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[dakkumauji]

Wouldn't that actually cost...more? I maybe wrong but isn't their some prominent Japanese Voice Actors in this game? like Kiria's voiced by the same woman who does Ayase Eli(Eri) from Love Live right?

It's just weird...

the sensible idea is that they had these changes already planned so it was just more recording the first time around

the crazy idea is that they dragged these busy seiyuus back into the studio again to record them

considering the level of edits they are doing are mostly falling on the crazy side, the crazy idea seems more fit

 

[TheRook]

Technically, most of the changes they're doing cost more. They're creating all new art assets and outfits to replace the Japanese ones.

I wasn't aware really of the redubbed Japanese lines, damn. So to add to the list of things...

-Character costumes and FMV sequences have been changed/altered.
-Elements in dungeon(s) have changed.
-Japanese script has been changed to align with Localized script complete with redub of original voices.
-Complete removal of DLC content.

please add more if I'm missing anything

 

[Crash Station]

But this isn't a topic of real world importance along the lines of actual, real people being the targets of racism, sexism, bigotry, or something along those lines.

This is a whataboutism that no one has even brought up. Some issues will be more relevant to one's life than others even if said others are obviously more important. Just like how arguing on a video game message board is more relevant to some than fighting against the human rights violations that take place the world over, or even actively supporting them by buying pretty much any electronic available.

All that happened was 2 people experessed displeasure at a developer's opinion to the point of boycott. Is it petty? Sure, and probably on the very low end of things you can separate the work from the artist for for most people. But clearly not everyone, and no one can tell those people are wrong for feeling that way.

Right. I'm not saying it's our job to whitewash it, or that we should rewrite literature. I'm asking you to imagine that it had already taken place, much like Tokyo Mirage Sessions, the localization is done, or nearly so. So, imagine the creator of a hypothetical video game hates East Asians. Chinese, Japanese, etc. He puts in a random scene where the protagonist encounters an East Asian who goes "ching ching bong bong!" and then bares buckteeth with big glasses. The protagonist shoots this individual, then makes a out-of-character racial slur. It develops nothing and is unconnected to the plot. It's just a racial pot shot, because the creator is deeply racist.

So, a new thread pops up. It turns out, as part of the localization, they're going to remove that scene. Do we get a fifty page thread of passionate people arguing that the "ching ching bong bong" scene gets added back? That they just can't imagine playing the game without having the opportunity to shoot "ching ching bong bong" man? That this is heinous censorship? Or do we get a couple sheepish remarks and nothing more? My guess is the latter.

Would you consider the "gay conversion therapy" in FE Fates an equivalent here? Because people did argue against that being changed. Not because they support gay conversion therapy obviously, but rather they don't like original intent being changed regardless of some vile implications.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Is it petty? Sure, and probably on the very low end of things you can separate the work from the artist for for most people. But clearly not everyone, and no one can tell those people are wrong for feeling that way.

When it results in disrespecting another member, yes, it's wrong.

 

[MrSaturn99]

What I find interesting about the redone lines thing is that it's a no-win situation. If they'd just changed the age thing in the subtitles, they'd be called lazy and incompetent. But now that they've gone back and recorded it (assuming it wasn't done the first time), it's labelled as bizarre.

Personally I don't care about it but I find it more interesting in that it's inconsistent with the other related edits (barring the possibility they did said edits on the grounds that she's still a high-schooler).

 

[Eolz]

I wasn't aware really of the redubbed Japanese lines, damn. So to add to the list of things...

-Character costumes and FMV sequences have been changed/altered.
-Elements in dungeon(s) have changed.
-Japanese script has been changed to align with Localized script complete with redub of original voices.
-Complete removal of DLC content.

please add more if I'm missing anything

Characters positions in some cutscenes have been changed but that probably falls in 2).
Same for some stuff being covered/hidden by flames in some other cutscenes, falls in 1).

 

[thumb]

Would you consider the "gay conversion therapy" in FE Fates an equivalent here? Because people did argue against that being changed. Not because they support gay conversion therapy obviously, but rather they don't like original intent being changed regardless of some vile implications.

My memory may be faulty, but I recall people mostly arguing to keep it in because the scene was misunderstood. That is, it wasn't actually a gay conversion thing, but a mistranslation that had given that impression.

 

[NeonZ]

My memory may be faulty, but I recall people mostly arguing to keep it in because the scene was misunderstood. That is, it wasn't actually a gay conversion thing, but a mistranslation that had given that impression.

The localized conversation is basically the same as the original, but replacing a "magical powder" that made her see men as women with her being asked to close her eyes and imagine men as women. The magic powder also was originally given to her without her consent, although afterwards she learns about it and likes it.

A much bigger change, and which received much less attention, was NOA removing almost all of her other romantic pairings, aside from the Avatar's (they're still there mechanically, but the conversations go out of their way to make it clear that they're just friends).

 

[SeanTSC]

Nah, I get where he's coming from. A lot of hardline stances have been taken with seemingly no room for any middle ground.

And calm down man.

I'm very calm. I just dislike people trying to rope me into little "thought experiments" that feel like Bait. It's not cool and it makes me uncomfortable.

For me this thread is about TMS' bad localization and Nintendo's, more specifically NoA's, recent behavior and how I feel disrespected as a customer. That's all. That's three games now that I haven't and won't be buying from them because of it and I really hope that this is the last of it, because I'm sure I'd enjoy those games otherwise.

I love RPGs and I love Nintendo stuff and I really want to be excited for all of it. I don't want to pass on the type of games that I enjoy most just because someone at NoA is being really weird. It sucks.

 

[Jarmel]

Right. I'm not saying it's our job to whitewash it, or that we should rewrite literature. I'm asking you to imagine that it had already taken place, much like Tokyo Mirage Sessions, the localization is done, or nearly so. So, imagine the creator of a hypothetical video game hates East Asians. Chinese, Japanese, etc. He puts in a random scene where the protagonist encounters an East Asian who goes "ching ching bong bong!" and then bares buckteeth with big glasses. The protagonist shoots this individual, then makes a out-of-character racial slur. It develops nothing and is unconnected to the plot. It's just a racial pot shot, because the creator is deeply racist.

So, a new thread pops up. It turns out, as part of the localization, they're going to remove that scene. Do we get a fifty page thread of passionate people arguing that the "ching ching bong bong" scene gets added back? That they just can't imagine playing the game without having the opportunity to shoot "ching ching bong bong" man? That this is heinous censorship? Or do we get a couple sheepish remarks and nothing more? My guess is the latter.

My opinion would be to leave it in.

Now that doesn't mean I would buy the game nor that I would be necessarily sad if it's removed out.

Not to mention this is a really bad strawman argument.

 

[Flame Lord]

So, a new thread pops up. It turns out, as part of the localization, they're going to remove that scene. Do we get a fifty page thread of passionate people arguing that the "ching ching bong bong" scene gets added back? That they just can't imagine playing the game without having the opportunity to shoot "ching ching bong bong" man? That this is heinous censorship? Or do we get a couple sheepish remarks and nothing more? My guess is the latter.

Even in that case I'd say leave it in. Yeah, the scene would be pretty disgusting, and if that's the case people will hear about it, not buy the game, it bombs and that's that. Even if they did censor it, what difference does it make? All it does is avoid making the player feel uncomfortable, but in the end you're still funding a racist.

 

[BGBW]

For anyone who wants to argue idol culture is an unknown to the west may I suggest taking this opportunity to tune into Eurovision right now.

 

[Negator]

Part of me makes me wonder if Nintendo is intentionally manufacturing this controversy to increase awareness of its niche titles. While it cannot be proven and sounds rather on the tinfoil hat side, I can't shake this feeling that we're all being manipulated into making a big deal out of games that are not really a big deal.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

No, part of this whole crazy thing is that they're changing the audible Japanese lines to fit the modified English scenes and text.

That's really bizarre, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Do they think most people would notice?

 

[dan2026]

Nintendo sure do seem to be very censor happy these days.

I thought they'd grown out of that in the 90s. Guess not.

 

[HMD]

I thought Atlus published all their games, why does Nintendo have a say in this? Or is this like a Nintendo IP?

 

[Eolz]

I thought Atlus published all their games, why does Nintendo have a say in this? Or is this like a Nintendo IP?

Nintendo funded the game and it uses the FE IP.

 

[HMD]

Nintendo funded the game and it uses the FE IP.

Then I don't see anything wrong with it, Nintendo of America is just trying to protect their child friendly brand. Square Enix does it all the time.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Then I don't see anything wrong with it, Nintendo of America is just trying to protect their child friendly brand. Square Enix does it all the time.

What about the inconsistency between a boss' intentionally blocked cleavage in one scene and visible cleavage in the next?

What about the inconsistency between Tsubasa's idol outfit being modified to hide her cleavage, but her Carnage outfit showing her cleavage?

What about the fact that the ages were modified already, despite all of the art modifications and the DLC removal?

 

[zeelman]

Then I don't see anything wrong with it, Nintendo of America is just trying to protect their child friendly brand. Square Enix does it all the time.

What child friendly brand does Square Enix have besides Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Tohsaka]

Then I don't see anything wrong with it, Nintendo of America is just trying to protect their child friendly brand. Square Enix does it all the time.

Square Enix does not censor their games for the west all the time. The only recent times it's happened has been Bravely Default/Second, and both of those were published by Nintendo.

 

[dakkumauji]

Then I don't see anything wrong with it, Nintendo of America is just trying to protect their child friendly brand. Square Enix does it all the time.

yes, nintendo's child friendly brand that published and released bayo2, devil's third and fatal frame v

 

[HMD]

yes, nintendo's child friendly brand that published and released bayo2, devil's third and fatal frame v

Bayo isn't a Nintendo IP, nor is Fatal Frame. I don't know much about Devil's Third though.

Square Enix does not censor their games for the west all the time. The only recent times it's happened has been Bravely Default/Second, and both of those were published by Nintendo.

Kingdom Hearts 2 and 1 both had censored scenes. Aqua's outfit was redesigned because her original outfit was deemed too revealing.

What child friendly brand does Square Enix have besides Kingdom Hearts?

Admittedly all the time was an exaggeration, but SE has a history with it. By the way child friendly was referring to Nintendo not SE.

What about the inconsistency between a boss' intentionally blocked cleavage in one scene and visible cleavage in the next?

What about the inconsistency between Tsubasa's idol outfit being modified to hide her cleavage, but her Carnage outfit showing her cleavage?

What about the fact that the ages were modified already, despite all of the art modifications and the DLC removal?

I thought the game has yet to release? Maybe these details are just a work in progress, or maybe they're just inconsistent. It's their brand after all, and you can choose to vote with your wallet.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I thought the game has yet to release? Maybe these details are just a work in progress, or maybe they're just inconsistent. It's their brand after all, and you can choose to vote with your wallet.

The game is coming out in a month and some outlets already have review copies of it. Saying "it's their brand" doesn't really tell me what you think of the inconsistencies.

 

[thumb]

The game is coming out in a month and some outlets already have review copies of it. Saying "it's their brand" doesn't really tell me what you think of the inconsistencies.

My guess is that the overall effort is to tone down the sexualization, not remove it. By way of analogy, you can swear in a PG-13 movie, you just can't swear *a lot*. And when and how you swear is sometimes a negotiation.

 

[HMD]

The game is coming out in a month and some outlets already have review copies of it. Saying "it's their brand" doesn't really tell me what you think of the inconsistencies.

It's weird if it's true, but I don't mind it. NoA is free to do whatever they want with the IP, it's their loss if it costs them any potential sales.

 

[MrSaturn99]

That's really bizarre, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Do they think most people would notice?

Considering the cherrypicked fields of Fire Emblem Fates, you bet.

Like I said earlier, if it was just the subtitles then you'd have people pointing out the incongruity as a half-baked effort of censorship. Truly a no-win situation.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Technically, most of the changes they're doing cost more. They're creating all new art assets and outfits to replace the Japanese ones.

I hope they know they aren't going to recover that investment.

 

[Tohsaka]

Kingdom Hearts 2 and 1 both had censored scenes. Aqua's outfit was redesigned because her original outfit was deemed too revealing.

Yeah, those games aren't very recent though. SE typically doesn't have a history of censoring their games in the west these days like NoA does, the vast majority of the time is what I was trying to say. I know they definitely did it some in the past.

 

[BGBW]

The problem here is that NCl's messenging in recent years has differed greatly from NoA's (NoE just gets what it gets, but seems more liberal when it has come to projects its been in charge of e.g Xenoblade which, as far as I know, only had one change; Black face to Metal face, which is understandable why).

NCL asked for raunchy Nintendo costumes in Bayonetta. NCL funded games like Fatal Frame and Devil's Third. NCL greenlighted this game. As communications improve and knowledge of what's happening on the other side of the world becomes more apparent Nintendo really has to consider what image they want going forward because there's clearly a clash going on.

 

[Elaugaufein]

For anyone who wants to argue idol culture is an unknown to the west may I suggest taking this opportunity to tune into Eurovision right now.

If you think idol culture is unknown in the West look at boy bands, pop stars and even some professional athletes.

 

[EvilKatarn]

Looked through the changes they've made and seeing the inconsistencies between the edits and subject matter really makes me wonder what Nintendo's motivation in this whole thing is. They're watering it down in a way that serves to alienate the only audience that might have an interest in this game. Yes, there is the argument that they want a T rating, but considering Persona 4 is CERO C/ESRB M and #FE is CERO B then an ESRB T was likely going to be theirs anyway.

All I see is a company extremely out of touch with what they're publishing and who's actually gonna buy it.

I don't have a Wii U and I was quite pissed when the game was re-revealed as #FE but over time I did grow a bit more interested in the game. It just seemed like a more cheery SMT that'd occasionally touch on the grim side of idol culture. And from the impressions I get from this thread it does not seem like the game did the latter that much anyway which makes me that much more disappointed that they're removing that small bit about it.

 

[NeOak]

For anyone who wants to argue idol culture is an unknown to the west may I suggest taking this opportunity to tune into Eurovision right now.

If you think idol culture is unknown in the West look at boy bands, pop stars and even some professional athletes.

Yup.

Justin Bieber is example enough. And One Direction.

brb washing my hands after typing that.

 

[Socivol]

I wasn't aware really of the redubbed Japanese lines, damn. So to add to the list of things...

-Character costumes and FMV sequences have been changed/altered.
-Elements in dungeon(s) have changed.
-Japanese script has been changed to align with Localized script complete with redub of original voices.
-Complete removal of DLC content.

please add more if I'm missing anything

This annoys me. If they were going to do a redub why not just do it in English? They could have just left the Japanese songs the same it wouldn't be like it would be the first time a game had an English dub but a Japanese theme song.

 

[Eolz]

This annoys me. If they were going to do a redub why not just do it in English? They could have just left the Japanese songs the same it wouldn't be like it would be the first time a game had an English dub but a Japanese theme song.

My guess is that they wanted to allow dual-audio but gave up on this point in the end since it could have been implemented later during the localization process (unlike the other changes).

 

[Pancake Mix]

Having thought about it for a while, the fact that Nintendo is dealing with a niche of a niche is what makes the more heavyhanded changes so bizarre. That said, it's just Nintendo of America cutting potential controversy before it happens. That's not something they're afraid to do as they clearly don't care about the game and they have made that explicitly clear.

There's not really much else to say. Yes, I think it's pretty justifiable to be upset when Nintendo makes changes so extreme that no other localization company of niche Japanese games would ever think of them, like covering up the bosses' "breasts" for a brief moment (come on, T rated games can have worse than that), or having the manager changed to a MORE SUGGESTIVE POSITION because someone at NOA didn't want her lying down. That was awfully silly....

I will buy the game as I have heard it's amazing and I think it will be rare, but this and the removed Camilla interactions in Fates have probably discouraged me from getting an NX, unless something crazy like a 64/Sunshine 3D Mario happened. Yes, I like the JRPGs Nintendo has published (developed or not) a lot and it's one of the main reasons I buy their hardware.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJD48GsHqE

Looking at this trailer, I think they are actually trying to target a younger audience with this game. Might explain some things.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJD48GsHqE

Looking at this trailer, I think they are actually trying to target a younger audience with this game. Might explain some things.

It definitely does make it seem like they're specifically shooting for that "T" audience. Interested in seeing how this will all pan out.

 

[Vena]

It definitely does make it seem like they're specifically shooting for that "T" audience. Interested in seeing how this will all pan out.

Makes me wonder what caused the strategy shift from M to T.

 

[bobbychalkers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJD48GsHqE

Looking at this trailer, I think they are actually trying to target a younger audience with this game. Might explain some things.

God that voiceover is obnoxious....

 

[Kudo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJD48GsHqE

Looking at this trailer, I think they are actually trying to target a younger audience with this game. Might explain some things.

It's really a shame.
Here's hoping NX is region free and backwards compatible.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Makes me wonder what caused the strategy shift from M to T.

They did foresee it being rated M from the April 2015 and E3 2015 trailers, but I still find it really hard to believe that this would ever be rated M with the Japanese content #FE has, considering other titles (notably Persona 4: Dancing All Night). Maybe once they realized that, they just decided to weigh in even harder for the teenage audience for some reason? No idea.

 

[-shadow-]

It's really a shame.
Here's hoping NX is region free and backwards compatible.

If the NX will support WiiU games and it will be region free, I doubt WiiU games will be. Sony and Microsoft have both proven this. Nintendo probably won't because they can't do so due to contractual obligations signed for WiiU games.

 

[Phu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psJD48GsHqE

Looking at this trailer, I think they are actually trying to target a younger audience with this game. Might explain some things.

It's definitely leaning on the younger end of the T rating. But I still don't think it explains things any better?

Totally scattershot.

 

[Kudo]

If the NX will support WiiU games and it will be region free, I doubt WiiU games will be. Sony and Microsoft have both proven this. Nintendo probably won't because they can't do so due to contractual obligations signed for WiiU games.

Could just get JP NX in that case, and play all NX games normally and JP WiiU games.
We'll see, just holding to that tiny bit of hope.

 

[Rarius]

I'm baffled at this, then Nintendo doesn't even show it or Final off at E3, for at least one game that comes out like immediately afterwards.

 

[Nyoro SF]

It's definitely leaning on the younger end of the T rating. But I still don't think it explains things any better?



Totally scattershot.

They left that in? Haha.... when I was playing, I thought that would be something they'd snipe for sure.

If teenage boys are hoping this game is playable in front of their mom or something, they're gonna have a tough time explaining away a few more things in this game...

It definitely does make it seem like they're specifically shooting for that "T" audience. Interested in seeing how this will all pan out.

I was getting a bit of the JSR vibe with bringing in a DJ. It just made me think it's kind of a shame that TMS isn't more "street", like a game about teen punk rockers, but something like that wouldn't sell in Japan at all.

 

[muteki]

If the NX will support WiiU games and it will be region free, I doubt WiiU games will be. Sony and Microsoft have both proven this. Nintendo probably won't because they can't do so due to contractual obligations signed for WiiU games.

Yeah I don't see them going back and retroactively re-negotiating all the licencing involved.

It's why the older game catalog on all console online shops are so shit coverage wise.

 

[adroit]

Cringe-inducing "DJ MasterSeal". Video is better with sound muted.

Even though it has a "T" rating, the truth is they're trying to target pre-teens (tweeners).

 

[KingBroly]

This annoys me. If they were going to do a redub why not just do it in English? They could have just left the Japanese songs the same it wouldn't be like it would be the first time a game had an English dub but a Japanese theme song.

They'd probably have to re-do all of the songs in English, which means re-doing everything from scratch.