Gran Turismo Sport Unveiling live stream discussion (incl. FIA Championship gameplay)

Learn to take any sort of % completion talk by any Japanese developer with a grain of salt, because we literally have no idea what context is that developer referencing.

Dead or Alive Extreme 3 was 20% complete in Oct 2015. It shipped in Mar 2016, 5 months later.

I clearly remember a Metroid game also in the 20-30% range, but then was then ready in 6 months.

FFXV was 65% complete August last year, and suddenly in 2 months time it entered actual content-complete beta playable from start to finish, and that they'll cover 35% of the completion within one year, despite the initial 65% taking a minimum of 4 years, if we start from the 2012 reboot.

FFXIII Lightning Returns was 70% complete as of May 2013. 5 months later it was ready to be shipped. Even within the same company, % completion literally means fucking nothing because it's a number pulled from the arse that the devs themselves put out there as a general metric of what they feel the game's overall stage is at, without context of why he puts the numbers.

Did they count all the time put into engine/tech development? Did they not? Is asset completion worth 50% or worth 80% to the respective dev? Does having a working build mean 20% of the completion? Or is it 30%? What is pre-production worth in terms of percentage? 0%? 5%? 10%? 20%? We literally have no effing clue unless they tell us the reasoning behind those percentages.
 
0racle said:
it only looks half decent when the video is on mute.

I think we are holding onto good memories here and we dont want GT to fade.

if this was some random racing game shown from some random developer I would be hard pressed to find anyone interested in this. These cars are arguably the most exciting to drive in a racing game and it looks like a bore.

Just for a comparison, here is PCars same track on ps4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIRX_EMqvPc
Click to expand...

That looks significantly worse than GTS and the sound is headache inducing.
 
benzy said:
pCars Willow looks pretty bad to me. GTS still needs more lively engine sounds in comparison to the video though.
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Not defending the GTS sound, but I have to agree, that clip is not a good showing for pCARS!

The track surface looks actually quite good in pCARS' version of Willow Springs compared to other tracks in the game that look like plastered with dried out cast. The sound on the other hand can be much better in pCARS than in that clip, depending on the car.

Still, I'd take the "acceptable" sound from that pCARS clip over what GTS has shown (so far).
 
GT Sport looks to me like it will be fully a PS VR game.

Its coming out similar time as psvr adds to that thinking. PS vr is a massive undertaking by sony, best thing they have that works on it is GT. Most logical decision they could make is a GT release on it near its launch window.

Was initially massively disappointed but have seen enough that its quite good, but why PD is so stupid to use old builds for a "debut" is beyond me though.

In comparison to the competition its looks severely held back, only logical conclusion i can make is its due to Vr constraints. Its also why they don't call it GT7 and since it will be playable off the Vr its not called GT vr.

anyone else think similar ?
 
0racle said:
it only looks half decent when the video is on mute.

I think we are holding onto good memories here and we dont want GT to fade.

if this was some random racing game shown from some random developer I would be hard pressed to find anyone interested in this. These cars are arguably the most exciting to drive in a racing game and it looks like a bore.

Just for a comparison, here is PCars same track on ps4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIRX_EMqvPc
Click to expand...

That doesn't look nor sound more realistic. Not that GT is even close being perfect in the sound department but is our baseline the Fast and The Furious franchise?
 
gutterboy44 said:
I posted those quotes from GT6 impressions (a few of them from the same sites praising GTS in a familiar way) because we've done this dance before. From gameplay impressions all the way up to the point where the game is in our hands we are told either A) so much has changed and improved B) we are not seeing or hearing things correctly. It is a bad pair of head phones, the wrong surround sound settings, or C) the real big changes are just around the corner. In the form of a new build, a new patch , of an entirely new release, the next GT will not only fix these issues, but knock it out of the park.

This notion that any new GT footage has to be viewed off the reflection of swamp gas to somehow see or hear these supposed massive changes is tiresome and I have personally fell for it before. A few outlets have GT die hards who are more than happy to be an extension of the PD and Kaz PR smoke and mirrors game. So many people are willing to make excuses for PD and Kaz over and over.

If PD never releases a revolutionary GT game again, I'll live. There are so many good racing sims now. However, I genuinely want GT to return to form as a lifelong fan and someone who truly appreciates their moments of brilliance. As it stands, I am seeing lots of last gen GT systems stil kicking around (some of which span multiple gens), including the same tired defense force excuses. I want to believe, but PD have no one to blame but themselves that a lot of us are fed up with the franchise.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you know by now how the media cover GT. And what excuses? You seem to know what GT is all about - youre a fan. What is wrong with how the game is? I personally think the finished version will be stable and consistent graphically, while sounds will remain as they are. I have no beef with that, because driving, menu browsing, car shopping and whatever was always better for me in GT than any other game. If come november I'll see that I've out-grown it than fine. There are other games, like you said.

It's also obvious that as time went by, and more devs entered the picture, that other racing games would offer things that GT does not. Yet GT continues to interest and entertain us. What is wrong with not having ultra realistic damage or ultra realistic sound in a driving game? True, some of it adds to the experience (sound mainly), but it's always evident that GT has a lot going for it.

From your comments, you obviously want to like GT, and I'm pretty confident that it can. You just need to be your own judge, and wait for the final product. You decide if they game is good, not some obscure levels of criteria the media and other fans biker on.

You can let it get to you, or you can rise above it.
 
Mula said:
Is there a chance this is 90fps native on PSVR ?
Click to expand...

There's always a chance. But not much for the base version. More likely on the Neo version. But I honestly think they'll try to push graphical fidelity rather than framerate for both version.
 
Forza's UI is ok, DiRT's is ok too, but Driveclubs was hot and clean at the same time, and it felt so fast and snappy. The UI in GTS looks very close to that, if it's structured well to find all the features intuitively without having to guess where to find what, it could be just as good as DC's. But why is the mouse cursor still there?? They are willing to let go of the iconic GT menu sounds, but not the mouse cursor?
 
jett said:
I don't think this game's cockpit camera could look more sterile and unexciting. Forget about graphics, just look at how dynamic the camera is in Driveclub. In GTS the guy even bumps against another car than there's no reaction whatsoever.
Click to expand...

It's Gran Turismo. I'd be upset if they didn't make it entirely clinical.

The gimmicky elements of DriveClub like the enchanced FoV (to increase sense of speed) and camera judder were the most unappealing elements. For an otherwise classy game, it's just annoying.

Obviously people feel differently, but to me Gran Turismo isn't constantly and artificially trying to make you feel fast or excited. It makes you desire a straight line, or test your new car on the test ring, see if you can get to the max speed. All it's highs are actual highs, and it makes you work for them.
 
Pophead said:
New direct footage from GTPlanet @ Willow Springs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSdxyA__rrc

Menu exploration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLSQFhbkyTo
Click to expand...

Man now that I think about this game, 16 cars on the track, weather, damage and it looks pretty good. I think that this being a all inclusive VR title it is miles ahead of any racing game before it on the PS4. I think a lot of you guys are missing that very key ingredient of what they manage to do for a game designed to be in VR. Drive club for all its beauty was only able to get 8 cars on the track. If every car designed to be looked around in VR, this is probably why they only have 137 cars to start. Looking around in VR.

I think you guys really need to think about the VR side and the PS4 power or lack there of before y'all start shitting on PD.
 
Hussaro said:
GT Sport looks to me like it will be fully a PS VR game.

Its coming out similar time as psvr adds to that thinking. PS vr is a massive undertaking by sony, best thing they have that works on it is GT. Most logical decision they could make is a GT release on it near its launch window.

Was initially massively disappointed but have seen enough that its quite good, but why PD is so stupid to use old builds for a "debut" is beyond me though.

In comparison to the competition its looks severely held back, only logical conclusion i can make is its due to Vr constraints. Its also why they don't call it GT7 and since it will be playable off the Vr its not called GT vr.

anyone else think similar ?
Click to expand...

GT Sport has Playstation VR support confirmed already

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1130492

I mean using an old build for the trailer is perfectly fine. They just didn't contemplate people tearing it apart I guess.
 
backbreaker65 said:
Man now that I think about this game, 16 cars on the track, weather, damage and it looks pretty good. I think that this being a all inclusive VR title it is miles ahead of any racing game before it on the PS4. I think a lot of you guys are missing that very key ingredient of what they manage to do for a game designed to be in VR. Drive club for all its beauty was only able to get 8 cars on the track. If every car designed to be looked around in VR, this is probably why they only have 137 cars to start. Looking around in VR.

I think you guys really need to think about the VR side and the PS4 power or lack there of before y'all start shitting on PD.
Click to expand...

We don't have a final car count. Some races in GTS had 20 cars.
 
Pound_lb003 said:
It's Gran Turismo. I'd be upset if they didn't make it entirely clinical.

The gimmicky elements of DriveClub like the enchanced FoV (to increase sense of speed) and camera judder were the most unappealing elements. For an otherwise classy game, it's just annoying.

Obviously people feel differently, but to me Gran Turismo isn't constantly and artificially trying to make you feel fast or excited. It makes you desire a straight line, or test your new car on the test ring, see if you can get to the max speed. All it's highs are actual highs, and it makes you work for them.
Click to expand...


What are you talking about? Have you ever driven a car over 100 MPH? GT's cockpit camera is trash, it doesn't react to the physical movement of the car the way your head or helmet mounted camera would. It is bizarrely stable, almost as if it were on a high powered gimbal or something. That's not real.

Replicating the visceral, and at times violent, nature of driving a car at high speed is important. It adds to the immersion and if this game is supposed to be one of the most realistic racing games, if they're going to continue to dub it the "driving simulator" it needs to get better at replicating that experience.

Some of the defenses of this game are bizarre.
 
"My plan is that Gran Turismo Sport will be compatible to allow all aspects of [the game] to be experienced in VR," he continued. "We've been compatible with 3D before, in GT6 we've been compatible with Oculus, so it's just a continuation of that."
Click to expand...

So has anybody actually explained what Kaz meant by this? Did they have some internal build of GT6 which supported Oculus?

ShutterMunster said:
What are you talking about? Have you ever driven a car over 100 MPH? GT's cockpit camera is trash, it doesn't react to the physical movement of the car the way your head or helmet mounted camera would. It is bizarrely stable, almost as if it were on a high powered gimbal or something. That's not real.

Replicating the visceral, and at times violent, nature of driving a car at high speed is important. It adds to the immersion and if this game is supposed to be one of the most realistic racing games, if they're going to continue to dub it the "driving simulator" it needs to get better at replicating that experience.

Some of the defenses of this game are embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Nothing really embarrassing about what was said there. Your head is not stable at all at spead though in a crash it should be far less stable but then again that is true of most other racing games (driveclub does it well)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVPcOWHWhKs

What she or he doesn't want is the FOV change to give the illusion of speed which is completely unrealistic and the streaks of air or exaggerated motion blur that is seen in other games that gives you a fake sense of speed.
 
jett said:
I don't think this game's cockpit camera could look more sterile and unexciting. Forget about graphics, just look at how dynamic the camera is in Driveclub. In GTS the guy even bumps against another car than there's no reaction whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Yeah GT makes doing 150mph feel like a Sunday stroll, pretty sad. Also the interior of the car looks so sterile. That netting on the left should be moving about, shaking as the car vibrates and swinging based on physics. Nope, just a rigid thing sitting there not moving. And as someone else mentioned GT seems to be completely missing windscreen reflections of the inside of the car. So disappointed in this. And yep the sound is awful. No sense of being in an actual car at all. Sounds like a flat engine note and tire squeal. Other games like Dirt Rally make the car come alive, you can hear the frame rattling etc. Urgh.
 
ShutterMunster said:
GT's cockpit camera is trash, it doesn't react to the physical movement of the car the way your head or helmet mounted camera would. It is bizarrely stable, almost as if it were on a high powered gimbal or something. That's not real.
Click to expand...
If you're sitting perfectly still on your couch, and only the image on the television is shaking, that's not realistic at all.
Either everything shakes, or nothing shakes. Anything in between is fake. A dumb effect to make things seem more exciting than they really are.
 
On the other hand, having your pov shake in cockpit view would completely mess with you in VR. Sure, they would differentiate between TV and VR.
 
Goldrusher said:
If you're sitting perfectly still on your couch, and only the image on the television is shaking, that's not realistic at all.
Either everything shakes, or nothing shakes. Anything in between is fake. A dumb effect to make things seem more exciting than they really are.
Click to expand...

Disagree.

On PC, rFactor, GTR2, RaceRoom and a few others have headbobbing when under high Gs. That alone gives a much better sense of speed than GT ever has and nothing about it feels wrong. Having some kind of reactions in the camera is better than being completely still and sterile.
 
TheAdmiester said:
Disagree.

On PC, rFactor, GTR2, RaceRoom and a few others have headbobbing when under high Gs. That alone gives a much better sense of speed than GT ever has and nothing about it feels wrong. Having some kind of reactions in the camera is better than being completely still and sterile.
Click to expand...

Can you post me a high G Rfactor headbob? As far as I remember the camera bobs about far less realistically but more violently. In other words the headbob in GT6 is acceleration based but subtle whereas rfactor is car displacement based but exaggerated.
 
Psycho_Mantis said:
Yeah, I always find it disconnecting when some games shake the cockpit cam a bit too much while the user feels nothing.
Click to expand...

That's why you can adjust it in a lot of PC sims, in some of them even on the fly during gameplay with the press of 2 buttons, so you don't need to leave the track or go through menu screens.

If your track surface is not completely off or overly sterile, it's an easy option to implement for the people who like it. Same goes for FOV g-effects, look-into-corner, head-tilting, 360° seat position options, volume sliders for different effects... all not that hard to do.
 
Goldrusher said:
If you're sitting perfectly still on your couch, and only the image on the television is shaking, that's not realistic at all.
Either everything shakes, or nothing shakes. Anything in between is fake. A dumb effect to make things seem more exciting than they really are.
Click to expand...

This is wrong
 
Goldrusher said:
If you're sitting perfectly still on your couch, and only the image on the television is shaking, that's not realistic at all.
Either everything shakes, or nothing shakes. Anything in between is fake. A dumb effect to make things seem more exciting than they really are.
Click to expand...

Yeah... welcome to my block party.

FOH

Anyway, I'm still going to buy GTS. I want a sim, and as a photographer, their photo mode is highly enticing.
 
TylerDurden4321 said:
If your track surface is not completely off or overly sterile, it's an easy option to implement for the people who like it. Same goes for FOV g-effects, look-into-corner, head-tilting, 360° seat position options, volume sliders for different effects... all not that hard to do.
Click to expand...

Hard for some apparently..

PD is trying, but they were too insular a dev for so long and are just barely starting to rectify the major complaints.
 
Regarding the engine sound...

Direct feed from GTS in R8 race car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSdxyA__rrc

GHG posted this video of same car from Project Cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2dBLH9GEJw

Same car IRL in-car sounds. Skip to about 4 minutes and try to ignore guy who never shuts up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSo9vjK8et8

The PCars version sounds closer to the real thing, but can anyone with a real ear tell me specifically how? I'm hearing the GTS version lacking some boominess. Of course, the project cars clip is much louder than either the real life recording or the gts clip.

I'm not so sure there's a big a chasm here as many perceive. Neither the gts or tha pcars sound is dead on the orgional, with the gts sound being slightly too muffled and the pcars one being somewhat tarted up. I'll give the nod to project cars but not a crushing victory.
 
On those GT6 impressions, didn't a lot of that stuff ultimately pan out? I mean, yeah, the sound was still poor, but I thought they really DID do a lot of work on the handling. I really liked GT6.

Ultimately, my wants for a GTS are: more meaningful career mode, faster loading (GT6 was better than 5 but still too long), reduced tire squeal (please :(), more stable performance, and I'd like them to build out the online connectivity functionality of the challenge modes. I really loved seeing my friends' lines and their times against mine, and I hope they offer challenges a la Driveclub and lots of stuff like that.
 
Three said:
Can you post me a high G Rfactor headbob? As far as I remember the camera bobs about far less realistically but more violently. In other words the headbob in GT6 is acceleration based but subtle whereas rfactor is car displacement based but exaggerated.
Click to expand...
I think the boundaries and forces in rFactor are based on the car you're driving. Some of the cars I've driven feel stronger and some feel smoother, I believe in rally car mods it's stronger on purpose for when you go over jumps so it feels more "raw". I haven't driven any of the base game cars in years so you might be right about those, however, mods I've played feel much more believable and grounded like those in RRRE and GTR2.

EDIT: for clarification, by "the car you're driving" I mean as in its config and performance files. I imagine you can adjust them yourself if you knew where to look in the mod files but I'm not too familiar with ISIMotor.
 
Y2Kev said:
On those GT6 impressions, didn't a lot of that stuff ultimately pan out? I mean, yeah, the sound was still poor, but I thought they really DID do a lot of work on the handling. I really liked GT6.

Ultimately, my wants for a GTS are: more meaningful career mode, faster loading (GT6 was better than 5 but still too long), reduced tire squeal (please :(), more stable performance, and I'd like them to build out the online connectivity functionality of the challenge modes. I really loved seeing my friends' lines and their times against mine, and I hope they offer challenges a la Driveclub and lots of stuff like that.
Click to expand...

Criticism of gt is complex. Before the first Forza game, there really was none, then after there where certain complaints... things that Forza did better. A decade later there are a number of competitors and they range up and down the spectrum of hard simulation, all leaving GT and Forza on the far end of this fantasy spectrum.

GT sells the most of all car sims by far, so of course garners the most criticism. It's just a lot of different things to a lot of different people. I think there is plenty to criticize, but many of the criticisms are derived from wanting gt to become more like some competing game that you could just as easily go play instead.

Some criticisms I hear about GT are specific, and some are really vague and sweeping.
 
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