Riots outside Trump Rally in Orange County

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Nobody has to sympathize, but I don't think we can solve the problems of the rural white voter by ignoring the trees of their actual grievances for the forest of the larger and necessary narrative of social progress in America. Just like there is a reason for the violence we saw at this protest, there is a reason for the anger and fear white America is expressing through their support of Trump.

Ignoring it or dismissing it will only cause it to galvanize.

Though, nobody owes White America sympathy or patience in these matters.



Why can't we criticize American Liberalism while also recognizing the good it has done?

Criticism that helps glean some understanding or insight into a particular failing or for making a particular point is productive. What I responded to was just another false equivalence, criticism meant to confuse, not clarify.

I wouldn't generalize the rural white voter, but rather the conservative voter. They have a different set of priorities. Progress is not among them, much less evidence-based governing. It's their own responsiblity to acknowledge the inconsistencies and/or lack of evidence that predicates those priorities. They prop up fools like Trump and Cruz who do harm to the country, and they rightly should be held responsible. Until by and large they can and are willing to do that and take responsiblity, it's not a problem anyone can solve. Maybe when liberals stop cleaning up conservative messes, they'll stop making them. Of course liberals always will, that's what we have to do to keep the country afloat.
 
I think this thread makes one thing really clear; if you're Muslim, if you're Latino, if you're black, your life does not matter. Violence against you does not matter. Threats against you do not matter. Your safety and security rank well below the value of a cvs or cop car window.

Right now, we have a white nationalist running a successful campaign for president. He's endorsed by the KKK. At his rallies, people of color are beaten and physically thrown out. The Klan is having open demonstrations all across the country. My friend, an African American man, was punched in the face by a Trump supporter. The police pulled the supporter to safety. My friend was arrested later that night for protesting.

But when people of color try to defend themselves against racists/KKK/white nationalists, when they say 'if you try to hold your ugly rallies in public, we will fight back' we are condemned.

As a black Latino, I can not afford to be ignorant of the history of white nationalist movements. I know that after KKK rallies, there are beatings, burnings, and lynchings.

What we see in Orange County are people of color aggresively combating this resurgence in white nationalism. They're doing it because they value their own lives more than the property they destroyed. If you want to condemn them, then I hope to god you are a pacifist. Because otherwise, you are encouraging violence against people of color, full stop. We've already seen that police will protect violent KKK and Trump supporters while arresting anti-fascists. The state, which has a far greater capacity for violence then antifas, has made it clear that it will protect white nationalists as it always has. The state has made it clear that it will not stop committing and condoning act so of violence against POC. If you oppose resistance to this, you are voting for the status quo - violence against Muslims, Latinos, and Blacks..If you condemn POC for defending themselves, you are siding with the strong against the weak.
 
On the same token, people cherry pick a few instances of Trump supporters throwing punches and condemn that entire movement as well. Nothing excuses it in either case. People are right to be outraged at a Trump supporter sucker punching a protester who is being led out of the building, and people are right to be outraged at anti-Trump protesters bloodying up Trump supporters.

And you continue to deflect

It's not about a handful of dickweeds who act out in violence, don't try to reduce it to that.
 
related (and funny).

vote2016flowchart_zpsopmb8sfi.jpg~original

Haha I love it!
 
I think this thread makes one thing really clear; if you're Muslim, if you're Latino, if you're black, your life does not matter. Violence against you does not matter. Threats against you do not matter. Your safety and security rank well below the value of a cvs or cop car window.

Right now, we have a white nationalist running a successful campaign for president. He's endorsed by the KKK. At his rallies, people of color are beaten and physically thrown out. The Klan is having open demonstrations all across the country. My friend, an African American man, was punched in the face by a Trump supporter. The police pulled the supporter to safety. My friend was arrested later that night for protesting.

But when people of color try to defend themselves against racists/KKK/white nationalists, when they say 'if you try to hold your ugly rallies in public, we will fight back' we are condemned.

As a black Latino, I can not afford to be ignorant of the history of white nationalist movements. I know that after KKK rallies, there are beatings, burnings, and lynchings.

What we see in Orange County are people of color aggresively combating this resurgence in white nationalism. They're doing it because they value their own lives more than the property they destroyed. If you want to condemn them, then I hope to god you are a pacifist. Because otherwise, you are encouraging violence against people of color, full stop. We've already seen that police will protect violent KKK and Trump supporters while arresting anti-fascists. The state, which has a far greater capacity for violence then antifas, has made it clear that it will protect white nationalists as it always has. The state has made it clear that it will not stop committing and condoning act so of violence against POC. If you oppose resistance to this, you are voting for the status quo - violence against Muslims, Latinos, and Blacks..If you condemn POC for defending themselves, you are siding with the strong against the weak.

Defending themselves? (Almost) no one is faulting the protesters for protesting! What people are complaining about is those individuals throwing rocks at passing motorists. Those motorists were not coming to hit them when the rocks were thrown. They were passing through. I'm glad that steps are being taken to protest trump rallies, but violent protest is not the way to go about it, and those people who made an otherwise peaceful protest violent are not to be celebrated.

EDIT: I should also make it clear that this is not an attempt to invalidate those who wish to protest a horrible man as a whole. It is tragic the oppression that such people have suffered, and I recognize that Trump's words have done and continue to do horrible harm to many people of color around the country. The shame here is not who the violence was used by, it is that violence was used at all.
 
I'm fine for protests especially against Republicans/Trump...but yea protests != violent disruption. Even Obama condemned the Baltimore rioters as being nothing more than 'criminals and thugs'. Protesting is a great right but events like these are even more unlikable than our presidential frontrunners, especially to the eyes of the public
 
Defending themselves? (Almost) no one is faulting the protesters for protesting! What people are complaining about is those individuals throwing rocks at passing motorists. Those motorists were not coming to hit them when the rocks were thrown. They were passing through. I'm glad that steps are being taken to protest trump rallies, but violent protest is not the way to go about it, and those people who made an otherwise peaceful protest violent are not to be celebrated.

If you condemn that you are encouraging violence against people of color, full stop.
 
And you continue to deflect

It's not about a handful of dickweeds who act out in violence, don't try to reduce it to that.

I'm not deflecting anything, I'm just talking about something you're not interested in talking about. Nobody is asking you to participate, so stop impugning my motives.
 
What's the alternative? What do you want people to do? Sit by and let a racist scumbag feel welcome in one of the most diverse parts of the country? No, there needs to be push back. It doesn't need to have an objective. Because there is nothing people can do outside of protest to have their voices heard. And this was the people trying to have their voices heard. Many of them were chanting for Bernie, but we all know their votes are going to be thrown away come the California primary, so what do you want them to do? Vote hopelessly over and over again?

Protest is the only option when it comes to this.

Whoa whoa buddy, settle down and read some out of context MLK quotes.

People being mad at protesters for affecting the flow of society don't understand protest.
 
If you knew the area you would know that it would have to be random.

Unless you're suggesting that every car on Newport Boulevard on a Thursday evening is clearly the car of a Trump supporter.


Defending themselves? (Almost) no one is faulting the protesters for protesting! What people are complaining about is those individuals throwing rocks at passing motorists. Those motorists were not coming to hit them when the rocks were thrown. They were passing through.
No one should throw rocks at random cars that have people in them.

But attacking white nationalists is self defense if you're a POC.

I'm fine for protests especially against Republicans/Trump...but yea protests != violent disruption. Even Obama condemned the Baltimore rioters as being nothing more than 'criminals and thugs'.

That's because Obama loves talking down to black people using coded racist language.
 
If you condemn that you are encouraging violence against people of color, full stop.

Is this such a binary issue? I do not believe that refusing to condone violence from any side is tantamount to encouraging violence perpetrated as a result of hate speech. What did adding violence to this protest accomplish? It soured the image of the protest overall, as well as hurt individuals who were unrelated to the cause of the protest. Nothing that I can think of is improved by adding violence, and this is no exception.
 
Is this such a binary issue? I do not believe that refusing to condone violence from any side is tantamount to encouraging violence perpetrated as a result of hate speech. What did adding violence to this protest accomplish? It soured the image of the protest overall, as well as hurt individuals who were unrelated to the cause of the protest. Nothing that I can think of is improved by adding violence, and this is no exception.

I thought this too until I read up on Nelson Mandela and a few books about resident schools. I'd say violence is a good last resort, if peaceful protest is being repressed.
 
Not to sound insensitive, but they are kind of playing into his hand here. Rioting is just going to fire up Trump's supporters even more.
 
No matter what your colour or creed is, you do not have carte blanche to do whatever you like and have it swept under the rug because "I'm passionate/angry about X".

If you're the kind of person that would a punch a man for wearing a Make America Great Again hat or on the other side for holding a Black Lives Matter sign, you're a piece of shit and that's that.
 
Is this such a binary issue? I do not believe that refusing to condone violence from any side is tantamount to encouraging violence perpetrated as a result of hate speech. What did adding violence to this protest accomplish? It soured the image of the protest overall, as well as hurt individuals who were unrelated to the cause of the protest. Nothing that I can think of is improved by adding violence, and this is no exception.

I have to ask why people are actively ignoring how much violence occurred back in the Civil Right Movement and Sexual Revolution in the 20th century by protesters. Stonewall Riots, Watts Riots, etc., etc. Some of these were important to the movements they were related to. I can't speak for the civil rights movement, but Stonewall is what build the modern LGBT community and movement. Violence is a legitimate tool for protesters to use, it's just how you use it. I like to believe it should be used if your voice is being oppressed and unheard, that not even peaceful ways can help. Dr. King said it best:


Protesters of Trump have tried to do the peaceful method, but it doesn't work. They get attacked, beaten, dragged outside by law enforcement, and when a peaceful protester gets beaten, the cops arrest them and not the one who struck them first. We've seen this happen over the course of his campaign, and Trump suffers no repercussions for his bigotry and advocacy of violence. I'm not surprised if many feel violence is starting to seem like a viable option now.
 
Not to sound insensitive, but they are kind of playing into his hand here. Rioting is just going to fire up Trump's supporters even more.

But then they wouldn't be able to hold up signs about being the Silent Majority.

Part of me hopes they do get riled up. I'd rather they wear their true feelings on their sleeves. It's not going to help them win the election anyway.

I do not condone this pointless violence mind you, it accomplishes nothing but turns otherwise sympathetic people away.
 
How many of these people will actually go out and vote when the time comes? Whether you like the man or not, there's no reason to get violent and reckless. I saw a video on channel 7 where there was a person in his car doing donuts in the middle of a crowd. Protests are fine, but really?

Politics.
 
Partly yes.

1) He wants to "build a wall" which is metaphorical and real. Many legal immigrants in the US have family in Mexico that they support (monetarily) and visit. Trump's "wall" is seen as a way to cut off Mexico from America and thus to cut off Mexican Americans from family.

2) He has called illegal immigrants, in the past, rapists and murderers.

3) He has been dismissive of Mexican culture multiple times throughout his campaign.

4) Mexican American culture is, believe it or not, surprisingly conservative... but those conservative values are rooted in Family and Religion, two things that Trump is ignoring in his stump speeches.

You forgot the part about deporting 11 million people, which I'm sure is going to be done in a very efficient and compassionate manner and is totally not going to turn into a brown people witch hunt.

Yeah this will strengthen support to his supporters, too bad his supporters aren't anywhere near enough to win the election.

I feel like this is something that keeps getting ignored whenever people bring up this "you're just giving him more ammunition" argument. Oh nooo, you mean he's gonna do even better among white supremacists, casual racists, and angry white men in general? Because that's totally still a successful strategy in 2016. The fact is he's doing horribly among the people you really need to win a presidency, meaning women voters, meaning "the blacks" as he likes to call them, and on top of that he's basically made sure that the GOP's "lets get Latinos voting for us for some reason" plan is a smoking crater in the ground.
 
How many of these people will actually go out and vote when the time comes? Whether you like the man or not, there's no reason to get violent and reckless. I saw a video on channel 7 where there was a person in his car doing donuts in the middle of a crowd. Protests are fine, but really?

Politics.

That's the only real way to stop this bullshit.
 
Is this really a riot or is the media just throwing riot out there to paint a negative picture of the protest?

That's what I'm willing to bet.

I'm willing to bet most protesters were just protesting. Probably had only a few dickheads who were fighting and breaking windows.
 
No matter what your colour or creed is, you do not have carte blanche to do whatever you like and have it swept under the rug because "I'm passionate/angry about X".

If you're the kind of person that would a punch a man for wearing a Make America Great Again hat or on the other side for holding a Black Lives Matter sign, you're a piece of shit and that's that.


Yep. Blocking highways is one thing, and I can understand why people would resort to that as a means of protest, but doing physical violence is crossing the line. That's just wrong.
 
Is this really a riot or is the media just throwing riot out there to paint a negative picture of the protest?

Probably just a few broken windows and the like with lots of embellishment for that extra buzz. Nothing exciting or crazy ever happens here in OC. Lots of rich Republicans though that absolutely love Trump, one glance at my FB wall lol...
 
No matter what your colour or creed is, you do not have carte blanche to do whatever you like and have it swept under the rug because "I'm passionate/angry about X".

If you're the kind of person that would a punch a man for wearing a Make America Great Again hat or on the other side for holding a Black Lives Matter sign, you're a piece of shit and that's that.
Word. "It's self defense for a POC to attack racists" is Sears Tower height of absurdity.

Things turn violent when peaceful discourse gets ignored.
Bullshit. We have a system in place for "peaceful discourse" in opposition to Trump.

It's called voting.
 
If you want to stop Donald Trump, make sure you and everybody you know is going to the voting booths when necessary.

The more visible and effective the protests against him, the more effective the opposing campaign will be.

No left leaning independent or lefist is going to say "welp, I'm voting for Trump because someone threw a rock through a window", luckily.

By effective, I mean something like Chicago, not this.
 
Things turn violent when peaceful discourse gets ignored.

Trump is not even president. He hasn't even won the primary. He's most likely going to lose the presidency because He's historically unpopular outside of the republican base. Trump has no power currently so at this point getting violent over his rhetoric is not a good look and only empowers him.

I'm not saying violence is never ever the answer but in this case it was not warranted against a likely failed candidate
 
No one should throw rocks at random cars that have people in them.

But attacking white nationalists is self defense if you're a POC.

No, it's not until the white nationalists do something. A "get them before they get me" stance is not a good one to have in most scenarios.

I have to ask why people are actively ignoring how much violence occurred back in the Civil Right Movement and Sexual Revolution in the 20th century by protesters. Stonewall Riots, Watts Riots, etc., etc. Some of these were important to the movements they were related to. I can't speak for the civil rights movement, but Stonewall is what build the modern LGBT community and movement. Violence is a legitimate tool for protesters to use, it's just how you use it. I like to believe it should be used if your voice is being oppressed and unheard, that not even peaceful ways can help. Dr. King said it best:

Even if the end result was positive, that doesn't mean we can't look at the individual events as negative. Hindsight is 20/20, and on an individual level, the Watts Riots were similarly disgusting as people that had nothing to do with the state of civil rights in the country were victims. It's an "ends justify the means" argument that I'm not comfortable taking the side of. King deplored the methods as well, even though he understood why they happened as do I. I don't know as much about Stonewall, so I won't take a stance either way.

Protests are good, and there are scenarios where violent protests can be good too, but pick your targets. Throwing rocks at random people that have nothing to do with Trump is not going to endear people to your cause. It's going to turn them away.
 
We have a system in place for "peaceful discourse" in opposition to Trump.

It's called voting.

I like to believe that not many are truly worried about Trump winning the presidency, what is worrying is how Trump's popularity has planted the seed that makes open bigotry seem okay to some people. His ideology and dangerous rhetorics will not be forgotten when he loses the general, it will be even more ingrained into his supporters minds and that's not good.
 
I like to believe that not many are truly worried about Trump winning the presidency, what is worrying is how Trump's popularity has planted the seed that makes open bigotry seem okay to bigoted people. His ideology and dangerous rhetorics will not be forgotten when he loses the general, it will be even more ingrained into his supporters minds and that's not good. That's really what people are mostly protesting about, not him in general, but his policies, his ideologies, and rhetoric that he's implanting into his close minded followers minds.

And getting violent is not going to solidify Trumps positions with his supporters?
 
What's worse is that the violence and chaos plays right into Trump's anti-immigrant message.

Trump couldn't have asked for a better outcome as far as his messaging is concerned.

He can take photos and videos from the night, showing people running around, proudly displaying the Mexican flag, why decrying American politics and destroying property and then display those as "proof" that his stance is correct.

Trump's media director is probably giddy tonight. Those rioters did Trump's team a massive solid.

Ding ding fucking ding.

Things turn violent when peaceful discourse gets ignored.

:/
 
Is this really a riot or is the media just throwing riot out there to paint a negative picture of the protest?

The article doesnt even call it a riot "Protests rage outside Trump rally in Orange County; 17 arrested, police car smashed" is the title. There is also photo and video evidence of what happened there.

Can people please decide if the media is biased in favor of or against Trump?
 
And getting violent is not going to solidify Trumps positions with his supporters?

To some people, it shows those supporters repercussion for following such positions. It shows them that these people that hold bigoted beliefs are willing to go to extremes against them if they continue to oppress them further, that they refuse to sit down and take their crap without a fight. I also am not defending them for performing such violent acts in this protest despite as much as I can understand why it is happening.

Even if the end result was positive, that doesn't mean we can't look at the individual events as negative. Hindsight is 20/20, and on an individual level, the Watts Riots were similarly disgusting as people that had nothing to do with the state of civil rights in the country were victims. It's an "ends justify the means" argument that I'm not comfortable taking the side of. King deplored the methods as well, even though he understood why they happened as do I. I don't know as much about Stonewall, so I won't take a stance either way.

Protests are good, and there are scenarios where violent protests can be good too, but pick your targets. Throwing rocks at random people that have nothing to do with Trump is not going to endear people to your cause. It's going to turn them away.

I am perfectly comfortable with such philosophy of "ends justify the means", sadly. I am generally a pacifist, but sometimes, there's not another option to get things done as much as it disgusts me. As an activist, I will always seek out the most peaceful solutions, even when I'm physically, verbally and even sexually attacked or assaulted, and I encourage other to do the same but I can understand why people will sooner turn to violence after running out of options.
 
Violence accompanies almost all human activity that involves conflict, especially if it's an organized public protest to an ideologue inciting hate and divisiveness in the country. It's still nice to remind everyone that violence is wrong, though.

The more visible and effective the protests against him, the more effective the opposing campaign will be.

No left leaning independent or lefist is going to say "welp, I'm voting for Trump because someone threw a rock through a window", luckily.

By effective, I mean something like Chicago, not this.

That is offset by an order of magnitude from voters who have no interest in voting for someone with no experience and who creates this kind of unrest. Especially not directly after 8 years of Obama.
 
I'm fine for protests especially against Republicans/Trump...but yea protests != violent disruption. Even Obama condemned the Baltimore rioters as being nothing more than 'criminals and thugs'. Protesting is a great right but events like these are even more unlikable than our presidential frontrunners, especially to the eyes of the public

Lmao.


Remember all the protesters that just had signs that were attacked at rallys or were Grice forcefully ejected? or the people attacked by Trump supporters just randomly?

Please do this more and show why he shouldn't be president.
 
I feel like this is something that keeps getting ignored whenever people bring up this "you're just giving him more ammunition" argument. Oh nooo, you mean he's gonna do even better among white supremacists, casual racists, and angry white men in general? Because that's totally still a successful strategy in 2016. The fact is he's doing horribly among the people you really need to win a presidency, meaning women voters, meaning "the blacks" as he likes to call them, and on top of that he's basically made sure that the GOP's "lets get Latinos voting for us for some reason" plan is a smoking crater in the ground.

I feel like liberals regularly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, so I'm far less ready to discount that Trump has a chance at the presidency. At the very least it's a dangerous attitude to have when so many people who get riled up about him can't or won't vote when push comes to shove. Better to be a bit wary.

Dr. King said it best:

King might have had an addendum to add to that sentiment when urban black America ate itself in riots after he died, but either way it's kind of tiresome to have everyone on all sides of these debates just keep quoting him like he's scripture.
 
The article doesnt even call it a riot "Protests rage outside Trump rally in Orange County; 17 arrested, police car smashed" is the title.

Did you miss the quote of one of the participants calling it a riot?

A riot is defined as a violent protest. This qualifies.
 
Did you miss the quote of one of the participants calling it a riot?

A riot is defined as a violent protest. This qualifies.

I was just responding to the poster that was not-so-subtlety claiming the article was biased against the protesters. Edited my previous post so its more apparent.
 
serious question here... what is latino's issue with trump? that he wants to clamp down on illegal immigration and build a wall along the mexican border?
I wonder why we have an issue with a candidate teumpting racist ass shit against the Mexican American community and talking about deporting millions of people. Could it be shit like mass deportation in the 30's of legal citizens or shit like operation wetback which again deported legal citizens. Fact is people can't tell an undocumented person from a citizen. So guess what happens? We're all painted with a broad stoke. We already saw that the only thing that matters is our brown skin and we'll be god damned if we have to endure yet another wave of deportation based on our skin color and language.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-are-3-things-to-know-about-operation-wetback

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...on-may-sound-unlikely-but-its-happened-before
 
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