 - E3 09
Madden 09 PS3 - E3 08
MGS4 - E3 06, E3 07
AssCreed 1 - E3 07
Resistance - E3 06

Madden 10 PS3 should be pretty close to a million

360
Halo 3 - E3 07
CoD4 - E3 07
CoD MW2 - E3 09
GTAIV - E3 07
CoD WaW - E3 08
Gears - E3 06
AssCreed 1 - E3 07
Gears 2 - E3 08
ODST - E3 09
Guitar Hero 3 - E3 07
Madden 09 - E3 08
Madden 08 - E3 07
Oblivion - E3 07
Left 4 Dead - E3 08
Left 4 Dead 2 - E3 09
Fable 2 - E3 07
Guitar Hero 2 - E3 06
Guitar Hero 4 - E3 08
Rock Band - E3 07
Rock Band 2 - E3 08
Fallout 3 - E3 08
Madden 07 - E3 06
Madden 10 - E3 09
CoD 2 - E3 05
Vegas - E3 06
Vegas 2 - Ubidays 07
Fight Night Round 3 - E3 05
UFC 2009 - E3 07
Resident Evil 5 - E3 08
CoD 3 - E3 06
Mass Effect 1 - E3 06, E3 07

Near 1m: Dead Rising (E3 06), Saints Row (E3 05), BioShock 1 (E3 06, E3 08), Force Unleashed (E3 08), NBA 2k8 (E3 07)/2k9 (E3 08), Halo Wars (E3 07)

(Note you don't need to actually pick one that wasn't shown at a trade show because I'm sure as you're aware at this point, I've just proven they've all been showed at trade shows)

Can you name one piece of hardware or software that has sold like crazy because it was shown at E3..?
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... there's not a single piece of software that's broken a million units sold and not been shown at a trade show, so I'm not really sure how anyone could respond to your challenge.
 
Hope it won't take too much on the 360 resource. Sometime I want non-natal 1st party title in 2011 or beyond.
 
Busty said:
I'll give MS props for (apparently) investing heavily in expanding their first party development for Natal (or whatever it's name is) software when alot of other areas in the industry are shrinking.

But I can't escape the feeling that both Natal and whatever Sony's thing will be called are going to do well straight out of the gate and then fade quickly drifting into obscurity within 12/18 months.

But who can tell with this gen?
Click to expand...

I think even if this first iteration of Natal doesn't succeed it's going to lay the groundwork for the next generation. People standing up and moving around to play video games doesn't seem so far fetched anymore after the Wii. In fact, to a lot of people (Parents, seniors, etc) it's probably more desirable.
 
Wii Sport wasn't demoed at e306?
I mean that like listing all the best selling game on NES and not pointing out Super Mario Bros :-/
 
Sort of OT, but also sort of in line with some threads of conversation in here, but Videogamer.com sat down with some supposedly 'hardcore' game developers to talk about the new motion controllers and their role:

http://www.videogamer.com/features/article/09-03-2010-1022.html

Reading it, it sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty and hesitancy out there about whether things are really 'there' yet for broad integration into the games these guys make. That seems to be a common theme.
 
HAHA..

what are the best selling pieces of software out there..? all sorts of third party crap games for the nintendo wii.. and none of those where shown at E3, GDC, TGS or whatever fanzy abbrevation we can come up with.. it doesn´t matter what kind of games are shown at these kinds of shows. It has been proven with Nintendo Wii and Playstation 2, that it really isn´t the shows that sell the games. Put some fancy name and picture on the cover and people will buy it, put a number at the end and even more will buy it. Even though we have the internet and these shows people still buy tons of crap games.. Can you name one piece of hardware or software that has sold like crazy because it was shown at E3..?
Click to expand...

Stumpokapow said:
I'm not really sure how anyone could respond to your challenge.
Click to expand...
How silly, I can do it easily:

Scribblenauts, Rock Band, Bioshock, Gears of War, Assassin's Creed, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, THE WII ITSELF.

Trade shows are about getting exposure for your product. You show it off and people writ aboot it. The mainstream media flocks to these things and looks at whatever is shouting the loudest.

The argument that just because Just Dance and Carnival Games weren't on IGN's news tickers, the shows are irrelevant is seriously dumb. That those games even fucking exist is a byproduct of these events and the ideas shown at them. Trend surfing starts by first identifying the fucking trend in time.
 
gofreak said:
Reading it, it sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty and hesitancy out there about whether things are really 'there' yet for broad integration into the games these guys make. That seems to be a common theme.
Click to expand...
Well the questions were posed against games these developers currently make or are working on. Not a lot of them could be pigeon-holed into using Natal or Arc without seriously compromising the gameplay.
Most of them are very enthusiastic about the direction the companies are going though.

Q: Is it fair to say the interface will be one of the most important parts of gaming?

AT: I'm convinced. This, and always-online, and direct to customer, and what these things will change in terms of design. But I really believe the interface is the key to expanding. The Wii started doing it, but let's see what's going to be the future. Natal wants to do it. It will come soon, for sure.
Click to expand...
 
I'm really curious to see what Rare is up to with Natal. Also, this E3 should be quite exciting as it seems MS and Sony are going to try to out-scream one another. Nintendo, meanwhile, will show Zelda, something with Vitality Sensor that will be mocked tons on GAF but end up selling millions, and maybe a couple of other core titles that we don't know about yet. Or I guess Reggie could simply take a seat in the audience and show a compilation video of what Sony and MS are doing, whilst eating popcorn and relaxing.
 
pr0cs said:
Well the questions were posed against games these developers currently make or are working on. Not a lot of them could be pigeon-holed into using Natal or Arc without seriously compromising the gameplay.
Most of them are very enthusiastic about the direction the companies are going though.
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Pfft yeah right, the same people unable to find how to decently use a Wiimote are expected to be able to produce something worthwhile with something even more abstract?
 
Mael said:
Pfft yeah right, the same people unable to find how to decently use a Wiimote are expected to be able to produce something worthwhile with something even more abstract?
Click to expand...

Third party developers are all making a lot of money on their HD games, in addition to also being able to live out their creative, artistic side. Of course they don't want to handle something like the Wii, where you can't make money or even create good games, since it doesn't meet the minimum technical requirements for real art. The HD consoles are different, they have the power that really creative minds need.
 
gofreak said:
Reading it, it sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty and hesitancy out there about whether things are really 'there' yet for broad integration into the games these guys make. That seems to be a common theme.
Click to expand...

Well most of the guys agree that building current games and slapping motion controls on them is not the way to go. They agree that building something specifically for that system is the way to go.
Peter Johansson, Just Cause 2 lead designer - Avalanche Studios

PJ: I'm personally not too keen on just replacing normal button presses with a movement, because I don't necessarily feel it enhances the experience much. But if you set out to design a game that wants to take advantage of those features I can see a lot of opportunities. If you can design it from the ground up with that in mind I think you can do some really interesting stuff. I think sometimes even simple stuff, like navigating a HUD, a GUI, could be really intuitive. I want to see the map and I just get the map down, stuff like that. I could see that working really well in traditional games as well. So I think there are a lot of opportunities. In the beginning you're going to see a lot of games that are just completely based on it, and then a bit later you're going to see traditional games that incorporate bits and pieces that work for them.

Richard Farrelly, Medal of Honor senior creative director - EALA.

Q: As someone who knows FPS games like the back of your hand, what do you think of motion sensing as a way of handling FPS games?

RF: It's out there. The technology needs to be refined further to really apply to FPS games in a meaningful way. But I think it will happen eventually, and it will change things once it gets to the fidelity that's required. Because that's what it all boils down to. You want that gun to point where you want it to, when you want it to, without the awkward fidgetiness that comes from the lack of fidelity that you get from some of the stuff. I've not physically personally experienced Natal yet.

Loz Doyle, LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 producer - Traveller's Tales.

Q: Do motion sensing games need to be built from the ground up to utilise the technology?

LD: Yeah I think so. Even our Wii games, they're basically controlling the same as the other games. We might add a few bits and pieces, but we don't go crazy with motion control for moving characters around or anything because it doesn't really make sense. There's no point trying to shoehorn something into something that wasn't designed to be used in that way.

Alain Tascan, general manager - Army of Two developer EA Montreal.

Q: Is it fair to say the interface will be one of the most important parts of gaming?

AT: I'm convinced. This, and always-online, and direct to customer, and what these things will change in terms of design. But I really believe the interface is the key to expanding. The Wii started doing it, but let's see what's going to be the future. Natal wants to do it. It will come soon, for sure.
Click to expand...
 
Flachmatuch said:
Third party developers are all making a lot of money on their HD games, in addition to also being able to live out their creative, artistic side. Of course they don't want to handle something like the Wii, where you can't make money or even create good games, since it doesn't meet the minimum technical requirements for real art. The HD consoles are different, they have the power that really creative minds need.
Click to expand...

6/10. Not your best effort, I imagine. ;)
 
Firestorm said:
Oh my gosh Natal I am so very interezzzzzzzzzzz. Ugh, E3 is going to be trash this year isn't it? :(
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Yes it is. It's going to be a spazzy motion based cluster fck. I hope someone ignores this stuff and shows some real games.
 
TheOddOne said:
Well most of the guys agree that building current games and slapping motion controls on them is not the way to go. They agree that building something specifically for that system is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Sure, but I think for them as so-called 'hardcore' developers - the self-described context of the interview, before someone jumps down my throat - it's questionable if they will have that opportunity. It sounds like they probably won't turn around and change the types of games they're making to 'fit', but rather they seem to be looking forward to a day where the tech fits their games.
 
Vinci said:
6/10. Not your best effort, I imagine. ;)
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It's amazing how much people are influenced by the Natal hype and how much people misunderstand the success of the Wii.

My problem is that there seems to be nothing but money behind Natal, not a single game or gameplay idea, no coherent strategy, no new way of looking at what's happening in the market - it's just the same Microsoft strategy of "let's do the same thing as are competitors, only with more money and thus more/better technology", and still, the (official) hype level is very high. I really hope breaking into a market is not this easy and you need actual talent and experience for it, it's not just about a trivial "take x and make it bigger" pattern.
 
If Sony and MS can find some innovative ways to implement these technologies I'm all for it. There's definitely enough talented studios out there to make it happen.

Even still, I just can't seem to see this motion sensing trend as nothing more than a distraction for both companies right now.

Hopefully they blow the doors off e3 with useful, creative and accessible software that appeals to more than Farmville addicts, setting the stage for something fresh and new that most of us can take seriously.
 
Flachmatuch said:
It's amazing how much people are influenced by the Natal hype and how much people misunderstand the success of the Wii.

My problem is that there seems to be nothing but money behind Natal, not a single game or gameplay idea, no coherent strategy, no new way of looking at what's happening in the market - it's just the same Microsoft strategy of "let's do the same thing as are competitors, only with more money and thus more/better technology", and still, the (official) hype level is very high. I really hope breaking into a market is not this easy and you need actual talent and experience for it, it's not just about a trivial "take x and make it bigger" pattern.
Click to expand...

That's the traditional generational pattern: Bigger and better. And if what is required is finesse - yeah, MS isn't known for that. They pretty much just take something, throw it through the MS filter, and then unleash the atomic equivalent.

I'll give them credit for one thing though with Natal. It's at least conceptually interesting. Sadly, I think most of what makes it interesting has nothing to do with anything MS has done and far more to do with a certain Tom Cruise film.
 
belvedere said:
If Sony and MS can find some innovative ways to implement these technologies I'm all for it. There's definitely enough talented studios out there to make it happen.
Click to expand...

Shame that most of their names start with EAD Software Group.

Even still, I just can't seem to see this motion sensing trend as nothing more than a distraction for both companies right now.
Click to expand...

I don't know. They're a bit better off now than they were at the start of the generation, but I think even they see that the future will have to be different. If they just brought out a normal next-gen console, Sony would collapse and MS would be in the red for another half a decade. They need to change and they want the casual market, of course.

Hopefully they blow the doors off e3 with useful, creative and accessible software that appeals to more than Farmville addicts.
Click to expand...

MS would love to have the Farmville addicts, so I hope this won't work out for them :-/ It'd be just leeching off other people's work and risktaking.

Vinci said:
That's the traditional generational pattern: Bigger and better. And if what is required is finesse - yeah, MS isn't known for that. They pretty much just take something, throw it through the MS filter, and then unleash the atomic equivalent.

I'll give them credit for one thing though with Natal. It's at least conceptually interesting. Sadly, I think most of what makes it interesting has nothing to do with anything MS has done and far more to do with a certain Tom Cruise film.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it sounds like pretty awesome technology, but it never looked practical in any way, ever. That MR type "interface" is utterly ridiculous. MS should have its own research group that actually comes up with real ideas (MS Research lol), on the scale of the Xerox guys at least - instead, they're taking ideas from scifi movies?
 
Withnail said:
I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised either. Microsoft is clearly gunning for the casuals with this one. The "Xbox Feel" would be a great way of slowing Nintendo and Sony's momentum without the expense and risk associated with introducing a new platform.

Xbox Feel
- A slim 360
- New interface and OS utilising Natal
- One SKU (with 120GB HDD, WiFi built-in)
- A small selection of minigames built-in (Milo, basic golf game etc.)
- Features such as built-in video calling with Windows Live Messenger, Zune Marketplace/VoD, Facebook heavily marketed and better integrated
- Xbox Live now free?
 
Flachmatuch said:
It's amazing how much people are influenced by the Natal hype and how much people misunderstand the success of the Wii.

My problem is that there seems to be nothing but money behind Natal, not a single game or gameplay idea, no coherent strategy, no new way of looking at what's happening in the market - it's just the same Microsoft strategy of "let's do the same thing as are competitors, only with more money and thus more/better technology", and still, the (official) hype level is very high. I really hope breaking into a market is not this easy and you need actual talent and experience for it, it's not just about a trivial "take x and make it bigger" pattern.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about Natal. Maybe once I see the software my tune will change, but the "why" right now seems like it's still a huge blank.
 
Ecstatic said:
I seriously doubt that...
Click to expand...

The audience they're attempting to court is highly unlikely to pay for X-Box Live. So either they'll go without it entirely or MS will have to offer something to these folks.
 
Flachmatuch said:
Yeah, it sounds like pretty awesome technology, but it never looked practical in any way, ever. That MR type "interface" is utterly ridiculous. MS should have its own research group that actually comes up with real ideas, like the Xerox guys - instead, they're taking ideas from scifi movies?
Click to expand...
If you actually watched the Natal reveal, it said it was created by Microsoft Reseach. I don't know where you got the MR type interface, I have never ever heard that. Also I don't get the mentality that Microsoft is just amping up what others are doing, but who has done what MS is trying to do? What if MS released a Wii-remote clone, then I would have said the same thing.
 
TheOddOne said:
If you actually watched the Natal reveal, it said it was created by Microsoft Reseach. I don't know where you got the MR type interface, I have never ever heard that. Also I don't get the mentality that Microsoft is just amping up what others are doing, but who has done what MS is trying to do? What if MS released a Wii-remote clone, then I would have said the same thing.
Click to expand...

'MR,' in his post, stood for 'Minority Report.'
 
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