Maybe it's because Hillary and Bernie haven't said any kind of hate speech towards any group of people. It really isn't that difficult to see why this occurred against Trump. Besides, there have already been a good number of violent incidents by Trump supporters. Figures hate speech empowers racists and breeds resentment against him and his ilk.
Riots outside Trump Rally in Orange County
- Thread starter johnsmith
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I'm still laughing at the idea that "there is no such thing as violence against property".
This is some 1910s socialist nonsense up in here.
He has been consistently borderline belligerent towards Mexico. He's not only proposing to build a wall, but will force Mexico to pay for it. One thing is to build the stupid wall, but why do we have to pay for it? Because Mexico sends its rapist and murderers, that's why according to him. And is not clear his stance on the millions of people that live beyond Mexico's south borders. Is "Mexico" and "Mexican" code word for all of Latin America? Most of illegal immigrants come from Central America nowadays.
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MeisaMcCaffrey
All this could have been avoided if Trump didn't call them 'criminals and rapists', but destroying public property is inexcusable. I understand that people can be very emotional and tensions can flare up very easily. It's very easy to divide people for political benefit but in the long run it will greatly harm the country. People in power or with influence should be careful about what they say. There is a reason politicians usually say PC things.There is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to enforce America's immigration laws, but it's a very complicated situation and should be handled delicately.
Destroying public property usually doesn't achieve anything. It is shitty, and people defending it would probably not say the same thing if it was their property. America is a vibrant democracy and should set an example to the world, and the best way to stop Trump is to vote against him. Also, I feel like people like Soros are encouraging these violent protests, his PAC Moveon.org was behind the Chicago protests. I hope there's no mass rioting and chaos during the GE.
Destroying public property usually doesn't achieve anything. It is shitty, and people defending it would probably not say the same thing if it was their property. America is a vibrant democracy and should set an example to the world, and the best way to stop Trump is to vote against him. Also, I feel like people like Soros are encouraging these violent protests, his PAC Moveon.org was behind the Chicago protests. I hope there's no mass rioting and chaos during the GE.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
You gotta love the gall of people that base their entire worldview on these economic philosophies and then complain when people "put rhetoric over reality". Trump is popular because he appeals to peoples' base instincts, and no amount of elitist hand-wringing is going to make him any less compelling; in fact it actually makes him more popular. When you act like it is OK to attack people for just supporting Trump you enable him to corral more people who begin to perhaps rightly fear that more bad things may happen to them. And if you think you have the right to make their lives worse because they might make your life worse, why would you be surprised if they felt the same way?
Calamari41
41 > 38
Nothing gives you the right to do this to another person. Really magical stuff, Malfunky.
My wife works blocks away from there and thought about walking down to see what was going on. Should she have received this treatment for the act of being in the vicinity? This guy was bloodied for wearing a hat.
These same working class people that socialist elites want to be on their anti-establishment anarchistic side are being convinced instead that they're being shut out of governance and attacked by the traditional minorities in America. It's not hard to see why they flock to Trump, even if they don't agree with all of his most insane and sometimes violent rhetoric. The division in this country isn't going to be solved by removing ideas of property, especially when sometimes for these poor white rural voters the idea of property is all they have to show for generations of hard, subsidised labor.
I think there is a distinct lack of empathy on the extreme left for the fear and sometimes desperation that Trump is taking advantage of. The fear and desperation has nothing to do with racial bias in a lot of cases.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Interestingly, if you listen to Trump and Sanders talk about outsourcing and trade deals, they give incredibly similar speeches.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I think this is a very important point to make because it is one of the main ways the Progressive Left hand-waves away how much they dehumanize the kinds of people that end up supporting Trump. I can't even recall how many times I've tried to explain how Trump supports are turning to him because they feel marginalized and hated only for some Progressive to get all upset over how much these people ruin the lives of traditional minorities and are just getting their just desserts -- a mentality which, I might add, vindicates racist behavior anyway. And a lot of Trump types don't even interact with members of these minority communities in any capacity whatsoever, especially the rural Trump supporters. The real problems stem from large societal issues which the liberal elites are just as complicit in. And to be honest, if the Berniebros are any indication, I think a lot of progressives only care about these minorities because they vote in ways that they like; look at the rhetoric towards African American voters that decide to vote for Clinton instead of Bernie because it is in their interest to do so.
To me once a protest turns violent on a large scale like this seems to have, it's a riot. I am not coming from any sort of agenda against the protestors, and I am literally the same sort of person they are and completely sympathize with their message, if not their actions. I'm a first generation Mexican-American that grew up in east LA, I moved away but if I was still living there I could have easily been at this event.
kame-sennin
Member
Calamari41
41 > 38
If you knew the area you would know that it would have to be random.
Unless you're suggesting that every car on Newport Boulevard on a Thursday evening is clearly the car of a Trump supporter.
A lot of Latinos are socially conservative, even poor ones.
good let him up his rhetoric. this will only light a fire under latino people's asses and get them to the voting booth in november.
All I see is a bunch of vandals being stupid and breaking shit for no good reason.
LucidMomentum
Member
It's because they're angry, because they feel Trump is a good enough reason to be angry.
Trump encourages forcibly removing dissidents at his rallies and there have been numerous reports of violence at his events, often times encouraged by Trump himself.
No it's not right for this to happen and no it's not right that it's encouraged by either side, but it's kind of dense to say it's for no reason.
The reason is Trump.
You don't seem to understand how many latinos think.
" I'm one of the good ones, I played by the rules, and worked hard to give my family a rightly place here".
Sharing a language and a racial label means shit.
kame-sennin
Member
I would love to see these chuckleheads before the last election in Weinmar Germany.
Why? People are fighting to the protect their human rights. This has much less to do with the election and much more to do with combating white nationalism.
This is not that kind of protest, it's called platform denial.
This is not a protest like the ones Bernie or Hillary got. This is a specific tactic called "platform denial" used by anti fascist groups. The purpose is to inform white nationalist groups that if they organize in the open, they will face immediate hostile response from anti fascists. Antifas have a zero tolerance policy on this type of shit.
You may wag your finger at rioters, but what will you do if the KKK comes to my house? Some of us don't have the luxury of engaging in civil debates with white supremacists.
The last anti Trump rally I went to, cops tackled me and put me in plastic cuffs for two hours until I lost circulation in my hands. The rally before that, the cops protected one of Trumps shitty buildings and pepper sprayed my friends. Pigs love Trump.
Glad you're speaking for me, sorry you're wrong though. Probably shouldn't generalize breh.
There is always going to be douchebags who use this an excuse to vandalize.
Unfortunate that it takes away from legit protest concerns. It seems close to impossible in this day and age to have a peaceful protest that isn't ruined by violent and destructive anarchists.
What are protests going to be like if Trump actually gets into a position of political power? America going down the toilet.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Their motivations are understandable, but unfortunately their actions have increased the influence of fear and hatred of each other, and gave a voice to a reckless ideologue that provokes divisiveness and confusion. I appreciate your point, but I don't feel like I should have to sympathize.
Don't hesitate to also thank liberals for maintaining some semblance of evidence-based governing while you throw them under the bus for not all being saints.
The reason is stupidity and ego stroking.
Along the history you find all kind of "reasons" to feel angry and justify shit that didn't need to happen and just made things worse.
Be clever for god's sake.
"Many"
AaronB
Member
Protests are not entirely rational, and it's not like there's no reason to protest Bernie and Hillary. It is noteworthy that they aren't going after the other side in such a contentious campaign season especially given the stereotypical portrayal of the temperament and education level of Trump supporters.
It's not shocking though - any non-liberal speaker going to a college campus is likely to draw protests.
kame-sennin
Member
Why are respectability politics so popular on gaf? Why do liberals, particularly white cis het male liberals, believe they are the target audience for every protest action? Why do people think every political act has to be designed around our nonsense elections?
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
Liberals are not the problem here; hatred of progressive ideologies are what the Trump people feed off of. The issues is that people use the words liberal and progressive interchangeably; when a Trump support for instance rails against liberals they are usually actually referring to progressives.
Who is saying they are the target for any protest action here? If the point of a protest is to engender support or change, it's entirely up for discussion whether the aims or actions of protestors actually bring about that support or change.
There's two issues herethe morals of protesting, and the actual efficacy and pragmatism of it.
Also, I don't understand the statement that not every political act has to be designed around elections. What is the point of a political act if not to prompt change in the political sphere which is done thru elections?
Netherscourge
Banned
Violent protesters are just as much assholes as the Trumpers.
I have no sympathy for them when the cops arrest them, pepper spray them and toss them into police vans like potato sacks.
If you're going to smash property or hurt other people, then fuck you and your cause.
I have no sympathy for them when the cops arrest them, pepper spray them and toss them into police vans like potato sacks.
If you're going to smash property or hurt other people, then fuck you and your cause.
LizardKing
Member
The bizarre part about all this is that for all the reasons people rightly hate Trump and want to protest him, Ted Cruz is worse. Trump is far more accepting and open to people's rights on his worst day than Cruz is on his best. He would also be less of a backwards president than Cruz if we had a gun to our heads. Just shows ignorant people are everywhere.
Folks ignoring your posts is highly entertaining.
Exactly, Cruz is a million times worse than Trump, but thankfully Trump is stumping him down.
kame-sennin
Member
I love you.
There are times in our nation's history where violence is very morally justifiable. Civil war, civil rights, times when society's peace and safety is not worth the injustices it uses to keep it.
We can see society's reaction to Trump's ideals and hopefully it will be defeated during the elections else... well one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
We can see society's reaction to Trump's ideals and hopefully it will be defeated during the elections else... well one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
And people think there's going to be a lack of enthusiasm on the left this election, and that liberals will stay home....
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah right....
My hope is that all this can match the enthusiasm of poor whites, especially in Pennsylvania and Florida
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It's rational enough to not just happen for no good reason. Trump intentionally provokes hate, fear, confusion, intolerance... defends violence against protesters at his own events, etc.
Progressive == liberal. The discrepancies are minor (and boring) enough as to have no bearing on the accusation, much less an overall discussion of this scope.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
If there's anyone that's not enthusiastic, it's the right.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Nothing gives you the right to do this to another person. Really magical stuff, Malfunky.
My wife works blocks away from there and thought about walking down to see what was going on. Should she have received this treatment for the act of being in the vicinity? This guy was bloodied for wearing a hat.
It is so easy to pick out single acts of violence to try to delegitimize a protest
It conveniently allows you to avoid acknowledging the reasons people are angry. It's nothing but deflection.
You see it happen in every single country with every single protest.
In my country we had 100.000 people take to the streets over the new government dismantling a bunch of worker rights immediately after taking office, and the typical suspects ignored 99.990 protestors to act outraged over 10 hooligans who threw in some windows there too.
It sickens me when people do this.
cubicle47b
Member
Hopefully the people throwing rocks at motorists were arrested.
Calamari41
41 > 38
On the same token, people cherry pick a few instances of Trump supporters throwing punches and condemn that entire movement as well. Nothing excuses it in either case. People are right to be outraged at a Trump supporter sucker punching a protester who is being led out of the building, and people are right to be outraged at anti-Trump protesters bloodying up Trump supporters.
Nobody has to sympathize, but I don't think we can solve the problems of the rural white voter by ignoring the trees of their actual grievances for the forest of the larger and necessary narrative of social progress in America. Just like there is a reason for the violence we saw at this protest, there is a reason for the anger and fear white America is expressing through their support of Trump.
Ignoring it or dismissing it will only cause it to galvanize.
Though, nobody owes White America sympathy or patience in these matters.
Why can't we criticize American Liberalism while also recognizing the good it has done?
I agree with your general argument but it treats both sides as equally bad. However specifically one of these groups is energized by and advocates racism and xenophobia and has no underlying rational merit and the other side is reacting to that.
This is not two sides of the same coin.
Most people on GAF aren't hardcore communists/anarchists.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I don't care what energizes one side or the other, or if one side thinks they're more right than the other. You should be able to go to a legally permitted political rally without the fear of having the shit beaten out of you. You should be able to drive down a major road in a highly populated area without having "debris" "heaved" at your car. And on the other side you should be able to peacefully protest a political rally without having to worry about being sucker punched.
The anti-Trump protesters are "right," ok. But to use my specific experience, my wife should be able to walk by to see what's going on without having to think "I wonder if I'm going to have my face caved in by the protesters, who are 'right,' just because I'm in this location."
Exactly, there is no justification for violence on either side. And everyone involved should be locked up. Lets see someone defend "these protesters" when they throw a rock at a vehicle and cause a lethal accident.
Violence is simply wrong.
gutter_trash
Banned
I applaud both of you for wording it correctly.
ME, I disagree with Trump but he has the right to campaign for the Republican nomination and he has the right to book rallies in auditoriums even if he says stupid shit.
if people really want to stop him, then vote against him in the Primaries.
If you want to take your chances in the General, then make sure to vote in November.
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