Burnout and Gran Turismo have the same basic controls, doesn't mean one will transfer to the other easily. Doom's speed and (from what I can tell) lack of aim-assist is very different from what a lot of shooters on consoles do. Looking through some of the footage again, I'm seeing a lot of issues of him accidentally walking past an enemy, pausing to make sure he can aim properly on the enemy, and the same issues that a bunch of FPS games have on consoles with enemies right on your face.
So, Polygon 'playing' Doom...
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Burnout and Gran Turismo have the same basic controls, doesn't mean one will transfer to the other easily. Doom's speed and (from what I can tell) lack of aim-assist is very different from what a lot of shooters on consoles do. Looking through some of the footage again, I'm seeing a lot of issues of him accidentally walking past an enemy, pausing to make sure he can aim properly on the enemy, and the same issues that a bunch of FPS games have on consoles with enemies right on your face.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The point that seemed to be offered was that a reasonable explanation for the performance displayed in the 30 minute video can be attributed to the differences between CoD and Doom, or the difference between aim assist and no aim assist. That is patently absurd. If I drive a sporty coupe when I'm used to a big sedan, I'll going to be like "oh this is a bit different" not flying around the road like I've had 2 bottles of vodka.
I'm seeing him alternate between using the aiming stick and using the walking stick because he doesn't know how to do both at the same time. That has nothing to do with pacing or sensitivity. It's like someone trying to learn how to ride a bike and they don't know how to turn yet. Yes, THAT awkward. No difference between games can explain it.
I'm still not sure, but does Doom have aim-assist (particularly for single player) on consoles? Because that really does make a huge difference.
Yup
Air Zombie Meat
Member
You haven't played it on console so you're pulling this out your ass. I have and it's no more difficult to control than any other console fps. Stop making excuses for a poor quality vid from a professional outlet.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Do you know what aim assist even is? Basically imagine a little circle around the cursor. If you aim at something and you're a bit off, it makes the bullet hit the thing. It isn't going to correct you from pointing 7 feet in the wrong direction because you're incomprehensibly flailing around like a fish.
i dont see how you can possibly defend this "preview."
- would it be appropriate for someone who has never played a racing game to preview the new Gran Turismo? just slamming into walls? no way...
- would it be appropriate to preview the new Street Fighter by just mashing the punch button over and over again?? no way...
- would it be appropriate for a complete strategy novice to preview the new Civilization? not a change...
complaining about this is not elitist at all...the person doing the preview should have at least the basic skills needed for the genre...and being able to properly move around is certainly a basic skill needed for an FPS
- would it be appropriate for someone who has never played a racing game to preview the new Gran Turismo? just slamming into walls? no way...
- would it be appropriate to preview the new Street Fighter by just mashing the punch button over and over again?? no way...
- would it be appropriate for a complete strategy novice to preview the new Civilization? not a change...
complaining about this is not elitist at all...the person doing the preview should have at least the basic skills needed for the genre...and being able to properly move around is certainly a basic skill needed for an FPS
Dude.
I don't think the Quantum Break example is a good one. You don't dismiss a review because a game "wasn't played as intended." It's possible someone doesn't like playing games that way, or the game doesn't do a good job encouraging that playstyle, or it evokes other games in a misleading way. Either way, you can't dismiss a reviewer's experience as misrepresentative simply because they didn't fall into the gameplay loop the designers had in mind. The coloring of perception is inevitable.
There's a significant difference between that (not clicking with a game) and struggling with basic FPS controls. Jeff's experience with Quantum Break still told me something meaningful about the game. Watching someone struggle to utilize both analog sticks on their controller doesn't tell me much about Doom.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Comparing DOOM and CoD to Burnout and Gran Turismo is hilariously hyperbolic. The difference between is not nearly as vast.
Burnout and GT are so different that they're in different sub catagories of the same genre. DOOM and CoD are still both FPS games with the same basic mentality behind both.
Like I said, you're really stretching for an argument here.
This doesn't even get into the fact that aim assist or pace is obviously not the issue with the person playing in the video. He literally cant control movement and sight at once. He doesn't even understand the basics of a FPS much less the difference between what a game with aim assist feels like to one that doesn't.
If you were to take your Burnout/GT example and applied it to this situation, it wouldnt be a video of someone swerving off the track because they're not used to the pacing of the game. It would be like someone hitting both the breaks and gas triggers at the same time and doing donuts around the track for a half hour.
Yes. I wouldnt expect someone to review sport cars who cant drive a stick shift.
He doesnt have to be a pro nascar driver, but damn...
The problem isn't that a novice is playing - its their complete incompetence at handling a game controller.
Someone who understands how video games work, like can move their left and right thumbs independently, but has not played FPS extensively would make for some interesting footage. This guy legitimately appears to have never controlled an on-screen avatar before recording this gameplay.
JasoNsider
Member
No, it is elitist to demand that all media published about a game on websites have a minimum arbitrary "competency level" that some group deemed worthy enough for them. And again, let's not pretend like this same board doesn't shout similar reactions at off-screen E3 plays when someone doesn't "drive well enough" in a demo or whatever. It's non-stop here.
And unless I'm missing something, this is merely gameplay footage of somebody playing the game; it's not an in-depth analysis or review. Even if it was, what does it matter? Some people in this thread have the audacity to say keep your newbie crap off of websites and relegated to a personal twitch channel. How is this not elitism or even classism?
SirMossyBloke
Member
That arbitrary competence level is simply "being able to use a controller". Is it really that hard to understand?
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Has Bethesda or ID made any comment on this?, I would think they'd be the ones with the problem because it doesn't do the best job showing off the game.
Don't play ignorant about the context surrounding the footage; its uploaded by a game review site whose audience will generally assume it represents the quality of the product. this isn't Little Jimmy uploading some game footage from his bedroom.
And again with the "elitist" nonsense. Games are innately interactive and, therefore, have some basic competency requirement built into them. That's part of the medium, like it or not.
I read Fellowship of the Ring and I couldn't figure out the mechanics of turning the first page - 4/10
People shouldn't need to understand how to open a book to get the most out of a books contents and it shouldn't impact their enjoyment. Bunch of elitist assholes in here.
Books should cater to everyone, even the illiterate.
potatohead
Member
It has aim assist on consoles and the same aim assist is on PC when you use a controller on PC.
It even has automatic configuration for controls for DS4 without Xinput wrapper.
SirMossyBloke
Member
If you can't open a book how can you read it?
Probably, I fully admit that. Bottom line I agree with JasoNsider, and I still fail to see how this gameplay footage warrants this much scrutiny or vitriol. It's 30 minutes of less than stellar basic gameplay footage, and as awkwardly as it seems the person is controlling looks, it accomplishes that.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
So that's what this thread is about. I was trying to figure out how the hell this th read got past page two.
After seeing some skill talk I knew I didn't even need page one.
Ign is going to get a grandma to play thier next cod mp review if it can triple the hits.
After seeing some skill talk I knew I didn't even need page one.
Ign is going to get a grandma to play thier next cod mp review if it can triple the hits.
The fact that people are defending this completely blows my mind.
I'm being 100% serious here when I say that my 4 year old lad has probably double the amount of skill when it comes to controlling a first person game.
I do not expect a top gaming site to be publishing footage at a lower skill level than him.
I'm being 100% serious here when I say that my 4 year old lad has probably double the amount of skill when it comes to controlling a first person game.
I do not expect a top gaming site to be publishing footage at a lower skill level than him.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Why do people keep saying nonsense like "Oh my friends would probably look this bad if they were playing!"
Like who give a damn? Are your friends working for a professional gaming outlet? I sure hope not.
Like who give a damn? Are your friends working for a professional gaming outlet? I sure hope not.
Pretty much anyone is going to be crap when trying to live stream a new game while talking over the feed. Doubly so if you're trying to highlight secondary features (such as lighting effects or texture work) while still playing.
That said, if you're doing recorded footage, you should be able to just give it a go and then put together a video with solid gameplay.
This is, sadly, one of the reasons why so many PR teams put restrictions on outlets for previews and only allow B-Roll footage to be used.
gunslikewhoa
Member
LOL @ the notion that calling someone out for playing worse than my grandmother on a gaming publication's channel is elitist.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
What is this nonsense.
Riddle me this: Is it elitist to ask that a car reviewer have basic driving competency? Is it elitist to ask a literary critic to be literate?
NeOak
Member
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You know, calling the people who think this video looks ridiculous "elitist" really damages the argument against actual videogame elitism.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
MadClacker
Member
Polygon's footage of Doom is pretty shocking. I can only guess that he was playing with one hand while jerking off over how good it is with the other.
Not sure you know what aim assist is either. Aim assist has nothing to do with the bullet hitting the target, it only nudges the reticle when the reticle is near an enemy. The distance the nudge happens can vary wildly between games.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Hey, that's not very nice to say about someone who may be opposably-thumb challenged.
Pakoe
Member
LOL
It is elitism to ask for a company who specialises in gaming related content to have basic comprehension on how gaming input works in their output? What am I actually reading? Why even have professional journalism if anyone can step in off the street? The great thing about your paragraph is that this type of content is designed for streams and random youtube series and is a big and welcome hit on them.
Here's this video from a "professional" gaming website:
-30 minutes of gameplay involving a person coming to grips with a nearly twenty year old technology.
-No commentary or any form of usable information/showcase of the game - especially damaging considering the hubbub around Doom before launch. Considering the lack of review copies, it's fairly likely this was rushed out footage in the rat race that was the Doom launch.
-Polygon are not exactly new to putting quantity ahead of quality and have used the tried and tested disable all forms of feedback method to answering criticism.
Compare it to Giant Bomb's video or Jim Sterling's videos, neither of which are L33T demonstrations of Doom but give information and an idea of what the game is like to play. My, and many others here, have a problem with Polygon deeming this worthy content, not with the actual player, who is probably some poor sod who was forced into this to reach a deadline - gotta get them clicks. I'm guessing somewhere in this company there is someone who could make a decent video to provide their userbase with some actual information about the game, or am I giving Polygon too much credit?
Nah, there's multiple types of aim assist. One is what you describe and other is what he talks about.
That's a good point.
Inability to play the game is completely different argument than the inability to use the correct play style. The latter could even be morphed into a direct criticism that the game isn't flexible enough to be enjoyed with multiple play styles.
Original post for context
stan423321
Member
Do you know what direction even is? Hint: you can't measure it with feet.
Besides there are many possible ways to implement aim assist. As a person that plays most of games on PC I don't know what is popular, but I remember something even as indirect as "cursor moves slower when it's close to a sensible target" described as implemented somewhere.
I thought aim assist would essentially snap your cursor to the intended target, not bend the bullet to hit the intended target.
*I haven't played a shooter on console in over a decade.
SirMossyBloke
Member
That example isn't aim assist. That's sticky aim or something named similar.
potatohead
Member
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. In every other medium that reviews and previews things they hire people who understand at least the basics of the things they're showcasing. Please show me one respected journalism outlet outside of video games that lets people who have no idea what they're doing or talking about showcase things for consumers. The only one I can think of is sports journalism, which is almost as poorly run as the video games journalism industry is.
No one claims it's elitist to have people know what the fuck they're doing when hired on to a job. By that logic expecting a person wanting to get hired to have a resume that includes a basic knowledge of whatever job they're applying for is elitist. Which is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
And yes, keeping newbie crap off websites is a perfectly reasonable desire. Especially because content like this serves absolutelt no purpose. They're supposed to be fucking professionals. And professionals are supposed to provide content of people knowing what the fuck they're doing.
I thought that claiming it was eletism was the last dumb straw one could pull out of this arguement, but trying to shoehorn classism into it is taking this arguement to a whole new level of stupid.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The only reason there is this much vitriol is because there have been people in here defending this as perfectly reasonable content for a website that is supposed to be full of journalists. Most people are just making dumb jokes about how bad the video is, people are getting annoyed at the people acting like this is good content. Because if people keep acting like shit like this is helpful, then it just makes it easier for video game journalists to be worse than they already are.
You're making excuses in favor of content that won't ever help you or anyone, and as someone who goes on these websites to see content that helps me make purchases I don't want the people who run them thinking shit like this is helpful or acceptable. And it's extra irritating that fellow consumers will make excuses for it without any good arguement in place for why they're defending it outside of "I think people are being too mean."
At that point you're just playing the contrarian.
Then on top of all that, you have people outright claiming elitism and classism because they expect a basic level of competency out of the people who feed them info about what they go to the website for in the first place. Because it's always easier to try and paint your opponent in a bad light in an arguement than it is to come up with your own argument. Especially when the arguments those people do come up with get shot down with reasoning at every turn.
EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I figured someone would have posted in between these two.
Riposte
Member
Well, the real heart of the matter is not that one's standards may be too high (or rather, too cruel), it's that they have (openly acknowledged) standards at all. The presented idea goes elitism (having standards) can make people feel excluded or inferior, so abolish elitism (having standards). Whether you are judging random individuals or individuals put in positions where there is higher expectations, it doesn't really matter. In this light, all knowledge and experience is equal, so there is no playing the game right or wrong, no good or bad reviews (opinions), no being experienced or inexperienced; everything is just different - but equal. Like I mentioned, such ideas would be disastrous in things that "matter", so they only exist as outcast niches, like hippies trying to comment on physics, but obviously there's no immediate harm in treating everyone's thoughts equally when it comes videogames (or art in general), so it's more acceptable.
But what proponents of this idealism overlook is that in acquiring more knowledge and experience than others, you begin to understand others as well. The man on the ground only sees what it is in front of him, but the man flying above him not only sees farther, he also sees the man below him and what he sees. So if you are know that someone hates a game and you can see their lack of knowledge compared to yours, then you inevitably make a judgment on their ability (basically, the person themselves) to explain this difference and set a standard (which is mean and cruel, etc).
stan423321
Member
Meanwhile, some people claim that the "circle" take on aim assist isn't aim assist, but "bullet magnetism". Personally, I find that a little pedantic. If it helps you with aiming, it's aim assist.
If the video is 'unacceptable' then you can switch it off within 10 seconds of realising it's not for you. We don't need 30 pages of this 'bla bla how dare Polygon release this video I haven't paid to watch that they aren't promoting heavily or pushing as a review or first impressions'.
BackFromThePast
Banned
Because these people are reviewers. They are not ordinary players. They give out review scores and influence a wide range of customers. A bad review from a critic could be the difference between great sales and very poor ones. Therefore the reviewer has a responsibility to accurately reflect the nature of the game. Putting up a reviewer to play a game they are not playing very well at all means there may inherently be a prolem with the result and final opinion of that reviewer.
Its not elitism to demand responsible reviewing.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The bullet travels along the direction you point to arrive at a contact point. The correct direction of your bullet path would lead to contact with the enemy. So "7 feet in the wrong direction" would mean that the enemy is in this direction, but you are aiming for your bullet to travel in that direction, 7 feet away from the enemy. I don't see what's so unintuitive about this phrasing.
I haven't had that kind, but I usually turn off aim assist if it has the option. If it pushes your cursor that would be pretty maddening because it'd cause hangups when passing the cursor over one enemy to strategically kill a different one first or make you miss headshots because it aims center mass or not allow you to properly lead your shots with projectile weapons (as opposed to hitscan). The only games I've had aim assist for did it the way I describe. I have clips demonstrating it, too.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Again, this thread isn't 30 pages of people just shitting on the video. The ONLY reason it's 30 pages is because there are people in here defending it like it has value and trying to make excuses as to why it does. That's where the vast bulk of the posts in this thread are coming from.
The conversation has long since moved on (Literally on the first page) from the singular video and has moved on to the general question on if people in the video games journalism industry need to be competent at covering the products that they're paid to cover. This video is just a jumping off point for a much wider and important discussion.
The problem is this kind of "journalism" is becoming more and more common in the video game industry and deserves to be called out, especially when it's a large site like Polygon, who clearly want to ignore the criticism. Answer this question: besides money, what is the purpose of this video as released by Polygon to its userbase?
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Don't be obtuse. The reason this thread reached 30 pages is because people are arguing over this subject. People are doing more than just making fun of or complaining about the video in here.
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