perfectchaos007
Member
What time is Trump's event? I would like to watch
Riots outside Trump Rally in Orange County
- Thread starter johnsmith
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Calamari41
41 > 38
It just finished. I'm not sure if he has more today.
Audioboxer
Member
It still sends a message, even in the most futile of positions. Recently we had a fairly productive and successful protest in the UK against David Cameron and Panama. It didn't get him to resign, but it raises awareness and lets those up top know even if they were voted in, voters are currently very unhappy as things stand. Being in a place of power doesn't last forever.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
"Jobs and schools not war"
It's kinda funny since, in a manner of speaking, part of Trump's platform actually advocates that very thing. Granted, the devil's in the details.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Pretty much this. It's like addressing a super aggressive personality with a super aggressive response. Some of these protests lately are lacking on the emotional intelligence aspect.
Being this aggressive will likely turn more people against the cause which causes a larger divide. I'd much rather hear clear and well constructed messages that can truly change minds and further the dialogue in a meaningful way.
Audioboxer
Member
I mean I can understand it, and hope if ever put in such a dire position I would heed my own advice, but like it or not it is the right advice given this situation. Protesters must stick together and show they have a grounded, reasonable and better message to deliver than what a candidate and some of his/her supporters may be flogging. That is the only way to win a battle of ideas and convert enough people into reason to get over the finish line.
My worry for America is the other candidates aren't exactly strong... I would vote Bernie, I cannot stand Hillary.
LiquidSword
Member
Huh? I'm genuinely confused. If it's a possibility that the cops escalated the situation how is that not relevant to "Riots outside of Trump Rally"?
But, we don't believe him that's the problem. Trump wants to do things like stopping companies from doing business in other countries, while he is engaged with doing business in other countries. If you are a minority, especially somebody that Trump has said negative things about or has implied negative things, I doubt you'll be waiting for a job from Donald Trump's policies.
It's just like these people that are oppressed by the system and are poor. They turn to man like Donald Trump of all people, a billionaire looking to add a notch on his legacy belt. He doesn't care if you have a job or not. Not really. I refuse to the believe that.
Tranqueris
Banned
You mean that small 5% of stuff he talks about when he isn't talking about killing the families of enemies and saying he's going to "bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding."
?
ryutaro's mama
Member
Somehow, if the roads being blocked would make your blood boil, I'm baffled how you would be ok with someone making eating at your favorite restaurant difficult.
Stop.
Instigators are found at every protest. They do not make up the majority of protests, otherwise, you would see absolute mayhem happening at these protests. There is no wisdom, dialect or maturity that will stop them and the agenda they have to wreck shit. They are not there to protest as much as do shit they wouldn't do outside a protest setting. Safety in numbers and all that...
It is our responsibility to siff through the fuckery and not allow the message of the protest to be lost. It is so fucking lazy to take the chastising approach to everyone there.
For the people there, ACTUALLY PROTESTING, they do keep their heads for the most part.
Stop clumping everyone together as the same group. That is not the case at all and it is part of the problem.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
But instead you get sweated at and called names when trying to attend one of these speeches. The protesters assume you are a racist bigot for even attempting to attend and be informed about the candidates.
Sad that my wife and I couldn't attend one of his events out of fear for ourselves and personal property. Trump has just every right to run a campaign and it is disheartening to see this kind of animosity, not only towards Trump, but towards anybody attending these events.
A group preventing me from eating at my favorite restaurant is not even comparable to a group blocking vital infrastructure and access to medical and security services. Then if you had to get to that hospital there would be people outright attacking you and your property as you tried to get through the crowd.
Audioboxer
Member
Half the shit Trump says I doubt would ever come true, I genuinely believe it is a lot of hot air to drum up a frenzy/press/publicity and seem like he is a different candidate than some of the "insert generic politician here" runners.
However it is not a gamble I would be happy to be staring down the barrel at, no way in hell.
I'm really not, so I hope me stating this is enough to make you happy. I've said multiple times I know passion is running high, and people are provoking, I just utterly cannot accept chaos caused by anyone, no matter the side, is going to end up being productive. Sorry if this view upsets you, but it's the way I see it.
Quite honestly I'm just glad I am not part of any of the mess this election is causing. I have my deepest empathy for Americans caught up in it.
It does sound utterly abysmal.
However it is not a gamble I would be happy to be staring down the barrel at, no way in hell.
I'm really not, so I hope me stating this is enough to make you happy. I've said multiple times I know passion is running high, and people are provoking, I just utterly cannot accept chaos caused by anyone, no matter the side, is going to end up being productive. Sorry if this view upsets you, but it's the way I see it.
Quite honestly I'm just glad I am not part of any of the mess this election is causing. I have my deepest empathy for Americans caught up in it.
It does sound utterly abysmal.
I think maybe you're letting your fear get the best of you. The chances of something like that happening to your or your wife at one of these rallies is about the same as Trump becoming president, virtually none. It seems like a lot when that is what the media focuses on. Well maybe not be swore at, but then there is plenty of that happening on both sides.
Ultimately these protests are very small. He does so many rallies all over the place more than anyone else by far thanks to his private jet. There are hardly any protests and other than the one in Chicago which were mostly Sanders supporters, the protests that do happen are only a few hundred at most and they are few and far between.
Crash Station
Member
Yes, history. If this was a time when the KKK was prominent, it would be easier to take that side. In the modern day when the KKK are a fringe group of idiots whose main talking point has become "whites are being oppressed!", then no, crashing a rally and assaulting members or outright killing them isn't right.
Not that I think it would be right even if they were prominent provided they weren't taking part in any illegal activity. The situation would just be a lot greyer.
LiquidSword
Member
I guarantee that if Hillary or Bernie said "If you see a protester, put them in a stretcher!" There would be outrage among liberals. It would throw this election into even more chaos. On the other side, saying that or "We will carpet bomb the Middle East into oblivion! Let's see if the sand glows!" is just another sound bite.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Hypotheticals and all that.
If someone is kept from life saving aid as a result of a road being blocked during a protest, I will come out and say, "diablos991 was right".
Until then, it is posturing with nothing real associated with it.
Lets not act like his rallies have been nearly as innocent as you're placing them to be either, the man has a right but at the same time his constituents aren't clean and neither is he in inciting them. Attending these rallies is a known quantity at this point. The only disheartening thing here is the simple act of violence being so pervasive during an election year.
All the same, the level of aggression shown this year has been solely a Trump exclusive so who is to be surprised any longer?
Chie Satonaka
Member
This position isn't so fringe anymore.
White Nationalism is on the rise since Obama and has surged under Trump. The KKK's irrelevance being the posterchild for these kinds of groups is dismissive of the sort of loons who are coming out of the woodwork to support this clown.
I'm not saying it's a majority. It's a vocal minority that should be taken seriously. Him winning the election is not likely to happen, but that doesn't mean the side effects of his rhetoric go away, either.
ryutaro's mama
Member
If you support a candidate that calls Mexicans "rapists and murderers", Black people "The Blacks" and thinks we should look at closing our borders to Muslims until we "figure out what's going on", well, you support that person and their views.
What else is someone supposed to think?
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
diablos991 was right
I think it's counterproductive, but for a lot of Mexican Americans it's a real revolt against the kind of white supremacy Trump is reinforcing
Crash Station
Member
Oh absolutely, and I hope no one took my post as some kind of "yeah, post-racial America!" thing or something. There are issues, and Trump's rise has shown there are still a disappointingly large number of hateful lunatics in this country.
But despite that all, I still won't get behind the acceptance of assaulting people rallying provided said rallies are words only.
I wish I had a solution to this shit, but I don't believe removing liberties is that. Maybe I'll be proven wrong at some point, but goddamn is the whole thing a shitshow.
I can't and won't support Clinton, Bernie, or Cruz and I'd rather not see Trump get it. I'm voting Libertarian, but let's be real. I truly wish Black Phillip would run. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. Unlike the other shitheads running, I know what I'd be getting in Phillip. I'd love to live deliciously and some butter and new clothes would be awesome.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Nope.
The victim was not kept from life saving aid. They were diverted to another hospital.
I was very clear with what I said.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
So it's ok for people with critical injuries to be diverted to less equipped hospitals which adds time and increases the risk of death or permanent injury.
So long as nobody actually dies then it's all fun and games right?
Get a grip dude.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Right, believably is one of the keys. He's campaigning on an empty suit strategy. The question is, for all the non-commitals, are his true thoughts actually more liberal than what he's been saying, or are they more conservative? It's an interesting game he's trying to play here.
As for whether or not he cares if you have a job or not - I assume a big part of Trump wanting to run is so that he can stroke his own overly inflated ego and masturbate to the media coverage of himself. That makes me inclined to believe that he'll actually try his best to do what he thinks is right (which may or may not be the correct course of action, but at least he'll think it is), since a USA that goes in the shitter under his watch is not a good look for his brand.
Yup. Just pointing out the different points of view. Like I said, the devil's in the details.
For real, his stances and views are well known at this point. The motherfucker got endorsed by David Duke and rolled with it.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Man, this is a hell of a gamble. Can't the point be made without playing with people's lives like this? The fact that you're treating this whole thing like a box office prediction "quote me" bet is... well, it's a foreign mindset compared to what I'm used to.
Chie Satonaka
Member
For what it's worth, I get where you're coming from.
I'm not in favor of violent protest or rioting, but I understand why it happens and I'm not going to act all huffy and indignant on a message board about the outcome while not being upset about the problem.
The hypocrisy is what burns me about it. If people were as mad about the general state of inequality and racism which is woven into the framework of this country as they were about a car being torched or a CVS being burnt down, we would have never gotten to this point.
Ultimately, there is no solution until the majority population cares enough to uproot the american status quo. As people become more aware, there's going to be more unrest. Sitting down and being peaceful and quiet in the corner isn't going to garner any major change, and history has proven that.
ryutaro's mama
Member
So long as nobody actually dies then it's all fun and games right?
Nope, I simply said:
Yeah, it sucks they had to divert but the life wasn't lost....so it's still a...hypothetical!
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
So is it or is it not a good idea to block critical infrastructure leading to a hospital in regards to these protests?
Wow, so the person can be in serious pain in the need of medical attention (not life threatening) and you feel it is okay for an innocent to be in a painful state for longer because of some protest?
You really need an adjustment.
ryutaro's mama
Member
The goal of protesting isn't to stop someone from getting live saving care but at what point do we look at the reason people are protesting (in the article's case it was BLM, where very real, non-hypothetical people are dying) vs. defending the loads of hypothetical deaths their protesting might cause?
kame-sennin
Member
It was sarcasm. My bad.
Calamari41
41 > 38
It's not just weighing pure deaths that have already happened. Your mind is in a completely different universe than mine, so I'd actually rather not go into this with you. I sincerely hope you don't have to "eat crow" and lose an avatar bet on this topic in the future.
Suffice it to say I don't think there is any good reason to block access to a hospital. You disagree, that's fine.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
So protest unjust deaths by increasing the likelihood of more unjust deaths. Got it.
Crash Station
Member
I agree, it's sad that minor (comparatively) inconveniences are what get us talking about the rights of fellow humans being trampled on rather than, you know, the whole injustice in the first place.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Hypothetically, yes.
Audioboxer
Member
Dude that is a pretty awful way to look at it. It's not even always about life or death, a few minutes more can mean the difference between something being worse/permanent or being fully curable.
People need to take their heads away from a political lens in favour of their party and just accept if it was your loved one unable to get into a hospital, and even if they didn't die you'd still be absolutely livid at the protesters for the added stress and uncertainty.
Chie Satonaka
Member
So now, we're not only arguing hypothetical people, we're arguing additional hypothetical time in hypothetical pain for hypothetical people.
There are any number of scenarios that could result in someone being in pain for longer outside of protest, all of which could have happened regardless of there being a protest that caused a critical health person to be diverted or not.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I choose not to live with "what if" scenarios in order to ignore other issues.
Bingo.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Calamari41
41 > 38
So apparently this whole exercise has been a case of someone doing zero research, making a bold as all hell statement on the topic, and hoping nobody calls his bluff?
I'm guessing this doesn't count, though.
Couldn't technically every single road in any city be being blocked prevent someone, anyone from getting to a hospital?
Audioboxer
Member
Well just be humane enough to think about the families it did happen to.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Obviously I'm talking about a case like last night where the hospital near my house was only accessible from one direction, with diversions around to get there via PCH adding up to a half hour to the trip. This protest was blocking roads and attacking cars pretty much on the border of the campus to the north.
That area of Newport and Costa Mesa isn't really a grid of streets. Blocking just a couple of intersections, especially in the evening, can basically force you to drive for a long time to get around.
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