I always forget Lyn didn't have the Sol Katti animation in Japan. (Also, I checked, and Sacred Stones also uses hell in dialogue, but it's in a support and not any main chapter text)
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Western Localisation Of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Features Costume And Age Changes
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I always forget Lyn didn't have the Sol Katti animation in Japan. (Also, I checked, and Sacred Stones also uses hell in dialogue, but it's in a support and not any main chapter text)
When the localization team make so many minuscule changes on top of changing things they don't believe to be acceptable when in fact they are...leads me to believe that they are being spiteful.
-"Too much cleavage? lets change that"
-"Bikini or swimwear? That's too hot for these teenagers who are old enough to purchase this game"
-"potential upskirt shot? Must add spats or obscuring shadow!"
-Onsen Scene? watching people bathe is inappropriate, someone could easily misinterpret this as something lewd."
This game is rate T for Teen so things like "suggestive themes" are appropriate for this rating. NONE of the above things dip into M rated territory so why change them?
But for the sake of humility, the majority of the people who are buying this game are either fans of JRPG's which also have the same suggestive themes or people who are generally old enough to be comfortable with this level of sexualized content(which wasn't much).
So Yes...Really I think it's spiteful. Don't agree, cool~ You do you.
MrSaturn99
Member
That's not spiteful. "Spiteful" would suggest that Treehouse/Atlus are making these changes for the purpose of malicious intent against their consumers, which is far more ridiculous than any of the questionable changes made to the game itself.
You could apply any number of legitimate adjectives to describe the localization edits, but demonizing terms only weaken your cause.
thepenguin55
Member
The only thing that's a bummer about not getting the hot spring dlc is missing out on whatever Persona-like social interaction that (I assume) goes with it. Other than that, I'm all for these changes. When all it takes are some minor changes to a games sexual content to make a game into a something that everyone can enjoy I'm all for it. Better yet, anyone who wants to experience the game unaltered can do so by importing the game and boning up on their Japanese! Then you can experience the game in its original Japanese as it was originally intended by the developers, right? Everybody wins!
Don't forget to import a Wii U while you are at it.
Except that couldn't be further from the truth. This is a super-niche JRPG with no dub, people with only a passing interest in the genre aren't going to want to touch this game, edits or no edits. Also, it's not possible to import the game because the Wii U is region-locked, unless you want to buy a Japanese Wii U and end up spending $300 or so just for this one game.
Wowfunhappy
Member
So my question is, if the Wii U wasn't region locked, would people still have a problem with these types of localization changes?
On one hand, it feels much more "fair" to me, since it allows the company to make whatever changes they think are appropriate for a region, and people still have the option of buying whatever version they want.
On the other hand... it's not like the Japanese version would suddenly gain English subtitles.
I'm just curious. I like (most of) the changes Nintendo's making, so I have no personal stake in this.
Eolz
Member
It wouldn't be as bad for sure, but that's another problem as you said.
Doesn't really replace a bad/questionable localization.
Thr localization team is going out of their way to change and edit the game, how else could it not be seen as they are being antagonistic towards the consumer of JRPG's. Atlus themselves know how much their consumers hate localization changes...But whatever, if you believe they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts then that's you.
I've tried to avoid spoilers and such so I can go into the game fresh, but the changes they've made really don't make any sense. Especially since they allow so much stuff to be released on their system. My game has quite a bit of swearing and the like (it's M rated) and they didn't have any problem with that. However, this...? I don't even understand. Spending all of this time making these "changes" just seems strange. Totally confusing.
No, it wouldn't change how I feel. All it means is that I would have imported 1 or 2 games, but I am not importing a Wii-U (or 3ds).
Astral Dog
Member
Nah there is no point, if this was already made and without dub or NX version, not much of a difference
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, and I have the same feelings towards changes that don't affect me one bit like when games get altered for the Japanese market, though no one ever talks about those. And I'd still say they're doing a bad job of localisation since lack of swimsuits isn't a trait inherent to any culture they are localising for.
I've had this bullshit before when I constantly had to import games from the UK or Austria all the time because German versions were censored. Please stop.
ThatChairMan
Member
Granted that I don't really know what the original context behind the swimsuit was in the first place, but if it's a central theme to the dungeon, wouldn't this completely change the scenario of it?
MrSaturn99
Member
Once again, that has nothing to do with ill intent on the part of the localization teams involved. What Nintendo's doing here is no different than any other localization changes that downplay sexuality and the like: it's all done for the sake of obtaining the rating they feel the game needs to succeed.
It's one thing if you feel these edits aren't necessary for this particular game (which, again, is a legitimate concern) or are inconsistent with what's slipped by in their other products, but if you sincerely feel they're deliberately attempting to drive away consumers then you're clearly taking this too personally.
cj_iwakura
Member
But what they're doing WILL drive away consumers. It's not conjecture, it's a fact. If they don't realize they're alienating the niche of a niche, they are at ostrich tier.
(And with Nintendo, that's always a possibility.)
Absolutely not. How many times do people have to post Persona 4: Dancing All Night or Senran Kagura pictures to show that many of these changes would not affect ratings in any meaningful way? Even the only explanation Nintendo themselves gave didn't say anything about ratings.
MrSaturn99
Member
And you could say that, but are they being antagonistic in making those change?
There's also the matter of brand identity and American cultural context to consider (see: face rubbing in FE: Fates).
Like I said, if you think they've gone too far in this particular instance when they didn't really need to, then by all means.
Correct
cj_iwakura
Member
Antagonistic, no. Impossibly stupid, yes.
XSEED and Idea Factory have made statements and stances on how they will do their best to have minimal localization changes to have consumers a product that's closest to the original game. Why is it when it comes to Nintendo people like you come out the wet works and try to defend their obviously stupid decisions to change a game which not made for children, but change it in a way to try and not offend as many people as possible.
I don't even Nintendo knows who they are marketing these games to anymore, like Sean said because, I don't like Nintendo believing they know whats better for me. I was interested in this game for what it is...that includes all the weird Japanese specific things about it. Nintendo needs to stop thinking they are everyone's parent and changing things that they see is offensive when they are "Most likely not" offending anyone. But Nintendo can't take that chance apparently so they go full retard with the localization changes.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
This release -- faithful to the original or not -- is so insignificant that it will have no impact on the "brand identity" of Nintendo who, let's not forget, had no concern financing and publishing Bayonetta 2, even asking for lewd costumes associated with their brands, and then put her into one of their biggest franchises. Those moves had the same effect keeping #FE intact would have had: Zilch.
I already addressed the first point:
And for the second point... "American cultural context"? Are you kidding me? Do you know what **TOKYO** Mirage Sessions #FE even is?
It's an utterly irrelevant point. People are getting this game to experience Japan, not to experience America or Japan as seen through the eyes of America.
Astral Dog
Member
And Devils Third, and Fatal Frame.and this.
narutomaki04
Banned
It's a shame that Nintendo is trying to do everything they can to make me lose interest in this game. I'll pick it up later at a discount
MrSaturn99
Member
Note how I was specifically referring to Fates in that point.
Also, do you think I'd be posting this thread if I didn't? Christ, people.
I'd point to what I've said for the third (fourth?) time already, but there was no way Bayonetta 2 was going to escape an M rating, so you may as well capitalize what you have there. Comparing similar examples in T-rated affairs like FE Fates/Xenoblade would be a more apt comparison of inconsistency.
In any case, the ridiculous hiveminding/demonizing brought by TheRook remind me why I shouldn't visit these threads. I'm out.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Smash was rated T. As this game would have been even without censorship.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Yeah, I do find these changes silly and self-defeating, epecially as Atlus recently brought the awesome Stella Glow over to the 3DS in the West without any changes. That game is rated T, has the hot springs content intact and one character looks like this..... (Not linked directly because NSFW.) http://imgur.com/MEf9hHA
What's especially galling is the recent Direct took great pride in saying we were getting the authentic Japanese experience.
What's especially galling is the recent Direct took great pride in saying we were getting the authentic Japanese experience.
dakkumauji
Member
there's no real brand identity for fire emblem in the west
it only had two successful games after basically being left for dead for 5 years and most promotion have been only been focusing on the last two games, basically ignoring everything that sold badly before it
people usually go on about how their precious series is dead thanks to anime, but the average consumer (which seems to be only people nintendo is really targeting) wouldn't know anything about how this series has had 13 games before hand
not to mention, there's has been no consistency in what's deemed acceptable or not in the franchise, it's been extremely scattershot in what nintendo wants and doesn't want in the game
KirbYuuYuu
Member
When I saw the image at first, I thought it was a bush of chest hairs
It feels like a surreal comedy routine at this point
NoA/NoE/Treehouse have a different view of themselves than ATLUS and even NoJ.
Those standards also change depending of the political climate and people in chargee so thats why you find "inconcistencies" in how they approach to different games.
Olengie
Member
Y u do this to me Nintendo.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
If they ever make a game they can make every woman not even have breasts, if that's what they want. Right now their role is helping bringing over an Atlus game.
To be completely honest, all of these changes have me considering cancelling my Special Edition pre-order. Some of them, such as the black flame/smoke covering certain areas of bosses, is so jarring. Even if I didn't know what it looked like in the Japanese release (which I do, thanks to the comparison video posted earlier), I'd still know something wasn't right. And the one change where they rotated the girl sleeping/unconscious so she's upright instead of lying down. How does that change things any?
I'm just getting really...really tired of Nintendo and then censoring/removing content when it's absolutely not necessary. I just know that they're going to censor Dragon Quest VIII (and Jessica's outfits, not to mention the "Puff Puff") to make it more "suitable for audiences". Even though that game will be receiving a T-rating regardless.
Every single game that goes through Nintendo, I fear for the edits. I'd love to say that my worries were unfounded, but after Fatal Frame V, Bravely Second, Fire Emblem Fates, and now this...nothing surprises me anymore. It doesn't lessen the disappointment any, however.
I'm just getting really...really tired of Nintendo and then censoring/removing content when it's absolutely not necessary. I just know that they're going to censor Dragon Quest VIII (and Jessica's outfits, not to mention the "Puff Puff") to make it more "suitable for audiences". Even though that game will be receiving a T-rating regardless.
Every single game that goes through Nintendo, I fear for the edits. I'd love to say that my worries were unfounded, but after Fatal Frame V, Bravely Second, Fire Emblem Fates, and now this...nothing surprises me anymore. It doesn't lessen the disappointment any, however.
Bumbletron
Member
I am not getting this game to experience Japan, and I am incredibly confused as to why anyone would get it for such a reason. If it was something like Yakuza there may be room for such an argument, but I cannot see it in this case.
Olengie
Member
Nintendo is the person who cocksblock you
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I getcha. If the price on Amazon.de remains 70€ (for the standard edition!) I'll only get it used/discounted too since I'm not going to pay extra for shoddy localisation.
Other than the one plot change of some creepy photographer apparently, what in the game would be "shocking" for a western audience?
I should have specified in that it strictly relates to anyone who would experience some form of culture shock regarding Japan. I'm not necessarily getting #FE to experience Japan, but I'm certainly not someone who's prone to being turned off or offended by what the game might have that makes sense "in a Japanese context." I assume you are not, either? The point is that anyone who would be getting this game isn't the type to be offended by the stuff they're changing. If they are, I'm kind of at a loss as to why they are even interested in a JRPG revolving around the Japanese entertainment industry and idols, taking place in Tokyo, in the first place.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Until it actually happens, it's conjecture. And making a few changes here and there didn't seem to have hurt Fire Emblem's Western sales any.
It's not like there's an abundance of turn-based JRPGs that aren't low budget portable fare coming out these days. This year, it's pretty much Persona 5 & this. Maybe Trails of Cold Steel 2 although that looks noticeably lower budget than the other 2. People like to talk big, but when the fans are desperate for new games in the genre, I don't foresee many of them refusing to play one of the few new games just because they made it slightly more modest.
Bumbletron
Member
Fair enough. I feel the same way. I can see a lot of where you're coming from with that.
Honestly, with as bad as it performed in Japan, it seems a lot like a business decision. It isn't about not offending people, but trying to widen the demographic by any bit they can. That's the only explanation I can really think up at this point. They seem to be trying to find any way to increase sales they can. If their options for that are try to make it more likely to be picked up by kids/parents or doubling down on the niche, I can see why they'd rather attempt the former.
Most of those on the niche, as you said, are likely to get it anyways, because they aren't bothered by the project's material to begin with. So why not try to expand to some other audience? They have likely chalked this whole project up as a loss at this point, so any minor victory in that way would help.
The game already bombed in Japan. Do you really expect it to perform better in the West?
Big games can shrug off any really small controversies because of localization changes because the people complaining don't really matter in terms of the vast majority buying the game, but what the discussion keeps coming to is the "for #FE" specification, which is an important one. This game isn't going to do even 15% of what Fire Emblem Fates did.
Well, I guess that's the point of contention. My stance is that, in this specific case, they're losing more than they are gaining with these changes. Obviously I'm not behind the scenes and they'd have more data than I do by far, but I simply do not believe this game can have that general audience appeal in any way. They knew it themselves when they decided not to give it an English dub. In this case, they're basically alienating the core of the people this game is aimed towards. Usually the "I'm going to pass on this" phrase for games that have these changes by people on forums and on Twitter doesn't mean much, but I think it is different in this case.
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