So, Polygon 'playing' Doom...

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You could just watch the video and see that the moment in the gif isn't just a one of, or hear that there's no one talking over the video.

Also you could read the thread and see that 22 pages aren't just dedicated to complaining about the lack of skill but that a meta discussion formed about if it matters that a reviewer has the basics of playing a game down or not,

Which is all irrelevant since the video in question is not a review or even featuring the reviewer
 
Love it how he doesn't even bother to watch the video, comes in here to shit on people talking about it, then proceeds to tell other people he has a right to his opinion.

Amazing.

If it's not a formal review what argument do you have against the video being posted?

If it was the actual review and he was staying the controls sucked and gave it a poor score I'd understand your Point
 
Fucking hell people, who cares? Only in the gaming community will we have a 22+ page thread complaining about a guy's playskill based on a single gif.

I guarantee you that I could go through any of your gameplay footage and find less than stellar gameplay.

I have several, super simple explanations for this;

  • Playing a game and talking at the same time is harder than it looks
  • It's just one enemy, who among us hasn't just lazilly tried to take out the last enemy in a room?
  • it surprised him
  • up close enemies are really annoying to deal with in FPS games
  • who gives a shit?

You wouldn't find me playing that bad with a dual analog joystick after 1999. I've been playing video games for over 25 years spanning all different kinds of computers and consoles using various joysticks, keyboards and mice. I think I know when I see somebody new to using a controller. Once while I was waiting to respawn in MW, I noticed a team member's mouse movements and figured they were using a laptop track pad. I asked them and they said they were and were shocked I could tell. When you've been playing games this long you notice certain things because you've seen it all already.

  • I hear nobody talking during that Polygon game play video
  • They play like that during the whole 30 minutes
  • no it didn't
  • no they're not
  • you do apparently.

The game play video is just a recording and doesn't seem to be a review so I could give them a break there. But if it turned out the reviewer was playing like that then I wouldn't take the review seriously. It's like going to a car dealership and the salesman trying to sell you a car when they've never even driven before. You're telling me that doesn't matter?
 
Where does the insecurity of the game being shown negatively come from? Why does that matter to you? It's one person's experience and there is always going to be some bias. It also doesn't mean they still can't have a positive experience.
The point is this. What if we never saw that video. And what if that person reviewed the game and said something negative about the controls. This is a person who works for that site so theoretically at some point may have written a review. Most of us don't get to see the reviewer playing the game so we can only go by their words and if they are half as terrible as this guy then it puts a lot of what they say in general in doubt.
 
Love it how he doesn't even bother to watch the video, comes in here to shit on people talking about it, then proceeds to tell other people he has a right to his opinion.

Amazing.

If you'd like to talk with me, quote me directly please. I misunderstood someone talking earlier about talking and playing at the same time, so sue me.

My main points still remain. I could find embarrassing footage of anyone's "gaming street cred". Even going through the footage itself, it looks like it's on easy mode on a console, something meant to just show the first 30 minutes of footage, nobody puts in 100% effort in that. Console FPS games are known to have issues with aiming, especially when the enemy is up in your face.

You wouldn't find me playing that bad with a dual analog joystick after 1999. I've been playing video games for over 25 years spanning all different kinds of computers and consoles using various joysticks, keyboards and mice. I think I know when I see somebody new to using a controller. Once while I was waiting to respawn in MW, I noticed a team member's mouse movements and figured they were using a laptop track pad. I asked them and they said they were and were shocked I could tell. When you've been playing games this long you notice certain things because you've seen it all already.

I've played games for nearly 20 years myself, I can't do shit like that. If you're using yourself as a barometer of skillful play, then don't put me on your CoD team (or in general, I'm not the best as FPSs...)

The game play video is just a recording and doesn't seem to be a review so I could give them a break there. But if it turned out the reviewer was playing like that then I wouldn't take the review seriously. It's like going to a car dealership and the salesman trying to sell you a car when they've never even driven before. You're telling me that doesn't matter?

That's kind of the thing though. "If the guy played like that," is some pretty heavy speculation considering the noted difference of playing a game to collect footage and playing a game for reviewing.
 
I don't see why this player would be unable to give his impressions on the graphics, performance, story, sound ect.... I don't see why his entire experience should be discounted because like the food critic he's still tasting and eating it.
Because video games are not a passive experience. You are actively participating. I swear I think some of you guys just watch friends play and twitch videos. How else could you have these opinions?
 
who cares... they are showing the game. Boy I hate when people complain on this...

No, they aren't showing the game at that point. I can't watch that video without it sticking to me how horribly they're playing it. It would be like going to watch a Basketball game and no one on the court knows how to dribble, you can't just watch the game at that point, as there is no game to watch.
 
If it's not a formal review what argument do you have against the video being posted?

If it was the actual review and he was staying the controls sucked and gave it a poor score I'd understand your Point
I already addressed why it's a problem. Your rebuttal was some petty semantic argument about how it wasnt labeled a "Preview" even though the only reason the video would even be useful is for the same reasons a preview exists.

Then you never came back and waited like nine pages to drudge up the same question again even though you totally bailed out when someone pointed out the flaw in your logic the first time you asked it.

For anyone wondering why a thread like this is 20 some pages, it's because of people like this guy. They ask questions, get answers they don't have rebuttals to, leave, and then come back and ask the same inane questions to a whole new group of people so the cycle can start over again.
 
If you'd like to talk with me, quote me directly please. I misunderstood someone talking earlier about talking and playing at the same time, so sue me.

My main points still remain. I could find embarrassing footage of anyone's "gaming street cred". Even going through the footage itself, it looks like it's on easy mode on a console, something meant to just show the first 30 minutes of footage, nobody puts in 100% effort in that. Console FPS games are known to have issues with aiming, especially when the enemy is up in your face.

Console FPS games are only known to have issues if you suck at them, people have been playing with dual analogue sticks for years, it's not some new foreign control scheme.

Sounding more and more like you just suck at games as well and are taking the criticism leveled at this shit player to heart.

You've not even acknowledged that you thought everyone was talking about a gif when it's a full 30 minute video of terrible gameplay.
 
Console FPS games are only known to have issues if you suck at them, people have been playing with dual analogue sticks for years, it's not some new foreign control scheme.

Sounding more and more like you just suck at games as well and are taking the criticism leveled at this shit player to heart.

I'm finding a lot of the criticism leveled at the guy here to be some pretty heavy elitism. I could find footage of you flailing the control. And saying that console FPSs have issue with aiming, especially with up close enemies, should not be a controversial statement. 20+ years hasn't solved that.

And if you want to get into my skill level, sure, I'm not the best at FPSs. I probably play a lot like that. Does that mean I wouldn't be able to enjoy the game or review it fairly? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy it and be able to describe the game fairly.

You've not even acknowledged that you thought everyone was talking about a gif when it's a full 30 minute video of terrible gameplay.

I have acknowledged that, it was a misunderstanding I had with an earlier post, and I have addressed it in full. Collecting basic, mundane footage on what looks to be easy mode on a console hardly shows a person's skill level.
 
The people defending this are crazy. Absolutely crazy. Nobody plays like this unless it's your first time with a FPS. You're just being contrarian. I understand wanting to defend someone that's getting dog piled, but you're not helping at all.
 
I'm finding a lot of the criticism leveled at the guy here to be some pretty heavy elitism. I could find footage of you flailing the control. And saying that console FPSs have issue with aiming, especially with up close enemies, should not be a controversial statement. 20+ years hasn't solved that.



I have acknowledged that, it was a misunderstanding I had with an earlier post, and I have addressed it in full. Collecting basic, mundane footage on what looks to be easy mode on a console hardly shows a person's skill level.
If it's on easy mode that only further shows how poor they are at playing the game.

It's 2016. Call of Duty 4 came out in 2007. Most people who play video games regularly have a basic handle on playing first person shooters with a gamepad. This is not 1999.

What I saw in the video is what it looks like when I give the controller to someone who had never played a first person game with two thumbsticks.
 
I'm finding a lot of the criticism leveled at the guy here to be some pretty heavy elitism. I could find footage of you flailing the control. And saying that console FPSs have issue with aiming, especially with up close enemies, should not be a controversial statement. 20+ years hasn't solved that.

And if you want to get into my skill level, sure, I'm not the best at FPSs. I probably play a lot like that. Does that mean I wouldn't be able to enjoy the game or review it fairly? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy it and be able to describe the game fairly.



I have acknowledged that, it was a misunderstanding I had with an earlier post, and I have addressed it in full. Collecting basic, mundane footage on what looks to be easy mode on a console hardly shows a person's skill level.

What is up with you popping into Polygon threads, anyways? You defended the Mario Kart graph and the "DOOM is too violent" article, correct?

I'm not knocking you or insulting you. Just curious. For all I know, I'm confusing you with someone else.
 
If it's on easy mode that only further shows how poor they are at playing the game.

It's 2016. Call of Duty 4 came out in 2007. Most people who play video games regularly have a basic handle on playing first person shooters with a gamepad. This is not 1999.

What I saw in the video is what it looks like when I give the controller to someone who had never played a first person game with two thumbsticks.

Then you have super high standards on basic gameplay footage. Would you put 100% effort on an easy mode footage collecting run? Like, I could understand the critique of this having low effort being put into it, if anything it looks like the guy's just moseying around and just going through the motions. Sorry everyone isn't a super elite gamer able to do pin-point accuracy on a console.

What is up with you popping into Polygon threads, anyways? You defended the Mario Kart graph and the "DOOM is too violent" article, correct?

I'm not knocking you or insulting you. Just curious. For all I know, I'm confusing you with someone else.

I think I remember that. I'll fully admit, part of it is that I find some of the critiques towards Polygon to be unfair or blown out of proportion. It also might be every since, ehem, "august" that my tolerance for what constitutes as "shitty journalism" or "bad reviewing" has been greatly increased. I'm kind of "live and let live". It's funny, sure, but I doubt it deserves 20+ pages of mockery and be the starting point of (some decent) discussion on reviewer skill.
 
I'm finding a lot of the criticism leveled at the guy here to be some pretty heavy elitism. I could find footage of you flailing the control. And saying that console FPSs have issue with aiming, especially with up close enemies, should not be a controversial statement. 20+ years hasn't solved that.
You seem incapable of recognizing just how bad this play is.

Imagine a website dedicated to reviewing pianos and someone couldn't even play with both hands at once.

That's literally how bad this is. Not knowing how to walk and aim at the same time is completely ridiculous. It's not even a matter of average vs high skill, but like even the way they walk around the level is bizarre, like a person who doesn't play games.

Would you put 100% effort on an easy mode footage collecting run?
It's not even about effort. This question is so out of touch.
 
I still think the hate towards someone being bad at a game is bit overblown but the biggest issue I have with the footage is that I have NO IDEA why he keeps using the pistol

It is super obvious that you are supposed to use the shotgun unless you run out of ammo. It's established in the first scene that the pistol is super weak and takes a while to kill enemies, whereas the shotgun can kill literally every enemy type you see in the first mission in one or two hits.

I think if he just used the shotgun the entire time he would've breezed through it like I did.
 
Then you have super high standards on basic gameplay footage. Would you put 100% effort on an easy mode footage collecting run? Like, I could understand the critique of this having low effort being put into it, if anything it looks like the guy's just moseying around and just going through the motions. Sorry everyone isn't a super elite gamer able to do pin-point accuracy on a console,
We have very different opinions of "elite gamer" and "able to use a controller".
 
The people defending this are crazy. Absolutely crazy. Nobody plays like this unless it's your first time with a FPS. You're just being contrarian. I understand wanting to defend someone that's getting dog piled, but you're not helping at all.

it's not the reviewer, so who cares
 
I still think the hate towards someone being bad at a game is bit overblown but the biggest issue I have with the footage is that I have NO IDEA why he keeps using the pistol

It is super obvious that you are supposed to use the shotgun unless you run out of ammo. It's established in the first scene that the pistol is super weak and takes a while to kill enemies, whereas the shotgun can kill literally every enemy type you see in the first mission in one or two hits.

I think if he just used the shotgun the entire time he would've breezed through it like I did.

Too good to use syndrome, bro, it plagues us all.
 
Oh man, I thought maybe people were over reacting a bit, but watching the full play through..my god. It's Doom and the player is trying to "snipe" enemies with a pistol from a distance. Just wow.
 
Loving the narrative that "everyone" has poor gameplay moments (like this) laying around. As if gaming literacy is not a thing that allows us to pick up and easily play a variety of experiences because we're constantly learning and internalizing the language of interactivity without even realizing it.

I'm hot garbage with a controller for FPS yet I could awkwardly circle-strafe the player in that video dizzy as it looks like it's the first time they've moved a joystick.
 
Then you have super high standards on basic gameplay footage. Would you put 100% effort on an easy mode footage collecting run? Like, I could understand the critique of this having low effort being put into it, if anything it looks like the guy's just moseying around and just going through the motions. Sorry everyone isn't a super elite gamer able to do pin-point accuracy on a console.



I think I remember that. I'll fully admit, part of it is that I find some of the critiques towards Polygon to be unfair or blown out of proportion. It also might be every since, ehem, "august" that my tolerance for what constitutes as "shitty journalism" or "bad reviewing" has been greatly increased. I'm kind of "live and let live". It's funny, sure, but I doubt it deserves 20+ pages of mockery and be the starting point of (some decent) discussion on reviewer skill.

Really, you would equate using both thumbsticks at the same time as 100% effort? Get off your high horse and stop defending the footage, it's awful and shouldn't have been published on official channels.
 
Too good to use syndrome, bro, it plagues us all.

Quick question - If you were running a well known videogame website that looks to you for videogame previews and reviews, would you think this video meets your standards? Would you go ahead and publish it knowing it's going to be viewed by thousands of viewers? Or would you maybe say "we can do better" and have someone else play?
 
Oh man, I thought maybe people were over reacting a bit, but watching the full play through..my god. It's Doom and the player is trying to "snipe" enemies with a pistol from a distance. Just wow.

To be fair, I ran out of ammo near the end (haven't quite beaten it yet) because enemies are bullet sponges. Thank god for the chainsaw.
 
Loving the narrative that "everyone" has poor gameplay moments (like this) laying around. As if gaming literacy is not a thing that allows us to pick up and easily play a variety of experiences because we're constantly learning and internalizing the language of interactivity without even realizing it.

I'm hot garbage with a controller for FPS yet I could awkwardly circle-strafe the player in that video dizzy as it looks like it's the first time they've moved a joystick.
Thank you for much better explaining what I've been trying to get across.
 
Maybe Polygon just recorded a Best Buy kiosk for a day and ripped the highlights.
I like this theory the best.
Loving the narrative that "everyone" has poor gameplay moments (like this) laying around. As if gaming literacy is not a thing that allows us to pick up and easily play a variety of experiences because we're constantly learning and internalizing the language of interactivity without even realizing it.

I'm hot garbage with a controller for FPS yet I could awkwardly circle-strafe the player in that video dizzy as it looks like it's the first time they've moved a joystick.
Preach.

Here's the thing. Even if I struggled to control a game at first, I'd probably improve over a few hours.

You know what I wouldn't do? Upload footage of me playing with the competency of a goldfish to the internet, especially as part of an official publication's stuff!
 
Loving the narrative that "everyone" has poor gameplay moments (like this) laying around. As if gaming literacy is not a thing that allows us to pick up and easily play a variety of experiences because we're constantly learning and internalizing the language of interactivity without even realizing it.

I'm hot garbage with a controller for FPS yet I could awkwardly circle-strafe the player in that video dizzy as it looks like it's the first time they've moved a joystick.

Great post.
 
Quick question - If you were running a well known videogame website that looks to you for videogame previews and reviews, would you think this video meets your standards? Would you go ahead and publish it knowing it's going to be viewed by thousands of viewers? Or would you maybe say "we can do better" and have someone else play?

I've said before that I don't find the video to be particularly great. That's separate from the criticism of the person's play skill. But then again, there's not much you can really do on a basic "show the first 30 minutes or so of the game" type of footage.

Question in general: Does Doom on consoles have aim-assist? Because that affects gameplay a lot more than people realize. Doesn't look like there is, or if there is it doesn't look too strong.
 
Boyyyy this topic is the near the upper crust of elitist gamer culture. I watched that video and honestly don't know if many of my friends would fare much better at the game, if at all? In my eyes, it's not Polygon's job to sell a particular audience on a game. If I'm a movie critic, and I've typically not understood (or been down on) Darren Aronofsky's work, that doesn't mean my opinion and understanding of his latest work is any less valid. Or, put another way, one doesn't need to be an art aficionado to know if they like a piece of art or have perfectly valid opinions on it.

I also see this from the perspective as a game developer. If I put a game in front of a random person (especially an unfinished one) there's a high chance something is just not going to read correctly or certain mechanics will not be as easy for them as they would with a seasoned game player. Maybe this board's members are particularly hostile because they love to see themselves as "the hardcore elite of the elite" and are pissed that a "hardcore game" is getting played by somebody not in their game playing class. In my opinion - get outta here with that nonsense. People should feel welcome to play, critique, and dissect anything about a game even if they have no experience. In fact, those feedback are sometimes the most revelatory of all.

There's been a lot of talk in development circles about how gross game culture has become in terms "core" players feeling like video games are theirs and that those without their skills, background, understanding, appreciation, etc. are unworthy and uninvited. This is almost the perfect example of that in action.
 
Boyyyy this topic is the near the upper crust of elitist gamer culture. I watched that video and honestly don't know if many of my friends would fare much better at the game, if at all? In my eyes, it's not Polygon's job to sell a particular audience on a game. If I'm a movie critic, and I've typically not understood (or been down on) Darren Aronofsky's work, that doesn't mean my opinion and understanding of his latest work is any less valid. Or, put another way, one doesn't need to be an art aficionado to know if they like a piece of art or have perfectly valid opinions on it.

I also see this from the perspective as a game developer. If I put a game in front of a random person (especially an unfinished one) there's a high chance something is just not going to read correctly or certain mechanics will not be as easy for them as they would with a seasoned game player. Maybe this board's members are particularly hostile because they love to see themselves as "the hardcore elite of the elite" and are pissed that a "hardcore game" is getting played by somebody not in their game playing class. In my opinion - get outta here with that nonsense. People should feel welcome to play, critique, and dissect anything about a game even if they have no experience. In fact, those feedback are sometimes the most revelatory of all.

There's been a lot of talk in development circles about how gross game culture has become in terms "core" players feeling like video games are theirs and that those without their skills, background, understanding, appreciation, etc. are unworthy and uninvited. This is almost the perfect example of that in action.
I think you are over analyzing this. The gameplay footage is just straight up bad. I don't think that's really up for debate honestly.

My favorite gaming content on the internet are Giant Bomb videos. They are definitely not "elite pro gamers."
 
Simply put, for those of you just joining us, Polygon put someone who had not played FPS before on this preview on purpose.

The result is that the player is hilariously inept.

Some people think this was a bad idea, myself included, some people think the player should not be playing video games at all, because they have brought shame and dishonor onto their family (and polygon will never sell a game in Japan as a result or something like that), some don't see the problem because they don't actually care.

So, it's another case of "if you're not good at video games you shouldn't play video games" rabble rabble rabble casuals get out reeee.
 
I think you are over analyzing this. The gameplay footage is just straight up bad. I don't think that's really up for debate honestly.

My favorite gaming content on the internet are Giant Bomb videos. They are definitely not "elite pro gamers."

Even Jim Sterling has admitted to not being that great with a controller and he does just fine.
 
I think you are over analyzing this. The gameplay footage is just straight up bad. I don't think that's really up for debate honestly.

My favorite gaming content on the internet are Giant Bomb videos. They are definitely not "elite pro gamers."

Why is that not up for debate? What is bad about the footage? That they didn't have a high enough accuracy on their shots? Like, really, if you break it down you see just how elitist this view is. If you throw me into a genre I've never played before it would take me a while to learn how to play. That doesn't make my views or my footage of me playing said game bad.
 
Simply put, for those of you just joining us, Polygon put someone who had not played FPS before on this preview on purpose.

The result is that the player is hilariously inept.

Some people think this was a bad idea, myself included, some people think the player should not be playing video games at all, because they have brought shame and dishonor onto their family (and polygon will never sell a game in Japan as a result or something like that), some don't see the problem because they don't actually care.

So, it's another case of "if you're not good at video games you shouldn't play video games" rabble rabble rabble casuals get out reeee.
It's their job to provide preview footage of a game. They did a bad job at that.

I give zero fucks how good someone is at a game on their own time or on some random Twitch stream.
 
Why is that not up for debate? What is bad about the footage? That they didn't have a high enough accuracy on their shots? Like, really, if you break it down you see just how elitist this view is. If you throw me into a genre I've never played before it would take me a while to learn how to play. That doesn't make my views or my footage of me playing said game bad.

High enough accuracy? The player is moving each stick separately. You think a professional gaming website shouldn't have tried just a little harder to get better footage instead of trying to be the first to push out gameplay?
 
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