oldergamer
Member
If the actual GPU itself cost this $600 to produce or to sell to other manufacturers, these companies would go out of biz fast.
It's not that expensive.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
- Start date
If the actual GPU itself cost this $600 to produce or to sell to other manufacturers, these companies would go out of biz fast.
It's not that expensive.
SneakersSO
Member
What'll be even better is when the games do not look like an accurate representation of the on paper power.
How is higher end hardware at higher price beneficial to Microsoft if people who buy high end systems can buy MS exclusives on their PC? So either not all MS exclusives are going to end up on PC, or high end console at higher price is incredibly redundant.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Wait are you french or is this a common english expression ?
Because maybe there are people who don't want a PC, but are willing to buy a console for $500? And they'll have the Xbox Slim for the low end market. Everything kind of points to Microsoft developing a wide variety of devices, including a low power Chromecast-like stick. Why couldn't they be going after high end users with a pricier high end box?
MilkyJoe
Member
わかりません
Yes, the Xbox division has been taking heat for years from investors due to low ROI vs. the rest of MS.
はい
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Stand alone. 15TF+ with Azure enabled.
Then at that point they should just create prebuilt PC's with a Xbox frontend and logo.
Would make sense with them bringing the Xbox UI to Windows 10. Your PC games would just show up in your library, steam would have it's own store app. I could see it work.
Basically, take all the good stuff about PC gaming and console gaming and combine the two for a comfy couch experience.
They won't because that doesn't lock people into their ecosystem. I don't think we'll ever see Microsoft release an Xbox that let's people run Steam. It would be completely counter to their whole business.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
So you don't know if you're french?
I don't think the market is very big for $500 consoles. Specially once that are going to have their successors released every 2 to 3 years. Unlike phones, consoles are not necessities.
For the record I don't think a console containing 6TF GPU is going to cost $500 either, even if it is releasing in Fall of 2017. Not if MS is trying to make profits. But hey, they probably know something I don't.
MilkyJoe
Member
If I wake up wearing a beret I'll let you know
The console releases in about 18 months.... won´t be 600 $ by then.
But what if you eat baguettes?
Reading a lot of posts in the thread, I can only shake my head.
720p, 1080p, 4K, and others are resolutions. These represent one of two values:
1. The ratio of horizontal to vertical pixels rendered by a game engine
2. The ratio of horizontal to vertical pixels that a game is displayed on your tv or monitor at.
They are not always the same value. When you display a game at a higher resolution than it is rendered at, it is considered to be upscaled. When you render a game at a higher resolution than it is displayed at, it is considered to be downsampled. Upscaling stretches rendered pixels, downsampling compresses them.
Now, resolution is not the only factor of how a game looks. Every engine is different, but typically, graphical settings have different values that can be chosen to either improve image quality or game performance (frames per second). Some of the available settings include, but are not limited to:
Texture quality (the level of detail of in-game assets)
Shadow quality
Lighting quality
Smoke/fog quality
Draw Distance
Anti-aliasing
Reflection Quality
Etc etc etc
The reason I bring this up is because it seems like way too many people here think and are wrongly saying that the only determining factors in image quality and performance of games are resolution and frame rate. This is not correct. IF Scorpio has almost 2 extra TFlops compared to Neo, there will be plenty of settings that can be bumped up besides resolution to make the game and its effects look better, while maintaining the same frame rate and resolution, if not increasing them (well, resolution at least). And these aren't some special add ons - they're already in the game engines, waiting to be adjusted.
720p, 1080p, 4K, and others are resolutions. These represent one of two values:
1. The ratio of horizontal to vertical pixels rendered by a game engine
2. The ratio of horizontal to vertical pixels that a game is displayed on your tv or monitor at.
They are not always the same value. When you display a game at a higher resolution than it is rendered at, it is considered to be upscaled. When you render a game at a higher resolution than it is displayed at, it is considered to be downsampled. Upscaling stretches rendered pixels, downsampling compresses them.
Now, resolution is not the only factor of how a game looks. Every engine is different, but typically, graphical settings have different values that can be chosen to either improve image quality or game performance (frames per second). Some of the available settings include, but are not limited to:
Texture quality (the level of detail of in-game assets)
Shadow quality
Lighting quality
Smoke/fog quality
Draw Distance
Anti-aliasing
Reflection Quality
Etc etc etc
The reason I bring this up is because it seems like way too many people here think and are wrongly saying that the only determining factors in image quality and performance of games are resolution and frame rate. This is not correct. IF Scorpio has almost 2 extra TFlops compared to Neo, there will be plenty of settings that can be bumped up besides resolution to make the game and its effects look better, while maintaining the same frame rate and resolution, if not increasing them (well, resolution at least). And these aren't some special add ons - they're already in the game engines, waiting to be adjusted.
They are barely able to take advantage of current gen for the most part, most devs fro last gen haven't even released non cross gen games yet
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Allright but don't forget your baguette.
I haven't been diligently reading every page but I haven't seen many posts indicating that people think resolution and frame rate are the only factors in graphical quality. I think we all know there are other bells and whistles that can be tweaked. this isn't 2013 anymore.
While I'm not going to bother counting, I highly doubt this is true.
anothertech
Member
Hell yes it would...
And anyone actually believing this might happen is going to be crushed to oblivion.
MS wasn't even going to announce this year let alone release the thing. Sony once again is pushing them to get off their Laurels. I think Scorpio is further away from release than a lot of people realize.
Neo on the other hand has a chance at getting out this fall to coincide with the VR release I imagine.
There may not be. But they still have the Xbox Slim to entice users into their ecosystem. Like, look, you can buy this $200 box, and you can play these games, and they'll look mediocre. But you can play them right now on this $200 box. Then two years down the line, you can buy another box for $200, and suddenly all those games will look like this.
Whether or not this works is anyone's guess. Will the promise of your games looking better when you finally upgrade be enough to entice people to buy the cheap Xbox? Will the price point be attractive enough at the low end for people to not mind "inferior" version of games? Will the Xbox Scorpio price itself out of the market? Will the PS4 Neo steal all the thunder and continue it's dominating run? Or maybe the Xbox Scorpio is so spectacular that people forgo the PS4 Neo in anticipation of better hardware? Who knows? But it'll be fun to watch and see what happens.
anothertech
Member
LMAO
Mixolydian
Member
You're correct, but IMO it's the benchmark that still gets brought up the most in threads about power and the like.
LukasTaves
Member
Things are different now.
Xbox is no longer a separate division within Ms, it's all under the same umbrella. It's a windows 10 device.
And there's another very important metric. The current CEO knows that gaming is one of the primary reason of why Windows got so big. And they also know that gaming is what consumers spent the most time and money on every platform.
That's why we are seeing xbox merging with windows, the point is no longer to sell consoles, but rather drive the insane user base win10 already has and that will only get bigger to consume from their store.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Yeah it seems the Xbox as a console will no longer be viewed as a gaming device that gets treated like the runt of the litter.
I think they'll now view it as a Living Room Windows 10 device. Or effectively a Microsoft HTPC if you will.
Swass
Member
He fucked up the grammar (should be "quelle surprise") so he's not French.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Well I am french and believe me on most of the forums I visit he wouldn't be the only one
Keeping the high end boxes at $400-$500 is the whole point of this exercise.
There will still be the base unit at a lower price.
I don't know how they plan to make money. Consoles are traditionally loss leading and this is close to the business model 3DO was working with.
Leyasu
Banned
Une surprise.... Yep surprise is féminine, thus it is quelle and not quel. Still, being an englishman in France, i know all about that.
dragonyeuw
Member
In all of this discussion my mind went on Nintendo earlier. No way they're entering the tech arms race so I suspect the NX is going to wind up another Wii U, and it won't be competing with the NEO/Scorpio. It will be competing with $199 'entry-level' ps4/xb1 slim models with mature libraries. Its anyone's guess exactly what Nintendo has up their sleeves, but good or bad all the buzz seems to be on these new .5 systems and NX is already beginning to feel like an afterthought. I'm really curious to see how they compete within this shifting paradigm of the console market.
anothertech
Member
NX will be liquid nitrogen powered cartridge based add on to any system with an HDMI pass through. The more power Scorpio or Neo have, the more power NX has!
NX wins by default!
New xbox probably
fixed.
Prevolition
Member
That's because Sony and Microsoft are getting their info leaked. Nintendo's time will come and NX is still a forethought.
3rdamention
Member
* Back before Xbox One launched, in May of 2013, it was stated Xbox One was 4 times more powerful with the Power of the Cloud.
* In August of 2015, it was then stated that the Xbox One was up to 13 times more powerful with the Power of the Cloud.
* So in 2017, with the Scorpio, I am sure it will basically be Skynet when they turn on the Power of the Cloud for it. I expect the Scorpio itself to design and begin manufacturing the Xbox 3.
I trust Brad Sams information and with Kotaku coming out and basically corroborating his story with more info, I'm more inclined to believe most of it is true. I think that if anything we'll just have a Roku-stick like device, and an Xbox Slim announced at E3. At gamescom, they'll talk about Xbox Scorpio and games for 2017. That's my guess.
dragonyeuw
Member
And what do you believe they'll offer to reverse their fortunes coming off wii U? To be clear, I want Nintendo to be successful, as I do all the consoles, but I'm not sure what they're going to do to pull in the masses.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Oh ya, me too. I listen to Brad podcast every week for years now. I don't mean the part about Scorpio being true or not. I meant the ~6 TFLOP information. Brad did not talk about the spec at all, he did not know.
tiredheadcrab
Member
That was Polygon and Kotaku collaborating their information. Kotaku said it will be between 5-6 tereaflop and polygon reported 6.
Crayon
Member
I've brought this up several times when people gaffers start dreaming about a "Steam Machine" Xbox.
When it comes to Steam Machines, the "Machine" is not the important part. It's the "Steam".
Microsoft marketing console-like pcs designed to run Steam would just be doing Valve's work for them.
XBox One Two.