X-Men Apocalypse Review Thread

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kame-sennin said:
perfection.gif

In regards to the bold, the X-men are the most cohesive, coordinated team in comics. They're one of the only superhero teams that live and train together, and they do the latter habitually. X-men movies should have the most amazing teamwork-centered action sequences, but we've never seen it. Instead, the Avengers films regularly have much better team battles even though the characters are group of people who kind of hate each other and only randomly get together during emergencies.
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Never thought about this but it's really true isn't it. Live/Train/Work together. Man they should be the King of the combo combat stuff out of all of the superhero films.
 
guek said:
I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I don't think Singer's X-men movies are completely bereft of what's core to the comics but there are definitely areas where they are sorely lacking - not as films but as an adaptation. Singer gets a lot of stuff right though. His casting is usually pretty good, he incorporates franchise staples like Cerebro and the school very well, everyone's powers work as they should more or less, he keeps the central conflict on point, and he understands Xavier and Magneto. That last point is probably his greatest strength in terms of adapting the source material.

Where he falls short though are some of the more intimate aspects of the X-men. While all the pieces are there, most of the relationships are a superficial facsimile at best, especially in his first two movies. That's because the first two movies use Logan as the POV character and primary protagonist without ever really establishing his role among the X-men. He's still an outsider in X1 and X2, a loner who plays by his own rules. What Singer fails to establish is a sense of family and belonging the X-men are meant to represent. Logan never really becomes part of that family in either of the first X-men movies. This would be fine if Logan weren't the center point to both those films but unfortunately that's how they're constructed. The result is this constant outside looking in perspective which makes the sense of teamwork and unity that's core to the franchise notably absent. There was nothing inherently wrong with making Logan the central protagonist but he never really makes him an X-man. Logan doesn't live at the mansion, he doesn't train with the X-men, and he fails to develop strong believable bonds with the other characters.

When you look at it that way, it's easy to see why so many of the relationships feel off. Logan continually creeps on Jean but why? He has like three conversations with her in X1 before leaving and about the same in X2 before she dies. And it's not like they develop any of their relationship off screen, we literally see everything that ever happens between them because the movies follow Logan so closely. So where does this deep seeded love for Jean come from? This problem extends to his relationship with Cyclops and Storm as well. He's supposed to be rivals with Cyclops but they should also develop a mutual respect between one another and a bond over their love of Jean. That never happens and instead they never go beyond merely hating each other. Logan and Storm's relationship is even worse considering it's basically nonexistent despite their history of being incredibly close in the comics.

So Logan is the center of these movies and yet his relationships with everyone are shallow at best. Everything about them is told to the viewer instead of shown or developed on screen. And with such a strong emphasis on Logan the outsider, Singer spends most of his energy making sure Logan looks badass instead of developing any kind of group dynamic either on or off the battlefield. So Storm, Cyclops, and Jean all get their moments to show off their powers but never as a coordinated team because that doesn't work when Logan fights alone all the time. Instead what you mostly get from them are these brief snippets of special effects in lieu of compelling action sequences. The vast majority of the standout action in X1 and X2 is centered around Logan fighting by his lonesome.

I want to reiterate here that most of this doesn't make for a bad movie if you're willing to focus solely on Logan like Singer wants you to. But if you care at all about doing the other characters justice, you're sore out of luck. To make matters worse, Singer also liked to throw in popular characters as glorified cameos or just shells of their actual comicbook counterparts. Seeing Colossus in X2 for something like five seconds was such a cocktease. Kitty Pryde is in X1 sorta kinda not really. Lady Deathstrike is a major villain in X2 but shares no similarities with her comicbook character apart from her claws. That just stings because the movies can't even get the core relationships right but still flaunts these other beloved characters in front of you. The major exception is Xavier and Magneto whose relationship is pretty damn good. I thought Singer nailed their dynamic in all his films.

I hope that helped illustrate how these movies feel a little hollow. Again, not necessarily as films but definitely as X-men movies. I should also point out that a lot of these problems were much improved in DoFP - mostly because of the decreased focus on Logan and the use of Xavier and Magneto to drive the story forward.
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Really good post.

I really liked First Class and DoFP but I will never stop wanting X-men to go back to Marvel. And all people saying they wouldn't fit, that's nonsense, see how easy it was to adapt Spidey in just 5-10 minutes of screen time.
 
Is the mall scene the part where they are at the record store and pick up a dazzler record?

Werent they just advertising it a week ago with a promo pic??
 
I don't get the praise for DOFP or any of Synger's X-Men movies, really. I understand X2 was groundbreaking in the comic movie world because there was nothing like it at the time, but after Marvel came into the fray those movies just seem... bad. DOFP is lacking focus and a villain and the Mystique fanboyism in these movies is just cringe.

First Class was very good, but that's expected of a Vaughn movie.
 
Nudull said:
So, X-Men Homecoming or X-Men Days of Future Retcon 2?
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I want X-men: Halloween/Thanksgiving.
Imagine if a group of young X-men had a night out, and it was the first time they could blend in with the other people around them and showcase their oddities under the guise of Halloween trickery.
Or X-men: Superbowl.
An annual international Mutant tournament is looming. The Xavier kids have to prepare themselves, because they will have never faced a threat this competitive!

I feel like Singer had the chance to make the X-men universe on par with the avengers, but yet he continuous to make by the numbers hollywood movies instead of just plain X-men movies focused on fleshing out an X-men universe.
 
Trailer looked like shit, so I am not surprised.
Will wait for the Blu-Ray maybe.
But I like that the industry helps in saving money on superhero movies.
 
What I really don't get is that it's the same universe, same director, same actors, same studio, and there seems to be a huge difference between DoFP and this.

Like, how is it possible that you can do a fantastic movie and with basically everything being the same, the follow up sucks ass?
 
EatinOlives said:
What I really don't get is that it's the same universe, same director, same actors, same studio, and there seems to be a huge difference between DoFP and this.

Like, how is it possible that you can do a fantastic movie and with basically everything being the same, the follow up sucks ass?
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From Wikipedia, it says Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman weren't involved in the story.
 
GAMEPROFF said:
Trailer looked like shit, so I am not surprised.
Will wait for the Blu-Ray maybe.
But I like that the industry helps in saving money on superhero movies.
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Honestly I am a bit surprised. None of the more recent x movies looked good in trailers or in the run up but usually ended up being decent movies. Remember how awful and dorky Quicksilver looked in the run up to dofp and then in the movie he was great.

Having an x movie look bad in the run up is nothing new, having an x movie that looks bad in the run up and then actually being bad is.
 
Not surprised. The trailers aren't great.

I'm getting tired of an enemy that can destroy the world or some shit, when we all already know it wither won't happen, or there is so much destruction, that you don't care. It needs to be taken down a few notches. It needs to be personal. Like Bacons character in FC.
 
EatinOlives said:
What I really don't get is that it's the same universe, same director, same actors, same studio, and there seems to be a huge difference between DoFP and this.

Like, how is it possible that you can do a fantastic movie and with basically everything being the same, the follow up sucks ass?
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Simon Kinberg. IIRC the original planning was to have X2 scriptwriters do Apocalypse, but because DOFP was such a critical success they brought Kinberg back and put X2 team on the backseat.
DOFP was a fluke for him apparently.
 
Kain said:
I don't get the praise for DOFP or any of Synger's X-Men movies, really. I understand X2 was groundbreaking in the comic movie world because there was nothing like it at the time, but after Marvel came into the fray those movies just seem... bad. DOFP is lacking focus and a villain and the Mystique fanboyism in these movies is just cringe.

First Class was very good, but that's expected of a Vaughn movie.
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Nope. First Class was just about average at best and X2 is still >> any Marvel output since it's release except for spiderman 2
 
kurahador said:
Simon Kinberg. IIRC the original planning was to have X2 scriptwriters do Apocalypse, but because DOFP was such a critical success they brought Kinberg back and put X2 team on the backseat.
DOFP was a fluke for him apparently.
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we could've had the X2 folks?

>:(
 
browsed a few pages saw the usual suspects hating and smiled.

Still hyped for this film and can't wait, looking forward to seeing Apocalypse wreck house

Next friday can't come soon enough
 
Discotheque said:
Nope. First Class was just about average at best and X2 is still >> any Marvel output since it's release except for spiderman 2
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I have to disagree, I watched X2 a couple of years ago and it just felt extremely corny. I do like the part where they are running away with a small group of people led by Wolvie.

Spidey 2 is ace, though.
 
Kain said:
I have to disagree, I watched X2 a couple of years ago and it just felt extremely corny. I do like the part where they are running away with a small group of people led by Wolvie.

Spidey 2 is ace, though.
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that's fair. i just found the plot and characters (magneto and stryker are such great villains) and the integration of the themes (homophobia, racism etc.) so much more refreshing than the stuff we're getting now. even civil war, which i enjoyed quite a bit, just plods along at times until the action scenes.

and spiderman 2 is the perfect marvel movie imo, or just superhero movie in general. damn shame about apocalypse being so divisive (literally a 50 on metacritic right now haha). i loved singer's track record with the franchise up to this point. still curious and checking it out OW but my expectations are a bit lowered at the moment.
 
I've been re-watching the movies ready for Apocalypse and X2 is still amazing and far from corny.

Great Tier
X2
DOFP

Good Tier
FC
The Wolverine
X1

Ass Tier
X3
Origins
 
Not surprised. Xmen are my favorite superhero franchise, but the problem with adapting them to the big screen (I have the same problem with the massively overrated and pretty mediocre Avengers, haven't seen Civil War yet though), is that at some point it becomes kind of like the Power Rangers where too many superheroes square off against each other and becomes a lot of tacky pew pew CGI and no character development.
X2 and First class were the only films to somewhat circumvent this by focusing on Wolverine and Xavier/Magneto.

Apocalypse had all the writing on the wall of going the X3 route where it becomes a mess of superheroes just going pew pew.

At the same time the metaphor for accepting diversity has run its course and the show runners seem unable to add in other interesting discussions.
 
spekkeh said:
Not surprised. Xmen are my favorite superhero franchise, but the problem with adapting them to the big screen (I have the same problem with the massively overrated and pretty mediocre Avengers, haven't seen Civil War yet though), is that at some point it becomes kind of like the Power Rangers where too many superheroes square off against each other and becomes a lot of tacky pew pew CGI and no character development.
X2 and First class were the only films to somewhat circumvent this by focusing on Wolverine and Xavier/Magneto.
.
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yeah i think x2 and dofp did the ensemble the usual and (imo) best way by focusing on a set few characters (and giving the rest a few scenes), though some people around here clearly do not like that approach haha.

x2 was the best ensemble flick imo. and dofp was pretty damn good too.

feared this movie would go the more bombastic avengers route and it seems singer fucked up in the transition.
 
duckroll said:
Wow the entire mall scene is gone and Psylocke has like two lines in the movie? Fucking lol.
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I'm surprised by this.

I shouldn't be, but I am.

Fox's ability to pull a 'bait and switch' on me year after year, project after project is actually remarkable.
 
What is the point of Apocalypse?

X1 was the start, X2 was the middle part of the trilogy and X3 was the last installment.

Origins was to capitalize on Wolverine. The Wolverine was to make a proper Wolvie movie.

First Class set out to bring back X-Men to the big screen but with a new cast. DoFP was to connect the two sets of casts and to retcon X3.

Which leaves us at Apocalypse... what's the hook? Just another X-Men movie? End of the new trilogy? I don't get it. I expect to be entertained by it but it seems like the least inspired X-Men movie since X3.
 
Froli said:
Anyone posted this yet? Non spoiler review
Chris Stuckmann X-Men: Apocalypse - Movie Review

He rated it
A-
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Interesting, the good out weighs the bad for Stuckmann.

Sucks that Singer continues to ignore one or at least a key thematic pillar of the X men univerese. When it comes to the school aspect. Hopefully with a great support and a serviceable budget on TV/Netflix/Hulu could tackle this, plus have someone who understands and knows how to portray the hectic everyday at the mansion and explore it's importance to the story other then, teams fighting bad guys and finding out mutants.

Which is another big part obviously. Sometime in the future i want Marvel to have their X men Universe to play with. Really sucks that they didn't contract that deal with a caveat.
 
At this point, after seeing Spider-man in Civil War. I just want all of Marvel's characters to come back to Marvel.
 
I'm really curious what their plans for this series are. From what we know there are at least 4-5 X-Men movies in development:

Wolverine 3 is apparently set in the future (whatever that means) so it probably won't have any bearing on the mainline X-Men movies. Also the last appearance of Jackman as Logan. There were rumours that he's gonna be replaced by X-23. I guess she might take his position in the mainline movies.

Deadpool 2 will probably tie in more strongly into the larger X-Men universe. The post-credit scene referred to Cable but who really knows how serious they were. Then again, they've been talking about an X-Force movie for a while and with the critical and financial success of Deadpool that seems more likely than ever. I assume this will stay mostly confined to its own corner of the X-Men universe though.

Judging by Bobby's comments on Apocalypse and what Kinberg has said about the next X-Men movie being set in the 90's, I strongly assume that the Gambit movie (if it still exists) will be set during the same time period. If they're really going X-Men '92, that is.

New Mutants also sounds more separate. I can see this continuing from the retconned DOFP ending.
 
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