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[johnsmith]

Add this to that. https://youtu.be/KL8BpbWP7_8

Now, can someone point me to Bernie mud-slinging? And to some Hilary support of the African American community/lower class families?

Because, in my head, I have "Super Predators" (A while ago) and her turning away a young, black woman wearing a #BLM sign and asking her tough questions.(Recently)

If you need the videos, I got 'em.

We all saw the videos.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-harlem.html

Then it hit you that Hillary was going to talk — at length — about black people, almost exclusively. She began with the normal rhetoric of just listing black people she knew, whom she spoke with, whom she associated herself with — but then it took a turn. When she began discussing Flint, the white woman Establishment presidential candidate said, “It's a horrifying story, but what makes it even worse is that it's not a coincidence that this was allowed to happen in a largely black, largely poor community. Just ask yourself: Would this have ever occurred in a wealthy white suburb of Detroit? Absolutely not.”

It was that moment of, Oh shit, did Hillary come to play today? I looked down my row, and multiple people had that same goddamn face etched on their faces. She was making points about privilege that minorities always make, but it packed such a different punch — even if President Obama had said it — because she was chastising her own privilege, putting the privilege of whiteness front and center.

Hillary then followed up the Flint statement with the following series of points, all delivered in about two minutes:

"We still need to face the painful reality that African-Americans are nearly three times as likely as whites to be denied a mortgage."
"Something's wrong when the median wealth for black families is just a tiny fraction of the median wealth of white families."
"Something is wrong when African-American men are far more likely to be stopped and searched by police, charged with crimes, and sentenced to longer prison terms than white men convicted of the same offenses."
"Black kids get arrested for petty crimes, but white CEOs get away with fleecing our entire country — there is something wrong."
"Just imagine with me for a minute if white kids were 500 percent more likely to die from asthma than black kids — 500 percent."
Imagine if a white baby in South Carolina were twice as likely to die before her first birthday than an African-American baby.
"Imagine the outcry. Imagine the resources that would flood in."
"Now, these inequities are wrong, but they're also immoral. And it'll be the mission of my presidency to bring them to an end. We have to begin by facing up to the reality of systemic racism."
I genuinely couldn’t believe what I was hearing. The tiptoeing had vanished. She wasn’t trying to win everyone’s vote by flying as close to the middle as possible. And even though the room was markedly black, these thoughts were now on her permanent electoral record for all to see. The use of “imagine” was powerful, because it comes with an almost implied, You can’t imagine it, because that shit wouldn’t fly. She was finally just saying it, bluntly. Hearing this, in February, was so much more powerful than any policy plan. Because before many people want to know your plan — or before people will ever truly consider believing in your plan — they want to know that you understand their world.

Also
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/hillary-clinton-mothers.html

The mothers of Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner and Tamir Rice, and a half-dozen other black women who had lost children in clashes with the police or in gun violence, were flown in from around the country and invited to gather around a table. They were joined by Hillary Clinton, who asked them, one by one, to tell her their stories.

“She took her pad and her ink pen, she wrote her own notes, and she asked us what did we need,” said Maria Hamilton, whose son Dontre was shot 14 times by a white Milwaukee police officer in 2014.

Mrs. Clinton appeared “visibly hurt” as the mothers spoke, said Lucia McBath, whose 17-year-old son, Jordan Davis, was fatally shot after playing loud music in his car in 2012.

The gathering, held without aides or journalists present, stretched into a nearly three-hour dinner over pork chops and gravy, fried okra and rice. After dessert of apple pie, Mrs. Clinton encouraged the women to organize and travel the country with her campaign.

“You are the mothers of the children who are dying in the streets,” Mrs. Clinton told the group, Ms. McBath recalled. “You have a lot of power individually,” she said. “But collectively, you need to come together. The country needs to hear from you.”

Since then, these mothers, many of whom did not know one another before the Clinton campaign flew them to Chicago to convene, have blanketed the primary states, appearing with Mrs. Clinton in churches and barbershops from Ohio to South Carolina. They starred in an ad that aired in Cleveland, Chicago and St. Louis. And the campaign has paid their travel expenses so they could attend the Democratic presidential debates.

And the most powerful quote

“The other candidate on the Democratic side did not reach out to us,” Annette Nance-Holt, whose 16-year-old son, Blair Holt, was shot on a Chicago bus in 2007, said at a campaign event last month. She explained starkly that she was not swayed by Mr. Sanders’s promise of free college “because my child is dead.”

 

[Maxim726X]

"You should be willing to debate anytime, anywhere." - Hillary Clinton

So many weak excuses made for Hillary here.

Well, she has to debate people who actually matter at this point.

Would she debate you on a national stage? You probably have the same odds of becoming POTUS as Sanders does.

She'll debate Trump whenever she must. That's what matters at this point.

 

[D.Lo]

I'm now convinced she canned the debate because her team got a hint of these email findings being relesed. A debate now would be 80% about that, she'd be hammered for repeatedly lying for the last year about it.

Well, she has to debate people who actually matter at this point.

Would she debate you on a national stage? You probably have the same odds of becoming POTUS as Sanders does.

She'll debate Trump whenever she must. That's what matters at this point.

If she asked for something from Drewton (a debate before New Hampshire) and in exchange publicly agreed to debate Drewton in May in California, then absolutely she should debate Drewton on a national stage.

This is someone who really should not be seen going back on their word at this point. That's what matters at this point.

 

[MassiveNights]

Is Bernie going to run as a third candidate?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Instead of getting mad at Bernie, or Trump people should be getting mad at Hillary for allowing the opportunity to be presented. Bernie wants publicity with the debates, Trump wants it as well. Hillary is the only one that seems to not want it, so she must be ok with all of this. I'm sure she calculated the possible outcome and thinks a Trump vs Bernie debate is ok. Trump vs Bernie almost happened before because Hillary wanted to skip a debate iirc, but she ended up going. Why should Bernie or Trumph give up free air time?

 

[Eidan]

Instead of getting mad at Bernie, or Trump people should be getting mad at Hillary for allowing the opportunity to be presented. Bernie wants publicity with the debates, Trump wants it as well. Hillary is the only one that seems to not want it, so she must be ok with all of this. I'm sure she calculated the possible outcome and thinks a Trump vs Bernie debate is ok. Trump vs Bernie almost happened before because Hillary wanted to skip a debate iirc, but she ended up going. Why should Bernie or Trumph give up free air time?

Who gives a shit if Bernie Sanders wants publicity? HE FUCKING LOST. Clinton doesn't owe him anything.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Is Bernie going to run as a third candidate?

No, he has said repeatedly that he would not.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

Who gives a shit if Bernie Sanders wants publicity? HE FUCKING LOST. Clinton doesn't owe him anything.

Clinton doesn't give a shit about California voters, or she should would do the debate

 

[BotoxAgent]

Clinton doesn't give a shit about California voters, or she should would do the debate

No she doesn't give a shit about Bernie. You can cater to California voters and appeal to them without having to give in to demands of every person craving attention.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Is Bernie going to run as a third candidate?

Trump wins if he does.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Who gives a shit if Bernie Sanders wants publicity? HE FUCKING LOST. Clinton doesn't owe him anything.

He does, he can do what he wants, and he will do what people allow him to. If people are willing to give him expensive free airtime why wouldn't he take it, he would be a fool not to actually, and people apparently want to see this debate so networks would gladly fork over cash for Trump ratings (though if they have to give all profits to charity they may not).

I hope that answers your question. And in my post I didn't even suggest Hillary owed anyone anything, that part is odd.

 

[royalan]

I love how Hillary "going back on her word" is now suddenly a problem for Sanders after the last debate almost didn't happen because he challenged Hillary to a debate before New York, tried to fundraise off of it thinking she'd back out, then played stupid when she accepted the invitation to debate and provided him with 4 possible dates, none of which he wanted to accept.

Instead of getting mad at Bernie, or Trump people should be getting mad at Hillary for allowing the opportunity to be presented. Bernie wants publicity with the debates, Trump wants it as well. Hillary is the only one that seems to not want it, so she must be ok with all of this. I'm sure she calculated the possible outcome and thinks a Trump vs Bernie debate is ok. Trump vs Bernie almost happened before because Hillary wanted to skip a debate iirc, but she ended up going. Why should Bernie or Trumph give up free air time?

The Democratic primary is over. And at the last debate Sanders didn't even try to use the publicity positively, and instead spent the entire time attacking Hillary and being on the defensive when she attacked him back. It was messy and non-informative, of course Hillary doesn't want to do it. There's no point in publicity when this contest is thoroughly over and has been for a while. The May debate was always planned under the expectation that this primary contest would still be competitive, not a landslide (which is what a 300 pledged delegate/3 million popular vote lead is at this stage in the race).

Bernie doesn't get to beg for more attention, and Hillary shouldn't have had to anticipate that he would go and do something that has never before happened in the history of our politics to get it.

 

[HylianTom]

I love how Hillary "going back on her word" is now suddenly a problem for Sanders after the last debate almost didn't happen because he challenged Hillary to a debate before New York, tried to fundraise off of it thinking she'd back out, then played stupid when she accepted the invitation to debate and provided him with 4 possible dates, none of which he wanted to accept.



The Democratic primary is over. And at the last debate Sanders didn't even try to use the publicity positively, and instead spent the entire time attacking Hillary and being on the defensive when she attacked him back. It was messy and non-informative, of course Hillary doesn't want to do it. There's no point in publicity when this contest is thoroughly over and has been for a while. The May debate was always planned under the expectation that this primary contest would still be competitive, not a landslide (which is what a 300 pledged delegate/3 million popular vote lead is at this stage in the race).

Bernie doesn't get to beg for more attention, and Hillary shouldn't have had to anticipate that he would go and do something that has never before happened in the history of our politics to get it.

Yeah, I realize how folks may be upset about her breaking her word on this, but I can't get too perturbed about it.

He went back on his own promise a while back regarding running a strictly issues-focused campaign, so she'd be walking into one hell of a potential trap, with Bernie continuing his vague character smears (while repeatedly refusing to substantiate them when asked to) and with Fox's debate moderators - now fully eager to do Trump's bidding - aiming to stoke the flames of discontent within the Democratic Party.

People can at least be honest about this: most of the folks upset about her broken debate promise would quickly find something else to harp-upon. Admit it. It's not like showing-up would do her a world of good, especially since we're talking about a statistically marginal measure of people who'd be upset at this. Her campaign made the calculation that the potential upside for her doing so is dwarfed by the potential downside, so they made what they figure is the correct call.

Now we get to hear the howls of indignation.. from the same folks who've been howling at her for months, if not years.

If the debate happens, I'll be cheering for Bernie to tear Don a new one. And I'll be cheering for some A-grade comedy.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I love how Hillary "going back on her word" is now suddenly a problem for Sanders after the last debate almost didn't happen because he challenged Hillary to a debate before New York, tried to fundraise off of it thinking she'd back out, then played stupid when she accepted the invitation to debate and provided him with 4 possible dates, none of which he wanted to accept.



The Democratic primary is over. And at the last debate Sanders didn't even try to use the publicity positively, and instead spent the entire time attacking Hillary and being on the defensive when she attacked him back. It was messy and non-informative, of course Hillary doesn't want to do it. There's no point in publicity when this contest is thoroughly over and has been for a while. The May debate was always planned under the expectation that this primary contest would still be competitive, not a landslide (which is what a 300 pledged delegate/3 million popular vote lead is at this stage in the race).

Bernie doesn't get to beg for more attention, and Hillary shouldn't have had to anticipate that he would go and do something that has never before happened in the history of our politics to get it.

Look, I understand that it's over (I have just been watching this stuff for entertainment), and I'm sure he gets that, but as you can see he is still up for talking on tv, and people are willing to put him on or talk about him on air. Maybe he just wants to talk about [bernie voice]Millionarrres and billionarress[/bernie voice], if tv people continue to give him air time and he wants it, what can you do? It looks like he wants the ridiculously tall soapbox while he has access to it.

And to be clear, I don't care about any of them, it's just very entertaining. Would I watch Trump vs Bernie? Heck yeah! Would I watch a boxing match of two famous people that hate each other? Most likely!

 

[Vagabundo]

Oh, I'm voting seriously on the rest of the ballot. And in any case, I only have a mild preference for Hilary. They're both pretty uninspiring candidates. Obama in 2008, now that was a candidate.

Obama really worked out in the end, didn't he?

I'm glad I supported him with good thoughts from my own country...

I'm with ya. Hilary and Sanders really are Tweedleum and Tweedledee.

 

[DeadlyVirus]

No she doesn't give a shit about Bernie. You can cater to California voters and appeal to them without having to give in to demands of every person craving attention.

Except he had already agreed to a debate and then backed out...
That's a middle finger to Cali voters...

 

[BotoxAgent]

Obama really worked out in the end, didn't he?

I'm glad I supported him with good thoughts from my own country...

I'm with ya. Hilary and Sanders really are Tweedleum and Tweedledee.

Obama was and will continue to be the real revolution. The Democratic bench is a bit underwhelming for sure, but they should help continue and expand the policies he started.

 

[Maxim726X]

Clinton doesn't give a shit about California voters, or she should would do the debate

No, it's actually because of the California voters that she won't do the debate.

Latest polls have her up by as much as 19 points. What does she have to gain by doing another debate?

Nothing. Nothing is the correct answer.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Except he had already agreed to a debate and then backed out...
That's a middle finger to Cali voters...

I would give more reasons, but the post by HylianTom and royalan are pretty much on point.

 

[Horns]

Bernie isn't a team player. He doesn't compromise. He'd throw Democrats under the bus to further himself in the election while expecting the party to rally around him. He'd be a lame duck from day one, but that's just fantasy at this point. This was my biggest gripe from the beginning with him and it's become more apparent recently.

 

[TI82]

No, it's actually because of the California voters that she won't do the debate.

Latest polls have her up by as much as 19 points. What does she have to gain by doing another debate?

Nothing. Nothing is the correct answer.

She could lose less trust by honoring her actual promises and quotes from 2008?

 

[B-Dubs]

She could lose less trust by honoring her actual promises and quotes from 2008?

Because you're the exact same person you were 8 years ago.

 

[Blader]

This whole thing just makes Bernie look foolish and naive. Trump suggests a debate, Bernie jumps on it immediately, then Trump backs out and now Bernie is standing there with his dick in his hand.

(I hate that expression, but for some reason it feels apt here)

Because the debate was entirely of Trump's agency, it makes Bernie look like he's being played around, which is not a reassuring image when you're running for president! I can see why Bernie would want to do it -- for the obvious publicity before CA votes of course, but also to help clearly delineate the difference between him and Trump and potentially discourage Bernie supporters from jumping to Trump's in November -- but it just seems like an unnecessary and poorly thought our maneuver.

Obama really worked out in the end, didn't he?

I'm glad I supported him with good thoughts from my own country...

I'm with ya. Hilary and Sanders really are Tweedleum and Tweedledee.

In many many ways, yes, he did. And speaking for myself, I know my life the last few years would have been much harder and financially constrained than it actually was if not for two specific Obama policies.

 

[TI82]

Because you're the exact same person you were 8 years ago.

Are you really trying to suggest that she has changed so much that she doesn't think that it is now the most important and toughest job in the world and that she should be campaigning for every vote?

 

[Blader]

She could lose less trust by honoring her actual promises and quotes from 2008?

Do you really think people who were going to vote for Hillary are less likely to now that she won't indulge in one more, now pointless, debate? Do you really think people who already look at Hillary as an untrustworthy candidate are suddenly going to have a much higher opinion of her if she agrees to the debate? She already agreed to and participated in an extra three debates with Bernie beyond what was originally scheduled, I didn't see that push the needle much in her favor among Bernie supporters.

 

[B-Dubs]

Are you really trying to suggest that she has changed so much that she doesn't think that it is now the most important and toughest job in the world and that she should be campaigning for every vote?

Because not doing a single debate means she's not going to go and campaign for their votes.

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Are you really trying to suggest that she has changed so much that she doesn't think that it is now the most important and toughest job in the world and that she should be campaigning for every vote?

Getting elected president is a strategic game as much as anything else. If her goal is to be elected she has to make strategic moves, and at this point, debating sanders in California is a move with no possible upside.

If she loses Cali, she'll still win the nomination. A debate with Sanders, especially after he's showing that he's extremely desperate for a Hail Mary to land, can only hurt her fall chances.

So yes, she doesn't have to campaign for every primary vote. Ask Bernie sanders in the south.

 

[TI82]

Because not doing a single debate means she's not going to go and campaign for their votes.

Yeah, the way she worded it she is going against her own words. But hey man that's the candidate people chose. Wonder if she will make it to the white house or prison first though

 

[Maxim726X]

She could lose less trust by honoring her actual promises and quotes from 2008?

Politician says one thing when it benefits them, says another when it doesn't.

Like when Bernie accepted SuperPAC money (ironically from Hillary) for a senate election, now demonizes it as the agent killing Democracy.

Politicians being politicians.

Yeah, the way she worded it she is going against her own words. But hey man that's the candidate people chose. Wonder if she will make it to the white house or prison first though

Oh, you're one of those people. Now it makes sense.

 

[Irnbru]

We all saw the videos.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-harlem.html



Also
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/hillary-clinton-mothers.html

I'm sad when items of substance are provided, they are either ignored or hand waved away.



And the most powerful quote

“The other candidate on the Democratic side did not reach out to us,” Annette Nance-Holt, whose 16-year-old son, Blair Holt, was shot on a Chicago bus in 2007, said at a campaign event last month. She explained starkly that she was not swayed by Mr. Sanders’s promise of free college “because my child is dead.”

I'm sad when items of substance are provided, they are either ignored or hand waved away.

 

[TI82]

I'm sad when items of substance are provided, they are either ignored or hand waved away.

What's the substance? Because he didn't reach out to these specific mothers he is now tone deaf to minority issues? Please.

 

[Maxim726X]

What's the substance? Because he didn't reach out to these specific mothers he is now tone deaf to minority issues? Please.

The substance is actually quite simple- He believes that economic disparity is the cause of all ills in this country.

Others would argue that there is more to it. Really doesn't get any more simple than that.

 

[Irnbru]

What's the substance? Because he didn't reach out to these specific mothers he is now tone deaf to minority issues? Please.

If you could only the read the bold I guess that's all you'd take away from that. It's what the guy above me just said.

 

[Blader]

I think, given the increased public attention to black citizens killed by white police officers and the range of issues that that's connected to -- from gun control to Black Lives Matter to institutional racism -- then failing to reach out to the families of those victims is actually quite tone deaf.

 

[D.Lo]

The substance is actually quite simple- He believes that economic disparity is the cause of all ills in this country.

Others would argue that there is more to it. Really doesn't get any more simple than that.

Simple in your mind if you have ignored many things he has said and done very publicly.

He believes it's one of the biggest problems, not the only one.

He has repeatedly and consistently condemned the mandatory sentencing laws and other things that have led to disproportionate African American numbers in prisons.

The media and Hillay supporters were all over him for 'racism' when he stated in a debate that white Americans don’t know what it’s like to live like African Americans in U.S. ghettos. Irrespective of language choice, that's an explicit statement that black communities are particularly marginalised.

He isn't as popular as Hillary with African American democrats, but to say he believes economic disparity is the only issue is just a flat out lie.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I've been a little out of the loop lately. Is there something in particular that made people turn on Bernie? I've been seeing it more and more lately. Or is it just something that built over time?

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I've been a little out of the loop lately. Is there something in particular that made people turn on Bernie? I've been seeing it more and more lately. Or is it just something that built over time?

Built over time, but I think the tipping point was only recently.

 

[Blader]

I've been a little out of the loop lately. Is there something in particular that made people turn on Bernie? I've been seeing it more and more lately. Or is it just something that built over time?

Built up over the last month or so for sure, but I think the threats and harassment coming out of the Nevada convention from some Bernie supporters, coupled with Bernie's weak condemnation of it (with the vast majority of his statement focused on party procedures instead), was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The media and Hillay supporters were all over him for 'racism' when he stated in a debate that white Americans don’t know what it’s like to live like African Americans in U.S. ghettos. Irrespective of language choice, that's an explicit statement that black communities are particularly marginalised.

I mean that was the only time he was particularly tone deaf for AAs, right?

Or you know when he called voters in S. Carolina not "smart enough to vote for him." How he failed to reign in his supporters after being confronted by BLM. Instead of community outreach he wheeled out Killer Mike the great speaker of black issues to talk to his people. Kept making his point of MLK marching with him expecting unconditional support.


At best he is tone deaf to the AA community.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Built up over the last month or so for sure, but I think the threats and harassment coming out of the Nevada convention from some Bernie supporters, coupled with Bernie's weak condemnation of it (with the vast majority of his statement focused on party procedures instead), was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people.

With the vast majority focused on accusing the person getting death threats of being a corrupt fraud who was supressing Sanders vote and stole the Caucus from him.

It was revolting.

 

[Galactic Barret]

We all saw the videos.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-harlem.html



Also
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/politics/hillary-clinton-mothers.html



And the most powerful quote

“The other candidate on the Democratic side did not reach out to us,” Annette Nance-Holt, whose 16-year-old son, Blair Holt, was shot on a Chicago bus in 2007, said at a campaign event last month. She explained starkly that she was not swayed by Mr. Sanders’s promise of free college “because my child is dead.”

Thank you for that, good sir. I had not seen this before, and I appreciate you pointing me toward. While I still cannot fully trust Hilary, that really doesn't matter much as she is going to be the nominee anyway. However, this does show that she at the very least recognizes the problems facing African American citizens. Whether that translates into her policy, I don't know, but its a start.

Thanks.

I'm sad when items of substance are provided, they are either ignored or hand waved away.

Sorry, I was asleep. When someone posts up hard facts, you can't ignore them, whether they fit your viewpoint or not. I'm not here with my fingers in my ear, spinning a narrative that just sounds good to me. I want truth, I want to know whats real, even if it goes against my sensibilities. What I DONT want is more of the status quo, which has been the only thing provided to me, with the exception of john's quote.

 

[D.Lo]

At best he is tone deaf to the AA community.

He definitely hasn't done well.

But the poster I was replying to implied he had done nothing or never acknowledged any racial prejudice issues, by saying "he believes that economic disparity is the cause of all ills in this country." Which is demonstrably false.

I've been a little out of the loop lately. Is there something in particular that made people turn on Bernie? I've been seeing it more and more lately. Or is it just something that built over time?

It's the new media narrative, since Republicans stuff is done and Trump is waiting around for the main event, and nothing has really changed for Dems. Hillary has an almost insurmountable lead, but neither candidate can get enough pledged delegates before the convention, so there is still campaigning but it's largely stasis until California and then the convention. Media probably wants a concession from Sanders so Trump/Hillary fires up early and they get all their juicy stuff to report.

A big one was that the media reported violence at a Nevada convention where Sanders supporters felt hard done by on verbal votes There was no violence, reports of 'thrown chairs' were made up. Clinton supporter Barbara Boxer claimed she feared for her life when in reality video evidence shows she verbally trolled sanders supporters from the stage and blew kisses to their jeers as she left calmly and safely. Despite this there are still dozens of articles on major news sites with the claims of violence stated as fact, unamended).

Afterward the convention chair and others got a bunch of complaints, including some nasty anonymous threats. Which is pretty shit.

Sanders replied by condemning any violence or threats but also complained that the convention did have issues. it wasn't enough for some, who had used the (false) claims of violence as evidence that Sanders supporters had devolved to become the same as Trump supporters, and he must concede immediately to avoid more violence in the future. The DNC chair inflamed the situation by continued reporting what have been proven lies about violence and thrown chairs, directly comparing the claims of violence to the trump rally actual violence.

Now Sanders is stuck in an unfortunate spiral of talking about DNC rigging the contest, and pro-Clinton people are basically just demanding concession asap.

 

[flkraven]

Saw this on reddit. Thought it was pretty funny.

 

[Tigress]

Ugh... I might have to admit my mom might be right (she has hated Sanders for a while and is a pro Hillary person. She keeps telling me she knows insiders who said he doesn't get along with people and is belligerent and just isn't good at being a politician).

I don't want to do that again (She also predicted how bad Bush Jr. was going to be before he was elected the first time. I didn't vote for him or want him in but I thought she was being hyerbolic about how horrible he would be if he was elected. I really should learn to listen to her more. I just really liked Bernie and what I saw *sigh*).

 

[Blader]

He definitely hasn't done well.

But the poster I was replying to implied he had done nothing or never acknowledged any racial prejudice issues, by saying "he believes that economic disparity is the cause of all ills in this country." Which is demonstrably false.

It's the new media narrative, since Republicans stuff is done and Trump is waiting around for the main event, and nothing has really changed for Dems. Hillary has an almost insurmountable lead, but neither candidate can get enough pledged delegates before the convention, so there is still campaigning but it's largely stasis until California and then the convention. Media probably wants a concession from Sanders so Trump/Hillary fires up early and they get all their juicy stuff to report.

A big one was that the media reported violence at a Nevada convention where Sanders supporters felt hard done by on verbal votes There was no violence, reports of 'thrown chairs' were made up. Clinton supporter Barbara Boxer claimed she feared for her life when in reality video evidence shows she verbally trolled sanders supporters from the stage and blew kisses to their jeers as she left calmly and safely. Despite this there are still dozens of articles on major news sites with the claims of violence stated as fact, unamended).

Afterward the convention chair and others got a bunch of complaints, including some nasty anonymous threats. Which is pretty shit.

Sanders replied by condemning any violence or threats but also complained that the convention did have issues. it wasn't enough for some, who had used the (false) claims of violence as evidence that Sanders supporters had devolved to become the same as Trump supporters, and he must concede immediately to avoid more violence in the future. The DNC chair inflamed the situation by continued reporting what have been proven lies about violence and thrown chairs, directly comparing the claims of violence to the trump rally actual violence.

Now Sanders is stuck in an unfortunate spiral of talking about DNC rigging the contest, and pro-Clinton people are basically just demanding concession asap.

It's funny how the actual legitimate death threats and harassment aimed at Roberta Lange, her family, and her business is buried in a single sentence here. Did you write Bernie's press release?

Ugh... I might have to admit my mom might be right (she has hated Sanders for a while and is a pro Hillary person. She keeps telling me she knows insiders who said he doesn't get along with people and is belligerent and just isn't good at being a politician).

I don't know about belligerent, but he's known to be a temperamental guy, both in his office and with other senators .

 

[The Technomancer]

Where is Bernie offering simplistic solutions? To which 'complex problems'? That's just another often used frame to keep voting for the establishment. Either you are purposefully spreading that frame or have been learned to think that way. I know the drill, they use the same tactics everywhere.

We establishment people may be corrupt etc but incremental changes are needed, don't vote for the outsider because they are inexperienced/populist and offer simple solutions to 'complex problems'.

Where is he not?

 

[ApharmdX]

I've been a little out of the loop lately. Is there something in particular that made people turn on Bernie? I've been seeing it more and more lately. Or is it just something that built over time?

The Democratic primary started off civilly enough, but when Bernie began to win some states (not enough!), he shifted from being a one issue candidate into someone who felt like he had a very good chance of bending the rules for a win. For the last few months his attacks have been more pointed, and some of his supporters have behaved badly, with harassment and threats. Since he has refused to drop out (he still has money), Hillary Clinton hasn't been able to start her general election campaign, and it's made her supporters mad with rage online.

As an aside, once the convention is over you'll see the party come together, I think. Sanders supporters might not like her now but, running against Trump, she will seem far more palatable.

 

[NihonTiger90]

A new challenger appears

Spoiler

You didn't think this could potentially get crazier, did you?

 

[hawk2025]

A new challenger appears

Spoiler

You didn't think this could potentially get crazier, did you?

"Guys, I'm anti-establishment too! Invite me! See, here's a fist emoji!"

 

[RPGCrazied]

A new challenger appears

Spoiler

You didn't think this could potentially get crazier, did you?

I have no idea who she even is. Why bother?

And Trump wants 15 million for charity, lol. TYT said they would donate 1 million.

Hope this doesn't happen.