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[Hanmik]

Do you seriously not understand what he was trying to say or are you arguing only for argument's sake?

I understand his post fine.. but he is still saying that MS supports everything much better than Sony.. That´s just a false generalization. MS does not support everything better than Sony.. MS hypes most things up via excessive ads and other stuff.. but that´s not the same as saying they keep supporting it. Lips and The movies are prime examples. MS mada a big deal out of it back when it was about to be launched.. where is the support for those periphials now.?

 

[timetokill]

I always thought that E3 was for the core gamer..

You were wrong. It was never "for" gamers. It was for retailers and press, a venue for the games industry to showcase what they were working on next. It's about generating buzz and moving product.

If it was for "gamers" they would openly allow people to buy tickets and come play the games, like a TGS or something.

 

[DCharlie]

(or just another EyeToy),

cool, then Sony should have absolutely no problems at all copying exactly what Natal are doing then seeing the tech is exactly the same right?

 

[Monty Mole]

I still think much of the success of Natal depends on what MS decides to do with the 360 itself.

My gut feeling is that MS will launch Natal bundled by default with a new console form-factor and with a new name. A bit like the transition from PLAYSTATION 3 to PS3, with software box rebranding too, although perhaps a more significant name change to attract the casual audience.

 

[AFreak]

Just ignore everything except for The Last Guardian.

FIXED!

 

[Nafai1123]

Honestly, how can anyone think that Sony and MS are going to receive different support for motion controllers? 3rd parties are developing for both platforms atm, why would that change based on "x" motion controller vs. "y" motion controller? It's all about capturing the largest market possible. I doubt that EA, Bethesda, etc. are going to suddenly decide that Natal is the future of motion controllers while the "Arc" is completely worthless and vise versa. Most likely a majority, if not all 3rd parties will find ways to support both systems. I suppose we will really see at E3, but to me all this posturing seems completely pointless.

 

[Phantast2k]

No one of the respected 3rd party devs will announce out their a-game(s) on the system, same goes for the Arc/Gem. It's in the hands of in-house devs to deliver the goods.

 

[Monty Mole]

Honestly, how can anyone think that Sony and MS are going to receive different support for motion controllers? 3rd parties are developing for both platforms atm, why would that change based on "x" motion controller vs. "y" motion controller? It's all about capturing the largest market possible. I doubt that EA, Bethesda, etc. are going to suddenly decide that Natal is the future of motion controllers while the "Arc" is completely worthless and vise versa. Most likely a majority, if not all 3rd parties will find ways to support both systems. I suppose we will really see at E3, but to me all this posturing seems completely pointless.

Launch titles often recieve moneybags from the platform holders to minimise risk. That's why we'll likely see original projects for both from third parties.

 

[Withnail]

I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).

 

[TheOddOne]

I understand his post fine.. but he is still saying that MS supports everything much better than Sony.. That´s just a false generalization. MS does not support everything better than Sony.. MS hypes most things up via excessive ads and other stuff.. but that´s not the same as saying they keep supporting it. Lips and The movies are prime examples. MS mada a big deal out of it back when it was about to be launched.. where is the support for those periphials now.?

Who's generalizing now? And how are ads not support for a product? Should they just release X product without any marketing? So they should have not markted Mass Effect or Bioshock in 2007? WHAT!?

Also XBLA, Lips and Forza have great support.

 

[C4Lukins]

Honestly, how can anyone think that Sony and MS are going to receive different support for motion controllers? 3rd parties are developing for both platforms atm, why would that change based on "x" motion controller vs. "y" motion controller? It's all about capturing the largest market possible. I doubt that EA, Bethesda, etc. are going to suddenly decide that Natal is the future of motion controllers while the "Arc" is completely worthless and vise versa. Most likely a majority, if not all 3rd parties will find ways to support both systems. I suppose we will really see at E3, but to me all this posturing seems completely pointless.

I think that they are different enough products that third parties are going to have to specifically tailor their games for each system if they want to utilize the functionality of either. I think it is going to have a lot to do with which one gains the most traction, and if one product does significantly better then the other then we may see the sort of comparison reviews that we now see concerning graphics and framerates only they will be focused on how much better one product works then the other for the specific game or what functionality was included with one version of the game and what was omitted from the other. The big games will still come out for both systems, but you may see stuff like Natal or Arc exclusivity instead of timed DLC exclusives like we have seen in the past. Again it is way to early to say, and this is all speculation, but the one thing I think we do know is that MS is making Natal a key component and hard focus for the future of the 360 and we are not sure how much faith Sony is putting behind Arc.

 

[Monty Mole]

I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).

They'd be stupid not to do this.

 

[Hanmik]

Who's generalizing now? And how are ads not support for a product? Should they just release X product without any marketing? So they should have not markted Mass Effect or Bioshock in 2007? WHAT!?

Also XBLA, Lips and Forza have great support.

I just qouted him for that part.. He said that MS hyped stuff up..

Lips.. what support..? what games are out for thos microphones..? Sony is milking the Singstar franchise way more..
Why did you mention XBLA? and Forza? did I mention those..? I´m old, but not that old..

I was just pointing out that MS, is not supporting all their stuff like C4Lukins posted.

 

[Monty Mole]

I just qouted him for that part.. He said that MS hyped stuff up..

Lips.. what support..? what games are out for thos microphones..? Sony is milking the Singstar franchise way more..
Why did you mention XBLA? and Forza? did I mention those..? I´m old, but not that old..

I was just pointing out that MS, is not supporting all their stuff like C4Lukins posted.

To be fair, MS seems to be finally supporting Lips. They just brought out a new one last month and they announced another 80s edition for next month. It also seems to be finally picking up some steam here... in the UK at least - with more retail presence than before.

 

[Onemise]

more announcement of announcements...

 

[CadetMahoney]

I'm announcing that I will announce this reply ahead of time mmmkay.

Anyway. . . I too think that these motion controls will both be different enough that 3rd parties who develop for both consoles will be compared to in comparison sites as to which offers the "best interaction". It will be entirely subjective and just fodder for fanboys bickering that "head tracking sukz, TRUE 1:1™, lag, unplayable etc."

Touch little boys
Anime boob touching for japan

more of the same then heh.

 

[akachan ningen]

I wonder if MS are giving devs a little something extra to tack on Natal support for their games. I wouldn't be surprised considering what they did in Japan.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).

They'd have to push it harder than the 360. Like making Halo Reach a Natal exclusive launch game or something.

 

[TheOddOne]

I just qouted him for that part.. He said that MS hyped stuff up..

Lips.. what support..? what games are out for thos microphones..? Sony is milking the Singstar franchise way more..
Why did you mention XBLA? and Forza? did I mention those..? I´m old, but not that old..

I was just pointing out that MS, is not supporting all their stuff like C4Lukins posted.

Its a discussion about support, it does not matter what product it is. To focus on that small part of the lineup that has little support and not talk about those of who have more support is skewing the discussion. Thats harnesses back to your own opinion of 'generalization'.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I understand his post fine.. but he is still saying that MS supports everything much better than Sony.. That´s just a false generalization. MS does not support everything better than Sony.. MS hypes most things up via excessive ads and other stuff.. but that´s not the same as saying they keep supporting it. Lips and The movies are prime examples. MS mada a big deal out of it back when it was about to be launched.. where is the support for those periphials now.?

I don't think he's saying that at all. As far as features integral to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 platforms go, Microsoft has shown a clearer vision and more willingness to put their weight behind them. Sony has been dabbling in a lot of things (Sixaxis, Home, PS Eye, Linux support, demo scene products on PSN, web browsing, Netflix, Facebook...), but only a few received the push necessary to establish them as significant and recognizable parts of the PS3 experience. On the other hand, Microsoft has invested a lot into showcasing most of Xbox 360's defining features, be it NXE with Avatars, Netflix, Facebook, Last.fm and Twitter support or Natal, which is already seeing a lot of mainstream exposure.

There are exceptions, of course (Live Vision cam hasn't really seen a lot of action, the concept of cross-platform PC/Xbox 360 play has pretty much died out, the Live Anywhere initiative is only now coming to fruition...), and in areas other than Xbox 360 base features things have perhaps been different (Games for Windows is not receiving a lot of attention nowadays, for instance), but in general, the distinction between Microsoft's and Sony's approaches when it comes to pushing their strategic interests on consoles has been rather pronounced.

By the way, Lips is still receiving plenty of support - the fourth game has just been announced, and I believe the series has seen some regional releases as well.

No one of the respected 3rd party devs will announce out their a-game(s) on the system, same goes for the Arc/Gem.

Capcom already did. It's not going to be a launch title, however.

 

[Ecstatic]

I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).

I agree with most of what you said, but I really do think Microsoft will maintain the same name and OS. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some differently coloured consoles as well.

 

[Dynoro]

I just qouted him for that part.. He said that MS hyped stuff up..

Lips.. what support..? what games are out for thos microphones..? Sony is milking the Singstar franchise way more..
Why did you mention XBLA? and Forza? did I mention those..? I´m old, but not that old..

I was just pointing out that MS, is not supporting all their stuff like C4Lukins posted.

Milking does not equal supporting. What Criterion did with Burnout Paradise initially is supporting as is what Valve does with TF2. Releasing repacks ad nauseum is just farming the customer; for which Sony and MS do equally well at the moment

 

[Joe White]

ILips.. what support..? what games are out for thos microphones..?

As far as I know for the Lips series: Lips, Lips: Number One Hits, Lips: Party Classics and plenty of DLC.
And then there are those Guitar Hero and Rock Band -games that support those microphones: Guitar Hero: Metallica, Guitar Hero 5, Band Hero, Rock Band 2, Lego Rock Band and The Beatles: Rock Band.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Milking does not equal supporting. What Criterion did with Burnout Paradise initially is supporting as is what Valve does with TF2. Releasing repacks ad nauseum is just farming the customer; for which Sony and MS do equally well at the moment

Sony is doing a great job of supporting LittleBigPlanet, though. Mostly paid content, but hey, that seems to be the norm on consoles.

 

[Vizion28]

All these 3rd party developers readily jumping on an unproven acccessory (did Microsoft pay them?) but they can't make anything worthwhile (for the most part) on Wii? Or maybe they are going to put the same shovelware garbage they put on Wii? Most likely.

Wii got a lot of hate in video game forums just wait until Natal shows up.

 

[gofreak]

cool, then Sony should have absolutely no problems at all copying exactly what Natal are doing then seeing the tech is exactly the same right?

That's an interesting question.

I think it depends how motivated/interested Sony is to do that. And how exact 'exactly' is for you. Natal, as the collection of tech shown so far, is 80:20 software:hardware IMO. The fundamental bottleneck in most of the things people try to do with computer vision is in the software. Adding hardware can ease that bottleneck, make it a bit wider, but the magic and challenge is still in the software. I don't think Sony has nearly exhausted what could be done with Eye, but then I'm not sure they're as interested in doing so as MS is with Natal. Particularly if they choose to focus in on the Arc model of control exclusively (though I think it would be a shame to do so...I think there's a number of other more general computer vision 'inputs' that could work really well in tandem with Arc). I think they'll continue to pick and choose things to implement and support though...but I dunno if I'd consider that to be 'copying' Natal at all.

Anyway, I don't think this was the intended direction of his post and comments - i.e. were about Sony and MS and 'support'. For Sony I think how committed they are to something depends on how strategically important they think it is, and how well supported something is at SCEJ. If you have those two things, Sony will stand by you forever like a loyal labrador. You need only look at PSP, or heck, even PS3 to see the injury Sony will sustain in order to continue to support things they're really committed to. I'm not sure where Arc falls in the scheme of things, or Eye falls right now, but the noises out of SCEJ about how they see it have been fairly encouraging I'd say.

 

[Dynoro]

Sony is doing a great job of supporting LittleBigPlanet, though. Mostly paid content, but hey, that seems to be the norm on consoles.

LBP was very well supported; but things like the eytoy get token efforts once in a while (eye of judgement for example). Much like how Halo gets waypoint but the 360 camera gets very minimal support outside token achievements and occassional family games.

EDIT: I'm basically just saying both companies have examples of good support and examples of shoddy support. Its hard to say how they will help Arc/Natal until we see for ourselves

 

[Vizion28]

I'm fully expecting MS to effectively launch a new console at E3, with a new compact 360 form-factor, new name (no longer Xbox 360), new console OS, new marketing, big launch software lineup. It's effectively going to be like the start of the next gen for MS, albeit different to previous gens in that existing 360s can be made forward compatible through a plug-in peripheral (the camera).

I don't think they would change the name of the Xbox but instead push the final name of project natal to move more Xboxs. There will be sort of a relaunch with a new redesigned slim 360 bundled with Natal.

I wonder if Microsoft will stay in the hardware business if Natal is not a success. Microsoft has tried to do everything right to dominate the media space in people's living room (launching 360 early, buying exclusives and timed exclusives, matching Wiis price etc.) but to no avail if you use the PS2 has a benchmark for success.

 

[LCfiner]

Time to bring it, MS!

E3 is gonna be great. or, perhaps more accurately, Gaf's reaction to E3 is gonna be great!

 

[abacab driver]

I wonder if Microsoft will stay in the hardware business if Natal is not a success.

Uh..why wouldn't they?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Capcom already did. It's not going to be a launch title, however.

Yup. And Suda51 recently said, "Why develop a game for the competition (Sony) while their device is exactly the same as Nintendo's?" he said, in an interview with Gamers.fr. "I'm not really excited about the gadget from Sony. Natal is great, it would be interesting to work on it".

I think Natal and Arc are different enough that a lot of games will have to be designed specifically with that technology in mind. We'll see stuff like EA Sports Active and Raving Rabbids on both consoles, sure, but a lot of third party stuff is going to be specific to Natal and Arc, I think. Natal is going to shine when developers take full advantage of what it has to offer, and that isn't going to happen if they're consciously thinking "Whoa guys, remember we've gotta get this working with the arc too".

 

[wRATH2x]

Hell Yeah!

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I wonder if Microsoft will stay in the hardware business if Natal is not a success.

Sorry, what? Xbox 360 is doing fine even without Natal and it's finally making them money. Also, on the macro level, it's successfully preventing Sony from taking over the living room (Nintendo's aspirations seem to be quite different than Sony's).

I think Natal and Arc are different enough that a lot of games will have to be designed specifically with that technology in mind. We'll see stuff like EA Sports Active and Raving Rabbids on both consoles, sure, but a lot of third party stuff is going to be specific to Natal and Arc, I think. Natal is going to shine when developers take full advantage of what it has to offer, and that isn't going to happen if they're consciously thinking "Whoa guys, remember we've gotta get this working with the arc too".

Yes, I think both Arc and Natal will offer some very interesting and unique games not entirely possible on the other platform. Good times for multiple platform owners ahead.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I wonder if Microsoft will stay in the hardware business if Natal is not a success.

:lol :lol

but to no avail if you use the PS2 has a benchmark for success.

:lol :lol :lol

So by that logic pretty much every video game system ever made is a failure? When does Sony leave the hardware business?

 

[Haunted]

I always wonder where these extra resources are coming from. Creating expanded audience type of software on top of the usual core efforts requires more resources and manpower to be made, or one of the two will suffer. It's simple math.

As long as we haven't seen what's coming up, it's all lip service.

E3 is gonna be great. or, perhaps more accurately, Gaf's reaction to E3 is gonna be great!

Yup. It's a win-win situation, really.

 

[LCfiner]

I always wonder where these extra resources are coming from. Creating expanded audience type of software on top of the usual core efforts requires more resources and manpower to be made, or one of the two will suffer. It's simple math.

As long as we haven't seen what's coming up, it's all lip service.


Yup. It's a win-win situation, really.

Well, considering that Rare's "core" efforts haven't been huge financial blockbusters, I think it would be an easy decision for MS to have most of them dedicated to Natal.

Lionhead looks to have two projects underway. Fable 3 and Milo & Kate. one considered "Core", one a bit more of a risk and Natal-exclusive.

343 is working on some Halo thing. that's "core" - but it may add in some Natal stuff like head tracking or voice commands. it's almost certainly not going to win over any expanded audience.

I expect a lot of 3rd party natal stuff getting shown at E3.

 

[Dabanton]

All these 3rd party developers readily jumping on an unproven acccessory (did Microsoft pay them?) but they can't make anything worthwhile (for the most part) on Wii? Or maybe they are going to put the same shovelware garbage they put on Wii? Most likely.

Wii got a lot of hate in video game forums just wait until Natal shows up.

I was going to answer this question seriously till i saw your other reply.:lol

In all seriousness i think most developers are more than happy to develop on the PS3,360 and PC and are comfortable there, so the move over to Natal,Arc games is not that drastic as it's on systems that they have a handle on already.

Wii gets a lot of hate because it's reputation to some people is that it's home to legions of Party games which is slightly sadly true a browse of the Wii games at my local game shop will usually end with me not picking any non nintendo game off the shelve.

I don't think either Arc or Natal will have that problem.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Lionhead looks to have two projects underway. Fable 3 and Milo & Kate. one considered "Core", one a bit more of a risk and Natal-exclusive.

Maybe three.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

I always wonder where these extra resources are coming from. Creating expanded audience type of software on top of the usual core efforts requires more resources and manpower to be made, or one of the two will suffer. It's simple math.

Microsoft are hiring like crazy. There have been dozens and dozens of Microsoft ads online over the last few months looking for people to work on Natal games and they've recently opened a new Rare studio. 63 ads in the last month alone and as you can see a high percentage are Natal related. I don't think Natal should effect their first party core support too much. I think they're building teams and sectors for both.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Full natal lineup @ E3? This year? Wow, I guess they really are planning on launching it and then dropping support.

what? :lol

 

[Monty Mole]

what? :lol

He's trying to be funny. Article is referring to the launch lineup, of course.

 

[JaggedSac]

I always wonder where these extra resources are coming from. Creating expanded audience type of software on top of the usual core efforts requires more resources and manpower to be made, or one of the two will suffer. It's simple math.

As long as we haven't seen what's coming up, it's all lip service.


Yup. It's a win-win situation, really.

Take a look at this:
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/Microsoft-Games-Studios-Jobs/44366/

 

[DMeisterJ]

If Microsoft is doing a full unveil at E3, it would be wise for Sony to at least do a big partial unveiling during either the GDC presentation that the ARC creator is doing, and/or their conference. Let's finally see what games this controller will be using, huh Sony?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Hopefully Zelda can save this E3.

Zelda will be at E3. It already has been confirmed. Probably it will be the best of the show.

 

[evalue]

I am looking to make friends with Milo

 

[Haunted]

Microsoft are hiring like crazy. There have been dozens and dozens of Microsoft ads online over the last few months looking for people to work on Natal games and they've recently opened a new Rare studio. 63 ads in the last month alone and as you can see a high percentage are Natal related. I don't think Natal should effect their first party core support too much. I think they're building teams and sectors for both.

Take a look at this:
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/Microsoft-Games-Studios-Jobs/44366/

Which is excellent, yes. Them hiring new people now bodes really well for their first party output in 2012. Here's hoping third parties can keep it going from after the first wave of games launch until then.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

He's trying to be funny. Article is referring to the launch lineup, of course.

I know, I thought it was pretty funny though. That is the kinda thing that some lurker on here will read and post elsewhere.

 

[Dabanton]

If Microsoft is doing a full unveil at E3, it would be wise for Sony to at least do a big partial unveiling during either the GDC presentation that the ARC creator is doing, and/or their conference. Let's finally see what games this controller will be using, huh Sony?

They'd be silly to do that as when they show them again at E3 most people will be like "We've seen those all games already where's the new stuff?"

Which is why MS only allowing the Brick game and Burnout to be seen and played is a smart move both games show what the system is capable of but don't spoil any advances that the system has made as they'll want to drop megaton after megaton at E3

Which is excellent, yes. Them hiring new people now bodes really well for their first party output in 2012. Here's hoping third parties can keep it going from after the first wave of games launch until then.

I like the way they are going about it. No more purchasing massive companies and watching people leave,but instead slowly building teams with people who actually want to work at MS

 

[ElFly]

Oh god, this is going to be a great E3.

Can't wait for the gifs.

 

[Haunted]

I am looking to make friends with Milo

pedo confirmed