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[Ridley327]

So rumors have been confirmed then.

Sure, the same company that brought us PG-friendly games like Conception 2 and Dungeon Travelers 2 did these changes out of their own volition. I'm not into this kind of stuff but it pisses me off that NoA wants to pass on the burden of these changes to Atlus, well knowing that a big part of the audience will be pissed off by them. Even if Atlus was in charge of localization, Treehouse was probably breathing behind their backs. At least have some spine NoA and back up your position. If you're gonna make changes, stand by them and take the heat.

They did when it was originally announced that Atlus was localizing the game. The article is making a leap that doesn't match up with officially released information.

If anything, NOA is making it clear they do want to take the heat for any decisions that are made for this game.

 

[K.Sabot]

If you care more about these changes than the actual development of the game systems, to the point that you think the developer doesn't deserve your money, why are you even playing the game?

Because I might like the game regardless?

I can still enjoy games and not support these practices, at the end of the day it's the money going into their pocket that matters and not if you played the game or not.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Bayonetta 2 isn't their IP. This is a Fire Emblem game. They're cool with people doing whatever with their own franchises but things are different if you use one of their own.

Also, that's Bayonetta's whole thing while this stuff is such a small part of the overall game.

Some people REALLY want this to be about GG bouncing from thread to thread with this shit. There should be like a GG signal.

Im respond to someone's post. I didn't bring it up but it's not hard to make the connection.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They were anticipating it to be rated mature.

My point is that the removed content wouldn't have changed the rating. For example, here's P4D

It has a T rating. It's also an Atlus game without any Nintendo influence on its localization.

 

[Eolz]

I hope there aren't any story changes either. The only thing I am worried about is the 2nd dungeon and how they will do Tsubasa and Maiko's development in that chapter because that dungeon and scenario is really one where you get to see Tsubasa push herself and find courage to do what she needs to do to make her dreams come true. And a lot of that inspiration comes from Maiko and her interactions with her throughout this dungeon.

I don't understand the posts that say good that there are changes or anything like that as the game itself has nothing that warrants any issues. This game is less of an idol game and less of a fan service game than Yakuza 5, Tales of Series, and other RPG series. It's one thing to not like the game and not be interested in it, but it's another thing to continue to slander it when you have no intent on buying it in the first place.

At the same time it shouldn't be a huge end of the world deal that there are some slight changes, it doesn't detract from the fact the game is really good and it deserves and needs the sales it can get. The game has a lot of positive things going for it.

Nintendo and Atlus are in the wrong for making these changes, but to punish such a good and unique game doesn't really feel right. As there isn't anything like this and I'm amazed that this game was even able to come out in Japanese and English. It really embodies the idea of bringing what the developers want to come to life and it is the game they really wanted to make.

This. Shame to see some driveby posters not really wanting to understand what the game is about.

Again, apart from the age bump changes, none of the changes were needed for a better rating and experience.

 

[PreyingShark]

Good. This means that 13 year olds whose parents were as strict as mine in regards to media content will have an easier time convincing daddy to let them play this game.

Like do not get me started on how even when I was like 15 I still had that issue. And I could just forget about playing anything rated M.

 

[K.Sabot]

You guys want me to start posting T rated game pictures that would get me banned? The rating argument is stupid because the ESRB is stupid.

 

[Crash Station]

If she was still there it would be.

How are the presumed actions of stupid people (especially considering Rapp would be against this censorship) in a hypothetical scenario relevant to this discussion?

 

[Eusis]

Atlus's PR manager straight up said the changes are because of Nintendo.

It's not Atlus's fault.

It's probably that Nintendo wanted certain changes, and it was up to Atlus on how to implement them. I.E. Rather than Photoshopping more covering bikinis onto the characters they just had entirely new pictures drawn and put in.

 

[Toxi]

Not going to pay full price for a censored product in a month with 5 other Japanese games I want (SO5, Atelier Sophie, Zero Time Dilemma, Grand Kingdom and Odin Sphere) coming out that will be uncensored.

Sure, no problem with that.

I'm just confused at the logic here.

"I hate what you did to this game so much I refuse to give you money for it because of my principles when I buy it to play and enjoy it anyway."

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I would like to know who NOA thinks is the target market for this game.

 

[Toxi]

I would like to know who NOA thinks is the target market for this game.

I don't think they know either.

 

[Ridley327]

I would like to know who NOA thinks is the target market for this game.

Arguably, you could ask the question as to why NCL would greenlight an idol-focused RPG on the Wii U in the first place.

 

[Wereroku]

They censored Fatal Frame as well and that was rated M.

I forgot about that. Maybe an exec at NOA just doesn't like bikini's.

 

[Eila]

Seems more like they were just casting that as a safety net, worst-case-scenario type thing. To be honest games like Persona 3 and 4 are really soft Ms anyway.



Bayonetta 2 isn't their IP. This is a Fire Emblem game. They're cool with people doing whatever with their own franchises but things are different if you use one of their own.

Bravely is not a Nintendo IP, either. Or Youkai Watch.
I would argue they have changed their localization practices of T and M rated games to be more like their E rated games like Pokemon in the past few years.

 

[Davey Cakes]

The clothed ones look better.

They always do.

I can't hate on "censorship" when it improves something, like it does MOST OF THE TIME in these specific cases.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Good. This means that 13 year olds whose parents were as strict as mine in regards to media content will have an easier time convincing daddy to let them play this game.

Like do not get me started on how even when I was like 15 I still had that issue. And I could just forget about playing anything rated M.

You needed to get gud at hiding games from your parents. I remember keeping Resident Evil 4 out of sight back in the day, heh heh

You guys want me to start posting T rated game pictures that would get me banned? The rating argument is stupid because the ESRB is stupid.

I think we were pretty sure that it wasn't just the rating, Nintendo is trying to protect their image + their new hot IP Fire Emblem. Ties back to the whole face-rubbing removal thing, harmless in the view of the ESRB for sure, but jives against the image Ninty wants.

Personally I think they've gone way too far and canceled my order already, but I usually find the ESRB to be pretty consistent when it comes to content like this.

 

[Menitta]

Arguably, you could ask the question as to why NCL would greenlight an idol-focused RPG on the Wii U in the first place.

I'd say they decided to greenlight SMT X FE and they came back with this, without really checking in on what they were making. This is purely speculation.

 

[dakkumauji]

Good. This means that 13 year olds whose parents were as strict as mine in regards to media content will have an easier time convincing daddy to let them play this game.

Like do not get me started on how even when I was like 15 I still had that issue. And I could just forget about playing anything rated M.

i honestly doubt these changes allowed the game to be rated T instead of M

 

[KillerMan91]

I mean with some more popular anime games (like Fire Emblem) I can somewhat understand that they try to change the content to be more mainstream friendly in the west but with ultra niche game like this? They are just going to alienate that niche fanbase that was the only group buying this title in the first place.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

Bravely is not a Nintendo IP, either. Or Youkai Watch.
I would argue they have changed their localization practices of T and M rated games to be more like their E rated games like Pokemon in the past few years.

Yokai Watch is literally a kids' game so that's a different matter.

Bravely you might have a point, but what was the issue with that? The Native American costume is a totally different matter than sexual stuff. The only other thing I heard of was an artbook being altered but not having seen the art I can't comment on it. The other difference between that and Bayonetta, i should point out, is the art style in Bravely makes the characters look young, while Bayonetta is clearly an adult woman. So that may factor into things as well.

 

[OmegaFax]

Nintendo and Atlus are in the wrong for making these changes, but to punish such a good and unique game doesn't really feel right. As there isn't anything like this and I'm amazed that this game was even able to come out in Japanese and English. It really embodies the idea of bringing what the developers want to come to life and it is the game they really wanted to make.

Exactly. The changes are bizarre and inconsistent. Japanese idol game released in Japan with minimal changes but same game with English subtitles must be altered for a niche audience expecting the same game from Japan.

 

[Palculator]

"I hate what you did to this game so much I refuse to give you money for it because of my principles when I buy it to play and enjoy it anyway."

Don't see the issue; it's voting with your wallet and as long as the first sale doctrine is a thing you can still chose whom to give money to.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

I would like to know who NOA thinks is the target market for this game.

Yeah, that's what's confusing me. This game is extremely niche, it's not even dubbed. Even the name is bizarre and unrecognizable by general audiences. It's clear this is meant to target Japanese gaming enthusiasts, so why do these bizarre localization choices. The family friendly thing, to me again, just doesn't makes sense considering that's not the people who are buying such a bizarre niche Japanese game.

 

[Crash Station]

They always do.

I can't hate on "censorship" when it improves something, like it does MOST OF THE TIME in these specific cases.

These specific cases haven't just been changing content, they've been removing it. Getting rid of choices in Bravely Second, deleting functions and support conversations in Fire Emblem, completely missing the point in Fatal Frame V; these are not things that improve the game and Nintendo doing this stuff is really starting to get aggravating.

Maybe the Hot Spring DLC is really cool, I don't know because I'll never get a chance to see it.

 

[Tohsaka]

Good. This means that 13 year olds whose parents were as strict as mine in regards to media content will have an easier time convincing daddy to let them play this game.

Like do not get me started on how even when I was like 15 I still had that issue. And I could just forget about playing anything rated M.

This game is easily tame enough that it would've gotten a T rating if they left everything in.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Atlus's PR manager straight up said the changes are because of Nintendo.

It's not Atlus's fault.

So we have an old school yard "He did it!" situation here.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Why bump the age and then change the outfits? Idk, everyone was expecting this but it's always confusing why they go through the effort for a game like this, there's no sales to gain and all it's going to do is bother fans. There isn't a parent in the country who knows about this game and was waiting to see if it got changed so they could buy it for their kid, there are probably barely even any kids under the age of 16 who know what this game is. The game is gonna bomb either way, just leave it alone.

As usual I'm still gonna get it, it's not like voting with your dollars is going to help on a game that isn't going to make any money anyways.

 

[K.Sabot]

I think we were pretty sure that it wasn't just the rating, Nintendo is trying to protect their image + their new hot IP Fire Emblem. Ties back to the whole face-rubbing removal thing, harmless in the view of the ESRB for sure, but jives against the image Ninty wants.

Personally I think they've gone way too far and canceled my order already, but I usually find the ESRB to be pretty consistent when it comes to content like this.

People always pull the rating argument in these threads but neglect to remember that Demon's Gaze or the original Mugen Souls or Ar Nosurge or EVEN THE FIRST SENRAN KAGURA GAME was rated T.

If you want to know what ESRB thinks T rated is, search those games with "CG" after the name in the comfort of your own home and not at work.

 

[Sakura]

I think we were pretty sure that it wasn't just the rating, Nintendo is trying to protect their image + their new hot IP Fire Emblem. Ties back to the whole face-rubbing removal thing, harmless in the view of the ESRB for sure, but jives against the image Ninty wants.

Personally I think they've gone way too far and canceled my order already, but I usually find the ESRB to be pretty consistent when it comes to content like this.

On some base level though I can at least somewhat understand FE censorship, even if I disagree with it. It is a million+ seller that has a much wider audience.
But this is such an incredibly niche game on a niche system. They are making changes for an audience that doesn't exist.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I really, REALLY can't get upset about costume changes, and I don't understand why it sparks so much outrage.

That said, arbitrarily increasing the ages of characters is dumb. They were originally written to act like a certain age. It's not a big deal in this case since it's literally a one-year change, but it's sti a crappy practice in general.

Still going to buy the game of course. I'm not "angry" about this by any stretch--it isn't worth that--but I am mildly dissapointed.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

I'm sure it was Atlus. You know, the publisher that localized Conception 2, Dragon's Crown and Dungeon Travelers 2. They HATE that stuff.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So we have an old school yard "He did it!" situation here.

Nintendo themselves have said the changes are on them.

 

[Toxi]

Don't see the issue; it's voting with your wallet and as long as the first sale doctrine is a thing you can still chose whom to give money to.

Eh, you're right. I just never really did something like that when I didn't like the decisions made with a game; if something in a game is enough for me to not want to support the publisher, I generally don't buy the game because of that thing.

 

[Balb]

On some base level though I can at least somewhat understand FE censorship, even if I disagree with it. It is a million+ seller that has a much wider audience.
But this is such an incredibly niche game on a niche system. They are making changes for an audience that doesn't exist.

They probably want to protect their image and prioritize that over appeasing a small audience. Nintendo isn't really a good fit to publish games like this.

 

[Palculator]

I'm sure it was Atlus. You know, the publisher that localized Conception 2, Dragon's Crown and Dungeon Travelers 2. They HATE that stuff.

To be fair, Dungeon Travellers 2 was censored, but that was to dodge an AO rating which this game would most assuredly not have received.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Love how they increase the age only to censor the swimsuit stuff. What's the fucking point of changing the age then?

 

[MrSaturn99]

While I personally don't care about these changes, I find them to be the only valid source of criticism in the sea of ridiculous "censorship" controversies over the past year or so, particularly in how a) they aren't really consistent with other NOA/Atlus localization practices, and b) fanservice is the norm for media like this. It's not like Fire Emblem or Xenoblade where it's merely peripheral.

At the same time though, I agree with Toxi in that boycotting the game sends the message you care more about the cut content than the actual game itself (and don't even get me started on anyone using this as a springboard for the "ARRGGHH NINTENDO BUTCHERING TEH LOCALIZATION" BS).

 

[Crash Station]

"I hate what you did to this game so much I refuse to give you money for it because of my principles when I buy it to play and enjoy it anyway."

Would you also criticize people that enjoy Nintendo games, but only buy them used due to the company's usage of conflict minerals in their products?

Obviously changes like this aren't in the same stratosphere as that, but some people have principles that they'd like to stick to. I see nothing wrong with a sort of boycott to send a message to Nintendo beyond being dissatisfied with cut content in this one game but the fact they're doing it a lot lately and people are sick of it. Not that a boycott would work of course.

 

[Eila]

Yokai Watch is literally a kids' game so that's a different matter.

Bravely you might have a point, but what was the issue with that? The Native American costume is a totally different matter than sexual stuff. The only other thing I heard of was an artbook being altered but not having seen the art I can't comment on it. The other difference between that and Bayonetta, i should point out, is the art style in Bravely makes the characters look young, while Bayonetta is clearly an adult woman. So that may factor into things as well.

They changed a bunch of revealing joke costumes in both games. And also they removed a questline in the second where you could get a bad end or something.
Pretty sure they placed the blame on Squeenix in that case, as well.

 

[Ponn]

On some base level though I can at least somewhat understand FE censorship, even if I disagree with it. It is a million+ seller that has a much wider audience.
But this is such an incredibly niche game on a niche system. They are making changes for an audience that doesn't exist.

Sums up my feelings. With the very recent Wii U/NX and Zelda shit show going on and i've been debating on getting a Wii U or holding out I think i'm just going to cancel my preorder for this game and stop checking for the SE on amazon. Cosmetic changes are usually whatever to me, didn't effect FE Fates for me. I draw the line at cutting content completely though. I almost didn't pick up Bravely Second for the same reason till I learned they kept the content but just tweaked the dialogue and costume. i can deal with playing nice for a regions hypocritical puritanical views but cut content is cut content. Label it censorship or localization or whatever makes you feel righteous about your views but the result is the same.

 

[Toxi]

Would you also criticize people that enjoy Nintendo games, but only buy them used due to the company's usage of conflict minerals in their products?

The difference here is that the boycott's because of a perceived change of quality to the actual product.

Which is more along the lines of boycotting because of Day 1 on-disc DLC or predatory micro-transactions than your example.

 

[Griss]

What's the point of bringing this super niche jrpg about pop idols that's so hardcore they're not even going to dub into english if they're going to censor things?

Of course none of it is worth the pitchforks and torches some parts of the internet I'm sure they'll cry for but why even do it? None of it was even in the same level of raunchiness as Fatal Frame V. Just rate it "M" and let them have it.

And why would NoJ be okay with all this while NoA wouldn't?

This. The only (tiny) audience for this game would be super sensitive to this. It makes no sense.

As someone lukewarm about the whole thing if I'm not going to get the whole quirky j-idol experience I don't see why I wouldn't pass on this.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Yeah, that's what's confusing me. This game is extremely niche, it's not even dubbed. Even the name is bizarre and unrecognizable by general audiences. It's clear this is meant to target Japanese gaming enthusiasts, so why do these bizarre localization choices. The family friendly thing, to me again, just doesn't makes sense considering that's not the people who are buying such a bizarre niche Japanese game.

Pretty much this. Cutting out content that niche audiences are okay with but more mainstream ones maybe wouldn't be is fine if your game is actually trying to/has a chance at appealing to said mainstream audiences. This is basically the most weeaboo game Nintendo's ever localized, to the point where they aren't even dubbing the fucking thing, so that doesn't really apply here. 99% of the people who would be turned off by the shit they're changing would be turned off by the game's general premise/aesthetics long before seeing that stuff.

 

[muteki]

Yeah, that's what's confusing me. This game is extremely niche, it's not even dubbed. Even the name is bizarre and unrecognizable by general audiences. It's clear this is meant to target Japanese gaming enthusiasts, so why do these bizarre localization choices. The family friendly thing, to me again, just doesn't makes sense considering that's not the people who are buying such a bizarre niche Japanese game.

It is in the business' best interest to market to the largest group possible, even though in reality everyone in their right mind know this isn't going to be a mainstream hit. Whatever it takes to get the suits to sign the checks to bring it over.

Nintendo is looking at the # of potential sales they could make by appealing to someone who has never heard of this before, and comparing that to the # of people they think they will piss off into not buying it, and making a business decision.

Not saying it makes sense though.

 

[Vena]

They changed a bunch of revealing joke costumes in both games. And also they removed a questline in the second where you could get a bad end or something.
Pretty sure they placed the blame on Squeenix in that case, as well.

That was Square Enix.

 

[Menitta]

I'll never understand the train of thought of hating a game because of minor costume changes. They're so minor, why does it hinder enjoyment of the entire game? I'm not talking about this game in particular. This is in general.

 

[Ridley327]

They changed a bunch of revealing joke costumes in both games. And also they removed a questline in the second where you could get a bad end or something.
Pretty sure they placed the blame on Squeenix in that case, as well.

In that case, it is because Squenix was the manager on the project. All Nintendo did was pay their bills.

 

[Shun]

They're marketing this game to people who want to try something new, something that hasn't been done before.

That's how it was described in the Nintendo direct, and they're continuing to market to people who want to try something different and new, like an RPG with a lot of entertainment industry elements.

They're not specifically saying "This is for people who like anime and anime games".

The game already sold like shit, they want to get whatever sales they can get, and the "anime" audience isn't the only audience for the game.

Arguably, you could ask the question as to why NCL would greenlight an idol-focused RPG on the Wii U in the first place.

Because it is a passionate project that the people at Atlus and AVEX wanted to do? That they wanted to make it happen and sell CDs for the game despite thinking it could do poorly. Which ended up happening.

Again the game is LESS of an idol game than Yakuza 5. #FE uses the entertainment industry as a focus and motif as a coat of paint, but you're not really out here actively participating and hosting events the same way that Haruka does in Yakuza 5 and you're sure as hell not dealing with the same controversy and harassment she faces in Yakuza 5. Of which they focus more on idols in Yakuza 5 than #FE.

 

[Vena]

Because it is a passionate project that the people at Atlus and AVEX wanted to do? That they wanted to make it happen and sell CDs for the game despite thinking it could do poorly. Which ended up happening.

Clearly this will lead to a sequel!